Edit: it appears that the heaviest Zilents and Boba U4s are sold out, much like the GMMK full size... I'm striking out all over the place aren't I?It's not just you, there are mass shortages all over and has been for a while now, it's both a great time and a terrible time in tech, more great choices than ever and at better prices than ever but you can't buy any of it because it's sold out.
So I got an almost immediate reply from Glorious, the GMMK should be in stock "early to mid April" so that's not too bad.Keep in mind they have a limited lifespan and if pushed in wrong, which is REALLY, REALLY easy to do, you can tear the hotswap right off the PCB (this causes massive trauma to the pcb). Not sure about GMMK and others, but Novelkeys recommends taking the keyboard apart to insert switches while holding the socket to the PCB. You will also want to make certain the pins are perfectly straight.
that opens up a whole world of switches and keycaps though. I might end up buying a couple different ones to play with, which I guess is the whole point of a hotswap board.
So I got an almost immediate reply from Glorious, the GMMK should be in stock "early to mid April" so that's not too bad.Keep in mind they have a limited lifespan and if pushed in wrong, which is REALLY, REALLY easy to do, you can tear the hotswap right off the PCB (this causes massive trauma to the pcb). Not sure about GMMK and others, but Novelkeys recommends taking the keyboard apart to insert switches while holding the socket to the PCB. You will also want to make certain the pins are perfectly straight.
that opens up a whole world of switches and keycaps though. I might end up buying a couple different ones to play with, which I guess is the whole point of a hotswap board.
Hot swap is nice but be gentle with it and don't expect it to last forever, if you consider them disposable it makes it a lot easier to judge how much you should be willing to spend on them.
You just proved I have a lot of research to do. I haven't heard of ANY of those switches... Last time I paid attention your options were various flavors of Cherry MX, Alps, and the occasional weirdo who liked Topres. I think Gateron switches were around but MX was "the" switch.
As for the sound, it's not so much me but it's my coworkers. Everyone's more or less OK with the clears, and I am too, just the availability (ish) of hotswappable boards means that experimenting with different key switches today is much easier than it was before and I haven't bought a new board in ages...
Edit: it appears that the heaviest Zilents and Boba U4s are sold out, much like the GMMK full size... I'm striking out all over the place aren't I?
Personally I would probably use some good two part epoxy. Less chance to melt something off with a hot glue gun plus it's pretty close to what the PCB is made from as well. But I agree, from the number of pictures I see here and on Reddit, the Kahlih hotswap socket design has some room for improvement. It is really too bad they didn't add some kind of clip that goes to the top of the pcb. But I figure that would just make it too difficult to do the smt assembly.So I got an almost immediate reply from Glorious, the GMMK should be in stock "early to mid April" so that's not too bad.Keep in mind they have a limited lifespan and if pushed in wrong, which is REALLY, REALLY easy to do, you can tear the hotswap right off the PCB (this causes massive trauma to the pcb). Not sure about GMMK and others, but Novelkeys recommends taking the keyboard apart to insert switches while holding the socket to the PCB. You will also want to make certain the pins are perfectly straight.
that opens up a whole world of switches and keycaps though. I might end up buying a couple different ones to play with, which I guess is the whole point of a hotswap board.
Hot swap is nice but be gentle with it and don't expect it to last forever, if you consider them disposable it makes it a lot easier to judge how much you should be willing to spend on them.
Now that I actually own a hotswap board, I should try taking the thing apart and reinforcing every single hotswap socket with some high temperature hot glue to increase the surface area of its contact with the PCB. I already knew that this stuff is practically as universally utilitarian/useful as duct tape (in liquid form) but I have even used the stuff to literally replace every single failed cheap plastic wall meant to hold threaded brass inserts (that hold a laptop hinge together) that's blown out. There are Chromebooks here that have had hinges held together by nothing more than high temperature hot glue for years now, and it has held up to abuse by the same user far better than the original design ... not that Dell's consumer-grade (I include their "education" crap in that category) laptops are known for their stellar engineering.
Edit: it appears that the heaviest Zilents and Boba U4s are sold out, much like the GMMK full size... I'm striking out all over the place aren't I?
Personally I would probably use some good two part epoxy. Less chance to melt something off with a hot glue gun plus it's pretty close to what the PCB is made from as well.If your hot glue gun can melt solder you might want to return it because it's defective.
