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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: Voixdelion on Sun, 29 August 2010, 02:19:24

Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 29 August 2010, 02:19:24: My mom has decided she wants to get a wireless router instead of being tethered to her ethernet cord so she can actually use her laptop in a portable fashion in the house as opposed to being stuck at her desk. I haven't dealt with Mac for a while other than the occasional helping mom with something dumb and have not actually gotten a wireless router for myself yet, so is there anything that might make an ibookG4 like any brand of router less than a PC might for whatever reason or is that as cross-platform friendly as her cable modem? She's gotten a suggestion from the about.com pages questionaire for a 802.11g Netgear WGR614 and when I told her how much that would cost she was almost not even caring if the thing only worked for like six months. Any reason she shouldn't go with one of these? If so what instead?

She's not able to figure stuff out, so a set it and forget it situation is ideal since I'll have to set it and she can just use it without complications.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 29 August 2010, 03:11:13: The only problem a mom-class person might have is the password. Have her use a hex value password instead of an string password. This is because a string won't evaluate the same way by MacOS X and Windows wireless software.

For example, MacOS X wireless software encodes the password string "Yotjar" as 57:FC:B3:56:5E hex, while a linksys router encodes the string "Yotjar" as 34:6D:2E:23:7A hex (a little inaccuracy saves a lot of explanation).

If your mom uses 57:FC:B3:56:5E directly, then the whole password encoding issue is avoided.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Stone on Sun, 29 August 2010, 07:16:50: ^^ Exactly this (or alternatively use a router that lets you set a WPA-PSK Preshared Key directly - then when you type the same thing in OSX it 'just works').

I've found OSX to be a lot less picky than Windows with wifi stuff - so long as the kit is from a reasonably decent make and is standards-compliant you should be fine. I use a really old and creaky Speedtouch 780 for my wifi devices and I've only ever had problems because the router itself is a complete piece of ****, not with the OS.

FYI I use a PowerBook G4 as my main laptop so this all applies to both PPC and Intel Macs.

Stone
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Sun, 29 August 2010, 12:00:05: I've never owned or used a Netgear WGR614, but looking at reviews it seems to be one of those "love it or hate it" products. Seems to work wonderfully for some and basically not at all for others. Perhaps this is related to client device chipsets, don't know. I like to read through available user reviews for issues like this to improve my chances of getting a solid product.

There is almost always a deal going on routers especially if an 802.11g like the WGR614 is all you need. For example, today 1saleaday (http://wireless.1saleaday.com/) has the Linksys WRTU54G-TM 802.11g router for $9.99 plus $5 shipping, seems like a solid router. It was originally solid through T-Mobile and has some VIOP features which really aren't useful unless you have T-Mobile but the router part still works fine. For deals like this I periodically check deal web sites such as fatwallet (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals) and slickdeals (http://slickdeals.net/).

I personally prefer routers that will run my favorite firmware Tomato. The official Tomato runs on a fairly restricted number of routers as described in the Tomato FAQ (http://www.polarcloud.com/tomatofaq#what_will_this_run_on). The "Tomato USB" K26 (Linux 2.6 kernel) version adds support for a number of newer routers as shown in the compatibility table here (http://tomatousb.org/doc:build-types). You don't HAVE to run Tomato on these, you can always stick with the vendor firmware or go with something like dd-wrt, openwrt, etc.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 31 August 2010, 18:06:06: She should chuck the iBook and get a Gateway2000. Seriously. A 14-year-old computer still beats those pieces of trash.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 31 August 2010, 23:04:10: A piece of trash can't beat another piece of trash.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: EverythingIBM on Wed, 01 September 2010, 06:30:15: One problem with the iBooks (that my teacher wanted me to do) was the hard drive. If the hard drive in your mom's iBook breaks, I wish you luck replacing it. iMav brought the unfortunate information upon me that unlike the MacBooks, they're just really difficult.

So in terms of the future, I'd also consider having a backup plan for the iBook (the longevity of a router is the last thing I'd concern myself, they last forever). It's always good to have a desktop around the house I think: because, if you're computerless, it can be horrible.

