geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: KillerBee on Sun, 22 August 2010, 22:47:17

Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 22 August 2010, 22:47:17
I bought this today looks to be the earliest model M I have seen in my computing lifetime.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250685205162 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250685205162)

(http://www.copperlite.com/ebay_personal/ibm/img3.jpg)

(http://www.copperlite.com/ebay_personal/ibm/img1.jpg)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: didjamatic on Sun, 22 August 2010, 22:55:52
Definitely an early one for sure.  It's a terminal model m so it's not immediately able to work on an at computer without sone mods.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: WhiteRice on Sun, 22 August 2010, 23:11:15
(http://zachwang.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Doc-Brown.jpg)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 22 August 2010, 23:25:54
Quote from: didjamatic;215839
Definitely an early one for sure.  It's a terminal model m so it's not immediately able to work on an at computer without sone mods.


I plan to try somethings to make it work, believe you will see a another crazy thread pop up soon!!

But yes based on the database on the clickykeyboards website I have them all beat! My closest rival is an industrial from 12/1985. Still mines is 06/1985

Yeah... the pic white posted is just right
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Sun, 22 August 2010, 23:35:27
NOICE. Enter that in their database, see what they say. ;)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Mon, 23 August 2010, 00:54:31
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;215848
NOICE. Enter that in their database, see what they say. ;)


probably regect it because its a terminal keyboard and ohhh boy do they hate those!
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 23 August 2010, 05:03:25
The earliest one I had heard of was September 1985, but I knew that there were much earlier ones than that. Nice find! How much did it cost?

Might just steal that picture for the IBM Wiki.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Mon, 23 August 2010, 10:23:13
Quote from: ch_123;215887
The earliest one I had heard of was September 1985, but I knew that there were much earlier ones than that. Nice find! How much did it cost?

Might just steal that picture for the IBM Wiki.


The Ebay link is posted but I think it totaled 36.00 with shipping.

If you want wait untill I get it in and I can get you better pics including an insde look too
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 23 August 2010, 14:50:04
As I pointed out before all my posts were destroyed, what you have there is one of the first Model Ms ever made. The first one was probably only made a week or two before yours.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 23 August 2010, 20:38:31
Quote from: ch_123;215933
As I pointed out before all my posts were destroyed, what you have there is one of the first Model Ms ever made. The first one was probably only made a week or two before yours.


Even though it's not a PS/2 version, it's nice to know there are 1985 Model Ms which aren't industrial.

Very nice find indeed, $36 is fairly cheap, especially since I'm sure there's a few collectors who would like that due to the age *cough cough web cough wit*.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 24 August 2010, 07:32:27
It was established a few months ago that this was the first Model M. The September 1985 one mentioned above was of the same type. This one is interesting because it's ridiculously old...
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Tue, 24 August 2010, 09:35:12
Quote from: EverythingIBM;215969
Even though it's not a PS/2 version, it's nice to know there are 1985 Model Ms which aren't industrial.

Very nice find indeed, $36 is fairly cheap, especially since I'm sure there's a few collectors who would like that due to the age *cough cough web cough wit*.


I'll try to reach him before I mod it that way he can have it in its original incarnation.

I am more interested in keeping it but for the sake of model m history I am going t comply.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: spolia optima on Tue, 24 August 2010, 11:36:30
congrats, I'd hang on to that one if I were you.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: mr_a500 on Tue, 24 August 2010, 11:47:22
Quote from: KillerBee;215838
I bought this today looks to be the earliest model M I have seen in my computing lifetime.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250685205162 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250685205162)

Show Image
(http://www.copperlite.com/ebay_personal/ibm/img3.jpg)


Show Image
(http://www.copperlite.com/ebay_personal/ibm/img1.jpg)


Nice. Mine is exactly 1 year newer - 10JUNE86. It's a 1390120 though.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Thu, 26 August 2010, 00:16:25
contacted web wit and did some preliminary talks, I will wait untill I get it to finally decide anything.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 12:45:12
I recieved the keyboard today, its considerably heavyier than the 42H1292 upon picking it up, the keys are a bit stiffer but the click leaves something to be desired. I know it possibly clicks more than my 42H1292 but I have to wait till I get home to do a true side by side comparison.