You just proved I have a lot of research to do. I haven't heard of ANY of those switches... Last time I paid attention your options were various flavors of Cherry MX, Alps, and the occasional weirdo who liked Topres. I think Gateron switches were around but MX was "the" switch.
As for the sound, it's not so much me but it's my coworkers. Everyone's more or less OK with the clears, and I am too, just the availability (ish) of hotswappable boards means that experimenting with different key switches today is much easier than it was before and I haven't bought a new board in ages...
Edit: it appears that the heaviest Zilents and Boba U4s are sold out, much like the GMMK full size... I'm striking out all over the place aren't I?
You're basically still correct. The only major developments in switches are the optical ones, the hall effect ones, and the Kailh clickbar ones. Almost all the others are just variations on the MX design.
You just proved I have a lot of research to do. I haven't heard of ANY of those switches... Last time I paid attention your options were various flavors of Cherry MX, Alps, and the occasional weirdo who liked Topres. I think Gateron switches were around but MX was "the" switch.
As for the sound, it's not so much me but it's my coworkers. Everyone's more or less OK with the clears, and I am too, just the availability (ish) of hotswappable boards means that experimenting with different key switches today is much easier than it was before and I haven't bought a new board in ages...
Edit: it appears that the heaviest Zilents and Boba U4s are sold out, much like the GMMK full size... I'm striking out all over the place aren't I?
You're basically still correct. The only major developments in switches are the optical ones, the hall effect ones, and the Kailh clickbar ones. Almost all the others are just variations on the MX design.
Just to be perverse, I feel obligated to point out that the venerable Space Cadet had Honeywell (I think?) Hall effect switches.
I would, however, be very interested in knowing more about modern Hall effect switches...
As far as "vintage" pbt caps go, I really like my /dev/tty MT3 caps on my Test mule that I built out of a RedDraggon K556:
As far as a compact layout wit a full F row goes, I have been using one of these as my daily driver for a couple of months now:
It is based on an Austin layout with an extra row of F-keys. At this point, the only change I am thinking of making is swapping the home-end and pgup-pgdown keys.
There is a link to the IC thread down in my signature if you are interested. I believe there are currently some PCB kits available (print your own housing) and a full aluminum version should come later this year.
You say you're firm on full size keyboards... How do you feel about a 75% or TKL? You can easily layer a numpad in, and with the programmability options today, people can go down to a 40% and have full coverage and tons of more options. Full sized keyboards are getting more sparse, because many of the people that get really invested in the hobby dive deep and find they don't need/want the extra keys, or want the extra mouse space. I went from a full size -> 60% -> 40%, and I personally can't imagine myself using anything over 60% anymore (primarily because I would rather lube fewer switches, and I don't want to move my hands to use arrows).
I would recommend you get in on the recent budget hotswap keyboard craze that's been going on. GMMK Pro, NK65/NK87, KBDLite boards, Bauer Lite, Ikki68, Rama Kara, etc. There is actually a lot of price competition at that range, so you will get a lot of bang for your buck. As far as switches, I would look into the JWK (Durock, Everglide, etc) ones if you want a really smooth experience. For JWK tactiles, there is the T1 and the "medium tactile" switch, which is modeled after those MX clears.
You say you're firm on full size keyboards... How do you feel about a 75% or TKL? You can easily layer a numpad in, and with the programmability options today, people can go down to a 40% and have full coverage and tons of more options. Full sized keyboards are getting more sparse, because many of the people that get really invested in the hobby dive deep and find they don't need/want the extra keys, or want the extra mouse space. I went from a full size -> 60% -> 40%, and I personally can't imagine myself using anything over 60% anymore (primarily because I would rather lube fewer switches, and I don't want to move my hands to use arrows).
I would recommend you get in on the recent budget hotswap keyboard craze that's been going on. GMMK Pro, NK65/NK87, KBDLite boards, Bauer Lite, Ikki68, Rama Kara, etc. There is actually a lot of price competition at that range, so you will get a lot of bang for your buck. As far as switches, I would look into the JWK (Durock, Everglide, etc) ones if you want a really smooth experience. For JWK tactiles, there is the T1 and the "medium tactile" switch, which is modeled after those MX clears.
Thing is, I spend all day every day behind a keyboard at work, and I really do use all of the numpad, the nav cluster, and the F-keys (the latter because I do a lot of work in AutoCAD)
Especially the F-keys, asking me to do without those would literally be asking me to retrain my hands from 20+ years of muscle memory. At least AutoDesk hasn't changed the basic F-key toggles in that time.
