geekhack

geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: ilikestring on Sat, 28 August 2010, 09:27:37

Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: ilikestring on Sat, 28 August 2010, 09:27:37
Hello,

I have come requesting your expertise on the difference (or the extent of the difference) between these two.
As I am from the UK, I will be getting these from Amazon.co.uk (as I have not found anywhere cheaper.)

Kensington Expert Mouse (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-Expert-Mouse-Trackball-compatible/dp/B00009KH63/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1283005202&sr=8-9)
Kensington SlimBlade (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-K72327US-SlimBlade-Trackball/dp/B001MTE32Y/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1283005202&sr=8-6)

I (think I) am prepared to pay the ~ £25 difference between the two if it's worth it but I am leaning towards the KEM because I am poor :(
What do you think, GH, is it worth it?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: washuai on Sat, 28 August 2010, 20:40:41
I haven't used either.  I do know that the Expert Mouse has four out of five stars, versus three out of five for the slimblade on Amazon US reviews.  

For some reason, even before that, I thought the slimblade was not the better device, so I'm surprised to find out it is pricier.  The fact EM has dipped below the 70 mark makes me hopeful, that worse case scenario, work will get me an expert mouse as my ambidextrous trackball.  The kensington orbit has been extremely annoying to me.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 29 August 2010, 01:57:36
yes the orbit sucks if you are liking the larger trackballs.  Its really unfortunate that Kensington didn't better differentiate between different iterations of their product line though.  I don't even know which version # of the Expert they are up to (mine is a ver 5), or if the Slimblade has more than one like every other trackball they have made (making it a very arduous task to compare the proper versions and pricing or even have a coherent discussion about them and be certain we are all referring to the same product.)

I do know (I think) that there is a wireless expert version and no scroll ring on the slimblade, but both are having the 2" spheres and 4 buttons?  Scrolling on the blade is a twisting motion of the ball instead of the ring, so i am guessing biggest differences are in the profile of the device and hand positioning/motion since they are the same mechanism for bearings and optical reading afaik.  i would imagine that choosing between those two depends largely on comfort for your personal preferences more than feature set, but that is a speculation since I've only briefly been introduced to the newer Experts and not at all to the Blade.

EDIT>> Apparently the custom button function is not available via the Blade - check this discussion:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/409294-kensington-slimblade-expertmouse-best-trackball-logic-9-a.html
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Zalusithix on Thu, 02 September 2010, 21:58:43
Quote from: washuai;217740
I haven't used either.  I do know that the Expert Mouse has four out of five stars, versus three out of five for the slimblade on Amazon US reviews.  

For some reason, even before that, I thought the slimblade was not the better device, so I'm surprised to find out it is pricier.  The fact EM has dipped below the 70 mark makes me hopeful, that worse case scenario, work will get me an expert mouse as my ambidextrous trackball.  The kensington orbit has been extremely annoying to me.


Just looking at the Amazon review score average doesn't do any good here. The Slimblade was (rightfully) panned for having shoddy driver software on its release that had absolutely no customization ability baked in. It took forever and a day for Kensington to address that problem, and in the mean time got its ass handed to it in a lot of reviews. Those problems have been largely resolved now, so the old reviews dragging down the score are no longer of use when deciding.

That and the Slimblade was set as Kensington's premier trackball from day one. It's more advanced, and better designed from a hardware perspective when compared to the Expert. It's just a pity that they messed up the software so damn bad out of the gate.

Quote from: Voixdelion
since they are the same mechanism for bearings and optical reading afaik
Bearings are housed differently, and the optical reading is not the same. The Slimblade uses two sensors that allow it to track the twisting motion needed for scrolling. One sensor handles vertical movement and spin (top), and the other handles horizontal movement (side).
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Arc'xer on Thu, 02 September 2010, 23:48:32
Orbit sucks so much it's laughable. I was toying around with the idea of using a trackball sometime late last year. And while I really was considering it for gaming.