I am really happy to have found this keyboard and plus it came with the added bonus that it is one of the earliest Model M's to be around.

Im still stuck on the debate wether to sell it or modify it to work with a PC.

HEEEEEEEEEEELP!!
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ThirdLap on Fri, 27 August 2010, 15:25:58
Quote from: KillerBee;217325
Im still stuck on the debate wether to sell it or modify it to work with a PC.

Hang on to it as part of your new collection of early Model Ms, or sell it.  Modify something else.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 19:41:59
Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiics

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4933576056_e0f2b5be1f_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/4933576244_53fb24c7bc_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4933576470_657f425df6_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4932982753_5a0b807942_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4933577866_d28baa1af5_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4932984489_e403166e0c_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4143/4932986181_37b483f002_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/4932986797_cd92acc389_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4093/4933581006_5d0bc00e81_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4933582120_44fbe09a6a_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4932987779_7178a962a8_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4932988797_7b4457f52a_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4933583308_f92fce9cfd_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/4933583690_f67d0f3967_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4933584828_b9e28c43e1_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4933584224_17a9b4208f_b.jpg)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 19:43:22
This thing was that clean when I opnened it up it looked like it was hardly used
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 20:01:25
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4932987779_7178a962a8_b.jpg)

Take a look how they scrtched off The F in Model F and wrote M next to it
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 27 August 2010, 21:39:20
Quote from: KillerBee;217481
Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4932987779_7178a962a8_b.jpg)


Take a look how they scrtched off The F in Model F and wrote M next to it


I was going to mention that, that is HILARIOUS.

If you're going to "mod" it, I would try an adapter rather than meddling with the circuitry. It would be a crime to ruin a piece of history.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 21:57:41
Quote from: EverythingIBM;217497
I was going to mention that, that is HILARIOUS.

If you're going to "mod" it, I would try an adapter rather than meddling with the circuitry. It would be a crime to ruin a piece of history.


I've done more talks with web wit, I believe he is going to keep it in the end
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Fri, 27 August 2010, 21:58:47
Wow, maybe this *was* an engineering sample. I can't see "anal retentive" IBM doing something like that for a retail model.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 22:03:54
more testing shows that the keys are indeed more stiff and the click is very soft compared to my other two model M's
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 23:04:45
Quote from: ripster;217508
As soon as you do the controller swap it's worthless. Sell it to Webwit.


You said it yourself.... Im going to sell it to web wit

I would be de-facing the same keyboard that I know and love
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 23:38:42
Quote from: ripster;217525
Technical trivia.  I'm just interested in why they have that seemingly extra header.  In the first pic the guy found it stuffed with a piece of tin foil.  Weird.


Can you re-peat that In a way that I could understand? I found a styrofoam block inside the case
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Fri, 27 August 2010, 23:49:00
its a floater, it goes nowhere!
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 00:55:34
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

What to doooooooooooooooooo!?!?!

Confusion is setting in!!
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 01:11:48
Quote from: ripster;217535
Thx.  I was just kinda curious - strange piece of IBM engineering there.  Anyway it confirms that the main module is a standard IBM Model M.  Just the PCB, cable, and the little SDL hole insert are different.

I really like those numpad keys.  Some strange symbols there.
Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/4933576244_53fb24c7bc_b.jpg)


I might be able to get you a set, I will confirm you next week. This is from a terminal keyboard that dad cannabalized 2 weeks ago.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 28 August 2010, 05:15:21
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;217501
Wow, maybe this *was* an engineering sample. I can't see "anal retentive" IBM doing something like that for a retail model.


Nah, you can see plenty of examples of IBM using 'leftovers' when they went from one design to another. Look at the weird mix of cases with/without drainage holes with internals that had/didn't have drainage channels.

Awesome pics btw.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 09:02:54
Quote from: kishy;217536
If you had patience like I would strongly recommend, you would be well advised to tuck it in the closet until the inline converter is ready to go public. It's usable currently and in finished state will kick ass.


I am going to keep the keyboard
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 09:31:35
Quote from: ripster;217596
How much did WW offer?


