Sounds a bit more like ALPS Simplified (Fukkas?) but ya never know. He jammed them pretty hard.
I can't imagine how much these would cost, since Razer's rubber dome/membrane keyboards are all $100.
Razer BlackWidow (http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.211325600)
I was a bit "eh" on if it was blues or not. Too low pitched. I was thinking XMs maybe.
With its optimized actuation force of 50g and an actuation point halfway down the full travel distance of 4mm, the Razer BlackWidow's keys deliver crisp response with exceptional actuation speed [...]
They bother to go mechanical and still skip the NKRO? "Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting" If it was NKRO, there'd be zero ghosting, not minimized ghosting.
50g actuation force, doesn't sound like cherry blacks, either . . Now, I'm curious what kind of switches it has. Ok, MuchAdo is right, sounds like blues.
That press release definitely counting on people not being experts on mechanicals:
"Coupled with a unique key actuation point halfway through the full travel distance, the optimized mechanical key structure found in each of the Razer BlackWidow's keys provide for greater precision and accuracy versus other traditional mechanical keyboards. "
Oh yea, that convinces me their cherry blues or cherry blue copies are faster and more accurate, mmmhmm. [/sarcasm]
Although, maybe they actually modded cherry blues that allow hover?
How convenient that their mechanical keyboard has pre-dated the mainstream demand for mechanical gaming keyboards, but no one has ever heard of it...
Huh? This product is brand new...how is it you can expect people to have heard of it?
The point I was making is that I seriously doubt that it was developed in secret over the space of four years. More like they saw that mech keyboards were becoming popular a few months ago, and requested that a Taiwanese OEM churn out a few with their logo on it =P
Could also be a custom Cherry.
Could also be a custom Cherry. Maybe a brown or clear variant?
Browns are 55g, though, and blues are 60g.
It's just another generic Cherry keyboard, and a pretty hideous looking one at that.If that's true, then should I ever change my mind about clicky and full sized, I'd still get the Xarmor, first.
I'm pretty sure that it's been established elsewhere that iOne is the OEM.
First page when you google "Cherry MX Specifications" (http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm) They show specs for Blacks, Blues and Clears.
On an unrelated note, I was confused by your location, given that I thought Newark was in New Jersey. Wiki'ing Newark reveals that there's practically one in every state...
After the ABS M1 blowout OCN is now FILLED with Mechanical Keyboard posts. It was a gateway drug.
I'm so bitter about that keyboard's situation. So what if it was not NKRO? The complainers KILLED this excellent product on tests they would never encounter in real life playing games. As a result, a great, silent, heavy, space-saving, and very well-put-together ALPS-clone keyboard particularly good for typists is now out of production forever. I'm glad I bought two.
Ah, I was wondering what happened with the ABS M1. It says not available on Newegg, but the official site doesn't make any real mention of its unavailability. I quite like mine, it was an amazing leap forward from a board with scissor switches, but I much prefer the not-much-pricier Customizer/SpaceSaver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlWYLJIibxE&feature=search
Watching this now, perhaps it will provide some insight.
dude's camera work made me sea-sick.
is it too much to ask these reviewers to just stop talking and press a few keys down at different speeds? Christs sake.
Tell me about it. I've seen worse "reviews" though, such as one obnoxious person who could hardly speak English going on about how "clicky" his keyboard was, and nothing more than that; then bashing commenters who complained by calling them poor for not being able to afford one (Steelseries 7G).
lol, how come these guys get review models and no one from GH ever manages to land one.
Really! I'm actually new here, but you'd think Razer would give their MECHANICAL keyboard to someone who has actually had one before. Then again, if they give it to a normal rubber dome user, there's definitely an improvement regardless of preference. If they give it to one of us, we could complain about the feel compared to various other switches. It's a hype scheme. D:
Its blue, though with 50g actuation force, check this out (http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.211651300/categoryId.49136200/parentCategoryId.35156900)
I could have been there at the GamesCom in Cologne :'(
I'm so bitter about that keyboard's situation. So what if it was not NKRO? The complainers KILLED this excellent product on tests they would never encounter in real life playing games. As a result, a great, silent, heavy, space-saving, and very well-put-together ALPS-clone keyboard particularly good for typists is now out of production forever. I'm glad I bought two.
the video sounds like some kind of alps to me. There's a "hissing" on the downstroke that reminds me more of alps than cherries.
also in the video anyway it doesnt sound like there's a click leaf, the main noise seems to be from bottoming-out clack.
Razer's marketing department is blasting everyone with the bull**** hose
The rest of the comments are pretty funny, too.
If you mash down on Blue Cherries hard, and then record it with a crappy camera, I'd say you'd probably get a sound like that =P
thats true.
If its straight blues tho I wonder how they can get away with claiiming they've been 'designing the switch for 5 years' (or something like that).
Every time I see one of their press releases, it's a little different. First, it was a custom switch with 2mm travel, now it's 2mm actuation with 4mm travel. First, it was the only mechanical gaming keyboard ever made, now it's the only mechanical gaming keyboard built from the ground up with light switches. Who knows? It doesn't really matter anyway. It's going to come out, and it's either going to suck or it won't. In either case, we'll just have to wait and see.
Welly does that to people. Actually I was going to post that the video was made by a drunken sailor on the high seas as well.
"@manjyoumethunder I would do until a good friend of mine linked me to your webpage consisting of nothing but thick rimmed anorexics throbbing at my lack of ground work undertaken previous to this review. Kind of questions your faith in humanity when an individual is insulted for not spending his living days examining the inner workings of a computer keyboard.
get a grip."
I asked the guy from the earlier posted YouTube review to pull a keycap, but he saw this thread and got mad that we didn't enjoy the review, and pretty much told me to piss off. Reviewers are quite the pleasant bunch.
In his defense, this thread basically went "Hey, you have Parkinsons and can't hold a camera, you suck. Can you do us a favor?"
Not Recommended
The standard IBM matrix means that standard WASD gaming works perfectly fine. The problem is that the light switches might make it easier to accidentally press a key if your finger wanders or lands in between two keys.
Recommended
It accepts all combinations of keys used during gaming (like Q+W+D+Shift+Spacebar), and the stiffer springs make it unlikely to accidentally press the wrong keys by accident. But it lacks true n-key rollover and it's noise might make a game unenjoyable without headphones - it's the loudest keyboard in this lineup. However, the 'terminal' models have 12 keys on the left side that send "Shift + F1 to F12" scancodes to the PC, and can be used as macro keys using the program Autohotkey.
Theory is fine but plenty of people game fine with Cherry Blues.
Plus recommending this keyboard or not when you're not sure what switch it is seems silly.
Somebody just needs to get their hands on one or not insult someone that does.
$80 for a Blue Cherry board is good, but I personally would save up a bit more and get the less hideous Rosewill keyboard.
But isn't that Adesso keyboard cheaper anyway?
Blues can work for gaming though the action is noticeably delayed if your used to other switches like brown or linear. But they work, the biggest problem is the noise is unnerving for gaming in a need quiet to listen to enemies around or music. For typing it's fine and enjoyable but that individualistic click, click, click does become annoying with the irregularity of key actions during gaming.
But I think the blues have that "Fun Factor". Although it does make it like "Oh mechanical = old = noisy, double-edged saying". I still think people would prefer it as a first buy or as well let's see if it really is THAT different from a run of the mill membrane dome. So in a way the blues do put out an impression of difference.
But then that just raises a question if razer is selling the blues to build up interest. And later sell other switches and maybe go so far as to say these are superior to blues and this and that and basically resell the same boards with different switches to the same who bought the blues thinking this new switch makes them better.
Not saying it won't, blues can be annoying but seems very, VERY strange they would choose the blues. If they spent THAT many years researching then they obviously weren't looking too well into it.
Edit: It could also be that maybe razer is trying to get into a mass market sell i.e. try and reach media users and business as silly as it sounds. Because they did add a lot of macro features from reading on the keyboard. So maybe they are on an underlying "gaming", they are also marketing to other markets to expand sales with the blues. Or for those who want a flashy looking keyboard despite not gaming or anything.
Our friend the Vlog reviewer on Youtube. Vlog2 - appears supremely qualified to do these....
There's no way in hell they actually designed a "custom switch". They're a light up keyboard company, not a keyswitch manufacturer.
I hope this will be a sucessfull quality product which paves the way for more mechanical gaming keyboards but the BlackWidow isn't really an option for me because it's not compact enough, that's why I moved from a 7G to a Filco tenkeyless.
True but theoretically they could have "ordered" a modified or custom key from Cherry or whomever.
Such things have been done before in the mouse department allthough that's not totally comparable.
The question is what that would cost them, if Cherry is even willing to such a thing, and can they compensate it with the expected sales.
It would also be in Cherrys interest to push mechanical keyboards in the (worldwide) mainstream sector and besides Logitech, and maybe MS, Razer is probably the only company which could achieve that.