I have considered an 1800 style layout and would be willing to give it a try. I think retraining myself to use the numpad nav layer probably makes the most sense about moving to a smaller format, and would be the least detrimental to my work. I'd consider a TKL behind that; there's lots of stuff I do that requires authentication with one or another 8 digit PIN and again, those are muscle memory on the numpad. I *could* deal with regular number keys, I guess, but I'd be slowed down for a while until I caught up. I less often work in spreadsheets where I use the numpad as well, that's less of a big deal as me doing manual data entry either means we have a new product (rarely happens) or something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
You say you're firm on full size keyboards... How do you feel about a 75% or TKL? You can easily layer a numpad in, and with the programmability options today, people can go down to a 40% and have full coverage and tons of more options. Full sized keyboards are getting more sparse, because many of the people that get really invested in the hobby dive deep and find they don't need/want the extra keys, or want the extra mouse space. I went from a full size -> 60% -> 40%, and I personally can't imagine myself using anything over 60% anymore (primarily because I would rather lube fewer switches, and I don't want to move my hands to use arrows).
I would recommend you get in on the recent budget hotswap keyboard craze that's been going on. GMMK Pro, NK65/NK87, KBDLite boards, Bauer Lite, Ikki68, Rama Kara, etc. There is actually a lot of price competition at that range, so you will get a lot of bang for your buck. As far as switches, I would look into the JWK (Durock, Everglide, etc) ones if you want a really smooth experience. For JWK tactiles, there is the T1 and the "medium tactile" switch, which is modeled after those MX clears.
Thing is, I spend all day every day behind a keyboard at work, and I really do use all of the numpad, the nav cluster, and the F-keys (the latter because I do a lot of work in AutoCAD)
Especially the F-keys, asking me to do without those would literally be asking me to retrain my hands from 20+ years of muscle memory. At least AutoDesk hasn't changed the basic F-key toggles in that time.
I have considered an 1800 style layout and would be willing to give it a try. I think retraining myself to use the numpad nav layer probably makes the most sense about moving to a smaller format, and would be the least detrimental to my work. I'd consider a TKL behind that; there's lots of stuff I do that requires authentication with one or another 8 digit PIN and again, those are muscle memory on the numpad. I *could* deal with regular number keys, I guess, but I'd be slowed down for a while until I caught up. I less often work in spreadsheets where I use the numpad as well, that's less of a big deal as me doing manual data entry either means we have a new product (rarely happens) or something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Not sure why you think they are hackjobs, but okay...
For clicky there's the new SSK and a remake of the Model F if you want buckling spring.
There's also hall effect and optical linears and tactiles (maybe clicky too?).
Are there any interesting options not including all these MX hackjob switches?you can always get topre or niz my friend
There's also hall effect and optical linears and tactiles (maybe clicky too?).Hall effect tactiles sounds fantastic, what switches are those?
Not sure why you think they are hackjobs, but okay...
For clicky there's the new SSK and a remake of the Model F if you want buckling spring.
There's also hall effect and optical linears and tactiles (maybe clicky too?).
Agreed Leslieann! Over time the buckling spring will always prevail!
There's also hall effect and optical linears and tactiles (maybe clicky too?).Hall effect tactiles sounds fantastic, what switches are those?
Not sure why you think they are hackjobs, but okay...
For clicky there's the new SSK and a remake of the Model F if you want buckling spring.
There's also hall effect and optical linears and tactiles (maybe clicky too?).
Agreed Leslieann! Over time the buckling spring will always prevail!
I actually have a Model M, it's just too loud to use in an office environment.I used a Unicomp with the floss mod in the office FWIW.
OK, so actually they don't exist. Thanks.There's also hall effect and optical linears and tactiles (maybe clicky too?).Hall effect tactiles sounds fantastic, what switches are those?
I don't know that any are in production yet.
Not sure why you think they are hackjobs, but okay...
For clicky there's the new SSK and a remake of the Model F if you want buckling spring.
There's also hall effect and optical linears and tactiles (maybe clicky too?).
Agreed Leslieann! Over time the buckling spring will always prevail!
I actually have a Model M, it's just too loud to use in an office environment. I actually used that at home for a while. I also tried an F XT but there was enough weird with it that I couldn't use it for work. Most notably the f keys to the left old school style, I couldn't get used to that.