PM sent
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 28 August 2010, 14:01:35
Quote from: KillerBee;217600
PM sent


Well that's a good decision.

Can't let webwit have them all, you know.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 14:04:14
Read Below
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 14:33:37
Web wit I want no problems with you or the other members it is true I did pack the keyboard last night and I did place some considerable thought to your offer, the only thing I didn’t like was the "refurbished or as-is condition" of the board I am receiving.

I am giving you something that it’s in great shape and In return receiving a board that is "as-is" that’s why I had my doubts and got cold feet about the situation.

I am not asking for an uber rare keyboard all I want is another NO-LED Model M with the aluminum logo and that the birth cert. be around 1986.

The model m is boxed and ready to go I just want something worthwhile not just a random board. I have no experience with Brian O'Neal but I have heard good things about him.

I know nothing about what you did or why you left all I am here for is to share my love for the model m not to cause problems with you.

I like the feel of the model m that I found:
IF IN YOUR VAST KNOWLEGE OF MODEL M'S YOU CAN CONFIRM THAT THE LATER MODEL M (1986) FEEL THE SAME I AM WILLING TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE AND COMPLETE THIS TRANSACTION.

I am sorry if I made you feel bad that’s the way I am I am a very undeceive person I am sorry and believe I get persuaded very easily.

I know that even if I keep it I won’t be able to use the keyboard because I have very little knowledge on how to do a controller swap or adapt a cable to make it work so either I send it to you or its going to stay boxed up.

Please accept my apology and forward me your shipping address to prepare to ship it by Monday morning.

I am not a keyboard collector like you and I believe it’s going to be worthless for me to own such a treasure without it being appreciated by someone who will really take full advance of it.


Please I am really sorry for all the trouble but I would like to complete the transaction.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 14:35:28
I believe this is the best for all of us since I know taht I am going to ruin a piece of history if I try to change the controller or the cable and that would not be fair for you guys that really take pride in collecting keyboards.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 28 August 2010, 14:58:52
Quote from: ripster;217535
I really like those numpad keys.  Some strange symbols there.
Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/4933576244_53fb24c7bc_b.jpg)


I think they are line drawing symbols. The 3270s appeared to make a big deal out of this functionality, thus the "Rule Home" key and others.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 17:39:43
Boxed up and ready to go anyone at this point I sent several messages to web wit but no avail

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4121/4936073766_e66774d72b.jpg)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 28 August 2010, 17:40:44
its double boxed bubble wrapped and with peanuts
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: WhiteRice on Sat, 28 August 2010, 19:58:06
Quote from: KillerBee;217704
Boxed up and ready to go anyone at this point I sent several messages to web wit but no avail

Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4121/4936073766_e66774d72b.jpg)
GATTAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/wisemasterwang/Anime/1181120612480.gif)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 29 August 2010, 17:58:42
usps finest!

EDIT:

Sent messages to clickykeyboards and rarekeyboards stores to see what they say about this old timer
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Sun, 29 August 2010, 18:15:27
That's a very nice find.  If I were you I'd keep it boxed up safe and sound :D
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 29 August 2010, 18:17:18
Quote from: KillerBee;217994
usps finest!

EDIT:

Sent messages to clickykeyboards and rarekeyboards stores to see what they say about this old timer


Both are going to say "Hurr, terminal keybard" (well, BON might try and convert it, which would be even worse). I'd keep on to it yourself for now.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Sun, 29 August 2010, 18:21:20
Yes, the time will come, but now is not that time.

The magic-markered F -> M designation is possibly one of a kind, and along with the DOB makes this board VERY collectible.  I would never offer this board up in a trade, either.  If you want another board, buy one.  If you want to pass this on to a collector, just sell it straight up.  No one will have anything to trade with as much COLLECTIBLE value.  

