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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ThirdLap on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:02:37

Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ThirdLap on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:02:37: I had a guy contact me wanting to sell "an old, heavy IBM black keyboard that uses serial connector, and maybe one (or 2) white ones that uses those big, round connectors that were popular back in the days of Pentium I & II, LOL".

Now, I'm assuming the latter are Model Fs or Ms, but the first one has me stumped. Any idea what the guy is talking about? I like the fact that he described it as 'heavy'.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:07:03: IBM 5290 terminal keyboard

(http://geekhack.org/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=99)

Not a standard RS-232 connection, and would need some sort of adapter to interface it with a PC.

(http://kbdbabel.org/conn/kbd_connector_ibm5291-2.png)

I have seen variants of the PC/XT keyboard with what looks like a standard RS-232 plug, but they're very rare, and I'm not sure if they are actually usable with a modern machine. The 5290 board is a more likely bet.

(http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2005/ibm_emr/ibm_emr-011.jpg)
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ThirdLap on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:11:41: Quote from: ch_123;212911
IBM 5290 terminal keyboard

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=99)

Not a standard RS-232 connection, and would need some sort of adapter to interface it with a PC.

I have seen variants of the PC/XT keyboard with what looks like a standard RS-232 plug, but they're very rare, and I'm not sure if they are actually usable with a modern machine. The 5290 board is a more likely bet.

Thanks ch. It seems this would be desirable for the sake of nostalgia/collectibility only. Maybe I'll pick it up if the price is right.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:12:17: Wait, did he say the keyboard was black? It could be a black M13. Lexmark did make M13s that used a serial cable for the trackpoint, and a DIN connector for the keyboard instead of a PS/2 Y-cable.

The description is quite vague. A picture would be nice =P
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:25:03: Yeah, IBM never made those serial model Fs in black colour.

A Model M13 with serial... interesting. Good thing I have dozens of serial ports on my computers.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:37:56: I got a serial cable for my M5-2 keyboard as well. Got the serial and DIN. I don't really use it however since I got my 12-foot stretchy cable.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:43:31: Quote from: microsoft windows;212922
I got a serial cable for my M5-2 keyboard as well. Got the serial and DIN. I don't really use it however since I got my 12-foot stretchy cable.

Could you post a picture of that cable please? I have never seen one.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ThirdLap on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:46:31: Quote from: ch_123;212914
Wait, did he say the keyboard was black? It could be a black M13.

He did. I wrote him back a little while ago requesting a better description and pics, but no response yet. I'll update as soon as I know more.

Quote
The description is quite vague. A picture would be nice =P

Tell me about it. I always get vague responses.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 15 August 2010, 18:58:39: Quote from: ch_123;212926
Could you post a picture of that cable please? I have never seen one.

I'll get around to it once I get my digital camera working again...(There's a reason why I haven't been too active in the Pictures forum).
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 15 August 2010, 19:43:14: That's an XT. You can tell from the location of the Esc key.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 15 August 2010, 19:46:52: Some people do advertise PS/2 as "serial". The nearby recycler does.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 15 August 2010, 19:52:24: I don't think it's an AT either. Now that I take a good look at it, the Tab key's got that hat style. I think it's just a standard XT F with a different badge and plug.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 15 August 2010, 19:55:01: Quote from: kishy;212938
The DE-9 plugs used for PC serial ports have the male end on the computer, female on the device. I'd suspect, of course, that it's backwards in this case to prevent someone connecting it because it's not compatible.

4 pins - that could be XT (perhaps AT), just with a different physical connector.

*facepalm*

Knew there was something odd about it.

Quote from: kishy;212946
Physical layout, sure. Protocol could be AT if the board was a late enough product and layout was simply maintained for whatever reason.

Unlikely, but without knowing for sure, anything is possible. With only 4 populated pins I'd say it's potentially very likely that it uses either the PC & XT protocol, the AT protocol, or the mostly-like-AT protocol the terminals used.

That example was made in 1987, the last year of the PC/XT Model F production, so they were still being made, or at least they had enough spare parts to make them.

Bare in mind that the controller was permanently attached to the keyboard PCB with a non-removable cable, so mixing and matching different controllers with different PCBs was not a trivial task.

Oddly enough, on that keyboard, they tried to normalize the location of Caps, Ctrl and Alt -

(http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2005/ibm_emr/ibm_emr-003.jpg)

You can see that they obviously ran out of stock of the specially sized ]} you usually see on PC/XT Model Fs. =P
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 15 August 2010, 20:00:34: We need a Geekhacker to get one.

But it does look just like a standard XT except for that ] key.
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 15 August 2010, 20:05:15: It probably uses standard XT protocol, except it uses a special connector so that people with expensive IBM EMR systems couldn't just use a cheap XT keyboard to replace it if it died...
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ThirdLap on Tue, 17 August 2010, 01:44:11: So it would seem that the guy may have realized that he might have something interesting on his hands, as he's no longer returning my emails. Dude should send me a finder's fee or something. :frusty:
Title: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: ThirdLap on Tue, 17 August 2010, 19:15:06: So the guy emailed me back. Apparently anything bigger than the cheap keyboards that come with today's computers is now considered 'huge and heavy', as it turns out the obscure-sounding IBM keyboard was just a KB-8923.

He has the 8923 and two Keytronic boards for $10, and although I don't really want them, I'm tempted to just because of all the effort the poor guy has put into digging them out for me. I suppose it is only $10. Opinions?

Also, another guy has this (http://i.imgur.com/x4GXY.jpg) for sale. I assume it's just another rubber dome board, correct?
Title: Re: IBM keyboard that used a serial port?
Post by: sanscorp on Wed, 28 November 2018, 07:44:50: Hi Guys,

Old topic, I know, also new here but not really a hacker..
Sander, 32 from the Netherlands.

Quick question:

I have a Cherry MY 1800 keyboard with DIN5 connector and a (automotive) gas analyzer with a D-SUB15 (DB15) connector for a keyboard.
I'm missing the original adapter DIN5 --> DB15 but the keyboard is original to this analyzer.

+5v and ground are easy and found.
But how do I measure which pin is reset, data and clock?

Can it be done with a multimeter or do I need a scope and then what to look for?

Thanks all!