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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: hyperlinked on Sun, 15 August 2010, 17:08:46
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I've got a friend who's shopping for a decent low end desktop PC. She's currently on something like a Dell with a Pentium II or something similarly outdated. She obviously doesn't need any sort of blazing system.
Any of you have some good recs on decent quality desktops in the $400 and under range that you could recommend? The specs of the machine are less important than overall durability and a company that provides at least some modest level of customer service would be a big bonus. This is a machine that needs to last her for 5+ years and should have a chance of still being a usable low-end system several years from now.
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You good with building something for her?
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You good with building something for her?
I'm looking for a pre-built system. My hardware skills are light and I don't have the time to build something anyway. I also don't want to get stuck supporting this PC if it has issues a few months from now.
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With manufactured stuff, it's very much a case of 'pick your poison'. They're all the same thing, they all probably come from the same factory, and for every good story about their customer service you hear, you'll hear a bad one from elsewhere.
Tbh, as sacrilege as it may be to people who have half a clue about computers, I always tell people to buy a Dell if they want a recommendation for a machine - I guess it's a sort of "Nobody gets fired for buying IBM" attitude I have towards the thing.
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With manufactured stuff, it's very much a case of 'pick your poison'. They're all the same thing, they all probably come from the same factory, and for every good story about their customer service you hear, you'll hear a bad one from elsewhere.
Tbh, as sacrilege as it may be to people who have half a clue about computers, I always tell people to buy a Dell if they want a recommendation for a machine - I guess it's a sort of "Nobody gets fired for buying IBM" attitude I have towards the thing.
Yep, anything will do likely easiest is to find one with best warantty... Not too many differences in that price range.
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If she's going for prebuilt PCs, then there aren't any *good* options. Dell likes to use shoddy motherboards using a BTX form factor so you have to buy from them when they fail. HPs tend to overheat like mofos. Acer have a very high failure rate. eMachines has solved their PSU troubles but I've heard their customer support is crap. All of the major OEMs are equally mediocre in different ways.
If she's willing to spend $500 shipped and wait a couple weeks I can build something and provide a year of support. Real technical support; I can actually diagnose **** instead of reading off a card, though I can't afford to replace it if the whole thing goes kaboom. It'd be a Sempron system with 2GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, Windows 7, SeaSonic 300W PSU.
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If she's willing to spend $500 shipped and wait a couple weeks I can build something and provide a year of support. Real technical support; I can actually diagnose **** instead of reading off a card, though I can't afford to replace it if the whole thing goes kaboom. It'd be a Sempron system with 2GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, Windows 7, SeaSonic 300W PSU.
It's just strange how powerfull todays cheap systems look like in old context, 500GB and 2GB ram... Just crazy a couple years back... Likely, in normal use they will last, if not newest stuff isn't wanted in software department...
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Something better. I have old parts lying around. An X2 5200 with a heatsink on an Asus mATX board with 1GB of DDR2 RAM and onboard graphics (some kind of Nvidia slop, GeForce 6000 onboard perhaps). I can provide the parts, Phaedrus can build it if he wants.
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I'm not sure which is better, an Athlon64 X2 5200 or Sempron 140. The Sempron is certainly far lower power consumption. The Athlon is probably a little better though. I do normally recommend DDR3 for new systems though, DDR2 is only going to rise in price as DDR3 becomes the standard, so it's best to jump on the bandwagon now rather than later. That means AM3, which means forward CPU compatibility.
Hm, will an Athlon64 work in an AM3 socket?
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I'm not sure which is better, an Athlon64 X2 5200 or Sempron 140. The Sempron is certainly far lower power consumption. The Athlon is probably a little better though. I do normally recommend DDR3 for new systems though, DDR2 is only going to rise in price as DDR3 becomes the standard, so it's best to jump on the bandwagon now rather than later. That means AM3, which means forward CPU compatibility.
Hm, will an Athlon64 work in an AM3 socket?
I agree with all your points except for the fact that there is absolutely no reason to future-proof this computer, since Hyperlinked even mentioned that a Pentium II rig is currently sufficient.
Hyperlinked, you can take a look at these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103267
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883114085
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883114086
Regardless of how garbage prebuilt computers are, if she's not going to play 11 hours of modern FPSes on it a day, it should be fine. I understand the quality concerns of pre-built computers (and I wouldn't buy one myself) but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of those for, say, my grandmother.
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I've got a friend who's shopping for a decent low end desktop PC. She's currently on something like a Dell with a Pentium II or something similarly outdated. She obviously doesn't need any sort of blazing system.
