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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: bhtooefr on Fri, 20 August 2010, 08:15:57

Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Fri, 20 August 2010, 08:15:57: (http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/images/IMG_1373.jpg)

An IBM PC Server 500 System/390 8641-MYC.

Pentium 90, 32 megs of RAM, Dual LANStreamer, two ethernet cards, some XGA card, two RAID controllers, a System/390 processor with 32 megs of RAM, and 96 megs of additional RAM for the S/390.

Oh, and it's got 159.3 gigs of SCSI drives in there, with three empty hotswap bays.

Aww yeah.

This weekend's project will be getting it running again.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: TexasFlood on Fri, 20 August 2010, 08:22:44: Hell, I want that one. Pretty cool.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 20 August 2010, 09:10:43: Windows NT 3.51 or NT4 would run great on that.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Fri, 20 August 2010, 09:45:04: Nope. Won't work at all.

Well, it'll boot fine, but the S/390 card only has drivers for OS/2 on x86, and AIX on POWER.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 20 August 2010, 10:41:37: Run OS/390 on it?

Do you have pictures of the System/390 card?
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Fri, 20 August 2010, 11:06:46: I really don't want to extract it, because I've found that MCA cards are a pain to get lined up, and mine has a RAM card bolted to it, so I have to line two MCA cards up AT THE SAME TIME.

Anyway, I can run VM, VSE, and various OSes in the MVS lineage. (I believe up to z/VM 3.x, quite a ways into the z/VSE family, and OS/390 V2R10.)

I plan on running VM/ESA 2.4.0, and maybe some MVS version, although I have to be careful, as MVS is very, very heavy for this system.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 20 August 2010, 11:17:33: Found some pictures of it by googling around.

That server looks like it's industrial grey... Wonder if it was intended for such usage.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Fri, 20 August 2010, 11:25:20: Yeah, it is the industrial color, I believe, but this chassis was their generic "I want a server to run OS/2 or NT and have a crapton of drives" chassis, used by the PC Server 5xx and 7xx line. They may have bundled industrial Ms with them, I don't know, though.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 20 August 2010, 12:45:25: You need to get a matching IBM clicky keyboard for your server...
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 20 August 2010, 13:52:47: It totally has the industrial look (even the badge):
(http://www.computermuseum.org.uk/fixed_pages/IBM_PC500_S390_files/image002.jpg)

Too bad it didn't come with a 1985 Model M!

So what's wrong with it; does it just need an OS installed or something?

And yeah, that is pretty awesome to have a computer like that (probably huge too).
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Fri, 20 August 2010, 14:07:43: It needs the CMOS battery replaced, RAID arrays rebuilt, and then I can install an OS.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 20 August 2010, 14:29:04: Quote from: EverythingIBM;215062
It totally has the industrial look (even the badge):
Show Image
(http://www.computermuseum.org.uk/fixed_pages/IBM_PC500_S390_files/image002.jpg)

Too bad it didn't come with a 1985 Model M!

So what's wrong with it; does it just need an OS installed or something?

And yeah, that is pretty awesome to have a computer like that (probably huge too).

That thing's probably almost as tall as my Gateway2000 and probably a little wider. Definitely has got a large footprint.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: D-EJ915 on Fri, 20 August 2010, 18:37:04: Quote from: microsoft windows;215089
That thing's probably almost as tall as my Gateway2000 and probably a little wider. Definitely has got a large footprint.
probably twice as long and 4-5 times as heavy lol

Those IBM PC Servers were pretty nice boxes, I want a PPro one but they never show up on ebay (and if they do the prices are absurd)
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 20 August 2010, 20:31:31: Yeah good thing people still want to get them working up again for fun (or maybe even have a minor use for them) -- throwing away massive machines like that would be a gigantic waste towards the environment.

I'm not a global warming nut, but I do believe people should try to find more uses for their old equipment, and there's always people who want stuff like that.

Besides, imagine all of the model F AT keyboards that were thrown away solely on the basis of being "too old", rather than being nice to the touch.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 21 August 2010, 05:40:02: If the PS/2 Server 95 Array's drive trays could take a 68-pin drive, I'd ditch this case in a heartbeat, admittedly. Too damn big. But, I'd sell it sans the front cover (the one external identification that this is a S/390,) not scrap it.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 21 August 2010, 17:12:58: Quote from: bhtooefr;215293
If the PS/2 Server 95 Array's drive trays could take a 68-pin drive, I'd ditch this case in a heartbeat, admittedly. Too damn big. But, I'd sell it sans the front cover (the one external identification that this is a S/390,) not scrap it.