Not that I really believe it. :D
I hope this will be a sucessfull quality product which paves the way for more mechanical gaming keyboards but the BlackWidow isn't really an option for me because it's not compact enough, that's why I moved from a 7G to a Filco tenkeyless.
Problem I see is that the BlackWidow at that price has to compete with backlit keyboards (everyone wants that) with at least es much features and many people will ask themself why should they buy the Ultimate when they can get a keyboard with more extra macro keys, more lighting options and even a LCD for a lower price.
PS: Dunno if has been said somewhere befor but in their Blog (http://cult.razerzone.com/2010/08/18/the-razer-blackwidow-mechanical-keyboard-feel-the-difference/) they rate it at 50 milion key strokes.
hmm @ that exousia name... >_>
razer mech nftmfw?
webwit
10 minutes ago
Uhm yeah, ione OEM, Cherry MX Blue (bad for gaming) in a jacket of Chinese plastic kitsch design (Steve Jobs is turning in his grave, oh wait he isn't dead yet), and a sci-fi font which makes me remember the worst part of the eighties (such as Blake's 7) to match.
What's not to like?
If you like Das Keyboard, this may be for you. I'm just wondering if it would burn well.
I see the notorious webwit has found his way to youtube:
Does that mean he still lurks here?
dude there the best! :D
Still not sure why you guys are so sure it's a Cherry Blue MX switch.
They must have a baaaaad graphic artist then.
Still not sure why you guys are so sure it's a Cherry Blue MX switch.
They must have a baaaaad graphic artist then.Show Image(http://blog.gaingame.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Razer-BlackWidow-Mechanical-Keyboard-Unveiled-3.png)
Even Reddit now is spreading that rumor based on our speculation. I mean, after all, we're not OCN here. Yet.
Who's something?
Citation please.
BTW I notice you are trolling the Vlog dude pretty hard there.
Preorder open. Who's first?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pugu7G-ZOvU
A challenger approaches.
It does show nothing, but still a better review then the previous one.
100%?
Well, once again let me point out that Occam's Razor may not apply here.
Notice how Razer is spelled differently.
(hey Laggy, SOURCE of info??)
It might not be the Blues. My first reaction was Fukkas. It might BE the Blues.
Actually I believe they are talking about needing to bottom out Rubber Domes. Frankly, most people outside Geekhack have NO CLUE what any of this is abouit so educating the press corps can't hurt.
It's just these Vloggers with drug addled brains that will never get it.
The key actuation force has been optimized by the Razer design team from readily available components but sorted with the rigorous quality standards that Razer is known for
Comments have been disabled for TomNewmanVlog's video.
I blame WebWit.
Gawd, I hope these keys aren't rubberized like the Xarmor or ...
Razer Lycossa.
I sent a message. most press releases I have read make mention of "Cherry MX" and "50 million".
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Users gain increased comfort by using the product at their PC. Nowadays workstations are littered with items ranging from keyboard to table-top reader along with a mouse, telephone and much more. Two become one. There is now also a keyboard available with integral mousepad, gaining even more desk space.
The advantages are obvious. The desk surface is clearer thanks to the versatility of the keyboard. Users require only their personal LEGIC credential card to start up their workstation without the need to enter a password.
This version reduces cable tangles to a minimum, and also helps to save money because the need to purchase additional devices is reduced.
Depending on the software solution deployed, there are numerous versions of the LEGIC keyboard. One version is used in hospitals to prevent unauthorised persons from viewing patient records, by means of a personal key, and another is used at universities to set up personal user accounts at individual workstations.
Moreover, with the correct software it is possible to connect the reader with a cash function, so that the current status of the asset can be viewed at any time.
Overall: The LEGIC keyboard is a device that replaces a separate reader and the mouse, and it also creates more desk space. In addition, all LEGIC keyboards are ergonomically designed and contain the standard user functions.
Technical information:
- Cherry MX Gold Cross Point Technology (individual mechanical keys)
- each key has a service life greater than 50 million keystrokes
- non-fatiguing working due to pleasant touch
- contrasting and abrasion resistant key lettering
- LEGIC advant SC2560-C inside
- LEGIC direct access / EVIS 3rd party communications protocol
- reads unsegmented and segmented LEGIC prime data media
- reads data media based on ISO 15693 and ISO 14443 A
- configurable by means of card and via serial interface
- polling and Messaging Mode
- special keyboard layouts available, even for small quantities.
GIGABYTE Introduces Worldwide 1st Mechanical Gaming Keyboard with GHOST™ EngineGK-K8000
The perfect combination of pretty good tactile and powerful gaming macro editing for gamer insight
2008/03/19 Bookmark and Share
Taipei, Taiwan, March 19, 2008 – GIGABYTE, a leading manufacturer of motherboards and graphics cards, announces the availability of its all-new product line of Peripherals – GHOST™ Gaming Series. In response to gamers’ whispers for ultimate gaming rigs, GIGABYTE unveils Worldwide 1st Mechanical Gaming Keyboard – GK-K8000.
The GIGABYTE GK-K8000 is especially designed by engineers and designers who love RTS and FPS games, setting new industry standard for gaming keyboard. Thousands of gamers have been studied; for example, their play style and practical functions their keyboard provided. Thousand hours of study have culminated in the GIGABYTE’s mechanical keyboard, GK-K8000. To pursue the best quality gaming gear, GIGABYTE boasts its mechanical tactile system, featuring no-click Cherry MX-linear Series key switches to guarantee a life cycle of up to 60 million keystrokes. In addition to the hardware design, we also provide the best gaming software, GIGABYTE GHOST™ Engine, to remember macro and also include several pre-set gaming profiles for FPS, RTS, and RPG games.
GK-K8000 Features & Benefits:
# Worldwide 1st Mechanical Gaming Keyboard
# Supports up to 103 customizable profiles (13 onboard) with macro editing
# Professional GHOST™ software suite included
# USB audio in/out for quality sound
# Self-standing Mechanism Design wrist rest (patent pending)
Macro Editing
With GHOST™ Engine integrating capability, your GK-K8000 will remember up to 13 Onboard Macro settings without the need to install software drivers on each computer. There are a total of 100 customizable Profiles available. Especially, GIGABYTE GK-K8000 boasts Super-switch mode for profile switching while gamers need real-time switch in game. For Super 1 – 3 and Profile 1-10, all settings will be saved on any of these profiles you have currently selected and be available on another computer even without the driver installation. For Profile 11 – 100, settings are available only upon driver installation and will be accessible only on the local PC.
Switching Profiles
GIGABYTE GK-K8000 allows gamers to switch between the Profiles in 3 ways:
1.Super-switch: By pressing Profiles button, one stroke means Super 1; second stroke indicate Super 2. If you press 3 times contiguously, macro settings may be assigned to Super 3.
2.Quick-switch: For example, to select Profile 4, hold on ‘Profile’ while all profile status LEDs keep flashing and press ‘G4’ before it stops flashing.
3.Software-switch: By selecting a Profile in GHOST™ gaming utility.
GHOST™ Engine Technology
GIGABYTE GHOST™ Engine Technology is the best combination pack of software and hardware. The GK-K8000 is based on USB 2.0 architecture, supporting data rates up to 480Mbps to offer hi-speed connection. And it features onboard memory 512Kb for pre-setting macro editing profiles that different games can be stored on your GK-K8000. Also, with GHOST™ Engine Software, GIGABYTE GK-K8000 provides a wide range of user-friendly approaches for macro key assignment, profile selection menu and individual button assignment.
USB Digital Audio
Featuring C-Media 6300 (Vista certified) single chip for USB stereo audio, GK-K8000 delivers quality sound for microphone in & earphone out. This USB digital audio solution embedded 2ch output with DRC support. The Dynamic Range Control function can support high efficiency volume output to get loudness sound effect similar D class amplifier capability.
Self-standing Mechanism Design for Wrist Rest
GIGABYTE GK-K8000 offers revolutionary self-standing mechanism design for wrist rest. The proprietary patent of GK-K8000 not only encourages a relaxed position for long typing and gaming sessions, but also provides convenience to storage if you just need simple media control function. By the way, it’s detachable to remove.
I wonder why Bullveyr hasn't found out the switch type yet, despite his japanese and chinese skills. : P yeah guess they don't know better.
The normal BlackWidow looks rather bland for a Razer product. The images on their website really are flattering compared to the above comparison photo of the 7G.
Do keycaps from other boards with Cherry switches generally fit each other? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I've not any experience with them. If so, I might buy the purple WASD keys for the Majestouch off elitekeyboards and stick them on to make it a bit more interesting, or try to find some white keycaps and dye them.
This is great news, so Razer use Cherry MX Blue switchers. But we have another quests, what about N-Key Rollover, i was see at this photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/Glampyre/PC/Razer/BW7G/Cables.jpg) BW use usb connector and dont have PS/2 adapter. So now I can understand why Razer write this - Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting (http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.211651300/categoryId.35156900). KBoard have 104+5 buttons, if use PS/2 adapter can have Full-NKRO? And I have interest about localize version, BW have big lеtters, how they want to find place for foreign letters on keycaps, and how they can illuminated?