For a wireless router I use D-Link. Although I really like these linksys ones:
(http://www.techpin.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/november-giveaway-win-a-linksys-cisco-wireless-g-broadband-router.jpg)
I think cisco makes them or something... but regardless, they're really cool. Probably better than a netgear one I'd say.

PS:

Quote from: microsoft windows;218670
She should chuck the iBook and get a Gateway2000. Seriously. A 14-year-old computer still beats those pieces of trash.
Quote from: D-EJ915;218732
A piece of trash can't beat another piece of trash.

^I think those two have a point regarding old iBooks, if your mom is mixing and matching old technology with the new, it becomes a hassle. I hate to say this, but, the iBook will have to go at some point... you could always replace it with another apple computer, but I'd suggest something that's easy to open up and fix by yourself.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Stone on Wed, 01 September 2010, 08:13:20: Changing Powerbook hard disks is 'exciting'. I think it was 23 screws in 18 sizes?
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 01 September 2010, 08:39:07: Sounds like the battery in the current-gen Macbook Pros.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Wed, 01 September 2010, 13:44:11: FYI, here is a reasonable deal (if you can take advantage of the free shipping) on the router I'm using now for my cable modem Internet gateway, running Tomato firmware (http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato) of course. It's a single band N router. While I used to think having the 5GHz band was critical, practical experience convinced me otherwise and I'm happy with mine.

Asus RT-N16 Wireless N Gigabit Router + two 10ft cat5e cables $82 shipped free or $77 (http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2206722).
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 05 September 2010, 10:29:27: Quote from: ricercar;217791
The only problem a mom-class person might have is the password. Have her use a hex value password instead of an string password. This is because a string won't evaluate the same way by MacOS X and Windows wireless software.

For example, MacOS X wireless software encodes the password string "Yotjar" as 57:FC:B3:56:5E hex, while a linksys router encodes the string "Yotjar" as 34:6D:2E:23:7A hex (a little inaccuracy saves a lot of explanation).

If your mom uses 57:FC:B3:56:5E directly, then the whole password encoding issue is avoided.
This a woman who uses her address and such for passwords and STILL can't remember them. If its a matter of figuring out how her password is coded and altering it somehow so she can just enter it as is but it goes in as its supposed to then I suppose I could do that upon setup for her, but no way is she going to be able to type in something that isn't very simple even if she has to type it three times a day or more.
Quote from: Stone;217815
^^ Exactly this (or alternatively use a router that lets you set a WPA-PSK Preshared Key directly - then when you type the same thing in OSX it 'just works').

This would be ideally what we are looking for- so any candidates that fit this bill come to mind?

Quote from: TexasFlood;217871
I've never owned or used a Netgear WGR614, but looking at reviews it seems to be one of those "love it or hate it" products. Seems to work wonderfully for some and basically not at all for others. Perhaps this is related to client device chipsets, don't know. I like to read through available user reviews for issues like this to improve my chances of getting a solid product.

Yes - I did read this that there might be some advantage to a router of same manufacturer as chipset on device for reasons of protocol compatibility or something like that. But I have no idea what I'd be attempting to match here, so I just kinda let that one go by as a more finicky detail.

Quote from: EverythingIBM;218772
One problem with the iBooks (that my teacher wanted me to do) was the hard drive. If the hard drive in your mom's iBook breaks, I wish you luck replacing it. iMav brought the unfortunate information upon me that unlike the MacBooks, they're just really difficult.

So in terms of the future, I'd also consider having a backup plan for the iBook (the longevity of a router is the last thing I'd concern myself, they last forever). It's always good to have a desktop around the house I think: because, if you're computerless, it can be horrible.

For a wireless router I use D-Link. Although I really like these linksys ones:
Show Image
(http://www.techpin.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/november-giveaway-win-a-linksys-cisco-wireless-g-broadband-router.jpg)

I think cisco makes them or something... but regardless, they're really cool. Probably better than a netgear one I'd say.