I actually have a Model M, it's just too loud to use in an office environment.I used a Unicomp with the floss mod in the office FWIW.OK, so actually they don't exist. Thanks.There's also hall effect and optical linears and tactiles (maybe clicky too?).Hall effect tactiles sounds fantastic, what switches are those?
I don't know that any are in production yet.
The Model M was too loud but an F XT wasn't? Those things ping to high heaven. I use an F107 literally in the middle of a library. Nobody has ever minded, not that someone may never mind.
I love the f keys being over there. I never use them for anything other than POST hotkeys myself though.
The Model M was too loud but an F XT wasn't? Those things ping to high heaven. I use an F107 literally in the middle of a library. Nobody has ever minded, not that someone may never mind.
I love the f keys being over there. I never use them for anything other than POST hotkeys myself though.
I guess I was using some mental shorthand and what I was trying to say wasn't clear...
I used the M at home for work for a while, but stopped.
I also tried the F XT, but while I thought it was the best keyboard I've ever used from a feel standpoint, I could not deal with the F-keys. There's at least four that I use regularly for AutoCAD and the rest occasionally, and I have been working on a standard layout board for years. e.g. F3 = Osnap toggle, F8 = ortho toggle, F9 = snap toggle, F11 = Osnap tracking toggle I use the first three minute to minute as I'm working through the day. this is why I say I couldn't use the Model F.
Neither the M nor F would fly in my office environment. As we were doing mandatory WFH several days a week for a while I was having to seriously work on my WFH desk environment (which is really what kind of prompted the thought of buying another keyboard). I have some coworkers that are uber *****y about "noise" (not in my department thankfully.) I get snide comments that people can hear my typing on my Filco with clears, I'm sorry (not sorry) if you can't handle normal office noises, I wasn't hired to just sit here and be perfectly silent... I'm tempted to ditch the Filco and use one of the GI issue Dell rubber dome keyboards for a week or so just so they can really hear what a racket sounds like... I actually had to do that once for a while because the PKI card reader in my laptop had died and I needed some way to log in until the IT people could stop by and fix it (some of the Dell boards have built in card readers, and I have one of those stashed away for emergencies, if I or someone else in my department needs a backup card reader). The noise was actually pissing *me* off at that point, because there was no tactile reward for all that racket. Again sorry (not sorry) to *****y coworkers if you never learned to type with more than your index fingers...
Well then, don't fret and use a Model M keyboard. Their loss. It has nothing to do with the department you work in. Problem solved. If people in other departments are * about it, give THEM the finger.
I could have sworn someone had some but I don't follow them much.
I don't put much faith in any of these types of switches, not due to function but because of them being so proprietary. Trying to invade an open platform and try to close it off rarely works.
The Model M was too loud but an F XT wasn't? Those things ping to high heaven. I use an F107 literally in the middle of a library. Nobody has ever minded, not that someone may never mind.
I love the f keys being over there. I never use them for anything other than POST hotkeys myself though.
I guess I was using some mental shorthand and what I was trying to say wasn't clear...
I used the M at home for work for a while, but stopped.
I also tried the F XT, but while I thought it was the best keyboard I've ever used from a feel standpoint, I could not deal with the F-keys. There's at least four that I use regularly for AutoCAD and the rest occasionally, and I have been working on a standard layout board for years. e.g. F3 = Osnap toggle, F8 = ortho toggle, F9 = snap toggle, F11 = Osnap tracking toggle I use the first three minute to minute as I'm working through the day. this is why I say I couldn't use the Model F.
Neither the M nor F would fly in my office environment. As we were doing mandatory WFH several days a week for a while I was having to seriously work on my WFH desk environment (which is really what kind of prompted the thought of buying another keyboard). I have some coworkers that are uber *****y about "noise" (not in my department thankfully.) I get snide comments that people can hear my typing on my Filco with clears, I'm sorry (not sorry) if you can't handle normal office noises, I wasn't hired to just sit here and be perfectly silent... I'm tempted to ditch the Filco and use one of the GI issue Dell rubber dome keyboards for a week or so just so they can really hear what a racket sounds like... I actually had to do that once for a while because the PKI card reader in my laptop had died and I needed some way to log in until the IT people could stop by and fix it (some of the Dell boards have built in card readers, and I have one of those stashed away for emergencies, if I or someone else in my department needs a backup card reader). The noise was actually pissing *me* off at that point, because there was no tactile reward for all that racket. Again sorry (not sorry) to *****y coworkers if you never learned to type with more than your index fingers...