Even on desktop the orbit would be horrible it would not only skip if you spun it fast enough even at a relatively small bursts of speed. But if you moved it quickly enough to either side it would cause the engine to temporarily go crazy and you had to wait a moment for the engine to return to normal, reminded me of this old logitech click that had an older optical engine and would have similar issues if you flicked it hard enough to one side.

I ended up returning it was gonna get the expert to test it out but decided not to waste the 70 or 80 dollars it costs worried that it'll just have the same issues. Unfortunately it just seems like trackballs were left in the dust and no one has really developed them much except for a few niche industrial and arcade makers like CST and whatnot but pricey compared to a nice gaming mouse.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: washuai on Sat, 04 September 2010, 04:04:26
Yes, the fact that if you spin the ball too fast, the orbit stops reading it, is definitely one of its other obnoxious features.  Still, unlike Logitech's ambidextrous offering, the orbit doesn't hurt me where my fingers connect at the knuckle to my hand and it didn't cost me, anything.  Work wanted to be cheap, they just don't get that it is cheaper to buy the right longer lasting product in the first place, than buy 3 crap products first.  Needless to say, I'd still let them take away the orbit, before I relinquished the MSFT Optical Trackball Explorer.

Yes, the $165 for the CST L-Trac-X versus $30 for 3500 dpi Death Adder (and my death adder comes with its two extra buttons), is a huge gap.  Although, the CST is industrial build quality, so it will undoubtably outlast a death adder.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Irie on Sat, 04 September 2010, 08:27:05
can anyone fill me in on the advantages of a trackball over a mouse?
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: washuai on Sat, 04 September 2010, 12:24:01
Quote from: Irie;219811
can anyone fill me in on the advantages of a trackball over a mouse?

Trackballs do not care much about what surface they sit on, as long as it isn't something they can fall off of.
You don't move a trackball, so they can fit into very small space.
In a game, there is a 180 or 360 turning advantage (less so, when the trackball is super behind in dpi).
Trackballs often provide ergonomic benefits, reducing RSI problems, over mice.
A super tiny trackball, might generally be better than a super tiny mouse, but a trackpoint beats them both.

Trackballs, especially because the technology hasn't advanced as fast, also have some disadvantages.
The most obvious being that they are technologically behind mice, while costing more.
Another issue in the world of optical and laser, is that even though trackballs are now optical or laser, they still require more cleaning than a mouse, where one used to be able to get away with cleaning them less.

Scrolling on trackballs is often different.  Depending on the trackball and your personal tastes, this can be worse or better than mice.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Irie on Sat, 04 September 2010, 12:59:17
what do you like about using the trackball taht makes you neglect you beloved moouse, rippy mon?
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 04 September 2010, 18:13:11
Quote from: ripster;219879
Moouse?

MEANWHILE IN CANADA...
Show Image
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/matious1/moose-at-Mcdonalds-only-in-Canada.jpg)


Actually the scroll wheel on mine is killer and having 5 buttons (including a REAL middle button) is Mo Bettah for me.  Wouldn't ever game with it though.  You'd have to be weird to do that.


Meanwhile... in the States:
(http://www.bbqsaucereviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/12-16-07-mcdonalds-fun.gif)

OM NOM MCDONALD
(http://klik.tv/app/webroot/upload/Fat_Donald_by_DonMak.jpg)
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 04 September 2010, 18:49:23
With those 2 keep in mind most of the negatives about the slimblade were due to them having crappy software that was very limited and buggy (based on what I have read)  I believe this is improved now.  The ExpertMouse is very popular and Ripster posted a scroll mod that I will definitely do if I get one.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 04 September 2010, 19:28:01
Quote from: ripster;219983
Where I live we have morbidly obese Vegans.

This is quite a feat.


Is it even possible to get overweight from veggies? Maybe the vegans you're speaking of think a big mac is considered vegetarian.