PS:

^I think those two have a point regarding old iBooks, if your mom is mixing and matching old technology with the new, it becomes a hassle. I hate to say this, but, the iBook will have to go at some point... you could always replace it with another apple computer, but I'd suggest something that's easy to open up and fix by yourself.

Yeah, She is okay with this idea too if needs be. Thing is she really doens't need the new tech, as her ibook has been plenty sufficient. If it weren't for here storing every single photograph sent to her in triplicate, she wouldn't even be pushing the space limits on the 60GB drive. If she does upgrade, though, its gotta be another Apple - she just can't do Windows (we've tried). She didn't see the value of spending extra money for DSL or cable modem when she could get NetZero dial up for free until she got the ibook. Now she thinks hi-speed is a necessity. Even so she still gets the low tier afaik.

If cost isn't an issue, what should she get that will work on the ibook now and possibly on the next Mac as well?
It needn't be uber security minded or complicated, just so she can use her internet from anywhere in the house without trailing a cord. There is only likely to be the one machine, and ideally we would just like to keep it simple especially for her password - though I suppose if needs be we can put it on a post it note on her screen or something... As long as she isn't opening the contents of her hard drive to hijackers we don't really even care if the neighbors occasionally piggyback her internet access...
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 06 September 2010, 05:58:33: Quote from: Voixdelion;220102

If cost isn't an issue, what should she get that will work on the ibook now and possibly on the next Mac as well?
It needn't be uber security minded or complicated, just so she can use her internet from anywhere in the house without trailing a cord. There is only likely to be the one machine, and ideally we would just like to keep it simple especially for her password - though I suppose if needs be we can put it on a post it note on her screen or something... As long as she isn't opening the contents of her hard drive to hijackers we don't really even care if the neighbors occasionally piggyback her internet access...

The iBooks all supported OSX if I'm not mistaken (but only old versions of OSX). MacBooks run OSX, so, that's probably the way to go. Here:
http://www.apple.com/macbook/ (http://www.apple.com/macbook/)

You don't have to even get a high end model for what your mom wants it to do (email, pictures etc). I think the starting price is $1000. Although a larger HDD should be taken in consideration since photos can eat up a lot of space.

If your mom is running OS9 or something, well... that could be a problem (and I'd be perplexed too since it's so close to windows 9x). But I'm sure that's not the case.

You don't want people piggy backing the internet connection, many people can start to use it causing it to go slow, download illegal things, use up all the bandwidth, or even hack into the router. Although OSX should automatically save the password.

With that in mind, you could also get an apple desktop computer as an alternative too. A "Mac Pro" would probably be a better choice, all in one computers are just annoying and hell to work with.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 06 September 2010, 07:58:53: OS X 10.4 was the last version of OS X to support the PowerPC based Macs. They don't sell it any more, but you can find it if you know where to look *coughscoughs*
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Voixdelion on Mon, 06 September 2010, 10:30:04: I think something has gone awry... My concern was actually what wireless ROUTER ought she get that will be minimal hassle to use with the ibook g4 she has now as well as a potential future mac (which is less of a concern than working with the one she has NOW since if they are costing less than twenty bucks, she can get a new one that works with an upgrade at the time of upgrade if warranted.) Are there certain brands that are picky about talking to her ibookg4 airport? (presumably this is how she will connect? Or will she need to have some sort of usb dongle or something? I think shes running 10.4 something, but she won't be able to go beyond where she's at with the OS on that machine iirc)

She just wants to be able to use the laptop (which is her only machine) to read her email in bed or at the dining room table without a bunch of cord trailing around to trip over. I could then introduce her to the wonders of using her Sony HD widescreen TV as a display for the nifty videos her friends send instead of the 14 inch monitor screen if I could untether her from the 4 feet of ethernet cable that anchors her in the dining room while online - and being online is about all she does with the thing. While I have considered just wiring up every room in the house for her I think cable free would be easier for everyone if i can stick one box on the end of her modem instead of running wires all under the house and having her plug in at whichever room
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 06 September 2010, 12:46:21: I'd go for one of those Linksys WRT54G, they're always a reliable choice.