The earliest known Model M is a pretty cool thing to own.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Sun, 29 August 2010, 18:31:02
This thread reminds me of something...

oh yeah, now I remember

webwit
(http://nds-emulation.com/wp-content/mitchell.jpg)

killerbee
(http://striderdemme.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/picture.jpg?w=374&h=283)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 29 August 2010, 19:25:13
he was famous and cool because of the ms pac-man record. and this other guy well... he just a regular shmuck
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 29 August 2010, 19:26:26
webwit = cool guy (world-renown Model M Guru)

killerbee = undecisive prick (only known for his old ass model m)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 29 August 2010, 23:10:08
Picked up a 12 May 86 1390120 for a cool 40.00 today

I own 4 model M's now!

When I joined GH all I had was 1 model M now I have 4 and the oldest one too
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Mon, 30 August 2010, 00:00:56
Quote from: ripster;218116
Technically you own an old terminal keyboard.  But if it makes you happy I'm happy.

Webwit does not appear happy.

And Kishy sure deserves his asshat for getting in the middle of a business transaction.



I'll tell you what I still feel weird about the whole ordeal and still have mixed feelings about this keyboard.

BIG Part of me says SELL SELL SELL while a little midget says keep
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 30 August 2010, 01:22:45
I honestly don't think kishy meant any harm...  I think he was just making sure that killerbee realized what he had before he sold it and regretted it.  Maybe I've misinterpreted the situation.  I'm not sure about my feelings on the active/inactive contributing/noncontributing member of the forum part...  in the end only kishy knows his intentions, and crucifying him doesn't help anyone.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 30 August 2010, 08:55:46
Tank what deal?
What's Walter talking about, Dude?
What's wrong with that duck, Walter?
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 30 August 2010, 17:40:29
ripster: I have a man-crush on you in a totally hetero way...  Your use of Lebowski-isms endears you to me so very much.  Once again, totally in a straight way, but yeah, mad crushin' on you, bro.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: kishy on Mon, 30 August 2010, 18:18:52
Edit: post numbers no longer match up, because webwit's account and posts have been deleted and I have removed ones of my own that are no longer relevant because of that.

After some calming time and review of forum posts, PMs and my own memory, there's something that I need to say regarding what happened earlier in the thread.

In reply #32 I had originally been attempting to communicate two indepedent points, not related to each other whatsoever. Those two points were:


However, because the two points were combined in one post, it tends to read a little differently:


That was never my intent in writing the post. It was not and continues to not be my belief (well, truthfully, after the way webwit responded this is not entirely true).

All of this is completely beside the point that I was unaware of exactly "how done" the deal was at the time that I wrote the post. Had I known that webwit had already gone to considerable lengths to prepare to fulfill his end of the deal, or that any actual commitment had been made, I never would have made the remarks I did (regardless of validity, making them would be of significant disrespect to both parties and indeed interfering with a business transaction, something that I agree with webwit, should be ban-worthy).

In the end, what happened here is indeed my fault. I made remarks that, given the status of the deal, never should have been made.

As I have already done privately, I would like to publicly offer my sincere apology to webwit for disrupting this transaction and creating additional complications for him as a result. I hope that in the future we can work past this.

As I have not yet done but really ought to, I would also like to apologize to KillerBee for the same.

As has been said, I did not disrupt the deal for personal gain, or even intentionally. This stemmed from a series of relatively minor misunderstandings and became something considerably worse.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Mon, 30 August 2010, 21:55:24
Kishy, you did me a favor by telling me "wake up and smell the keyboard"

I'll leave you the keaboard in my will
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Mon, 30 August 2010, 21:59:18
Clickykeyboards.com says:
Hi Bryan,

Thanks for contacting us.

Interesting find.. but we primarily focus on PC-compatible model M keyboards and although it is a model M from 1985, the 1386304 is not PC-compatible.

You should list item on ebay and you might get a good sale.. especially if you allow for Japanese and Korean buyers.

Best regards,
Brandon Ermita

rarekeyboard store says:
Dear bryang.tech,

It is not a POS din - it is definately regular. Besides - I gave you a PS/2 cord anyways.  As stated clearly in my ad, no returns.

Brian Oniell thinks that I bought the keyboard from him and he is defending himself for no reason! hahahahah

While Brandon shines with his wisdom
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 30 August 2010, 22:16:36
Quote from: KillerBee;218421
Clickykeyboards.com says:
Hi Bryan,

Thanks for contacting us.