But man, big macs are pretty good (mind you, I haven't aten one in like 10 years).
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Irie on Sat, 04 September 2010, 21:03:27
sure its possible. you just need to eat a lot of white bread or some bull**** and your get fat as a mother and at the same time suffer from iron insufficiencies. vegan is retarded as brick
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 04 September 2010, 21:13:05
Quote from: Irie;220019
sure its possible. you just need to eat a lot of white bread or some bull**** and your get fat as a mother and at the same time suffer from iron insufficiencies. vegan is retarded as brick


I think people who don't eat a particular kind of food OTHER than personal taste to be ridiculous (usually people with some crazy religious ideas or retarded things like "animal equality;" give a cow rights and it wouldn't even care for it does not have the comprehension of even the most basic tasks such as the English language).  
But I still don't think it's possible to get fat from solely vegetables. Unless you deep fry and butter them up!
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Zalusithix on Sat, 04 September 2010, 23:22:42
Quote from: ripster;219989
Actually the big negative used to be NO software for Vista or Win7.

Like duh, Kensington.


They had software for Vista/7. It just sucked. Badly. ('Twas that one that locked you into the view/multimedia modes for the top buttons.)
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Irie on Sun, 05 September 2010, 08:33:09
from veggies alone not of course, that doesnt seem possible unless the subject has a huge stomach volumn and stuffs his face with veggies all daylike a cow or koala. i thought we were talking about vegan food in general

(http://www.bradleyb.net/images/vegan.jpg)
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 05 September 2010, 08:35:50
A lot of hurf-durfing was made over the scroll wheel and some other random ****. I found none of the mentioned issues to be important in the end when I actually got it.

YMMV, and then some.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Funnykids on Mon, 06 September 2010, 05:40:56
I got my Slimblade yesterday, this is my first trackball. I use the same set up that Ripster suggested somewhere before : use trackball on my left and a mouse on my right hand side.

 For the first hour, I have to force myself not to use the mouse but the trackball instead, and my hand wrist feel tired. But I guess this is because I have never use my left hand for any task like this before, and my hand position not get used to the track ball yet.

 The good thing is since my left hand not get used to the mouse either :) so it make friend with the trackball quickly. And in the evening I have develop a really odd habit : when my hands not on the keyboard, I put my left on the track ball and the right on my mouse .... (WTF ...)

 I have not use the KEM before, so I not sure how great is the ring, but I really enjoy scrolling with the ball. Put one finger on the top of the ball, the other finger roll it :) I think it is much easier than using the normal ring. The software also work fine, do not have any problem like others reported.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: YetAnotherDeveloper on Fri, 11 February 2011, 20:50:50
Quote from: ripster;220359
I've noticed software programmers are kinda slow.



Hey, watch it!
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 11 February 2011, 20:52:50
He has something against developers. Prbly cuz he could never so what we do.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: molto on Mon, 30 May 2011, 23:11:44
That was a pretty slow response yetanotherdeveloper
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: davkol on Fri, 18 May 2012, 17:27:39
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: Surnia on Sat, 19 May 2012, 01:06:22
Don't know how applicable it is, but the scroll ring on my Orbit was decent at the beginning... then it utterly UTTERLY sucked after a month. For the span of about two weeks it was as bad as it was in Ripster's video... Magically, one day it suddenly became super smooth, and has been gliding perfectly since.
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: boli on Sat, 19 May 2012, 08:30:23
I'm currently trying out an Expert Mouse at work, had been using a Slimblade for about 1 month.

The Slimblade is pretty nice and my favorite trackball of the ones I tested so far, which at this point is only one other: Logitech Cordless Optical Trackman. Scrolling was easy to get used to, but impossible to do without moving the pointer.

The Expert Mouse doesn't have this problem obviously, and the scroll ring is pretty nice to use - other than the sound it makes - ripster's video from a page back is dead on.