What generation of iBook G4 does she have? Does it support 802.11b or does it do 802.11g?
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Mon, 06 September 2010, 13:15:54: Quote from: ch_123;220439
I'd go for one of those Linksys WRT54G, they're always a reliable choice.

What generation of iBook G4 does she have? Does it support 802.11b or does it do 802.11g?
I have a WRT54G and like it. But that name refers not to a single router but a whole series/family of routers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series). Mine is a WRT54G v2.0. Most recent models have relatively low memory and are difficult or impossible to load 3rd party firmware on. These might not be issues for everyone, just FYI.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 06 September 2010, 13:44:46: Quote from: TexasFlood;220455
I have a WRT54G and like it. But that name refers not to a single router but a whole series/family of routers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series). Mine is a WRT54G v2.0. Most recent models have relatively low memory and are difficult or impossible to load 3rd party firmware on. These might not be issues for everyone, just FYI.

AFAIK, the WRT54GL models are equivalent to the GS models that I have.

Even without third party firmware, they're a good router.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Mon, 06 September 2010, 14:05:09: Quote from: ripster;220457
Grandma is getting advice for everything from a new laptop (EIBM's reading comprehension skilz continue to amaze me), WEP ubercrypting, to 3rd party firmware for extra leet status? I should recommend my dual band Netgear WNDR3700.

Seriously, just get the WRT54G, use the default SW and fuggedaboutit. Tell her Porn is awaiting!

Not bad advice. You could certainly do worse.

If you buy the latest WRT54G or WRT54G2, both routers will have 2MB of flash memory & 8MB of RAM. The model WRT54GL (L meaning they are still Linux based and not on VXWorks) has twice the flash memory and twice the RAM. It much easier to load 3rd party firmware on these, although you don't have to. Even if you don't, the extra memory can improve performance and stability of the router. Looks like non-sale prices for all are about $60.

There is another mwave (http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch_v3.asp?scriteria=AA76258) deal today. If you don't mind the free sign-up with mware and a rebate, you can get a "ASUS WL-500Gp V2 Premium V.2 802.11b/g Multi-Functional Wireless Router with x2 USB Plug-N-Share hard drive function and Print Server Function" for $29.99 after rebate. I personally owned one of these and it worked great for me. I'd still be running it except I decided to upgrade to a N router. This router again doubles memory, with 8MB RAM and 32MB of RAM & also adds two USB ports for printers or hard drives (for network storage). You can get the product manual from the Asus web site download section (http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us), click on the link, select wireless->AP/router->WL-500gPv2 and search.

There are so many routers available today that it can be confusing sorting through all the options. But if 802.11n is not a requirement and 802.11g will do the job, I'd certainly have no problem recommending either the WRT54GL or Asus WL-500GpV2 Premium.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 06 September 2010, 14:12:23: Depending on how old the iBook is, it may have an 802.11b card. Even still, the WRT54G will support those, you will just need to use WEP security instead of the more popular WPA, which 802.11b does not support.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Mon, 06 September 2010, 14:14:22: Quote from: ch_123;220465
AFAIK, the WRT54GL models are equivalent to the GS models that I have.

Even without third party firmware, they're a good router.

Agreed.

I actually just replied in this thread and highlighted the WRT54GL as a good choice. It's really the last holdover of the classic Linksys open source Linux based routers.

As I understand it, the WRT54GL is essentially a relabelled WRT54GS and virtually identical. Earlier GS models have more memory and slightly older CPUs. Later GS models have less memory and VxWorks replaced Linux as the OS as Cisco lobotomized the WRT54G in the name of cost reduction.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Voixdelion on Mon, 06 September 2010, 15:05:43: Quote from: ch_123;220439
I'd go for one of those Linksys WRT54G, they're always a reliable choice.

What generation of iBook G4 does she have? Does it support 802.11b or does it do 802.11g?