Why do u think so?
Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting
Anti-ghosting
Conventional keyboards are designed to process up a limited number of simultaneous keypresses, and key ghosting typically occurs for certain combinations of 3 keys. When these three keys are pressed simultaneously, this will result either in the third key being ignored or having 'phantom' fourth keypress being erroneously registered by the keyboard.
Anti-ghosting features prevent this from happening on gaming keyboards. Keyboards can have full, selective anti-ghosting or an optimized gaming matrix to minimize this effect. Keyboards with full anti-ghosting can recognize any number of simultaneous keystrokes and usually require a native PS/2 connection. Selective anti-ghosting on keyboards prevent ghosting on the key regions commonly used in gaming, including the WASD key cluster.
A gaming optimized key matrix eliminates ghosting from the keyboard regardless of location of the keys. While selective anti-ghosting only removes the phenomenon of ghosting from certain 'hotspots', the optimized key matrix is more versatile as it is not restricted to one portion of the keyboard. Thus, the keyboard can accommodate vastly more gaming key-combinations, and therefore would be suitable for virtually all playing styles and game genres.
Anti-ghosting
Conventional keyboards are designed to process up a limited number of simultaneous keypresses, and key ghosting typically occurs for certain combinations of 3 keys. When these three keys are pressed simultaneously, this will result either in the third key being ignored or having 'phantom' fourth keypress being erroneously registered by the keyboard.
Anti-ghosting features prevent this from happening on gaming keyboards. Keyboards can have full, selective anti-ghosting or an optimized gaming matrix to minimize this effect. Keyboards with full anti-ghosting can recognize any number of simultaneous keystrokes and usually require a native PS/2 connection. Selective anti-ghosting on keyboards prevent ghosting on the key regions commonly used in gaming, including the WASD key cluster.
A gaming optimized key matrix eliminates ghosting from the keyboard regardless of location of the keys. While selective anti-ghosting only removes the phenomenon of ghosting from certain 'hotspots', the optimized key matrix is more versatile as it is not restricted to one portion of the keyboard. Thus, the keyboard can accommodate vastly more gaming key-combinations, and therefore would be suitable for virtually all playing styles and game genres.
It might not be the Blues. My first reaction was Fukkas. It might BE the Blues.
Actually I believe they are talking about needing to bottom out Rubber Domes. Frankly, most people outside Geekhack have NO CLUE what any of this is abouit so educating the press corps can't hurt.
It's just these Vloggers with drug addled brains that will never get it.
oh by the lords of kobol. what did Razer lie about?
THE WORLD’S FIRST MECHANICAL KEYBOARD DESIGNED FOR GAMING
The Razer BlackWidow features a uniquely tactile mechanical key architecture that provides each key on the keyboard with a crisp response and tactile feedback similar to a mouse click. Coupled with a unique key actuation point halfway through the full travel distance, the optimized mechanical key structure found in each of the Razer BlackWidow’s keys provide for greater precision and accuracy versus other traditional mechanical keyboards.
The key actuation force has been optimized by the Razer design team from readily available components ...
The actuation force comparison would only be true if you ignore all the other MX blue keyboards and you still need 60g of force with blues.
Which switch has an actuation force of 80g?
Which switch needs full travel to actuate?
No, it wouldn't, because Razer quite clearly writes "mechanical gaming keyboard" in all of its comparisons and charts. Unless you know of some other gaming keyboards that use Cherry MX Blues, I'm pretty sure they're technically fine. Decks use Clears and Blacks. ABS M1 uses Fukkas. Steelseries uses Blacks.
And all of the sources I'm reading say Blues require 50g, so I'm not sure where you're getting 60g.
Actuation versus Tactile point. Different specs (see the Cherry Switch Wiki). Although if you use the RipOmeter it reads closer to the Actuation number. And it sure doesn't FEEL like 60g.
XArmor U9BL...
Also blacks bottom out at 80g so that's probably what they're referring to, taking a jab at Steelseries and Deck.
Why do you need a job? You live in Finland.
instantkamera
21 hours ago
Comment removed
@instantkamera Jealously seeping out of your acne paws?
I think razer are more forwarded to marketing their products with individuals of certain favourable linked talents as opposed to some rodent with a vast knowledge of why a button, is a button.
The masses don't care how the key clicks and quite frankly, neither do I.
My review on razer's new gaming keyboard, the Black Widow.
This keyboard separates itself from the rest by using mechanical engineering within each individual key. This pushes both its value and functionality!
This keyboard separates itself from the rest by nothing at all, as it is exactly like all the other POS gaming keyboards, or possibly slightly worse. Razor DID use a different mechanism for key actuation, but nobody in their right mind gives a flying **** about that, so the only thing that makes this keyboard worth the price is that is has the word "ULTIMATE" in it's name. Buy it now, because it ROCKS based on that reason alone.
change careers become a NHL goalie you can't be any worse than Toskala.
Now that lmnop is back.....
R.I.P. Deck.Show Image(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4913347360_d8aa358e76_z.jpg)
If TG3 (owner of Deck) was a public company I'd be shorting their stock.
No, it wouldn't, because Razer quite clearly writes "mechanical gaming keyboard" in all of its comparisons and charts. Unless you know of some other gaming keyboards that use Cherry MX Blues, I'm pretty sure they're technically fine. Decks use Clears and Blacks. ABS M1 uses Fukkas. Steelseries uses Blacks.And to my knowledge non of those have a actuation force of 80g and/or full travel.
The Razer BlackWidow's uniquely tactile mechanical key architecture with an actuation point halfway through the full distance of 4mm, combined with its distinct tactile feedback with the precision of a mouse click, allows the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate to provide gamers a keyboard that respons like no other.
And to my knowledge non of those have a actuation force of 80g and/or full travel.
meh
Lots of hate being expelled on some gob****e on Youtube. Let's get back to the topic at hand - how this is another boring generic Cherry keyboard...
Dude, you just like to rant.
lol. That's why you'll fit right into Geekhack!
I still don't see how Deck Keyboards were sustainable to sell in the first place. The font is ugly as sin, there are cheaper options with MX Blacks and the backlighting is nothing more than a "Wow" feature.
Screw the BlackWidow "Ultimate" as well.
Someone give a try and post a review here please :P
Seriously, I don't like the way the Fn-keys are placed. And the macro keys just make the keyboard super wide :'(
My kid told a Ukranian(or whatever) taxi driver "Do svidaniya!" and boy did he get pissed. "I'm NOT Russian!!!".
I just might end up selling my lycosa and get the regular edition of BW. Do we know if the regular edition and the ultimate edition are any different other then the backlights and USB/Audio ports?
Just the backlight, weight and ports - not a significant difference, unless you're actually going to use those features.
The USB ports/audio jacks is really useful to be quite honest, though its something I can live without. All in all though, I dont really need any of those
I just might end up selling my lycosa and get the regular edition of BW. Do we know if the regular edition and the ultimate edition are any different other then the backlights and USB/Audio ports?
Ah. Much ado about MX Blues.
This needs a side-by-side comparison to a non-defective Adesso, if you can find one that is.
Show Image(http://i36.tinypic.com/2qwlovl.jpg)
some of the keycaps are crooked like the Adesso I am guessing they are wobbly too. look at the J, P keys. according to the Guinness Book of World Records the Brazilian Wandering Spider is the world's deadliest spider I hope Razer chooses a new OEM for the Razer Wandering ;)
Funny, that's just about the only positive attribute I can see them having.
The keyboard is the point around which the rest of your desk is arranged. Go big or go home.
The cutout in front of the box to try keys is a good idea.
Just make sure you know where that previous customer's finger has been before buying it (tip: get the box in back).
If they did have NMB switches that would be pretty kickass. Better than Another God Damn Cherry Keyboard (Agdack, new acronym!).
Wait until you try the other switches before dissing the Cherry MX's.
Dear God, I hope not...
Remember this picture that Razer uses to show the difference in their "ULTRA OPTIMIZED SWITCH" versus the lowly Logitech/Microsoft rubber dome?Show Image(http://blog.gaingame.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Razer-BlackWidow-Mechanical-Keyboard-Unveiled-3.png)
It's a NMB switch (affectionately called Space Invaders) around here. Obsolete switch that has nothing to do with Cherry MX.Show Image(http://www.freeopenbook.com/upgrading-repairing-pc/FILES/18fig03.gif)Show Image(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-sQ6TN93LvU/Sxpw7u4RtdI/AAAAAAAAAFE/JZ9OtquD0Dc/s800/10%20126.jpg)
I think the Razer marketing/engineering team has a few things to learn about building keyboards. It took Das (Metadot) about 4 tries over 4 years to get the Das Keyboard to finally work properly.
It's a NMB switch (affectionately called Space Invaders) around here.
BOY, is that thing filled with errors!