Well then, don't fret and use a Model M keyboard. Their loss. It has nothing to do with the department you work in. Problem solved. If people in other departments are * about it, give THEM the finger.
Well then, don't fret and use a Model M keyboard. Their loss. It has nothing to do with the department you work in. Problem solved. If people in other departments are * about it, give THEM the finger.
Hah. Actually for a while I was using my SGI Granite which was fine, but we got standing desks and the tray is too small to accommodate that and leave room for a mouse (almost exactly the same size/shape as a Model M) The Filco fits fine however, so pretty much any modern keyboard, even full size, will work.
My Granite is a PS/2 version. I also have a PS/2 Wyse board with blacks, but I don't use that one much. I need to find a good PS/2 to USB adapter for work because since I got a new laptop December before last, I haven't had a PS/2 port on the docking station, but I keep forgetting to order one. Probably just order another converter like the one I use for my F XT because it's so flexible, the cost isn't much more than a basic one and I'm pretty sure I have XT to AT adapters somewhere for just this reason.
Well, today I checked and finally the GMMK was in stock, so I pulled the trigger, bought a set of Pandas as well, and will keep looking for keycaps. Dunno if the pandas will end up being user switches, but I gotta start somewhere. Also bought the Gateron/Kailh sampler. Will put some old school Cherry dye sub caps on unless/until I decide to pull the trigger on something cooler.
Am tempted to try these even though they're not really what I want, they are pretty cool looking
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WV48W6C
I would totally get the dev/tty set EXCEPT it doesn't have the nav layer printed on the numpad. That is literally my only issue with it besides the price.
Well, today I checked and finally the GMMK was in stock, so I pulled the trigger, bought a set of Pandas as well, and will keep looking for keycaps. Dunno if the pandas will end up being user switches, but I gotta start somewhere. Also bought the Gateron/Kailh sampler. Will put some old school Cherry dye sub caps on unless/until I decide to pull the trigger on something cooler.well, Drop has some MT3 keycaps set with 20% discount right now my friend, maybe you'll be interested. I just got the jukebox one for vins vibes lol
Am tempted to try these even though they're not really what I want, they are pretty cool looking
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WV48W6C
I would totally get the dev/tty set EXCEPT it doesn't have the nav layer printed on the numpad. That is literally my only issue with it besides the price.
I think Glorious puts a bit of lube on the stabs, they've also been making small changes each batch making them better and better each time so they may be better than when I got mine. Chances are if you lube and band-aid mod they can get even better.
It's amazing what you can get for the money in a keyboard today compared to not even 10 years ago.
Glad you're happy with it.
For caps, they may not be the prettiest, I've come to really like the HK Gaming sets on Amazon. Cheap, thick PBT and comes with enough caps to cover/fit pretty much any board I own. The 9009 set works great with the rgb backlight as they act like a blank slate you can add a splash of (rgb) color to without being over the top. I wasn't sure about the texture, almost powdery smooth, but it grew on me and they never feel greasy. The only downside is the bottom of the caps can be a bit sharp on a low profile board like the GMMK but that's livable or fixable for what you get. There's a couple shot of them here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45475.msg2994265#msg2994265) on my NK65.
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)
I haven't seen them available yet, although they've been recommended before.
After playing with the sampler switches, I'm thinking I might like the Kailh purples, as they feel very much like the Pandas but seem to have a spring that rises in force when you get close to bottoming out. May end up ordering a set of those to try unless someone can recommend something better? Not that the Pandas are bad, I'm just trying to take advantage of the hotswap and try a few different switches that are close to what I like.
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)
I haven't seen them available yet, although they've been recommended before.
After playing with the sampler switches, I'm thinking I might like the Kailh purples, as they feel very much like the Pandas but seem to have a spring that rises in force when you get close to bottoming out. May end up ordering a set of those to try unless someone can recommend something better? Not that the Pandas are bad, I'm just trying to take advantage of the hotswap and try a few different switches that are close to what I like.
nice, ill have to check those out myself
dailyclack (australian vendor but shipping to usa apparently isnt that bad) and aliexpress both have the boba switches in stock
nice, ill have to check those out myself
dailyclack (australian vendor but shipping to usa apparently isnt that bad) and aliexpress both have the boba switches in stock
Interesting. It appears the U4s are dampened, does that mean for bottoming out? Do they otherwise feel like the Pandas? If so this is a real contender for "next switch to try".