I think that was one of the about.com suggestions in the top 3 ....
What would be the identifier to determine this? I'.inking that her airport was asking about WPA rather than weg, but that's totally out of my butt from glancing at it once months ago. I think the 802.11g was the suggested one from the about page

Would using WEG vs WPA make any practical difference as far as what she has to type in? If not I don't think it matters overmuch

Really the details DON'T matter as long as I can plug it in for her, maybe configure something once and then turn her loose with a password she can remember or one that is automatically set from her machine only or something. Firmware is irrelevant as far as she is concerned since she doesn't even know the difference between that and hardware/software. We are talking seriously techie crippled and not interested in tweaking or fiddling - just using without headache. I just was unaware if there were any out of the box issues with certain devices not playing nice with that machine since I don't even research mac anymore
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Mon, 06 September 2010, 15:26:13: Quote from: ripster;220487
Voix, I found my old Linksys WRT54G V4. If you want it for free just PM me your address. Looks like I have the power adapter but no box or CD but that's no biggie.

No tech support included but you could always post questions here.

Very generous of you ripster. I believe this is also essentially the same as a WRT54GL, a favored classic in my view. I don't recall reading of these having any specific problems with Mac hardware. You can try googling "ibook g4 airport wrt54g" and see what you find. I don't have a lot of experience with Macs but I'd still bet it will work just fine.

Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding, think you have a winning solution.

I've never used a CD for one of these routers. You just power it up, connect via wire or wireless, bring up the HTML user interface and change what you need to. To find firmware and documentation for this router go to the Linksys WRT54G support page here (http://homesupport.cisco.com/en-us/wireless/lbc/WRT54G) then click on the "downloads" tab then select hardware version 4.0 from the dropdown menu. Looking there just now I found "Upgrade Instructions", Firmware Version 4.21.1 dated 10/17/2005, Release Notes, Data Sheet, User Guide, and Quick Installation Guide.

Hopefully Ripster remembers the IP address of the router, but you can use the reset button to get it back to the default if needed. And as Ripster said, you can post questions here.

You probably should upgrade the firmware to the most recent to assure you have the latest security fixes but the sky isn't going to fall if you don't. I'm talking about the Linksys official provided firmware here. If it were me, I'd load Tomato (http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato) on it but might not be the right approach for you and/or your mom.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 06 September 2010, 15:47:33: Quote from: Voixdelion;220486
I think that was one of the about.com suggestions in the top 3 ....
What would be the identifier to determine this? I'.inking that her airport was asking about WPA rather than weg, but that's totally out of my butt from glancing at it once months ago. I think the 802.11g was the suggested one from the about page

Click on the Apple logo on the top left of the screen, click "About this Mac". In the dialog box, there should be something equivalent to "More information". In the screen that comes up, there's a list of hardware types on the left, find the section for Wifi (may be under networking) and find out what type it is. IIRC, the older type is just called "Airport" whereas the newer type is called "Airport Extreme" or the like. Depending on what type it is, it may or may not support WPA.

Quote
Would using WEG vs WPA make any practical difference as far as what she has to type in? If not I don't think it matters overmuch

WEP by default requires a 20-something hexadecimal character password, but there's some way of setting up some kind of simple password, but I'm not sure if it works on everything. Basically, if the laptop can support WPA, use WPA. It only uses a simple password, and is much more secure (as in, WEP is very easy to crack - and people do crack routers, whereas WPA is almost impossible to break in to)
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Voixdelion on Mon, 06 September 2010, 20:16:01: What is an "apple airport base station"? is that what I should be looking for? Does this make the entire discussion a moot point?
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 06 September 2010, 20:16:37: An overpriced Apple-branded router that does the exact same thing as every other router on the market.

EDIT: The express model of the base station is actually quite reasonably priced (I was thinking of the Extreme model which is something like $200)

Still, it's not going to be any different to what Ripster is offering you for free =P
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Mon, 06 September 2010, 20:51:07: Quote from: Voixdelion;220595
What is an "apple airport base station"? is that what I should be looking for? Does this make the entire discussion a moot point?

Quote from: ch_123;220596
An overpriced Apple-branded router that does the exact same thing as every other router on the market.