That's a nice case, sure it's big, but it looks like it could have many uses (I can already think of a lot).
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 21 August 2010, 17:23:28: Grr. OS/2 install keeps stopping (not erroring, not (AFAICT) freezing, just stopping dead) at C:\OS2\INSTALL\BOOTDISK\SYSINSTX.COM.

It's OS/2 Warp 4.52 CP2 Client (the server versions actually aren't recommended for this.)
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 21 August 2010, 17:26:10: Quote from: bhtooefr;215474
Grr. OS/2 install keeps stopping (not erroring, not (AFAICT) freezing, just stopping dead) at C:\OS2\INSTALL\BOOTDISK\SYSINSTX.COM.

It's OS/2 Warp 4.52 CP2 Client (the server versions actually aren't recommended for this.)

Well, try installing something else, can you install DOS or something?
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 21 August 2010, 17:45:59: For this machine, the only OS that will work is OS/2. I'm not running it to have a PC Server 500, I'm running it to have a PC Server 500 System/390, and that part requires OS/2.

Or I could get a MCA RS/6000, and that could run AIX.

Those are my two OS choices, if I want to use that card.

Anyway, I'm trying a different version of the RAID driver, I think the version I had was meant for OS/2 2.11. The version I'm using now is the one included with Warp 4.52.

Edit: Of course, all of this came down to a coaster problem. Burned a fresh CD, worked fine.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: TexasFlood on Sat, 21 August 2010, 18:50:42: Quote from: bhtooefr;215478
For this machine, the only OS that will work is OS/2. I'm not running it to have a PC Server 500, I'm running it to have a PC Server 500 System/390, and that part requires OS/2.

Or I could get a MCA RS/6000, and that could run AIX.

Those are my two OS choices, if I want to use that card.

Anyway, I'm trying a different version of the RAID driver, I think the version I had was meant for OS/2 2.11. The version I'm using now is the one included with Warp 4.52.

I'm not sure that's true. I poked around IBM support. After sorting through some dead links from site changes, particularly splitting out Lenovo, think I found the right way to find info on this server.

Went to the support portal http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/ (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/) , clicked on the "quick start" link I saw on the upper left corner. entered "pc server 500 s/390" and clicked on the little magnifying glass symbol. I clicked on the box beside "PC Server 500" in the resulting list. After that you can optionally select an OS and/or support category (such as installation), then click on "view your page" to see available resources.

There is a lot of stuff there and you can navigate around that page. I saw a detailed hardware guide, firmware updates, install guides for both OS/2 Warp and SCO Openserver. Looks like a lot of good info there. Good luck.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 21 August 2010, 19:52:01: The PC Server 500 can run Windows NT just fine.

The problem is, there's no drivers for the Personal/390 adapter for any OSes other than OS/2 on x86 and AIX on POWER.

And, seeing as the machine is a PC Server 500 System/390, and the entire reason I have this machine is for that System/390 part, therefore, OS/2 is the only OS that I can run to do what I want.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: TexasFlood on Sat, 21 August 2010, 20:06:44: Quote from: bhtooefr;215510
The PC Server 500 can run Windows NT just fine.

The problem is, there's no drivers for the Personal/390 adapter for any OSes other than OS/2 on x86 and AIX on POWER.

And, seeing as the machine is a PC Server 500 System/390, and the entire reason I have this machine is for that System/390 part, therefore, OS/2 is the only OS that I can run to do what I want.

OK, fair enough. That being the case, I think it's likely you're find some valuable info there such as:
Required modifications to the OS/2 installation media (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/docdisplay?lndocid=DDSE-3U3Q95&brandind=5350884)
Software and device drivers section (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/sdd/Hardware/Systems/Older_System_x/PC_Server_500?key=5351288&osKey=null&brand=5350884)
Hardware Maintenance Manual (http://ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/systems/support/system_x/s30h2501.pdf)
What the desktop icons mean (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/docdisplay?lndocid=COBN-38VFU4&brandind=5350884)
Initialization (S/390) - PC Server 500 (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/docdisplay?lndocid=DDSE-3UXTJM&brandind=5350884)
Microprocessor complex configuration (S/390) - PC Server 500 (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/docdisplay?lndocid=DDSE-3UXTLD&brandind=5350884)
RAID configuration and data scrubbing to prevent RAID rebuild failure (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/docdisplay?lndocid=MCGN-3HKK6P&brandind=5350884)
Etc... Have fun...
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: TexasFlood on Sat, 21 August 2010, 21:43:59: Quote from: bhtooefr;215474
Grr. OS/2 install keeps stopping (not erroring, not (AFAICT) freezing, just stopping dead) at C:\OS2\INSTALL\BOOTDISK\SYSINSTX.COM.

