Post by: pmdbt on Sun, 25 April 2021, 19:48:56
FB60/Freebird60, the ultimate entry-level custom keyboard kit.
Tentative GB Date: August 2nd, 2021
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Kit Summary
Update May 13, 2021
- We have removed one of the center posts near the space bar based on feedback. We're running another IC to see how the community wants us to deal with the remaining center post. We can either remove it completely or make it a removable stand-off. Please fill out the new IC HERE (https://forms.gle/V2MC4ukFCeabm3BE8)
- We have finalized the other plate options based on feedback. You can see them HERE (https://keebsforall.com/collections/interest-check/products/freebird60)
- The color options are finalized. Every color will be E-coated. You can see the options HERE (https://keebsforall.com/collections/interest-check/products/freebird60)
- We have confirmed vendors for US, Canada, and all of Asia. UK and EU are still TBD, please fill out the IC to let us know.
Case kit with the following:
- 60% tray-mounted aluminum case with the option to use o-rings for a simulated gasket mounted feel for a bouncier typing feel.
- 60% hot-swap PCB with an optional arrow key layout. VIA compatible
- Silicon dampener and silicon bump-on strips
- 60% Aluminum universal ANSI-layout plate
- Modular components, so everything can work with a Tofu60 or another standard 60% case, PCB etc.
- All for an affordable price of $130.00 USD or less depending on your configuration!
Concept Background
I first joined the community at the beginning of the COVID19 pandemic, because I was looking for new hobbies to keep myself busy. The keyboard community fascinated me and I was shocked to discover all the different layouts, materials, and mounting styles of different custom boards. I was instantly hooked! However, I noticed that at the time, pretty much everything keyboard-related, especially entry-level items, were all out of stock. I checked out a few group buys and was shocked to learn that I would have to wait up to a year if not more to actually receive the products. When I asked a few questions on the different subreddits about why components were always out of stock; why group buys took so long to complete; and why prices were so high, I was told "that's just how this hobby is" and "if I don't like it, I should just go find another hobby".
Well, I'm a super stubborn person, so when people told me to just accept what I thought were some deficiencies in the hobby, I decided to try and fix those deficiencies myself. As a result, I started KeebsForAll (https://keebsforall.com), so that I can start supplying the community with more in-stock products, faster group buy timeframes, and most important of all, high-quality products at more affordable prices.
The FB60/Freebird60 was the first project concept I thought of when I started the company. I reached out to some designers and ultimately collaborated with Dingus (Case designer) and Taylor (PCB designer), who are both members of the community who share the same vision that I have--to provide more high-quality community-driven designs at affordable prices. This is how the project was born.
Project Name Background
This project is dedicated to my partner, who is also my co-founder at KeebsForAll. She used to always say "I'm a free bird and I can do whatever I want" whenever I told her we shouldn't eat something unhealthy or do something silly etc. Without her, I'd be a boring robot, so the case and PCB are dedicated to her free spirit and her unwavering support when I make risky life decisions like starting my own companies.
Project Goals
- Make an affordable entry-level 60% kit that allows for an arrow cluster layout, but keeping the PCB hot-swap and the case metal.
- Keep the pricing at a maximum of $130 USD including higher-end Durock screw-in stabilizers and silicone dampeners.
- Keep each component modular, so that users of Tofu60 and other default 60% cases or PCBs can still use many of this kit's components.
Case Renders
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GroupBuy Geekhack Post (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=114026.0)
Post by: pmdbt on Sun, 25 April 2021, 19:50:03
E-white prototype
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Post by: pmdbt on Sun, 25 April 2021, 19:50:15
The REV1 PCB has been discontinued, so that it's not being produced anymore, but it's still being sold. If you choose this version of the PCB, you'll be able to obtain additional savings in the kit, but quantities are limited. You can also ask our customers who have bought the REV1 PCBs what they think about them. The prototype REV2 PCB images are below, but in the production version, the branding and all the silver trim will be gold-colored instead. The PCB supports 2 layouts-a standard ANSI 60% layout and a layout that supports a bottom right arrow key cluster. The PCB is also hot-swap and VIA compatible with mostly south-facing switches.
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Sound Tests
These are sound tests recorded by myself. The first video features Ethereal Panda switches. It does have the silicon dampener in the case but doesn't have the silicon bump-on strips at the bottom of the case. The second video has the same setup as the first video but uses the silver prototype instead and I show the level of flex you can have in the typing experience if you use the suggested o-ring mounting technique. Both prototypes in the video were installed using the intended o-ring mounting technique shown here (https://youtu.be/SQcdgUKV6dU). The video is not from us, but another community member who modded his Tofu60, but the same technique will work with the FB60.