EDIT: The express model of the base station is actually quite reasonably priced (I was thinking of the Extreme model which is something like $200)

Still, it's not going to be any different to what Ripster is offering you for free =P
All of these routers follow the IEEE 802.11 set of standards for wireless computer communication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11). I don't know Apple computers that well but looks like the Power Mac G4 AirPort Card supports 802.11b and the AirPort Extreme 802.11b/g. So in your case sounds you need a router which supports 802.11b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11b) and/or 802.11g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11g), Both of these standards are supported by the WRT54G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G) v4.0 ripster has offered up. I'd advise to take it and run, :wink:.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Voixdelion on Mon, 06 September 2010, 23:11:14: Quote from: TexasFlood;220612
All of these routers follow the IEEE 802.11 set of standards for wireless computer communication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11). I don't know Apple computers that well but looks like the Power Mac G4 AirPort Card supports 802.11b and the AirPort Extreme 802.11b/g. So in your case sounds you need a router which supports 802.11b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11b) and/or 802.11g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11g), Both of these standards are supported by the WRT54G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G) v4.0 ripster has offered up. I'd advise to take it and run, :wink:.

Not up to me, unfortunately. I'd take it if it were for me, but for her she wants to buy new. I don't know why I didn't think to check their proprietary crap first; I should have known there would be some - it's Apple ffs! Besides if it says "Apple" on it, she knows it will be comfortable with her toy, and the airport express is perfectly fine for what she needs without being absurdly expensive at $99 to her door. She would have considered going wireless much sooner if she'd known it could be done for less than $150. She'd really only hesitate if we were talking about 200+ but she'd already thought it was going to cost that much, hence her shock that routers could be had for as little as $15.

She's feeling flush right about now and recently adopted an "I can afford it, so why not?" attitude, and since she was a deathgrip spendthrift for most of her life, I'm really glad she's getting comfortable spending a little. (The woman is really quite insane; the summer price hikes from CA American Water nearly gave her a fit - she showers at the gym as if the next bill is going to bankrupt her because the lawn sprinklers are on 20 minutes a week! Even if I upped it to 30 minutes the next bill would only cost her about a hundred more than usual at the inflated rates and only for the next cycle before they go back to normal in Oct, but you can't even rinse a dish in the sink because she feels the need to use half the water she usually does until the rates come back down. So she's trying to kill the lawn she spent a fortune on putting in screeching at me to cut back the watering times by half. I had a real chore convincing her not to skimp on her long term care insurance too because the premiums went up about 64 bucks when the worst case scenario on the outside over the next 20 years was a total expense of less than the cost of a new car which she could buy in cash today for a couple million in benefits gained in trade. This woman will pinch every penny until it ends up costing her money to do so or wastes money on things she will never need or use because they are "on sale" for a bargain. At least I can see the benefit to spending 4x the cost for Mac stuff since she found a PC utterly unusable. Its worth the premium for the "idiot proofing" in her case.

For some perspective on that, Mom's pulling in 6g's a month now that she's retired just as if she was still working (its either 92 or 97% of her highest yearly wage earned) plus she still gets the benefits 100% covered too- that she gets till she kicks the bucket afaik, plus 2 paid off houses (one being rented for close to 2G/mo, I think) and cash under the table from the local kids she tutors at 45 per hour: 14 kids at least 1-2x per week. AND she's renting out the living room to a guy for like 6 or 7 hundred a month who splits the utilities too. Never mind the investments. She has no expenses for the most part besides food and a weird thing for shoe sales, but she buys everything in bulk from Costo and then periodically dumps cases of V8 and sardines and vienna sausages on me because she thinks I'm starving. I'm convinced she has some psychological disorder, like some kind of reverse anorexia of the finances which distorts her perception of reality.

Anyways - sorry to roust everyone for nothing... I must have been tired from trying to talk to my mom all day to overlook the obvious like that. On the upside, after discussing the upgrade idea mentioned here we did conclude that she would be better served with augmenting BY AT LEAST 4X the 256MB of RAM in her current machine For less than 50 bucksas opposed to spending a couple thousand on a new one or something dumb like an ipad. Maybe in a couple three years, but she doesn't need it now just to get unanchored internet...
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Tue, 07 September 2010, 21:41:16: I recognize some, if not all, of those traits in my mom. People can be funny. Parents seem worse than average. Then when you have your own kids they can be even worse, :wink:, at least for a while.

