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geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: Crazy Designers on Tue, 20 April 2021, 12:11:40

Title: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Crazy Designers on Tue, 20 April 2021, 12:11:40: this is not even an Interest Check lol, i just share our thoughts to you guys :p

To bring the industrial standard to the Dactyl-manuform Keyboard, we envisioned a radical design for it:
Alu case + Rigid-Flex PCB

(https://i.imgur.com/fttl47Y.png)

Real talk or nonsense? Please leave your thoughts here.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: econeuler on Tue, 20 April 2021, 12:16:02: Super cool! Regarding the layout, what have you in mind?
Since people tend to customize the files, I'm not sure what the most common is? 4x6?
Or are you thinking a full size 5x6? Either way looking forward to follow :)
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: nevin on Tue, 20 April 2021, 13:36:02: i've seen a number of threads asking about an aluminum version of the manuform. thrilled to see someone working on one.
- i'd probably take a poll to gauge what the consensus is for the most popular layout, number of keys, tenting, switch cutout support etc. i'm sure if you're doing mass production there will be a limited number of options, which is fine and to be expected.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Crazy Designers on Wed, 21 April 2021, 04:47:23: Quote from: econeuler on Tue, 20 April 2021, 12:16:02
Super cool! Regarding the layout, what have you in mind?
Since people tend to customize the files, I'm not sure what the most common is? 4x6?
Or are you thinking a full size 5x6? Either way looking forward to follow :)

4x6 i bet. heres the layout:

(https://i.imgur.com/lAJGHVs.png)

it may have 2 or 3 layers. not decided yet
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: econeuler on Wed, 21 April 2021, 06:16:30: Quote from: Crazy Designers on Wed, 21 April 2021, 04:47:23
Quote from: econeuler on Tue, 20 April 2021, 12:16:02
Super cool! Regarding the layout, what have you in mind?
Since people tend to customize the files, I'm not sure what the most common is? 4x6?
Or are you thinking a full size 5x6? Either way looking forward to follow :)

4x6 i bet. heres the layout:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/lAJGHVs.png)

it may have 2 or 3 layers. not decided yet

Very nice! Are you planning to have is compatible with QMK?
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: jamster on Wed, 21 April 2021, 06:46:49: I'm assuming this is more 'pie in the sky' than anything that's likely to make it into production, but the one render has some interesting angles to it. Got any more renders?
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: nevin on Wed, 21 April 2021, 07:39:01: i like how the thumbs are done. don't think i've seen this variation yet. looks like it might solve some of the stacked thumb key issues.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Crazy Designers on Wed, 21 April 2021, 10:45:38: (https://i.imgur.com/OAvVyqK.jpeg)

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: bstiq on Wed, 21 April 2021, 11:26:52: Hi,

It's doable. Just too expensive to realistically manufacture as more than a fun project ...

See picture here: (https://imgur.com/a/NJK9Jiy)

https://imgur.com/a/NJK9Jiy

Made from steel, gold-plated.

From the render it looks the switch plate is not metal - only the outer part.
This would definitely be cheaper and easier to manufacture.

Design looks great, looking forward to it. Is there a PCB coming with it ?
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: nevin on Wed, 21 April 2021, 11:47:48: Quote from: bstiq on Wed, 21 April 2021, 11:26:52
Hi,

It's doable. Just too expensive to realistically manufacture as more than a fun project ...

See picture here:
Show Image
(https://imgur.com/a/NJK9Jiy)

https://imgur.com/a/NJK9Jiy

Made from steel, gold-plated.

From the render it looks the switch plate is not metal - only the outer part.
This would definitely be cheaper and easier to manufacture.

Design looks great, looking forward to it. Is there a PCB coming with it ?

heh, i was just looking at their Skeletyl earlier today... unique adaptation of the D.M.

did you build yours up yet? what's it sound like? an open frame steel DM
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: kuro0renji on Wed, 21 April 2021, 12:52:42: I can't wait to get my hands on it. It definitely going to be my first ergo board.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: bstiq on Wed, 21 April 2021, 12:53:54: Quote from: nevin on Wed, 21 April 2021, 11:47:48
Quote from: bstiq on Wed, 21 April 2021, 11:26:52
Hi,

It's doable. Just too expensive to realistically manufacture as more than a fun project ...

See picture here:
Show Image
(https://imgur.com/a/NJK9Jiy)

https://imgur.com/a/NJK9Jiy

Made from steel, gold-plated.

From the render it looks the switch plate is not metal - only the outer part.
This would definitely be cheaper and easier to manufacture.

Design looks great, looking forward to it. Is there a PCB coming with it ?

heh, i was just looking at their Skeletyl earlier today... unique adaptation of the D.M.

did you build yours up yet? what's it sound like? an open frame steel DM

Hi,

I'm Quentin, the designer of those keyboards. This one is for a client, haven't built it yet as the tolerances are... not great.
Currently it's in a metal workshop waiting to be filed a little bit everywhere.
Then the plan is to add hotswap using my single-col PCBs.

From looking at the pics there seems to be a flex PCB in the works, very interesting. There's also little holes but they look too small for rgb ?

Regards,
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: nevin on Wed, 21 April 2021, 13:06:45: Quote
There's also little holes but they look too small for rgb ?

i saw that too, i believe there is a newer smaller package size than what we have been using....

hello, Quentin. nice to meet you... love the idea/concept of the Skeletyl, and your microcontoller (trrs) holders are extremely interesting, another wonderful idea. postage stamp/board had done something similar but yours is what is needed. a way to add trrs/reset as well as mounting holes. fantasitc!