I always want to stab dudes that have "beach ball" bellies in the gut to see if they pop. It looks unnatural.Show Image(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmKrdeDn0-4aFCBGgdoXVEz7yr60aRo4sNJq12TZURiqbU2GU&t=1&usg=__0zo9ytaUHGcTdqmfdL1sJWWm0G8=)
It'd sell, though. Even if they're probably not exactly ideal for gaming.
You guys can always vote on the Xarmor Poll for what switches they should offer. (http://www.xarmor-usa.com/cherry-mechanical-key-switches-vote.html)
Me, I only listen to professional gamers.Show Image(http://sciencefun.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/pro_vs_noob.jpg)
Screw clicky, PCB-mounted MX browns are the bomb.
What's your question?
"Go read up on Topre capacitive switches before you start bagging rubber domes. Retard."
probably purely commercially motivated, arent mx browns more expansive than mx blue?
2. What key switch is used in the Razer BlackWidow? To dispel all confusion once and for all – we use the Cherry Blues – and in our design process, we’ve got a pretty strict guideline on sorting of each switch, so it’s not just the Cherry Blues but those with a certain characteristic/tolerance guideline. So…they’re cherry-picked. I can’t go into the tolerance/sorting guidelines but I can say that it provides for a different experience as opposed to a normal Cherry Blue switch keyboard.
but then the guy said "6 KRO" which would suggest that it's a NKRO keyboard limited by the USB controller.
up to 6-key rollover
Does the UBL9 have the QC issues that the Scorpious has?
There’s a lot of marketing bull**** and FUD out there about which color is better etc etc.
There’s a lot of marketing bull**** and FUD out there about which color is better etc etc.
I'm glad the rep posted but it did come out like a bunch of doublespeak.
Specific issues that I have ragged on are:
- Up to 6KRO doesn't mean much. Coming clean and providing a chart like the iRocks gaming board would be nice (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8632&&highlight=irocks+gaming).
- 1000khz polling rate. Please don't put it on the features list without backing up benefits.
- Why no Gold USB connector for decreased latency?
OK, OK, I'm keeding about that last one.
Why is this guy dressed up for Nascar?
4 keys. So if I am using CTRL-WDR to reload while crawling diagonally and then radio or chat I may be in trouble.
Bummer.
What was your source of info again?
4. Does the Razer BlackWidow have NKRO?
We were the first in the world to push the limits of anti-ghosting when we released the Razer Tarantula gaming keyboard some 4 years ago, so we know how important this feature is for many gamers. However, we also balance this against the other features that gamers require. . Razer BlackWidow’s up to 6-key rollover gaming optimized key matrix serves a similar purpose for gamers who need anti-ghosting while using an ordinary USB port (as opposed to a PS/2 port). In addition, by using a USB connection the Razer BlackWidow is able to provide gamers advanced customization and performance features that are not available using a PS/2 connection, using Razer’s configuration software.
7. The Razer BlackWidow must be a cheapass, low quality piece of junk because it costs US$79.99 while other mech keyboards cost at least twice that! I insist on paying twice more! Well, due to the feedback, we have decided to increase the price to US$149.99 for the Razer BlackWidow. (just kidding)...cause you guys didn't put in diodes.
lol
I used to like braided cables until clown aka whatever his nickname on this forum is posted this picture.Show Image(http://i44.tinypic.com/14v4f0w.jpg)
and he is right all they do is fray.
I don't know what he is doing to his mice, but I have a G9 for about 2 years now and a XAI for 3 months.. and the cables look still perfect...
ah, and my denon headphones (AH-D2000) also have a braided cable... also like new. No problems at all .. maybe he has a rough surface?
lol
I used to like braided cables until clown aka whatever his nickname on this forum is posted this picture.Show Image(http://i44.tinypic.com/14v4f0w.jpg)
and he is right all they do is fray.
OMFG/WTF/etc WHY THE BLUES INSTEAD OF THE [Insert your favorite color switch here] First up, they all cost almost the same – blues, blacks, reds, etc and we had tested all of the switches with multiple designs.
clackhead has the cutest nickname.
I have owned a steelseries xai since January and I use a mouse bungee. 3 weeks ago I had to burn off some fibers with a lighter.I have my Xai since August last year, the cable still looks like new (SS cord holder), best cable I ever had on a mouse, didn't have a problem with the Ikari, which I used before, either.
Hey, you can still get the bleeding edge motherboard with PS2 port and USB 3.0 ports. I just wish USB 3.0 didn't have the same limitations, especially since the connector shape is different. If it isn't going to be backwards compatible, what is the point of not doing some major innovation?
you mean USB 3.0 isn't going to improve anything? rollover? data? power?
I know what USB 3.0 is I am talking about the impact it will have on keyboards. any keyboard. for starters it would be nice if you could plug the Logitech G19 in without having to use a A/C adapter.
the Razer|Ark rep was at OCN yesterday in the mechanical keyboard guide but didn't post :(
Need guinea pigs. Squeal.
I honestly don't trust anything Razer's marketing department is saying.
Filco has proper NKRO, is probably better built (the Razer is coming from an OEM whose products don't have the best reputation for QA, obviously we won't know for certain till it comes out, but it's worth nothing) and is looks less ridiculous :P
?
Aren't they both from Costar?
3. OMFG/WTF/etc WHY THE BLUES INSTEAD OF THE [Insert your favorite color switch here] First up, they all cost almost the same – blues, blacks, reds, etc and we had tested all of the switches with multiple designs. So we picked the Blues intentionally from the get go. We went through a design cycle with each of the different switches and our ergo team together with our pool of pro gamers went through extensive validation of the Blues – we came up with 2 real conclusions, 1. It’s a question of preference of each user primarily and 2. There’s a lot of marketing bull**** and FUD out there about which color is better etc etc.
5.
Some of the key design features include our shifting of the F-key row from the traditional position to the right – just above the WASD cluster (F1 is above the W key).
6. Why are the function keys on the Razer BlackWidow shifted slightly more to the right? Our ergonomics team has made subtle changes to the placement of the keytop – while most of the placement of the keys have been retained to allow gamers to immediately get used to the key locations, we have shifted the F-key row to the right slightly to align the F1 key directly above the W of the WASD home keys. Extensive ergonomics tests have shown that this new alignment will allow faster keypress accuracy for games that require the use of the F-key row.
3) I am not sure what switches they actually use (did not have anything suitable to pry it out)
edit: ok i see that they are actually using the blue switches according to an earlier post. That comes as abit of a shock
I guess none of your pro players bottom out then? Cause if you bottom out like pretty much every gamer do, tactile switches are useless and annoying. The bump in force does nothing and is only a hinder before you bottom out.
I heard the SC2 keyboard will use mechanical switches too, according to the razer reps anyway. These guys are clueless part-timers though so this may not be a false rumor.
6. Why are the function keys on the Razer BlackWidow shifted slightly more to the right? Our ergonomics team has made subtle changes to the placement of the keytop – while most of the placement of the keys have been retained to allow gamers to immediately get used to the key locations, we have shifted the F-key row to the right slightly to align the F1 key directly above the W of the WASD home keys. Extensive ergonomics tests have shown that this new alignment will allow faster keypress accuracy for games that require the use of the F-key row.
6. Why are the function keys on the Razer BlackWidow shifted slightly more to the right? Our manufacturer has made changes to the placement of the keytop in the model we used for reference – while most of the placement of the keys have been retained, we have no clue why they shifted the F-key row slightly to the right and they told us it was to align the F1 key directly above the W of the WASD home keys. Extensive marketing experience has shown us that this above statement will be swallowed by the majority of gamers that use the F-key row.
Hell, contract with Blizzard, APM-light indicatorr, and Mechanical for 119.99? (Wow, the price has been reduced o.o I believe it used to be 129.99)
No way Razer will be that kind-hearted.
On the GamesCom it was shown as rubberdome.
I disagree with this. I would prefer a tactile and clickie response that tells me that the key has been actuated. Anyhow theres always the steel series for those who prefer the blacks.
I have the problem even when I don't double tap. I can't even play counterstrike with blue switches, since moving back and forth doesn't work. When I'm quickly switching between keys, like to peek out around a corner, I don't fully lift my fingers up. This makes the blue switches not work.
Watch yourself when you play next time, and see if you lift your fingers up when you move around. If you do, then the blue's should work fine.
I can't play Team Fortress 2 with Cherry MX Blue switches.
My kid plays TF2 with Buckling Springs fine.
The OCN crowd always gets hysterical about hysteresis. I think it's way overblown.
My kid plays TF2 with Buckling Springs fine.
The OCN crowd always gets hysterical about hysteresis. I think it's way overblown.
When somebody finally gets this thing be sure to check it's Pseudo N-key capabilities thoroughly. I'm curious what failure modes it has.
Use the brand new Nkey Reference Wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=NKey+Rollover+-+Overview+Testing+Methodology+and+Results), not the gawdawful one star Nkey sticky above.