Interesting find.. but we primarily focus on PC-compatible model M keyboards and although it is a model M from 1985, the 1386304 is not PC-compatible.

You should list item on ebay and you might get a good sale.. especially if you allow for Japanese and Korean buyers.

Best regards,
Brandon Ermita

rarekeyboard store says:
Dear bryang.tech,

It is not a POS din - it is definately regular. Besides - I gave you a PS/2 cord anyways.  As stated clearly in my ad, no returns.

Brian Oniell thinks that I bought the keyboard from him and he is defending himself for no reason! hahahahah

While Brandon shines with his wisdom


That's funny. Poor Brian. He's had a long day with grumpy buyers: "I thought PS/2 meant it was for playstation 2" and all that nonsense.

Well, you should have told brandon there's a USB converter in development to run all terminal keyboards natively.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 30 August 2010, 22:26:18
Wow, I know where I'm spending my money.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Tue, 31 August 2010, 17:49:07
clickykeyboards.com says

Hi Bryan,

A simple 1390120 controller swap into the 1386304 might work.

As to if it will increase or decrease the value, it would depend on the buyer.

We try to be very conservative in selecting and preparing keyboards for sale on clickykeyboards.com.   We have heard of other sellers who have other priorities and they have taken the innards of a more common 1993 IBM model M 1391401 (Made by Lexmark) and then tried to put them inside of a more rare 1986 IBM model M 1390131 (Made by IBM) to "increase the value".

As the majority of our buyers are interested in authentic model M keyboards and they look to the keyboard label for important info, I would probably recommend that you try to keep the keyboard as original as possible and try to do minimal mods to the keyboard.

If you do swap the controller, I would be careful to advise prospective buyers of the mod and to document the process so as not to confuse future keyboard enthuasiats as to the 1386304.

Best regards,
Brandon Ermita
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Thu, 02 September 2010, 01:13:57
Well this post in its entirety is being typed on the IBM Model M 1386304 from 1985, using the controller from a IBM Model M 1390120 from 1986.


Love me or hate me the only way I can express my feelings is in spanish:

¿Se puede complacer a toda la gente? ¡Definitivamente NO! Cada quien y cada cual piensa y actúa según le venga a bien y como dice el dicho: "Entre gustos y colores, no han escrito los autores"

Esta corta historia narra la incómoda situación de un Abuelo con su nieto y un borrico... ¿Cómo complacer a la gente que se van encontrando por el camino? Al final, el Abuelo decide seguir como les convenga y dejar que la gente les critique como quiera, al fín y al cabo no pueden complacerlos y mejor es que cada quien viva y actúe según su conciencia...
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: EverythingIBM on Thu, 02 September 2010, 01:22:59
Well that's nice.

And you can always put the original controller back in when need be.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sat, 04 September 2010, 04:13:17
They must have changed something between 1985 and 86

Because as I type on this post with the 85 it really feels very different when compared to a model m from 86 or 95 which are the other two that I own

I feel the click, and hear it too but it is not as clacky as a 95 or the 86 for that matter. I think the other model m's are very rattly this feels very sturdy too.

OR I COULD GO ON A WHIM... since this keyboard is so fresh and new thats why it feels like that. (which I doubt)

Anyone with a very early 86 care to chime in? mines is May 86 and it does not feel the same as the June 85 model m

its a very subdued click (if thats the right word)

I would not say muffled its more of a gentile click instead of the more acustomed clacka-clacka!
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 04 September 2010, 07:06:18
Model Ms in good condition are comparatively quiet, but given some wear and tear and broken rivets, the backplate comes slightly loose from the upper half, and there's more reverberation.

Model Ms made from 1985 to about 1988 are basically the same thing.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 05 September 2010, 20:49:50
Pics of the 1985 with the family

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=220229#post220229 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=220229#post220229)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 05 September 2010, 22:07:37
Quote from: KillerBee;219796
They must have changed something between 1985 and 86

Because as I type on this post with the 85 it really feels very different when compared to a model m from 86 or 95 which are the other two that I own

I feel the click, and hear it too but it is not as clacky as a 95 or the 86 for that matter. I think the other model m's are very rattly this feels very sturdy too.