I very slightly prefer the Slimblade's buttons for the following reasons:
- they all meet, so you can't press in between two buttons easily, and it looks better IMO
- they're flat. The Expert Mouse buttons have a ridge in their surface, which doesn't feel as nice.

Both are nice trackballs. The Expert Mouse is a bit higher, which made me use the included wrist rest, which feels pretty good. The somewhat flatter Slimblade was comfortable to use without any wrist rest.

For now I prefer the Expert Mouse, despite the scrolling noise, but I'm not done testing. :)
Title: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: kurplop on Sun, 20 May 2012, 00:06:50
When I was looking for a trackball, the bad reviews regarding the Slimblade's drivers led me to buy the Expert Mouse which I've been using for two years. Some warned about  the scratchy scroll ring while others praised the genius of it's scroll ring. I was anxious to draw my own conclusions.

When I first tried the KEM, the ring was rough but not as much as the one demonstrated in the video. I agree, for the cost it should be smoother, it felt cheap, but it has gradually improved and now I think it feels ideal.

A bigger concern for me was when I first tried it the positive angle of the base forced me to bend my wrist back to an uncomfortable angle. A lifetime of swinging a hammer, hitting things, CTS, and arthritis have left me with some ergo concerns. The reason I got the KEM was to help solve my wrist pain and instead within minutes I knew I wouldn't be able to use it as is, with or without the wrist pad.

The solution for me was to recess the trackball into my keyboard tray so that it sits flat in the tray top. While I was at it I also sloped the right side of the tray about 20 degrees. Now my hands rests naturally on the trackball, straight wrist, slightly twisted. Making these modifications also positioned the top of the ball at the same height as the top of the keyboard keys, making it very efficient moving from keyboard to trackball. I'd send pictures but I don't think I'm allowed to yet.

 Now, two years later, I wouldn't think of going back to a mouse.
Title: Re: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: pattulus on Sat, 05 March 2016, 00:14:37
Quote from: kurplop on Sun, 20 May 2012, 00:06:50
A bigger concern for me was when I first tried it the positive angle of the base forced me to bend my wrist back to an uncomfortable angle. A lifetime of swinging a hammer, hitting things, CTS, and arthritis have left me with some ergo concerns. The reason I got the KEM was to help solve my wrist pain and instead within minutes I knew I wouldn't be able to use it as is, with or without the wrist pad.

The solution for me was to recess the trackball into my keyboard tray so that it sits flat in the tray top. While I was at it I also sloped the right side of the tray about 20 degrees. Now my hands rests naturally on the trackball, straight wrist, slightly twisted. Making these modifications also positioned the top of the ball at the same height as the top of the keyboard keys, making it very efficient moving from keyboard to trackball. I'd send pictures but I don't think I'm allowed to yet.

I'm sorry for digging up this thread/corpse, but I'm really interested in @kurplop's setup and would like to ask for some pictures. I have a nice big wrist rest and a wondered if it is enough for the expert or if I need another wrist raiser.

I'm also in the CTS camp and worry about health issues. I already dismissed a trackpad and  a M570 due to wrist pain. Currently the Evoluent Vertical mouse delivers the best results, but I really want to give a non-thumb trackball a go. Wrist-wise, the scrolling of the KEM looks superior to the Slimblade and CST's.
Title: Re: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: davkol on Sat, 05 March 2016, 04:35:56
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum
Title: Re: Kensington Expert Mouse or Kensington SlimBlade
Post by: pattulus on Sat, 05 March 2016, 06:17:39
Quote from: davkol on Sat, 05 March 2016, 04:35:56
Just type "kurplop tray" in Google Image search. One of the first results leads to his Flickr album (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kurplop/sets/72157633538408496/).

Thanks for the pointer. I'm impressed — these mods on his Flickr are just stunning. @kurplop improved and customized the hell out of the Ergodox + Trackball merger idea.