I wonder if Razer will come clean about failure modes BEFORE it ships or force the clueless press to figure it out?
When somebody finally gets this thing be sure to check it's Pseudo N-key capabilities thoroughly. I'm curious what failure modes it has.
Use the brand new Nkey Reference Wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=NKey+Rollover+-+Overview+Testing+Methodology+and+Results), not the gawdawful one star Nkey sticky above.
I wonder if Razer will come clean about failure modes BEFORE it ships or force the clueless press to figure it out?
Crazy9000 hit the donkey on the head.
I can't play Team Fortress 2 with Cherry MX Blue switches.
but but but I just bought an MX blue filco which is on its way and I play TF2 all the time :(
Say it ain't so!
Cherry blues are perfectly fine for gaming - I just can't understand the constant whining about this. I play TF2 all the time and have had no problems whatsoever.
Lmnop is a tiny little crying baby man who just soiled his diaper.
Theres something I still don't understand...why is NKRO so important? I don't plan on rolling my face across the keyboard so is NKRO really that important?
Also i see quite a bit of talk about the force rating of diff switches, but what about dome/scissor force ratings? Are they all 60 as razer's site would claim. I just have a hard time swallowing everything they market =p
I have experienced gamer fatigue in long sessions where my fingers start to hurt from holding down keys. So i was thinking blues or browns, or even clear mx switches but ive also read a lot of conflicting statements that tactile switches are bad for gaming, or clicking switches like the blues are bad for gaming.
Why exactly is tactile or clicky bad for gaming? I remember reading something about having to let the key come fully up before you can press it again but I dont know if thats for tactile or if thats for clicking.
So does that mean I should get reds? Are they still not available in the US? I may have to wait until the black window is released and head down to a best buy and try out the blues on it or the blacks on the steelseries 7g because i doubt they will have any mechanical keyboards other than those two.
Sorry for the poorly structured post tried to get all this out before i have to leave for work =P
/thread hijack
Fine by me! Who's hosting?
Theres something I still don't understand...why is NKRO so important? I don't plan on rolling my face across the keyboard so is NKRO really that important?
Also i see quite a bit of talk about the force rating of diff switches, but what about dome/scissor force ratings? Are they all 60 as razer's site would claim. I just have a hard time swallowing everything they market =p
Why exactly is tactile or clicky bad for gaming? I remember reading something about having to let the key come fully up before you can press it again but I dont know if thats for tactile or if thats for clicking.
Once again, has anyone here preordered? Or everyone just whining in this 452 post thread?
Show Image(http://i56.tinypic.com/21on2o6.png)
mmm
I disagree with your disagree. In gaming environment i don't think you have time to care about whether or not you "know" the key has been activated. It's the end result that counts and having gamed on Cherry blues, they aren't fast enough for certain games, namely FPS when you gotta double tap, etc. You really need to let up on the blues before they can activate again. However as always, to each their own.
Yeah im leaning deck but @ $192 shipped its a little hard to swallow. It will be a month anyway or so before i can set aside enough to buy one anyway.
I did notice this though:Show Image(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs392.snc4/45506_147710851915089_114235728595935_356043_7026459_n.jpg)
The packaging will allow you to try a few buttons out on the store shelf if they dont have a display model.
Seems a little dangerous too, someone could easily jack the keycaps ;x
Yeah im leaning deck but @ $192 shipped its a little hard to swallow.
Yeah i see what you mean now. I made a comparison graph to help visualize the difference. I posed it in my newb thread. But ive got to wonder what made both xarmor and razer decide to go with blues? Theres got to be some reasoning besides clicky = easier to market.
And lmnop sez to buy that Deck $200 keyboard NOW!Show Image(http://i44.tinypic.com/90n0p2.gif)
No harm in waiting to see what it really is instead of idle speculation and following all the Blue Cherry Hate posts.
I just realized my Logitech DiNovo Mini also uses that lasered cell phone method. The keys aren't rubberized at all so hopefully these won't be either.
If they release this keyboard with Cherry Browns now, they wouldn't have anything new for later to sell ...... Can't you see, 6 months down the line, "New ADVANCED Razer Godzilla Keyboard - improving switches (brown)"..
hey Eric how come in your Northgate Omnikey review you said it failed NKRO?
apparently it does (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=63301&postcount=77). I always thought it had native NKRO through XT/AT but once you connect a PS/2 adapter it's nullified I guess I was wrong (again) :)
NKRO though an active PS/2 adapter like the Blue Cube (not the passive Purple Prince ones) always limit you to USB 6+4 spec.
AT to PS/2 is passive.
Make sure you follow the test procedure in the N-key Wiki.
Here's me when people don't follow simple instructions.
Would be simple to check for diodes.
What was the Omnikey NCS anyway? Maybe it's a cost reduced version.
They blew the NKRO diode budget on a voltage oscillator for the logo's LED.
So back on topic.....
Razer did the Media keys right. FCN key on the right works for me. (Well, kinda - I use WIN+Arrow keys a LOT in Win7 to dock/minimize windows so now I have to use two hands).Show Image(http://www.techpowerup.com/img/10-08-19/106c.jpg)
Now the Das Multimedia S (Oh, how short a life! One Month! We hardly knew ye!), the Steelseries (you are not worthy of a LWindows key so eat my obnoxious logo key) and the Xarmor (Shift + FCN - wha? What about all my Adobe/Microsoft Office shortcuts!!!) screwed it up. Deck stuck media keys on their obsolete numpad (lol) but just left them off their standard keyboards sidestepping the whole issue.
Ugh. The Font. Don't get me started. Luckily Gamers can't spell font so graphic design is the least of their worries.
The Razer rep already said it wasn't gonna be NKRO or even 6KRO. At least they are being honest upfront.
They blew the NKRO diode budget on a voltage oscillator for the logo's LED.
[stuff about a razer keyboard]
20,000 views. Popular thread.(http://9gag.com/photo/34992_380.jpg)
And now the answer you've been waiting for.
Both.
Both.
Our edge is in our technology and our talented scientists and engineers. For example, the Razer Mamba is the world’s first mouse that achieved gaming grade wireless technology and after 2 years, no other brand has come close to achieving our 1ms gaming grade wireless technology.
The Razer BlackWidow that we just launched is a great example. Other companies have just gone to Chinese or Taiwanese factories, obtained a mechanical keyboard, slapped on a logo and called it a gaming keyboard while charging exorbitant prices for them. We designed and engineered the Razer BlackWidow from ground up - essentially the world’s first true mechanical gaming keyboard.
Bummer. Razer not shipping yet. Pushed to Oct 13th even if you pre-ordered.
From OCN.
Hi,
Production for the Razer BlackWidow has hit a bit of a snag and is taking a wee bit longer than we projected, and that’s why the change in the release date.
We are currently preparing a mass email to be sent to all customers who preordered the Razer BlackWidow before the shipping date was changed.
The new shipping date is currently 13th of October for all orders.
Apologies for any inconvenience caused.
Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12529&stc=1&d=1284689911)
#11 Makes You Korean!!!
OMG when's it out when's it out LOL.
This is Arnold Schwarzeneggers son reviewing it.
none of the schwarzeneggers are from germany.. they are austrian ;)
This video tells you absolutely nothing but I like the screen freeze.
This is Arnold Schwarzeneggers son reviewing it.
Jawohl Mein Herr! Changing the location of the FCN keys was plain stupid.
competitive level gamer
Well, a little accuracy is all I ask. The diagram of a 10 year old obsolete NMB "Space Invader" switch instead of a Cherry MX switch for example. Does make you wonder what they were doing during that 4 years of R&D.
This is Arnold Schwarzeneggers son reviewing it.
Jawohl Mein Herr!
Well, a little accuracy is all I ask.
Hitler is from Germany too
Sorry. Apologies to the Dutch.
In the USA we don't say "retarded". We say "developmentally challenged".
Q: What type of mechanical key switch does the Razer BlackWidow use?
A: The Razer BlackWidow uses tactile and clicky Cherry MX Blue mechanical key switches. Each of the mechanical switches has been sorted prior to manufacture to adhere to a strict design guideline.
As far as I can tell, arrows don't make a difference to n-key as long as you don't have more than 6 key's pressed at once (USB's limit).
Eric, I think you may want to review the Nkey wiki. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=NKey+Rollover+-+Overview+Testing+Methodology+and+Results)
And Tofumeister there must have bribed a booth babe or something to get one because I did a quick check of the Singapore VR forum and they aren't talking about getting them in stores yes.
"Certificate of Authenticity"
why did razer choose cherry blues? they said they did a test and conclude its the best gaming switch. its far from wat ive heard. i can imagine a black widow at lan. expect some one to get stabbed. i find the click to be annoying. plus when ur gaming with headphones you dont heard much of wat is outside so wat is the point.