It's OS/2 Warp 4.52 CP2 Client (the server versions actually aren't recommended for this.)
In the VSE/ESA on a PC Server 500 System/390 (http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg244679.pdf) redbook, it says OS/2 Warp V3 came installed on the PC Server System/390, not sure if there are problems installing newer.

Well, according to to this Technical specifications info (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/docdisplay?lndocid=DDSE-42XMW4&brandind=5350884), it's not just v3 that's supported. In fact I saw some directions for nstalling OS/2 Warp Server 4.0 Advanced (http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/docdisplay?lndocid=MCGN-3WTHWL&brandind=5350884).
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 22 August 2010, 05:53:49: By "recommended," I meant what is recommended on P370-L, not what IBM published as recommendations, BTW.

(There were/are some IBMers and former IBMers that posted on there, too. The main reasons to run client versions of the OS are to avoid HPFS386 (bad, BAD idea on a P/390 - apparently you get a nice memory leak pretty quickly,) and the client comes with a light version of Personal Communications 3270 that is more than good enough to serve as the console for the mainframe.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 22 August 2010, 07:18:42: (http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/images/p390diags.png)

Got OS/2 installed, and the P/390 software installed... now to install VM/ESA.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 22 August 2010, 07:43:50: You should get a big IBM CRT (http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-6555-8E3-P201-20-CRT-Monitor-15-Pin-SVGA-Black-/190429561376?pt=Computer_Monitors) to go with that server. $70, RCG is having a special today.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 22 August 2010, 08:08:22: That doesn't even look like a Trinitron. ;)

And, black wouldn't go with it anyway.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 22 August 2010, 08:19:27: I just realized something -- is the 96MB on the daughter card ECC as well? Otherwise, I've witnessed the first mixing of ECC and non-ECC RAM.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 22 August 2010, 08:28:36: Yeah, it's ECC.

(And the RAM on the PC side is 32 megs of ECC as well. Need to upgrade that...
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: TexasFlood on Sun, 22 August 2010, 09:09:54: Quote from: bhtooefr;215573
Got OS/2 installed, and the P/390 software installed... now to install VM/ESA.

Cool. Did you do anything to get past it "stopping at C:\OS2\INSTALL\BOOTDISK\SYSINSTX.COM"? Looking over the links above, I wasn't sure what it might be except maybe the raid driver I saw mentioned in a couple of places.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 22 August 2010, 09:24:24: I replaced the CD. The CD that that file was on didn't burn properly.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 22 August 2010, 15:58:36: (http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/images/ipl1.jpg)

(http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/images/ipl2.jpg)

(http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/images/ipl3.jpg)
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 22 August 2010, 17:23:24: Aside from running it from the sake of it, is there anything interesting and/or useful you can do with VM/ESA?
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 22 August 2010, 18:21:53: Not really the kind of stuff that we hobbyists would do, and the ESA versions are to the point where they're old enough that they're obsolete in the real world, although it is capable of running a web server.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 22 August 2010, 20:07:48: Oh hey! You did buy that IBM monitor (looks pretty cool!):
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12237&stc=1&d=1282525608)

You might want to fix the geometry though...

EDIT: oh yeah, and you can remove the "69 lbs" tape label now.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 23 August 2010, 20:29:20: Quote from: bhtooefr;215745
Not really the kind of stuff that we hobbyists would do, and the ESA versions are to the point where they're old enough that they're obsolete in the real world, although it is capable of running a web server.

Yeah, most of IBM's mainframe OSes look locked down and limited to certain pre-designated functions. Contrast with the likes of DEC's VMS which you could use as a regular OS if you had the right hardware.

Incidentally, this must be the third or fourth time today I have tried to reply to this thread. Every time I did beforehand, the forum just happened to die or screw up just as I was doing it.
Title: My newest acquisition... EverythingIBM will like this...
Post by: bhtooefr on Tue, 24 August 2010, 15:00:41: Actually, IBM's OSes are fairly general purpose - MVS OpenEdition was actually the first POSIX implementation, and VM can run anything - it's meant to be a very simple OS that gets out of your way - if you want, it can just give you a virtual mainframe of your own to do whatever you want with, and coexist with everything else, or it can give you a CMS environment that connects to other virtual machines that also run under CMS.