OR I COULD GO ON A WHIM... since this keyboard is so fresh and new thats why it feels like that. (which I doubt)

Anyone with a very early 86 care to chime in? mines is May 86 and it does not feel the same as the June 85 model m

its a very subdued click (if thats the right word)

I would not say muffled its more of a gentile click instead of the more acustomed clacka-clacka!


Mine is an 86 April one, it's extraordinarily loud and clattery (but it is missing rivets; I know at least one). Because of that, some areas of the board sound different than others -- and each key's spring has a different "tune" to it.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 05 September 2010, 22:10:36
what ch_123 said looks to be a correct answer because there cant be a difference when they are all exactly the same.

Maybe this thing is sooooo NEW that it clicks differently
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: didjamatic on Sun, 05 September 2010, 22:15:39
I have quite a lot of model M's and there is a definite range in feel/sound between them... even between the same models made in the same year, same month.

I attribute it more to the environment they've come from and whether they've been crushed in storage or shipment, breaking rivets and separating/tweaking internals.  They're so durable you can't see damage on the outside, but you can feel the difference or in my case I usually hear it.  Mostly in the ping/reverb after keystrokes.

Now you need to get yourself a space saving Model M and a Model F AT.  :)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 05 September 2010, 22:20:58
Quote from: didjamatic;220247
Now you need to get yourself a space saving Model M and a Model F AT.  :)


MMM... Space-Saving, I guess I can buy it for the wife for her PC... Let see what she has to say?
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 06 September 2010, 00:51:51
hm, this recurring point of the different feel to what should be pretty similar model m's brings me to a question i've not seen here before... does anyone CLEAN their model m springs, and if so, how and with what results?  I'm imagining even a "like new" board from the mid 80s would have some signs of aging, and possibly some deterioration or dust/debris on the springs.  Has anyone developed a method for cleaning the springs that won't cause further harm?
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 06 September 2010, 14:45:36
Yeah it is...  I have no idea what they're made of so it's probably a useless thought as far as rust/etc, but I can easily see stuff getting caught in the coils (dust, etc) after 20+ years(25 in this case), no matter how good the design, and perhaps even affect the mechanism, which has been proven to have very tight tolerances.  Oh well, just a thought :D
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Mon, 06 September 2010, 15:33:56
Ive been tinkering plenty with my M's and I have yet to see debris or dust inside the spring
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 06 September 2010, 15:40:21
Those springs are well covered up, so unless something gets into them when you have the keycaps removed, they do not need to be cleaned.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Sun, 12 September 2010, 03:36:48
Well after recieving the controller for Kishy to get my May 86 back on line I noticed that even if I type with the May 86 or the 42H1292 I like the key feel of the 1985 board I dont know if its because its more pingy and less noisy but it generally feels better than any other M that I own
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 06 December 2010, 02:12:06
What happened to webwit? I was looking forward to battling him again and he hasn't posted in a long time. Was he banned? Does he have a new handle?
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 06 December 2010, 02:48:54
webwit left because a vendor edited a post.

EDITED FOR FACTUAL ERROR
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: iMav on Mon, 06 December 2010, 03:28:26
Quote from: ricercar;257913
AFAIK webwit left because iMav edited a post. iMav put it back, but webwit was long gone.
Wrong.

The post in question was in a vendor forum.  The vendor edited the post (they have moderator access to their forum).

I don't edit posts.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 06 December 2010, 03:33:51
Oh well. Anyone know another place he hangs out? I'm itching for a fight.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Mon, 06 December 2010, 08:21:30
I thought he left because I did not agree to sell him the 1985 Model M

(kidding, kidding dont hurt me webwit..... runs and hides)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: Rhaullan on Mon, 06 December 2010, 08:24:57
I've seen him around OCN.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: didjamatic on Mon, 06 December 2010, 10:13:28
It was me who edited the post when he got upset about me doing a keyboard giveaway saying I was being an attention ****.  I removed it trying to keep that thread about the fun contest then shortly afterward I restored his posts in all their glory.