Blues can work for gaming though the action is noticeably delayed if your used to other switches like brown or linear. But they work, the biggest problem is the noise is unnerving for gaming in a need quiet to listen to enemies around or music. For typing it's fine and enjoyable but that individualistic click, click, click does become annoying with the irregularity of key actions during gaming.
But I think the blues have that "Fun Factor". Although it does make it like "Oh mechanical = old = noisy, double-edged saying". I still think people would prefer it as a first buy or as well let's see if it really is THAT different from a run of the mill membrane dome. So in a way the blues do put out an impression of difference.
But then that just raises a question if razer is selling the blues to build up interest. And later sell other switches and maybe go so far as to say these are superior to blues and this and that and basically resell the same boards with different switches to the same who bought the blues thinking this new switch makes them better.
Not saying it won't, blues can be annoying but seems very, VERY strange they would choose the blues. If they spent THAT many years researching then they obviously weren't looking too well into it.
Edit: It could also be that maybe razer is trying to get into a mass market sell i.e. try and reach media users and business as silly as it sounds. Because they did add a lot of macro features from reading on the keyboard. So maybe they are on an underlying "gaming", they are also marketing to other markets to expand sales with the blues. Or for those who want a flashy looking keyboard despite not gaming or anything.
Despite apperaing to be cherry blue switches,when I used the Rip-O-Meter tool, I got a measurement of 60g (12 nickels) on the "F" key, "[" key, and the spacebar! This is intriguing, given that the cherry blue switch is designed to actuate at 50g.
This is my best guess as to why. But really no one knows but whoever came up with the decision to use them.
What's more puzzling is Razer using NMB "Space Invader" switches as the diagram for their show case. That's even more strange than cherry mx blues, honestly. Blues aren't horrible, many have put in their own personal story on them but NMBs are a in a completely other category when it comes to switches.
lol
lol
I guess that's so when you hand the keyboard down to your grandchildren they know it's not one of those cheap imitation Razers.
Overall, I have to say that the Razer BlackWidow is a high quality, extremely functional product, especially given the $80 asking price. The apparent pad printing process raises concerns about the durability of the lettering, but at a price of $80 I would be hard beat to find a higher quality product. The Razer BlackWidow is definately worth a look for those looking to enter the mechanical keyboard game.
ASX (diagonal move and comms)
WDE (diagonal move and open door)
SDC (diagonal move and try to crouch)
WAQ (diagonal move and toss grenade)
CTRL-AQ (crawling and toss grenade)
ESDF variations with other keys (for ESDF players)
ARROW KEY cluster and a bunch of other keys (for you lefties)
CAPSLOCK-LSHIFT-S If you using the Capslock for CTRL this particular key combo can be a pain while doing some general software. Interestingly enough this key combo PASSES on Unicomp Spacesavers. Don’t assume the behavior of all 2KRO keyboards are the same. In this case Unicomp must use a different matrix to pick up the Windows keys and so it fails WAX, a combo that passes in the IBM Model M.
It's really too bad Razer didn't put the $1 of diodes into the the $129 version
She looks bored on those rubber domes and is thinking to herself, "When is that nerd at the end getting off the Black Widow?"Show Image(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs631.snc4/59105_10150089527772576_13848807575_7257968_5482391_n.jpg)
It doesn't look bad to me at all.
This has prob been discussed, don't flame me if it has but are the keys double shot black/translucent or do they use the sticker type system that Deck uses for their keys?
Where did you buy it?Show Image(http://www.mrinterface.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/galleryformatter_slide/core%20interface%20spacebar.JPG)
I think the process involves etching into the plastic, then laying paint in the depression. Or something like that. It is more durable than pad printing, but not as beast as double-shot keys.
Nice! im still waffling between getting this or a deck. The deck boards just seem much better built and the razers are so hit or miss quality wise
Not a biggy. The Deck USB's 6KRO is fine. Really. I'm sure of it. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=NKey+Rollover+-+Overview+Testing+Methodology+and+Results) Positive.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7649&stc=1&d=1265053760)
The Razer 2KRO you might want to wait on a bit for further testing if you are really concerned. Cheap bastards should have added the $1 worth of diodes to a $130 model though.
Don't even bother getting the Black Widdow. Keep buying Filco.
lol, wasn't trying to put down the Black Widdow. Just lightly making fun of the hype in finding "the best gaming keyboard".. since there really isn't one, it's all in preference.
Don't even bother getting the Black Widdow. Keep buying Filco.
At least that's what the pro Starcraft II players are using
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=157888
I started a thread in the off topic section about it
After skimming through that I have no idea why those posts are even bothered to be posted majority of the people in there are gonna be shocked at the prices and stuck in a state of disbelief and wonder what is the point. Seems like every few posts a person pops up and is like WTF.
It's funny, that guy who won the tournament didn't have a Topre. Because then people would really be ****ting themselves at the price and wonder why. Or better yet a HHKB, that keyboard always seems to make people go WTF.
And as for the whole NKRO thing, it's not about hitting every goddamn key. It's about having a redundant system to allow the keyboard to ignore various key issues anywhere along the board.
If people are buying a keyboard at EKB and are paying THAT much does it really kill you just to pay an extra 20 dollars. I mean if you buy a keyboard this expensive you'd expect your monies worth, right?
Do people really find it that bad they have to debate the issue, if someone buys a keyboard from Razer with anti-ghosting only to find out it's optimized to WASD cluster only that's acceptable, but 20 dollars worth of diodes is not?
A filco is $40 more than the $80 Razer. Also, most people won't care about NKRO (the sad truth), and those that do can just get a Filco. Everyone's happy.
Don't even bother getting the Black Widdow. Keep buying Filco.
At least that's what the pro Starcraft II players are using
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=157888
I started a thread in the off topic section about it
I'd watch way more tournaments if they were casted properly.
I have stumbled over HD Starcraft and that dude casts man. Others just don't compare, they are either boring or annoying (like husky).
Shame that guy doesn't cast finals series...
Small correction, is not _allowed_ to cast finals series :) AFAIK, finals series in Korea are not casted in english at all, the corporation running them does not allow anyone to cast their matches except themselves.
So.....
Anybody ordered a Razer yet?
I'd watch way more tournaments if they were casted properly.
I have stumbled over HD Starcraft and that dude casts man. Others just don't compare, they are either boring or annoying (like husky).
Shame that guy doesn't cast finals series...
I'd watch way more tournaments if they were casted properly.
I have stumbled over HD Starcraft and that dude casts man. Others just don't compare, they are either boring or annoying (like husky).
Shame that guy doesn't cast finals series...
Actually, it was cast in English as well (http://www.gomtv.net/). The casters were Tasteless and Artosis, who are both much better players and casters than HD or Husky.
Actually, it was cast in English as well (http://www.gomtv.net/). The casters were Tasteless and Artosis, who are both much better players and casters than HD or Husky.
A few minutes ago we exceeded 30,000 views for this thread (30,105).
OCN's Razer Thread is at 27,191 despite a MUCH larger membership.
@MrBlond If the Deck & Razer have too much bezel for you and you have to have backlit, etc., why not look into getting an xarmor u9bl (http://www.ione.com.tw/2009/Product/6A_SC-U9%20BL.asp)? That wrist rest detaches. Their board was out before razers and hopefully they'll be out before razer with their brown variant. All though, they aren't as easy to obtain, unfortunately. Still, way easier than some of the asian keyboards.Show Image(http://www.ione.com.tw/2009/Product/6A_Mechanical/SC-U9-BL.gif)
wouldn't it just be cuz OCN is an overclocking site and if ppl wanted more in depth info on mech keyboards to head on over to geekhack? thats what happened to me (and i'm sure many others) longtime member of [H], saw the mech keyboard thread and it said for more info head over to geekhack.
Probably not rubberized though. The $80 Black Widow looked pretty standard texture to me.
There was a discussion about the alleged flat layout on the teamliquid thread, and everyone decided it was just a lazy artist.
Generally, using macro keys is banned at tournaments, so I don't think competitive level gamers are likely to use those features.
According to my friend , BlackWidows non-ultimate are all over Singapore now .
You really should stop hanging around OCN and those Asian blogs. Full of misinformation.Show Image(http://rlv.zcache.com/which_orange_circle_is_larger_optical_illusion_stationery-p2299046617964991902d04b_400.jpg)
Filco D key on top of Lavendar Filco D key. They are identical in every way (except the coating).Show Image(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/5070271378_627cbc6e62_z.jpg)
Come to the Dark Side. We Have Cookies!
And everyone complains about Filcos getting shiney. Look at that SteelSeries F key!
Only for females. Candy if you are of a certain age.
Looks like it's been polished with oil. Lol!
We've already had people here plasti-dip their keys. Actually I thought that was kinda kinky.
What about the Ultimate on the shelves though?
I think that would be the big seller. Once it gets heavily discounted it should be a Deck and Xarmor killer.
Hey, nobody answered the trivia quiz about where's Waldo in this pic!Show Image(http://imgur.com/niVEd.jpg)
It's the 9 key on the number row. It's now F9.