1. E-white FB60 prototype with Ethereal Panda switches (https://youtu.be/XJQ9h4jJu2Q)
2. Annodized Silver FB60 with Durock L3 switches (https://youtu.be/ZlU13h_Dtvc)
Reviews from Streamers and Youtubers
TBD. We have ordered 10 more prototypes to circulate around different content creators so that you guys can have a more informed choice. This section will be updated when their reviews are released.
Packaging Design
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Plate Materials
- Aluminium
- Brass
- FR4
Colors
All colors will be E-coated.
- White
- Black
- Navy
- Olive Green
Pricing
Pricing hasn't been finalized yet. But it's 95% likely that the pricing you see here will be the same as the GB/Pre-order. The only other things we need to make sure of are the pricing for different plate options that the community picks via the IC.
The summary:
- Only case (includes silicon bump-on strips and silicon dampener) - $75 USD
- Budget option (includes REV1 PCB, Aluminum Plate, Plate-mounted stabs, silicon dampener, silicon bump-on strips, basic USB-c cable) - $99 USD
- High-end kit (includes REV2 PCB, Aluminum Plate，Durock V1 screw-in stabs， silicon dampener, silicon bump-on strips, basic USB-c cable) - $130 USD
See Here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uCboYqb9asIRIhT0VN9QlFYtGqRfCPo35bHh-2PBVvI/edit?usp=sharing) for price breakdown spreadsheet.
Vendors
[US] KeebsForAll (Ourselves)
[Canada] Ashkeebs
[Asia] Zion Studios
We're looking for community feedback on if you want us to have a UK vendor and EU zone vendor. Please fill out the new IC HERE (https://forms.gle/V2MC4ukFCeabm3BE8)
Pre-Order Timeline
Right now, we're aiming to release the GB/Pre-ordering in June 2021. The factory has told us it should take around 8 weeks to finish the entire production once we place the order. Then it'll take another month to ship to us. Once we receive it, we'll start shipping individual orders out on a rolling basis every day. So, our current estimate is 12 weeks between us placing the order and the items shipping to you all.
Thanks and Shout Outs!
- Dingus for working with us on the case design.
- Taylor for working with us on the PCB design.
- Nhils for helping with the package design.
- Liz for the awesome renders you see here.
- Our awesome KeebsForAll community members, who have been giving us feedback and encouragement throughout this entire journey.
Join our super friendly community here (https://discord.gg/dRjsAh5jMX) to stay updated with the project and many others to come!
Post by: Weaselpc on Sun, 25 April 2021, 19:58:58
Post by: ee on Sun, 25 April 2021, 20:02:59
Post by: dingusxmcgee on Sun, 25 April 2021, 20:14:37
Post by: Kamui7 on Sun, 25 April 2021, 21:32:20
That would be very interesting.
Even more so because we are not have budget WKL/HHKB keyboards running around.
Post by: Ustinj on Sun, 25 April 2021, 21:54:21
Make a WKL/HHKB version.
That would be very interesting.
Even more so because we are not have budget WKL/HHKB keyboards running around.
I think a major reason they can offer this case for budget pricing is it being a tray-mount one-piece case. WKL / HHKB require two pieces and a little more machining.
Post by: KnoblesseOblige on Sun, 25 April 2021, 21:59:06
I like it. Looks like a good alternative to the Tofu - would you be offering this as case only? Also do consider removable / no center mounting points, I think that's something people generally feel makes a tray mount case 'up there'.Make a WKL/HHKB version.
That would be very interesting.
Even more so because we are not have budget WKL/HHKB keyboards running around.
I think a major reason they can offer this case for budget pricing is it being a tray-mount one-piece case. WKL / HHKB require two pieces and a little more machining.
You could theoretically do an HHKB/WKL case if the PCB had cutouts for the blockers. Obviously would require a custom PCB, but wouldn't necessarily make a tray mount case too much more expensive.
Post by: Michelle Obama on Mon, 26 April 2021, 02:31:29
Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
Post by: Weaselpc on Mon, 26 April 2021, 08:12:50
Post by: pmdbt on Mon, 26 April 2021, 15:22:55
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if im reading the ic form right, by "case kit" do you mean just buying a case if we decide we want another color case? If so, What would be the expected price in comparison to the whole kit?
You can pre-order just the case without the other components if you'd like, but the kits are structured so that it's cheaper if you buy the entire kit with the stabilizers etc. The case only option includes the case, the silicon dampener, and the silicon bump-on strips as well as o-rings and screws for $75 USD. The color options in the IC form are meant to help us find the top 4 choices for the community. Those top 4 choices will make it into production.
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please try to contact Zion Studios Ph for a GB collab in SEA. A lot of Filipinos want to start a budget keyb.
Yep, we actually know them, so we've already reached out haha :)
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You could theoretically do an HHKB/WKL case if the PCB had cutouts for the blockers. Obviously would require a custom PCB, but wouldn't necessarily make a tray mount case too much more expensive.