Any of you have some good recs on decent quality desktops in the $400 and under range that you could recommend? The specs of the machine are less important than overall durability and a company that provides at least some modest level of customer service would be a big bonus. This is a machine that needs to last her for 5+ years and should have a chance of still being a usable low-end system several years from now.
If you have a Microcenter (http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?sortby=pricelow&N=4294967292) around, there are worse places to look for a low-end PC. Powerspec, eMachines, Acer, other new and many refurbished brands. And at least where I live, the sales folks aren't terrible to get decent recommendations from.
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Here's a cheap comp for $100:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-IntelliStation-Z-Pro-Workstation-Xeon-3-6GHz-1gb-73-/130420540440?pt=COMP_EN_Workstations (http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-IntelliStation-Z-Pro-Workstation-Xeon-3-6GHz-1gb-73-/130420540440?pt=COMP_EN_Workstations)
IntelliStation Z Pro, 3.6 Ghz Xeon (upgradeable to two). 8 GB Max RAM, & 70 GB SCSI HDD.
Done & done.
EDIT:
here are also some computer + 19" LCD combos:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-M51-3GHz-2GB-250GB-DVD-RW-XP-PRO-19-INCH-LCD-/250450799993?pt=Desktop_PCs (http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-M51-3GHz-2GB-250GB-DVD-RW-XP-PRO-19-INCH-LCD-/250450799993?pt=Desktop_PCs)
http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-Thinkcentre-M55-8811-95U-Tower-IBM-19-LCD-SYSTEM-/260351050092?pt=Desktop_PCs (http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-Thinkcentre-M55-8811-95U-Tower-IBM-19-LCD-SYSTEM-/260351050092?pt=Desktop_PCs)
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Here's a cheap comp for $100:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-IntelliStation-Z-Pro-Workstation-Xeon-3-6GHz-1gb-73-/130420540440?pt=COMP_EN_Workstations (http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-IntelliStation-Z-Pro-Workstation-Xeon-3-6GHz-1gb-73-/130420540440?pt=COMP_EN_Workstations)
IntelliStation Z Pro, 3.6 Ghz Xeon (upgradeable to two). 8 GB Max RAM, & 70 GB SCSI HDD.
Done & done.
Can't care to look for specs, but does that one have PATA or SATA? Onces that 10k SCSI dies...
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Hey, that's cool of you to offer that Phaedrus. I'll put the offer of a custom built system on the table for her. I'll have to see what she's comfortable with. I don't actually know her that well. She's actually a customer of mine and is a very low end PC user. She has an AOL account and may have only recently finally moved off of dial-up.
She's not your typical AOL user though. I built her a website six years ago and she's been doing a pretty impressive job of maintaining the content herself all this time. She got stuck with garbage and has just gotten used to it and might actually be able to take a step forward if she has something that's not garbage.
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Can't care to look for specs, but does that one have PATA or SATA? Onces that 10k SCSI dies...
Oh yeah, IBM always puts SATA in as well (above & beyond I always say). I was running a SCSI, SATA and IDE HDDs on my intellistation at one point: but yeah, things got sticky so I just use the SCSI.
I don't think it's going to die though, and if it does, you can still buy ultra 320 SCSI drives.
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Well, we might be able to do it cheaper than $500 if Gr1m contributes the mobo/ram/cpu. He gets paid a fair value for them+shipping, then I order a case, PSU, HDD, and Windows 7 off Newegg, stick in an extra 2GB DDR2 I have sitting around, then ship it. Might get it down to $450.
Or Gr1m could just cut me out of the equation, but whatever. :p
EDIT: Oh, and I have an Earthwatts EA430 I could use for the PSU.
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Na, since I won't be down for the tech support stuff and assembly (since shipping an assembled rig would be suicide from Canadistan). I'm just gonna sell the mobo and CPU for very cheap, you get it and do whatever you want with it. If that works for you and Hyperlinked, I'm fine with it. Name your price. It's been rotting in my closet for about a year so I won't be expecting crazy amounts for it.
Oh, and the RAM.
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Hm, that would work, but I'd appreciate you testing it for functionality first. But would $50+shipping sound fair to you?
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Yeah, I'll test it. $50+shipping sounds fine. I even have the DVD drive if it's any use.
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Sure, I was planning on budgeting that. Call it $55 then. ;)
And let's see, I'll do some basic config, put a decent AV and MalwareBytes on there, FireFox instead of IE (unless she really wants to use IE), and instructions to blow it out with compressed air once a year. That should work out well all around. Depending on shipping costs I might even get it down to $400.
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Wow, I'm blown away by how everyone's trying to help me with this. Thanks!
I have to talk to this person first and I actually don't know when she'd be ready to buy something. She is probably at least weeks away from replacing her computer. Don't put in too much effort into helping me make this happen just yet. I don't want anyone to put more than a few minutes into this on my behalf until I can get a better idea of how committed she is.