Now THAT'S Razer QC.
Show Image(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_blGfuJqvbMU/RYk-ymuk8MI/AAAAAAAAADc/kQnXsgDIOAg/s320/Arrested_Development_-_Good_Grief.jpg)
Nice beagle.
the Lavender W, S, A, D are wider, broader and I think they have the same height.
Logitech macro software does not allow remapping of all keys. I "believe" Microsoft SW is similar. This is the main reason I'm considering this board.
On a similar note, does anyone know if the Razer SW allows mouse click mapping to keyboard keys?
Sorry, but the additional required CPU time is insignificant, even for gamers.
(TT esports also market 1000Hz polling for their Keyboards, besides ventilators :c))
when is this gonna be available?
The razer mouse thing, isn't nearly as evil as setpoint for my Logi(&@#, so I'm guessing/hoping the same is true for the keyboard software. We know Logitech Setpoint is a PIA, but I haven't heard complaints about Razer keyboard software, aside from people that don't want to install anything at all. If I was gonna buy because of the software, I'd do some actual research, as opposed to just what has crossed my path.
When president Ronald Reagan and wife traveled to Ireland, they were constantly correcting the people who called them "Reegin" instead of "Raygan".
Setpoint ? you sure ?
I'm using it for my G500 and it works lovely. What exactly is the problem with the Setpoint ???
The razer on the otherhand cannot update the firmware on the Death Adder for Win7 64bit :/
Anyway, how does the Razer leds compare to the Deck legend ? Or is the Blackwidow Ultimate going to be as lack luster lighting like my Logitech G15 V1 ? (very dim)
Well, that's why I included a mouse click and rubber dome keyboard sample. Surely you have one of those?
I noticed there was a contest going on at Razer. The ultimate prize is a choice of your Professional Gaming Mouse, your ideal Professional Gaming Surface and Gaming Keyboard (just tell us which one you would like to have - it‘s yours), the Razer Megalodon 7.1 Gaming Audio Headset, Razer Armadillo2 Mouse Cable Management System, a Razer Attitude Tee, Razer Messenger Bag, Razer Gear Rack and a Razer l33t Pack.
If you refer 10 people you also qualify for the l337 prizes (there are 1337 of them)
Contest ends 10/25
Open to the world (yay for non-US geekhackers).
I have included my referral link to the contest below. Hopefully some of us will win some cool swag (I would think it includes the blackwidow ultimate).
On a side note...my first post!!!:first: Been reading for a bit, but haven't seen this posted around here and thought it was relevant. I was thinking of getting the BW, but even better if it's free.
Linky (http://l33t.razerzone.com/index.php?user_dtl=aacfa7ddb9ad44d69833f6a6e047e2c0)
? Nothing desparate about it.
It's called good marketing and obviously is working.
Full specs on the BlackWidow software.
Using software as a competitive advantage against Xarmor and Deck.
Setpoint ? you sure ?
I'm using it for my G500 and it works lovely. What exactly is the problem with the Setpoint ???
The razer on the otherhand cannot update the firmware on the Death Adder for Win7 64bit :/
Anyway, how does the Razer leds compare to the Deck legend ? Or is the Blackwidow Ultimate going to be as lack luster lighting like my Logitech G15 V1 ? (very dim)
Using software as a competitive advantage against Xarmor and Deck.
Lycossa has other problems. Hope the illuminated Black Widow fares better than this guys spacebar.Show Image(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8273/00002863362555.jpg)
Hello everyone!
I'm just looking around for keyboard reviews and found this forum, you guys have awesome databases :) I was reading this thread from page 1 to 30 and got some information overloaded LOL
I'm looking for my first mech keyboard right now since my crappy Lycosa worn out by me smashing on their keys too much (seriously I only brought it because it's remap/macroable)
I'm considering BW (with LEDs, 'cos I have to use it mostly in the dark. Also I really need macros) but someone said that Cherry Blues have to lift up further than the actuation point in order to reactuate, is it really that tall to effect gameplay? Sometimes I play music-games that requires me to press key(s) as rapid as 5 times a second or more, so I don't wanna release the key all the way up.
And I'm wondering whether the BW will ghosts around ASDFJKL; cluster (plus space bar) because that's where I play.
I'm gonna buy BW for sure due to their macro, but if it couldn't keep up with the requirements for my music-gaming, i would buy a second board to do so.
Can you help me think of boards that suits me better in music-gaming? I press (or smash) on keys very rapidly and I want it to have low actuation force and do tactile but still keep up with rapid firing (click is nice but I would be fine without it) and also with NKRO and very low response time too. Filco's ?
Thx :D
If you want true NKRO you have the Deck Legend and Xarmor as backlit options. Unfortunately no reviews have been posted at Geekhack so you'll need to do a search.
Are you talking about o2jam? ASDFJKL; cluster + spacebar?
If yes, BW is a hella big no-no. I wonder how you managed to play o2jam with Lycosa though :|
If no, personally I don't really like blue switches for playing those kind of game though. Rubber dome will be the best.
Hello everyone!
And I'm wondering whether the BW will ghosts around ASDFJKL; cluster (plus space bar) because that's where I play.
Thx :D
but blues bugged me because they gave me goods instead of cools in o2jam :|Maybe we have to match the click from the keys right when the note hits, maybe some timing adjustments required, no big for me though :)
Maybe browns will be better. But still, those two are kinda too light for me.
Maybe it's one of those situations where blacks or reds might be appropriate?I've never tried Reds, but I did tried SteelSeries 7G which i feel that it's keys are a bit heavy for my taste. And I want to have a tactile feedback too.
Personally I prefer Brown Cherrys for gaming. They make me fall asleep when typing though (like now).
Seems more logical than posting it in a Razer Mechanical keyboard thread.
Seems more logical than posting it in a Razer Mechanical keyboard thread.
For the F-ing first time, Razer will be having a booth in Indonesian computer exhibition.
Lessee the BW over there. I'll post some picture later. It's scheduled for November 3rd - 7th.
I thought Abyssus were 3200 Dpi... *weird*
Why not post it here at Geekhack in the reviews section?
Ctrl-a-q
Crawling going left and pushing Q is a no-no.
Hmmm... Different results here. (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=227352&postcount=592)
What test are you using?
Also, please be specific which arrow combos aren't working. Usually it's a diagonal move with some other key is more real life.
Two arrows with z x c v or two of these?
it looks really nice... is it the cheapest cherry blue we can get in USA without build quality problems?
The RK-9000 seems to not have build quality issues, but as far as I can tell no one has put it through its paces with a disassembly yet.
I do not understand your question.
Two arrows with z x c v or two of these?
Plenty of room for $1 worth of diodes too.
The RK-9000 seems to not have build quality issues, but as far as I can tell no one has put it through its paces with a disassembly yet.
Ba-da BUMP!Show Image(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh69/kairxa/Indocomtech%20dan%20JMS%202010/IMG00092-20101104-1256.jpg)
Well, now that I've recovered from the blindness this induced, I think I can explain the keys.
From what I recall, when I tested the Marauder SC keyboard out, the keys are all rubberized a bit with a soft touch material. Felt great on the fingers. Any chance that is what it is?
I've not seen a BW in person yet, so I'm not sure...
Oh, I was aware that those were pictures of the BlackWidow. I was just curious if it had the same rubber treatment the Marauder has.
I was pretty happy gaming on the Marauder when I tested it, but I haven't had a chance to see how it feels now that I've started using mechanical keyboards. Was also funny spamming APM on it and watching it glow all crazy :p
If only the Marauder used some kind of mechanical switch...
OT: Damn that booth girl is delicious.
Now the "regular" version is pushed to 11/30, 2 days later than the Ultimate, which probably will be delayed too?...
Only thing that speaks for razer is some macros and localization. Still, price is in acceptable range, but not sure about the KRO...
Likely finding one used is best bet...
The keys also have other nice design features, like a light rubberized coating.
Still, the more I know about other products out there, the more I dislike Razer. *sigh*
That's the natural progression in the world of keyboards. Same goes for Logitech :)
hm, I have yet to see any Logitech board that doesn't feel "mushy" after a short period of time... printing well maybe even logitechs used better printing methods back in the days
hm, I have yet to see any Logitech board that doesn't feel "mushy" after a short period of time... printing well maybe even logitechs used better printing methods back in the days
Old dome boards are good
The BW isn't actually in stock in a brick and mortar store is it? I'm not exactly interested in this board, but it would be nice to try it out to see what the MX Blues are like.
I didn't get a chance to dissect the Das; could someone open up their Das/Filco/Steelseries/Rosewill and look at how the plate is connected to the PCB? We'll compare notes.
On the U9BL you can see metal tabs attaching the plate and PCB.
{img}http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/225/9/3/u9bl_14_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg[/img]
Interesting to note that the iOne has much neater soldering than the Costar. Shorter component leads, neater solder points, a *lot* less flux residue. The Costar even has a few borderline potential cold joints here and there. Interesting.