I just found out I'll be working crazy OT for the next few weeks, so I went ahead and ordered the dev/tty keycaps. We'll see if I can deal without the nav layer on the numpad. They are so darn cool otherwise.
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)
I haven't seen them available yet, although they've been recommended before.
After playing with the sampler switches, I'm thinking I might like the Kailh purples, as they feel very much like the Pandas but seem to have a spring that rises in force when you get close to bottoming out. May end up ordering a set of those to try unless someone can recommend something better? Not that the Pandas are bad, I'm just trying to take advantage of the hotswap and try a few different switches that are close to what I like.
I use Kailh Pro Purples on an alum. hotswap board. They're great for that purpose, especially with PBT keycaps. [I use Varmilo.]
They are loud, though. And Holy Pandas are even louder.
This is because the Holy Pandas are a long-stem design. The long stem of the Halo-type stem slams into the lower housing, which originally wasn't designed for it. This produces the characteristic 'thock,' and it is even louder than regular MX tactiles.
It's a popular design, but others have been guiding you to the Boba U4. There's a reason for this.
The U4 Boba is a 'high-tactility' large-bump tactile, similar in concept to the Holy Pandas. The U4 has its own 'loud' equivalent, the U4T [Thock], which is not dissimilar to a Holy Panda. [The whole design is inspired by the Pandas].
So if you want a silent Panda, the closest thing right now is the U4 Boba switch. They are so close in concept, that you can put a Halo [Holy] stem in a Boba housing, and get something very much like Holy Pandas [I think they may be better than Holy Pandas].
So just get a stock U4 Boba in 62 G or 68 G or whatever. They are robust tactiles that are much quieter than Holy Panda. They do employ bumpers on the stem, as you suggested. In a properly-silenced design, they are as quiet or quieter than an office rubber-dome. The only stock factory board that silences them properly so far, in my experience, is the Archon AK87/89 series. Although it is possible to silence other factory hotswap keyboards.
Yeah, saving money is not really part of custom keyboards.
But the U4 Boba is a very tactile switch, by MX standards. Certainly no MX Brown. People often liken it to 45 G Topre or Niz domes. Whatever the case, it's pretty close to a silenced Panda or T1.
So if you're looking for a tactile for an office keyboard that is around what a Holy Panda is like, this is it.
But after using the set every day for about six weeks, the mouse still performs great and is whisper quiet, however the keyboard is just as loud now as my original Logitech keyboard. This is only observed on the main typing area of the keyboard, and keys that I don't use as often (in my case the number pad, F keys, and number row) are all still as quiet as when the board was brand new. So, clearly whatever the "silent touch" technology is, it doesn't hold up with moderate to high usage. So, if you're typing your novel, or doing any coding/programming, transcription, documenting, as your day to day work, this technology does not hold up.
Update after using for 7 weeks:
I feel like the keyboard has gotten a tad louder. I type away at around 80 WPM for 6 hours a day and I feel like the keyboard lost it’s “silence”. The key strokes are pretty audible now :(
Once this is done I very well may pack away all my old boards and just keep the Filco and GMMK out as backup and user respectively. Might even sell some we will see. I know that the value of the Model F has gone up now that converters are readily available. Which reminds me I need to order a couple more so that I can occasionally try all my old boards.
It seems so quaint that I used to buy cheap vintage boards just to try different switches...
Once this is done I very well may pack away all my old boards and just keep the Filco and GMMK out as backup and user respectively. Might even sell some we will see. I know that the value of the Model F has gone up now that converters are readily available. Which reminds me I need to order a couple more so that I can occasionally try all my old boards.
Even just a year ago you could find an F XT for less than $100 with some patience. Capacitive buckling spring prices have really ballooned out of control pretty recently. It makes me wish I had picked up even more F ATs ... not that I really need as many Model Fs as I have to begin with.
If you sell any, I wouldn't mind another NEC blue oval board. I could use a parts Space Invaders board too since I recently sent one of the springs from mine into orbit.
It seems so quaint that I used to buy cheap vintage boards just to try different switches...
I do that more than buying anything new, and keep converters everywhere.
I'll be interested to hear your impressions when you go back through all of the old switch types you have and compare them to your new MX clones, unless you mean just old boards with MX switches in them.
It seems so quaint that I used to buy cheap vintage boards just to try different switches...