We might introduce a future PCB that's HHKB compatible and also offer Magnetic blockers so that you can turn the current case into an HHKB case without having to purchase a brand new one. Unfortunately, we won't be able to offer it for this initial Pre-order though.
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I think a major reason they can offer this case for budget pricing is it being a tray-mount one-piece case. WKL / HHKB require two pieces and a little more machining.
Yep, this is the reason, but we're always looking for interesting designs and cool ways to mod a case into something people want, but without requiring them to buy another case. We're looking into detachable blockers that can mod the existing case into HHKB aesthetics etc.
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 26 April 2021, 15:33:49
sorry my friend
Post by: seh0nk on Mon, 26 April 2021, 17:12:56
Bakeneko 60 from cannonkeys is a better deal
sorry my friend
It is pretty close because of the Bakaneko's better mounting style.
But personally I would choose the Freebird - the PCB supports multiple layout hotswap, you can use screw-in stabilizers, it comes with screw in stabilizers, it comes with silicon dampening, the finish is way better (e-finish vs casting marks from cast aluminum), usb-c cable, and it still flexes (as you can see from the sound test video).
To me it seems more like the "complete package" if you're a beginner, and an overall higher end product. But the mounting style is pretty important
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 26 April 2021, 19:17:47
Post by: ocm on Tue, 27 April 2021, 07:23:56
Post by: phoenixrage on Tue, 27 April 2021, 08:13:03
Please no center mounting post. At least make it removable. Consider eliminating the spacebar post as well.
+1
Post by: Onixio on Tue, 27 April 2021, 08:14:32
I could be really interested! :D
Post by: treeleaf64 on Tue, 27 April 2021, 10:31:53
Bakeneko 60 from cannonkeys is a better deal
sorry my friend
It is pretty close because of the Bakaneko's better mounting style.
But personally I would choose the Freebird - the PCB supports multiple layout hotswap, you can use screw-in stabilizers, it comes with screw in stabilizers, it comes with silicon dampening, the finish is way better (e-finish vs casting marks from cast aluminum), usb-c cable, and it still flexes (as you can see from the sound test video).
To me it seems more like the "complete package" if you're a beginner, and an overall higher end product. But the mounting style is pretty important
Cherry clip ins are fine. Multiple layout hotswap doesn't matter if you just get a different hotswap pcb, or if you get a solderable one.
Silicone dampening is not necessary. The finish is the only thing that's better, but come on. It's 2021. Tray mount? Seriously?
Post by: phoenixrage on Tue, 27 April 2021, 11:55:14
Bakeneko 60 from cannonkeys is a better deal
sorry my friend
It is pretty close because of the Bakaneko's better mounting style.
But personally I would choose the Freebird - the PCB supports multiple layout hotswap, you can use screw-in stabilizers, it comes with screw in stabilizers, it comes with silicon dampening, the finish is way better (e-finish vs casting marks from cast aluminum), usb-c cable, and it still flexes (as you can see from the sound test video).
To me it seems more like the "complete package" if you're a beginner, and an overall higher end product. But the mounting style is pretty important
Cherry clip ins are fine. Multiple layout hotswap doesn't matter if you just get a different hotswap pcb, or if you get a solderable one.
Silicone dampening is not necessary. The finish is the only thing that's better, but come on. It's 2021. Tray mount? Seriously?
for the price, its ok to still be tray mount imo since its supposed to be entry level that isn't injection moulded.
Post by: pmdbt on Thu, 13 May 2021, 16:33:30
Please fill out the new IC form if you intend on grabbing one :)
Updated vendor list
Finalized Colors
Finalized plate options
Updated design of the case to remove one of two posts in the center of the case. Please fill out new IC to have a say in how the remaining middle post is dealt with :)
Post by: Peter_Porker on Thu, 13 May 2021, 17:18:02
Post by: pmdbt on Thu, 13 May 2021, 17:21:21
Do you have any more photos of other colors? Like the blue or green?
We don't have it for the Navy and Olive Green. The E-white turned out really great, so we just wanted to test the factory on 1 more color before we decide if we trust them to get the rest correct or not. We ended up ordering an E-black one, but we haven't taken photos of it yet. We will update it here in a day or two when we've taken the new photos :)
Post by: Peter_Porker on Thu, 13 May 2021, 17:22:23
Perfect, no rushDo you have any more photos of other colors? Like the blue or green?