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scour coupon sites like
slickdeals.net or other coupon sites
(or i can pm you if you'd like,if i remember)
for when dell has coupon codes for their dell out
usually it's 15-20% off most of the time it's a code for everyone, sometimes it'll be a one time use only email code.
something like this(this will probably be gone but you get an idea of what dell can give you for 430ish bucks)
http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/SecondaryInventorySearch.aspx?rn=4670&SC=&c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh
See the thing about a prebuilt system like many have said is the tech support and issues, i'm known as the tech/geek guy for family/friends. For the first few years i was like yea cool, lemme come over and yada yada... then it got old. So i just say dell, if you break it down component wise it's probably a 10% net over what you can get from building yourself at newegg(don't forget dell ships free too).
if not that and you want coupons try e-junkie.com
i've never used them for dell coupons, but i have used them at least 3x to get unique/one time use staples coupons. I mean these staples coupons are like 2/3bucks and it's 25 off 75, so you basically get 22$ off really (and they email you the code right away).
here's one coupon now
http://www.e-junkie.com/shop/product/437595.php
but i highly recommend a dell/hp (whatever) builds it for her, tech supporting for free gets old after the first 10 years.
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but i highly recommend a dell/hp (whatever) builds it for her, tech supporting for free gets old after the first 10 years.
That's why I usually limit it to one year, then some sage advice, then you're on your own. :tongue:
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Install linux on the PentiumII and it will be running as fast as a new pc. My Pentium I is still usable as an everyday PC...
*Hides behind chair*
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Install linux on the PentiumII and it will be running as fast as a new pc. My Pentium I is still usable as an everyday PC...
*Hides behind chair*
Ubuntu 10.04 does run quite nicely on my Athlon XP system. Probably too taxing for a Pentium II though. She'd need Puppy Linux or barebones Debian or something. Hardly user friendly.
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I would recommend getting her a used computer, something in the 2004-2005 range, a 2.4 Ghz-3Ghz, 1GB RAM kind of deal. With Windows 2000 or XP, it'll be a perfectly good machine for daily use for many years to come.
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Well, it turns out that she just wants to get a Dell after all. I gave her a list of options including some custom builds and the overwhelming number of choices was too much so she just decided to pick something from Dell, which is the make of PC she'd be replacing. Thanks for your help though everyone.
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Ugh. Don't buy Dell. Buy HP.
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Well, it turns out that she just wants to get a Dell after all. I gave her a list of options including some custom builds and the overwhelming number of choices was too much so she just decided to pick something from Dell, which is the make of PC she'd be replacing. Thanks for your help though everyone.
Dell... well, after it catches on fire, I know where to find a lot of good IBMs.
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Dell... well, after it catches on fire, I know where to find a lot of good IBMs.
Lenovo just posted 55million in profits.
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Dell... well, after it catches on fire, I know where to find a lot of good IBMs.
Yeah, perhaps ask Alan Cox whether his ThinkPad (http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/22/another-thinkpad-battery-explodes/) is available for sale.
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Drat, too late! But if anyone else is looking cheap pc's it looks like geeks.com has a bunch of machines in the mid- to higher end p4's going for about 100-150 with various acoutrements. There are some barebones deals too. Looks like for about 200 you could even do better:
(refurbished)P4's (http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=813)
Barebones (http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=801)
AMD Athlon / Sempron Computers (http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=796)
Core 2/Duo in the $220 neighborhood (http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=1076)
Pentium D(Dual Core) under $200 (http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=939)
I like Geeks - they often have some outrageous sales. I once got about 6 of the ez cd/dvd dispenser doohickeys for like a buck apeice. (Which, btw, I also highly recommend if you do a lot of burning like I do; got one for each kind of media now: cd/dvd/lightscribe/DL/etc. I love those things- much better than futzing with the cakeboxes all the time.)
EDIT>> Good God! (Just checked out the exploding Thinkpad) While I learned my lesson in buying prefab rigs, that is a good reminder to watch out for counterfeit/sub par elcheapo components. Phaedrus' contributed knowledge via marvelous guides was essential in my education concerning quality PSU's
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My honest advise would be to go to a local Best Buy and buy the best system (from a specs standpoint) that you can find for $500 (you'll have lots of options). Have her check with her credit card provider...many will double the manufacturer's warranty up to 5 years.
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I'd recommend sticking with the PII and just re-installing Windows (Windows NT would run great on that). It's surprising how much you can get done with an old computer. I've been using my Pentium computer a lot more as my main machine (200Mhz, 64MB of RAM) and it runs pretty good with a fresh new installation of Windows.