I do that more than buying anything new, and keep converters everywhere.
I'll be interested to hear your impressions when you go back through all of the old switch types you have and compare them to your new MX clones, unless you mean just old boards with MX switches in them.
A little bit of both. I have MX clear, brown, blue, and black in various boards, as well as a Model F, two Model Ms, and a SGI Granite. Also a new Keychron with Gateron browns. At one point I had an old AEK and a Dell QuietKey as well but I let those go years back. The former, because even with the then available ADB converter it was too laggy for me to use on a PC (IMHO)
Of all of those I think I like the IBMs and the Granite the best as far as feel goes, the latter being most suitable for office work. That's going to be my benchmark I think for how I like the new switches. I'm still using the board with Pandas as a daily now as a lot of people are still working from home and I lent a new hire my Filco/clears to set his desk up (transfer from field, I consider the guy a friend - I'm not completely insane) The problem with the older boards is we have standing desks with keyboard trays in the office, and a Granite doesn't leave enough space there to use a mouse as well. A Filco or GMMK fits fine however even a 104, so that's the reason for my interest in finding a MX format switch that I like the best.
buy topre keyboard and leave hobby forever
buy topre keyboard and leave hobby foreverDidn't work for me.
buy topre keyboard and leave hobby forever
To each their own.
Now the question is, do I use the red ESC thus making people likely notice the keeb and think it might be special, or go stealth?
Now the question is, do I use the red ESC thus making people likely notice the keeb and think it might be special, or go stealth?
Are you worried someone might take it and walk? If so, I would go stealth. I used a Corsair K70 at work for years, and I put black gaffer tape over the Corsair logo. That was partly because it was the ugliest logo they ever used, but also partly because I work in a school district and know that students would instantly recognize it as a mechanical board just walking past. I also turned the backlighting off completely.
Now the question is, do I use the red ESC thus making people likely notice the keeb and think it might be special, or go stealth?
Are you worried someone might take it and walk? If so, I would go stealth. I used a Corsair K70 at work for years, and I put black gaffer tape over the Corsair logo. That was partly because it was the ugliest logo they ever used, but also partly because I work in a school district and know that students would instantly recognize it as a mechanical board just walking past. I also turned the backlighting off completely.
I'm not worried at all about someone taking it, it's more that there's one individual in particular here who doesn't like our department because we're "loud" and I don't really feel like giving any ammo to antagonize. That said, I've had a Filco with blue/grey dye subs on my desk the entire time I've been here up until I got the GMMK. I have had a few comments about it because you definitely can hear me typing because I'm one of the few people here who actually can touch type, but I can tell you with assurance that when I needed to borrow an old Dell dome board (because my PKI card reader in my laptop died, and I needed to log into some secure areas) that that racket was pissing ME off, so it's not the keyboard...
As for the combo of the Bobas and the GMMK - well, it looks, feels, and sounds pure class. Yes, this is now an approximately $250 keyboard. (yikes!) It also accomplishes what I wanted to do with my Filco far better than that board ever did.Awesome! :thumb:
One question - is there a ready source for ultra-stiff springs? I think I would like to do what Cherry did back in the day and put a stiffer spring in the space bar switch. I want to say it was a grey switch there in a board with clears, and I'm used to that feel having used it for 10 years now.
Again, thanks to all for following along, and especially to @Maledicted for pushing the Bobas - at this point it's going to take a lot to impress me beyond these switches. I think the only question at this point is do I keep the switches I have or try the 68g springs when they come in. I'm a really happy camper right now.
Awesome! :thumb:
Some of that is progress but some is also just how you assembled it.
Yes, you can get springs, I often usually use Novelkeys springs which I think are just discounted Sprit, there is also TX springs. Probably a few others.
You could also just order a switch sample pack that has a switch with a stiffer spring and pull a spring, then you get to experiment a bit and get a stiffer spring. This is my preferred way to get just a single spring as I often buy packs of various switches to try. Just beware Box and Alps springs will not work.
For your space bar, check and make sure the spacebar is straight, some are warped and can cause what you're seeing.
I looked up NovelKeys and see that their springs are $10/100, that would be fine to get me the feel that I want but what do I do with the other 99 springs? Sell them in 5-packs to people too cheap to buy two packs for a full size board? :PYou're feeling the grease settle and yeah, you can feel it.
So today my Bobas showed up. These are the 62g ones, with the clear "RGB" tops.