So if she has her heart set on something new, I personally don't put a lot of stock in about.com although I do check there sometimes. I prefer sites with a large number of user written reviews. I have become very cynical of most editorial reviews, I've seen too many showing an obvious lack of understanding of the products and proper test procedures and/or recommending what I know to be crap.

On sites with user written reviews, there are nearly always some negative reviews, sometimes very negative, but don't let that by itself put you off as there are always some idiots which will explain some % of that. Just need to be sure they are as positive as possible. Some folks will rate a product down because it didn't ship fast as they would like or they clicked on the wrong shipping button, bought a product expecting it to do things it obviously can't, can't/won't read a manual or don't like foreign tech support. Well, bad tech support can be a valid issue I suppose. Anyway, I will go check ratings at cnet, epinions, amazon, newegg, etc. I'm looking for a decent quantity of reviews that are mostly positive. It can also be worth looking over some of the most negative reviews to see if they have some valid criticisms.

Some sites have useful features that can be used to your advantage. Like Newegg where you can very often drill in to the specific group of products, such as wireless routers, then sort by rating. If you do that at Newegg like here (http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=145&name=Wireless-Routers&Pagesize=100&Order=RATING), you will find the WRT54GL right there at the top of the list with a ton of positive ratings, just as it should be. That will easily identify some potential candidates and you can read a random sample of user reviews making sure to include some of the negative ones. As I stated before, I personally think that the WRT54GL would be a safe choice for your mom or mine.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Voixdelion on Wed, 08 September 2010, 03:34:27: No worries - she's gone ahead and ordered the airport express base station from the apple store. Quite pleased with herself, too. At least I don't have to shopping with her... That would just be exhausting. I hate malls, and especially the hoity-toity ones with apple stores in them. And that would mean lunch and probably dinner too and a whole day affair - Whew! I might be able to get away with setting it up in the middle of the night while she sleeps so I don't get trapped. Love her, but too much time with her and my skull starts crushing my brain. I still haven't recovered from my last visit.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: TexasFlood on Wed, 08 September 2010, 05:30:48: Quote from: Voixdelion;220834
No worries - she's gone ahead and ordered the airport express base station from the apple store. Quite pleased with herself, too. At least I don't have to shopping with her... That would just be exhausting. I hate malls, and especially the hoity-toity ones with apple stores in them. And that would mean lunch and probably dinner too and a whole day affair - Whew! I might be able to get away with setting it up in the middle of the night while she sleeps so I don't get trapped. Love her, but too much time with her and my skull starts crushing my brain. I still haven't recovered from my last visit.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet there, :wink:. Buying apple gear is not a choice I would have made but should be a safe choice. She probably paid an apple premium which apparently she is willing to do. And as you didn't have to pay the premiums of shopping and support time so sounds like a win-win.
Title: Wireless router for Moms ibookG4
Post by: Voixdelion on Fri, 10 September 2010, 00:12:40: Quote from: TexasFlood;220839
Sounds like you dodged a bullet there, :wink:. Buying apple gear is not a choice I would have made but should be a safe choice. She probably paid an apple premium which apparently she is willing to do. And as you didn't have to pay the premiums of shopping and support time so sounds like a win-win.

Agreed. She actually called today to say she had it set up already (without my help!!) Only ran into a little snag because the thing required OS 10.5.7 for setup and she only has 10.4.6; but that limitation is not in use, just initial setup, and the problem was solved with a call to apple and the suggestion of having a friend with more recent OS bring over his laptop to get her started. So she's up and running and I didn't even have to read the directions! I do have to say that for those that aren't tech minded, paying the premium for apples stuff might just be worth it if you can afford it. That was really painless for the most part and I had to do was tell her what to get, and determining that actually seemed to be the most difficult part! I have to say I'm surprised and impressed that she managed to get it going without me (actually that she even attempted to do so)- something she wouldn't have been able to do without having gone with the apple product I'm sure, so they get points for that.