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My honest advise would be to go to a local Best Buy and buy the best system (from a specs standpoint) that you can find for $500 (you'll have lots of options). Have her check with her credit card provider...many will double the manufacturer's warranty up to 5 years.
Likewise. It's all the same **** if you are just looking for a new OEM that runs, and buying from a local box store means you have someone to throw it at when it stops working. Also, good idea with the CC. Im surprised more people don't know all the various benefits you get when putting things on your CC.
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Just get whatever is the hot special from Dell/HP in the following price ranges. It's just not worth spending less on a new system, you really sacrifice quality if you do. If you are short, do what it takes to come up with enough to get to these price points. That's my 2 cents.
Desktop with monitor - spend $500ish
Desktop without monitor - spend $400ish
Laptop - spend $550-750ish
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Likewise. It's all the same **** if you are just looking for a new OEM that runs, and buying from a local box store means you have someone to throw it at when it stops working. Also, good idea with the CC. Im surprised more people don't know all the various benefits you get when putting things on your CC.
I suppose that's true - The only time I ever had anything I purchased break on me it happened to be the HDD on the VAIO - it went three weeks before the (non-extended) warranty expired. I just took it to the compusa and they took care of everything with very little hassle. Lucky though, because if it had happened much later it would have cost me several hundred just for the drive, never mind someone to install it and transfer all the crap. Although I guess I would've probably done it myself anyway, with it being under warranty I didn't have to, and also saved me the PITA of diagnosing it as the problem to begin with. Still it's highly unlikely I will ever buy a pre-built machine again since I will only end up disassembling it eventually anyways... I think once you get over the "void if broken" seal on the case screw of your pc, you should get an official "geek" card.
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I suppose that's true - The only time I ever had anything I purchased break on me it happened to be the HDD on the VAIO - it went three weeks before the (non-extended) warranty expired. I just took it to the compusa and they took care of everything with very little hassle. Lucky though, because if it had happened much later it would have cost me several hundred just for the drive, never mind someone to install it and transfer all the crap. Although I guess I would've probably done it myself anyway, with it being under warranty I didn't have to, and also saved me the PITA of diagnosing it as the problem to begin with. Still it's highly unlikely I will ever buy a pre-built machine again since I will only end up disassembling it eventually anyways... I think once you get over the "void if broken" seal on the case screw of your pc, you should get an official "geek" card.
I literally meant that you could throw it at them, as both they, and your newly broken PC, will probably be useless. It was kind of a reference to the fact that, with ANY OEM, your chances of failure are about the same. If nothing ****s the bed, then you are good to go. If something does, oh well. That's life.
But it would still beat putting it in the mail to Dell...
Also, my wife has managed to drop every laptop she has ever own, once per. Each time, HDD replacement. It costs next to nothing, and is easy as cake to install. I just gave her my macbook, so Im sure a new HDD is just around the corner...
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Huh? Weak drives I presume?
My laptop (5 year old Dell Inspiron 630m) has hit the tile floor from a 3-4 foot fall at least 4 times, still going strong.
Just luck of the drop I guess. She always drops on an edge, but I really don't think that matters. I also don't think there is such a thing as a "weak" HDD. A head crash is a head crash. Im not sure if the macbook has an accelerometer in it, but that would be nice...
Also, to clarify, it has really only happened twice.
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Huh? Weak drives I presume?
My laptop (5 year old Dell Inspiron 630m) has hit the tile floor from a 3-4 foot fall at least 4 times, still going strong.
My fiance's company gave all the employee's a company backpack to use(it's a good bag) and the laptop compartment is side loaded. While it's nice that it seperates everything, lots of ppl forget to zip up the side bag and when they swing the bag, laptop falls out. I remember she told me this and at a company dinner i went to the IT guy and asked him about it, and he's said he hasn't had to replace a laptop from dropping in the past 2 years.(stolen, spyware, general failure... all that eh has done). Dell inspirions.
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Huh? Weak drives I presume?
My laptop (5 year old Dell Inspiron 630m) has hit the tile floor from a 3-4 foot fall at least 4 times, still going strong.
My old Micron laptop (a TransPort GX) has been through just about everything too. It's bee dropped, abused, and beat up for ten years and it still runs great.
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My office tends to buy the worst, cheapest PCs imaginable.
Big warnings:
1) Many of the super-small towers take only half-height cards. A real ***** if you need a replacement video card, for example.
2) Get dual-core; if nothing else, the reduced binding pays for the 10 dollar premium.
In my office, the X2 4200+ I built in late 2006 is the nicest PC; there was a Core 2 E6400, but it died and was cannibalized for parts for the collection of Semprons, Celerons, and a Pentium 4 3.20.