THANK YOU. These are perfect. Super silent. Quite tactile. I may not need heavier springs in fact, although if they don't break in I may take this apart again and lube the switches. I feel just enough scratchiness to be worth mentioning. The /dev/tty caps look amazing too. No pics yet because I still have some fine tuning to do.
So today my Bobas showed up. These are the 62g ones, with the clear "RGB" tops.
THANK YOU. These are perfect. Super silent. Quite tactile. I may not need heavier springs in fact, although if they don't break in I may take this apart again and lube the switches. I feel just enough scratchiness to be worth mentioning. The /dev/tty caps look amazing too. No pics yet because I still have some fine tuning to do.
I'm glad it worked out!
Cutting the pins off switches is routine by now, especially with 3-pin hotswap. Fortunately, the newest hotswap keyboards have 5-pin hotswap, so cutting of pins is no longer necessary with those.
Bent pins are also common, but many stores ship things properly.
U4 Bobas are great switches, but they do have inherent shuffling and friction inside because of the dampening and the tactility. The good news, as you've noticed, is that Bobas actually do become a little smoother and less resistant over time.
Silent tactiles have come a long way, and the Bobas are the most modern design. So you came in at the right time. Since you prefer higher weights and stiffness, you're in luck because that's easy. It's harder to make the U4 Boba softer and lighter, because there are limits, but there's nothing untowards about putting a 78 G spring or something in a Boba.
Thanks for reporting that the Bobas are quiet in a GMMK. Haven't tried that yet. They aren't quiet enough for me in a stock Rakk Lam Ang Pro, but they are pretty quiet in an Archon AK89.
I wish I could help you with your spacebar issue, but sadly I don't have experience in that regard. Hopefully someone can chime in if you post images. As for springs, you might want to buy a TX spring sampler. I wish I had, as it would have saved me money in the long-run.
Haha, yes, the bane of my existence! That Leopolds and Varmilos don't come with Ergo Clears, Bobas, Jades, Durock Medium Tactiles, etc...!
You're right, things have come a LONG way in the last few years apparently! It's too bad this isn't a "mainstream" switch that you can just buy in a new Filco, Leopold, etc. keyboard like the typical MX Black/Blue/Brown, but it deserves to be.
Congratulations on a board you like even more than your old Filco. I can't take credit for recommending Bobas, I have never tried them myself. I haven't found enough of a reason to try the more boutique MX tactiles, with my tastes.You're right, things have come a LONG way in the last few years apparently! It's too bad this isn't a "mainstream" switch that you can just buy in a new Filco, Leopold, etc. keyboard like the typical MX Black/Blue/Brown, but it deserves to be.
I think most of the best switches available are not commonly available in OEM boards, unfortunately. Are there even any boards that offer box jades yet? Clicky box boards are almost always box white, for some inexplicable reason. I think most people looking at companies like Filco and Leopold are probably still predominantly first time mechanical users who haven't even tried the 3 major switch types yet, much less have any inclination of which switches they may prefer, just like the gaming board brands ... just to a lesser degree. If Cherry switches sell, than those are what the big name OEMs will keep putting in their boards.
If you do use that new board for a period of time, and then use the SGI board for a period of time, and update this thread with your impressions, I may be motivated to give MX boutiques more of a chance.
I have a bunch of Matias boards you could try, if you're near Wisconsin. I think this V80 I'm using right now might be the only one that still has unmolested dampened tactiles in it though.
I cannot get the keyswitch out with the stabilizers (Cherry) in place, but I can't remove the stabilizer without removing the keyswitch. Any help? I'm thinking I may need to make or purchase a different switch puller; none of the ones I have will sneak in between the switch and stabilizer to hit the latches.
Went in to work today, here it is in semi final form and in its intended space.Good looking keycaps, almost no extra footprint. Nice.Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210508/4182fa6284504cbd61a87d1b5a6419a1.jpg)
Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk
Went in to work today, here it is in semi final form and in its intended space.Good looking keycaps, almost no extra footprint. Nice.Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210508/4182fa6284504cbd61a87d1b5a6419a1.jpg)
Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk
I have the Keychron C2 that I originally bought, as well as now I have the first set of Bobas that I ordered. Am thinking that I should pick up a different but also cool set of keycaps and make that into another good board, although the devil on my shoulder says that I could pick up another barebones GMMK for $55 which would have a much sturdier feel and use the parts on that instead.