But Razer doesn't have the retail presence it used to.
I'm afraid to ask, since I haven't exactly read all 60 pages of this thread.
But how similar would the feel of the BW be compared to say... Das Keyboard?
I'm thinking of trying a BW out, and if I enjoy the feel, buy a Das.
Now I know they won't feel identical, and I've heard the sound is a bit different, but would the difference be so great that it would change my decision?
finally decided to pull the trigger on the blackwidow, not sure if it was the right choice at $80 shipped. Maybe I should've been more patient and wait for the RK-9000...
Hopefully it will arrive before Thanksgiving ^^"
EDIT: Just realized this is my 20th post overall, I guess I'm the fast acting type. :)
Review is up here:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12841 (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12841)
I had the board laying around for a month and due to lack of time and recently also internet access. I did not have the chance to actually fully review it until now.
Amazon Dudes likes it. (http://www.amazon.com/Razer-BlackWidow-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard/product-reviews/B003ZJ1VD8/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1) Now this is interesting. I could have sworn earlier in this thread I posted a 1-2 star review there. Now it's gone. Damn internet.
This thread has now hit over 50,000 views, beating OCN's Razer Mechanical Keyboard thread at 43,116. A few more thousand it will have the most views of any thread here.
This thread seems to tickle rip's epeen quite a bit.
I never understood the competition with OCN...but im new here so maybe i wasn't around for what started this war ;x
webwit and ripster are bat**** loco people.
Small correction.
However this is the result of the n-key rollover test (the quick brown fox jumps right over the lazy dog while holding both shift keys down).
I don't know how long it would take to program the firmware but $49 is a fairly average HOURLY rate for a contract firmware developer...A keyboard with diodes makes the firmware easier as it needs no algorithms to prevent ghosting. The only worry is if you are going to live with USB's legacy 6KRO or try to shoot for a higher number. If we're generous this could take a man-month which translates into 200 hours max.
...unless of course you outsourced it.
Isn't programming just like stacking legos and poking them to make sure it's stable?
Fair enough. I guess I am just evaluating it from a gaming point of view.
From a gaming point of view you should care even less. I have never ever had to hold down 3 keys in a game and was not able to... Modifiers don't even count towards that 2KRO so it's not even like you can't diagonal-move and crouch at the same time or something...
What? LEDs still act as diodes...
Do you want them to emit photons, or do you want them to block current? Pick one. They are not great at passing small signals in the forward direction because they're not designed for it, and the signal/power lines would get all muddled up. You might as well say all cars are identical because they have wheels.
I have a Doctorate in Diodes. The LED ones emit light and that's ALL they do.
The other ones keep those nasty ghosts away - if only Razer Black Widow had them.Show Image(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5284/5213809426_5546c4144f_z.jpg)
Huh ? 2KRO is 2KRO ...
There will always be a 3 key sequence that fails.
What? LEDs still act as diodes...Sure they do, but they sit in another circuit. You don't want to have the LEDs light up when a key is pressed, rather they must be constantly lit.
Yeah, so I won't be able to press xc and p at the same time.
My favorite combination.
Honestly, most people won't notice the difference, and only NKRO "enthusiasts" actually care (and they have likely already bought a Filco or Das.
P.S. My comments only pertain to the cheap version.
Hahaha - glad you didn't take that personally.
Actually the part about modifiers, USB, and Nkey. CTRL-A-Q is often blocked. It's all about the matrix that defines the guaranteed Key Rollover number so the "6+4modifier USB rule" doesn't really apply here. It only comes into play with a keyboard with diodes.
keyboard manufacturers like Razer and Logitech gloss over the issue and don't publish or even want to talk about the allowable key combos.
Which Razer? The Illuminated one?
Nope, the basic one. The keyboard should arrive in two days.
When did you order it? I wanted to order it last week but it's been "on backorder" for a while.
Ever since Xarmor gave Phaedrus a couple of review samples it's like he's their community marketing dude.
Well Razer basically lied their butts off, gave me the finger, and denied me a review sample. So... Sure, I actively recommend XArmor over them. At least XArmor didn't claim to invent their own switch, and spent the money for NKRO diodes instead of a voltage oscillator for a pulsating logo.
Maybe I should ask them to pay me for being their community marketing guy? Hm....
Guess what I just got a sent a review sample of :)Show Image(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q269/damutation/bwda.jpg)
Those arrow keys feel quite a bit different than the Filco I'm using, possibly even a bit lighter. Gonna have to get some nickels for when I get this thing unboxed. :)
The Razer Black Widow may appear a bit stiffer to you in the beginning because the Blue Cherry MX switches need to break in a bit and wear down those plastic burrs.
Interesting enough some people think the Cherry Blue XM switches on a Black Widow are LIGHTER than other keyboard's.
The truth? Only the RipOmeter knows.
More reviews are dribbling in.
Most are of the "blah, blah, blah I'm a college student who can't write but I'll take a free keyboard" type of blogger review but this little snippet out of the Benchmark Reviews writeup (http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=442&Itemid=65) (yes another college student who has never used a Mechanical before) was interesting for this tidbit:
This is slick! Just think if the HHKB had that instead of silly 1960's DIP switches.
Welcome to geekhack, geekhack =)
I am surprised no one used that name yet!
You probably could just put some electrical tape on the inside of the "spermy logo" to subdue the light.
Towards the bottom of the keyboard there is that glowing spermy-medusa logo. I'm curious if anyone who has taken the board apart has any information on that logo window. Is it sealed?
If it isn't sealed, a replacement or black tape on the inside could at least minimize the logo a bit.
Also, has anyone tried replacement keycaps with the non-backlit version?
Towards the bottom of the keyboard there is that glowing spermy-medusa logo. I'm curious if anyone who has taken the board apart has any information on that logo window. Is it sealed?
If it isn't sealed, a replacement or black tape on the inside could at least minimize the logo a bit.
Anybody notice a difference with the 1000hz polling rate?
Anybody complaining that they wish they had PS/2 IRQ Old Skool latencies?
Thanks! I can't quite decide which it is more like...
More reviews are dribbling in.
Most are of the "blah, blah, blah I'm a college student who can't write but I'll take a free keyboard" type of blogger review but this little snippet out of the Benchmark Reviews writeup (http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=442&Itemid=65) (yes another college student who has never used a Mechanical before) was interesting for this tidbit:
This is slick! Just think if the HHKB had that instead of silly 1960's DIP switches.
The problem with this is that its bull****, unless they changed it for the Ultimate model, which I highly doubt. On the the default model if you do not have the drivers installed pushing the macro key does absolutely nothing.
Dude...you chose a username matching the name of the forum you're on?
...don't be that guy...Show Image(http://soberingconclusion.com/movies/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/pcu.jpg)
Why would you not install the driver? o.O
I've never signed up in a forum before .. I didn't know that picking the forum's name was a common practice by a certain type of person. I just picked the most memorable login for the website URL
If the keyboard had that capability it would likely be banned altogether from tournament play because there would be no way to ensure that you didn't record macros on it when you got there, barring filming the player's keyboard for the entire duration of every match.
The Razers keys on the non-illuminated are probably all replaceable. Sometimes large keys cause problems.
Check my new Yellow Filco/Rosewill/Das compatible WASDs - they'd fit but maybe the profile would be a bit off.
Plus - it would prove this thing has NVRAM somewhere in it. Some high end gaming mice (I believe from Razer too) does this.
That pic was hilarious!
There is a guy here named typo that just destroys keys. I'm beginning to think some people just have more acidic sweat or something.
And Lasered keys are NOT indestructable (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Das+S+Lasered+Keys+Versus+Filco+Pad+Printed+-+FIGHT) like the keyboard manufacturers like to claim, especially when it comes to acidic sweat.
Some Lasers don't even look that hot brand new.
We will refer this to the team in charge for their advice on the next course of action. please be patient and we will revert back to you as soon as there's updates. Thank you.
Hello,
We need to update you that we do not have any replacement keys to help you replace those keys. If you are still unsatisfied with the outlook of the product or problems on the keyboard, please do approach Saturn (your retailer) for an exchange. Thank you.
omg that signature is horrible. wtf is wrong with you.
Hello,
Can you please confirm the keyboard layout you have and to fill in the following?
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Your customer number is ...
Welcome to Geekhack. You might want to just start a new thread.
Have you checked out the "Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide" stickied above?
And I don't know where you heard Reds are the best for gaming. Everybody has different opinions on that. There is no "Perfect Switch" for gaming. I find the Cherry Reds too light. The Cherry Browns have a tactile point different than the activation point. The Cherry Blues have hysteresis. The Buckling Springs have hysteresis in spades. The ALPS are too stiff and grainy. The Cherry Blacks are also too stiff and I prefer SOME tactile feedback .
The PS3 DualShock for some reason I find just right. Lol.
Future of PC gaming is either Farmville or MineCraft. Neither I believe allows me to hijack cars and beat old ladies with a tire iron.
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