We don't have it for the Navy and Olive Green. The E-white turned out really great, so we just wanted to test the factory on 1 more color before we decide if we trust them to get the rest correct or not. We ended up ordering an E-black one, but we haven't taken photos of it yet. We will update it here in a day or two when we've taken the new photos :)
Post by: kimchijody on Mon, 31 May 2021, 04:41:58
And it appears the internals are designed slightly better. Shorter standoff posts, less internal space, no massive battery cutout, more overall aesthetic with the chamfers and engraving, etc. A cheaper tofu alternative that's higher quality and sounds (potentially) better? Tell me that ain't interesting as hell.
Post by: pmdbt on Mon, 31 May 2021, 13:38:15
This is actually super intriguing from an entry level standpoint. Tray mount is not exactly everyone's favorite, but it's very beginner friendly for price. The fact that the Tofu has stood as one of the most entry level-friendly boards for as long as it has, this has the potential to take the place at an even lower price point.
And it appears the internals are designed slightly better. Shorter standoff posts, less internal space, no massive battery cutout, more overall aesthetic with the chamfers and engraving, etc. A cheaper tofu alternative that's higher quality and sounds (potentially) better? Tell me that ain't interesting as hell.
Thank you for the feedback, that's exactly what we were aiming for :)
Post by: gloomycloud on Tue, 01 June 2021, 04:14:46
Post by: Mr Chrome on Tue, 01 June 2021, 14:44:48
What’s the angle on this, though? It’s a bit too Tofu for me, not sure I can justify buying another. But if you ever make a high profile no-angle case like this, I’ll buy ten.
P.S. I’m with the remove center standoff club.
Post by: pmdbt on Tue, 01 June 2021, 22:18:58
Yes, please! BTW, remove all center posts and leaving the outer 4 is good for me.
One has already been removed, you can fill out the IC to vote on how we deal with the last remaining one. It will either be removed or be a screwable stand-off.
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What’s the angle on this, though? It’s a bit too Tofu for me, not sure I can justify buying another. But if you ever make a high profile no-angle case like this, I’ll buy ten.
The angle is 5 degrees for the case, which isn't super high. But if we do ever launch a no angle case, you'll be the first to know :)
Post by: Mr Chrome on Wed, 02 June 2021, 03:01:35
The angle is 5 degrees for the case, which isn't super high. But if we do ever launch a no angle case, you'll be the first to know :)
Ooo, 5 degrees is not too high compared to 7... I might just buy one after all! (and put some hella big bumpons on the front XD) I really like the rounded design of the bezel! I kinda wish the “freebird” branding was on the inside with the bird logo on the outside, though. Would’ve made it more unique IMO. And birds are cool you gotta show them off ^-^
But any word on Australian vendors? Noticed it was in the IC...
Post by: pmdbt on Thu, 03 June 2021, 12:53:04
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But any word on Australian vendors? Noticed it was in the IC...
We're still waiting to gather some more feedback on the IC, so we have a more representative sample size :)
When the IC officially ends, we'll make sure to update on this thread about the finalized vendor list.
Post by: Arcoril on Thu, 03 June 2021, 20:41:52
Bakeneko 60 from cannonkeys is a better deal
sorry my friend
I'd much rather have an e-coated case like this over a painted one.
Post by: jjlee88 on Sat, 19 June 2021, 12:03:22
Post by: pmdbt on Mon, 12 July 2021, 14:03:28
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Board Changes
Based on the previous IC responses, we have decided to remove the two center posts to allow for a more flexible and softer typing experience. We have also swapped to V2 Durock Stabilizers and the price will see a slight bump due to this, we believe the marginal price increase is more than warranted to have a better building experience where the stabilizers won't pop out during assembly.
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Date and Proxies
Our Tentative GB Date is Monday, August 2nd, looking forward, we have chosen our international proxies for this buy, the last one up in the air is Australia but as soon as we get a response to it we will let you guys know, the current plan is to get a proxy in Australia so we can provide the maximum amount of global coverage we can for all customers!
Colors And Color Renders
Our first round will be in
Black
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White
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Navy
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Olive Green
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different colors will come in future rounds which will be coming soon variable on our first sales rotation, thank you guys for reading and I hope you have a wonderful start to your week!
- KeebsForAll
Discord:
https://discord.gg/dRjsAh5jMX (https://discord.gg/dRjsAh5jMX)
Vendors:
US:
[KeebsForAll] https://keebsforall.com (https://keebsforall.com)
Canada:
[Ashkeebs](https://www.ashkeebs.com/product-category/group-buy/ongoing/)
Europe:
[MyKeyboard] https://mykeyboard.eu/ (https://mykeyboard.eu/)
Phillipines:
[ZionStudios.PH] https://zionstudios.ph/ (https://zionstudios.ph/)
Australia:
TBD
Post by: Mr Chrome on Mon, 12 July 2021, 22:27:45
Post by: Nerdbot5000 on Tue, 13 July 2021, 14:21:19
Post by: Keeblet_257 on Wed, 14 July 2021, 03:27:57