...apologies... off subject...
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: hrmmm on Wed, 21 April 2021, 21:58:09: I really hope you make it QMK/VIA compatible. The proprietary online configurator for the cyber board is not great, and if you push that onto this board as well, I imagine you'll lose out on a number of potential buyers.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 24 April 2021, 14:41:15: NO, this is not suitable.

Aluminum cases are really heavy, the advantage to SPLIT ergonomic designs is the ease of moving the halves around to adapt to different use situations and angles.

It may look nice, but it directly subtracts from an operational feature.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Crazy Designers on Mon, 26 April 2021, 08:16:13: (https://i.imgur.com/HZiiJQ3.jpg) another update...
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Tom Sparrow on Mon, 26 April 2021, 10:52:43: Any actual photo of a prototype or any renders with the whole keyboard. Don't want to by a keyboard based on a teaser image.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: xgalaxy on Tue, 27 April 2021, 02:07:14: Definitely buying. Add me to the list right now. I don’t want to miss out.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Tue, 27 April 2021, 02:39:08: where will it be sold?
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Dash on Tue, 27 April 2021, 03:11:45: Interesting. As an ergodox user, one thing I'd say is, just because keys aren't reachable from your resting position, it's not a reason to omit them. The typing keys should be easily accessible (check), but I'd much rather a function row than having to faff with weird combinations of layers and what not to do Alt+F4 etc - these aren't frequent uses so the ergonomic position is less important (and can obviously be ignored by choice).
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: jamster on Tue, 27 April 2021, 03:19:09: Are people somehow managing to completely miss the first sentence that says "not even an Interest Check lol"?
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Tue, 27 April 2021, 03:20:58: Quote from: jamster on Tue, 27 April 2021, 03:19:09
Are people somehow managing to completely miss the first sentence that says "not even an Interest Check lol"?
ok, but where can i buy it?

;D
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: twohands on Tue, 27 April 2021, 08:47:44: Looks awesome! 100% would buy.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: hrmmm on Tue, 27 April 2021, 21:27:29: By the lack of response, I'm guessing no QMK support?
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Crazy Designers on Tue, 27 April 2021, 21:57:57: Quote from: tp4tissue on Sat, 24 April 2021, 14:41:15
NO, this is not suitable.

Aluminum cases are really heavy, the advantage to SPLIT ergonomic designs is the ease of moving the halves around to adapt to different use situations and angles.

It may look nice, but it directly subtracts from an operational feature.

hi, this is a good point. For the typing experience of the mechanical keyboard, we chose alu. and, after several uses, we think the position of your hands will not be changed too often. maybe you dont need to move it all the way.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: jamster on Wed, 28 April 2021, 02:42:56: Each of my split board halves weight about a kilo. Weight is not a problem.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: FlitzDeelman on Thu, 29 April 2021, 04:21:25: I would argue that weight would be an advantage with a split. It pisses me off when I have to continually re-adjust the halves since they shifted below me. I understand I can partially fix that with bigger rubber bumpons and a nice non-slip deskmat. But still.

Crazy Designers, please make this a reality if you can!
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: FlitzDeelman on Thu, 29 April 2021, 06:46:45: Erm, it seems Am Hatsu is on the way, but I doubt it's something I can afford this year. Please keep making it!
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: minicap on Fri, 30 April 2021, 18:36:58: This looks really, really cool! I personally wouldn't mind the heavier case on a split ergo.

Like others, hoping for QMK/VIA support to easily customise the layout.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: gh_pp on Sat, 01 May 2021, 00:58:20: From the replies (crazy designer said he's thinking about 2-3 layers), seems like it is not QMK compatible.

Haven't seen any prebuilt bluetooth keyboard with QMK out of the box, the only bluetooth supported by QMK require hand built and I haven't even seen one demo'ed on youtube or elsewhere.

Whether it supports QMK or not, if AM HATSU software and configurator can support the full sets of QMK functions, I guess that will suffice.

But that list is huge and not trivial to replicate:

mod-tap, tap-dance, one shot modifiers, etc. The first two can span into a lot of different combos, even QMK VIA don't support for the time being.

Without MT, TD and OSM though, I would not consider using because those features actually make my typing experience super comfortable, split and ergo shape will be secondary concern.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Sylvester_Stalin on Tue, 04 May 2021, 11:27:02: Quote from: twohands on Tue, 27 April 2021, 08:47:44
Looks awesome! 100% would buy.

You can find preorder here https://angrymiao.myshopify.com/products/am-hatsu (https://angrymiao.myshopify.com/products/am-hatsu)

make your bank account ready for this: 1280$ for preorder for the 100 firsts then it will be 1600$
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: Runningtarrens on Tue, 04 May 2021, 13:35:04: that looks really sexy, but that price is not anywhere where i would consider sadly.

also weight is no problem. the IMK corne is also from alu and ppl still say its to light.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: wikkiwikki420 on Wed, 21 July 2021, 08:35:04: The HYPE is real. It is looking phenomenal and I believe many will be disappointed that they didn't get in on pre order.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: hrmmm on Tue, 03 August 2021, 10:09:36: There's so little detail about this product that as of now, there's only hype and no substance. Definitely not disappointed about missing out at this price point, especially since what little we do know is that it'll come with pre-soldered switches and use proprietary software.
Title: Re: AM HATSU - Alu Dactyl-manuform Keyboard?
Post by: scrthq on Mon, 20 September 2021, 15:44:24: The design looks amazing! I'm definitely interested!