I talked to him in PM and he said he had no issue with me and said not to worry that he was only taking a break.

IIRC he returned briefly and had issues with one or more geekhackers then left.

I dont know if it was me, killer bee, or the aspergers thread that caused him to leave but in my mind everything was cleared up between he and I.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 06 December 2010, 13:44:20
Quote from: iMav;257918
Wrong.

The post in question was in a vendor forum.  The vendor edited the post (they have moderator access to their forum).

I don't edit posts.


Apologies for spreading mis-information. It seemed totally out of character.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: ironman31 on Mon, 06 December 2010, 15:11:06
Hopefully there's no more geekhack drama like that again
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: iMav on Mon, 06 December 2010, 16:12:12
He only came back to purchase that keyboard from KillerBee...and then got upset when others tried to convince KB not to sell it.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 06 December 2010, 16:55:14
As far as sales and stuff go, in my experience anyway, webwit was always a stand up guy. I would buy something from him right now and feel confident that what I paid for would come as described and in a timely manner. His flaw is his personality — I've known dead hookers who were more personable. See why I miss him so?
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 06 December 2010, 18:49:03
Quote from: xsphat;257920
I'm itching for a fight.


keyboardlover is who you're looking for.

i think i owe you an email, btw
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 06 December 2010, 18:58:33
Quote from: Rhaullan;257978
I've seen him around OCN.


love the avatar, rhaullan
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: mr_a500 on Mon, 06 December 2010, 21:03:43
Quote from: KillerBee;219084
Well this post in its entirety is being typed on the IBM Model M 1386304 from 1985, using the controller from a IBM Model M 1390120 from 1986..


Bah! I thought your June 1985 Model M was PC compatible. The fact that you had to swap controllers ruins it for me.

As for comparing early '86 Model M vs. later models - my June 10 1986 Model M has a nearly identical feel to my July 1991 Model M. My 1984 IBM AT Model F (used to type this) blows them both away.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Tue, 07 December 2010, 09:16:29
Quote from: mr_a500;258387
Bah! I thought your June 1985 Model M was PC compatible. The fact that you had to swap controllers ruins it for me.

As for comparing early '86 Model M vs. later models - my June 10 1986 Model M has a nearly identical feel to my July 1991 Model M. My 1984 IBM AT Model F (used to type this) blows them both away.


Believe me if you would feel how nice this board feels you would swap it too just to use it
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: KillerBee on Tue, 07 December 2010, 10:54:29
Quote from: ripster;258648
I recommend banning Xsphat for necro posting.


Can you expand on the thought of necro posting... I will have to google that word in order to know what it is.

edit: I now know what it is
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 07 December 2010, 11:38:46
It's not like my public polls are revealing anything sensitive. Does it really matter if somebody knows a person uses Mozilla for Internet browsing and doesn't like download managers from Adobe?

I think it's kind of ridiculous how you spam the forum and then complain about my polls. Clean up your own act before you whine about mine.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 07 December 2010, 11:48:56
I'll do my polls however I want. If you don't like them, there's nobody forcing you to vote in them.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 07 December 2010, 13:21:01
i vote for whoever's losing.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 07 December 2010, 13:29:42
Loser.
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 07 December 2010, 13:50:17
Quote from: itlnstln;258855
Loser.


yep. thats why i always vote for myself ;)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 07 December 2010, 20:56:23
I'm surprised we don't here the term "necropost" mentioned here more often.  Most forums have people post things like this whenever it happens:

(http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/28439/original/15209d1247204376-indian-army-vs-american-army-holy_necroposting_batman.jpg?1259372664)
Title: Bought a Model M from 1985
Post by: iMav on Wed, 15 December 2010, 19:37:17
Quote from: ripster;258281
I goof around with him all the time at OCN.

His language is much improved. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=11707&highlight=webwit)


I was actually sad to see webwit go.  I always thought (and still believe) that the good out weighed the bad.  His name calling and over-the-top, indignant rants were always amusing.  (although referring to me as a rapist (http://www.overclock.net/11645548-post114.html) is certainly not his high point).  

I often wonder if he is anything like his bipolar online identity in RL.