geekhack
geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: spacmann on Thu, 19 August 2021, 13:54:07
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First time poster here, hi everyone!
I just switched from a Keychron K2v2 (75%) to Keychron C1 (TKL). I missed the normally sized right-shift, and a correctly positioned Del key.
But the TKL is too wide, with quite a lot of dead space. I love that the 75% is fully covered with keys (though Keychron ruined that with an unprogrammable Light key but I digress).
That got me thinking; what if we add just one column of keys to the 75%, instead of two columns as the TKL does? And I photoshopped this:
(https://i.imgur.com/ghzvMWp.png)
If this keyboard is made with thin side walls, it wouldn't be that much larger than a 75%, but it gets to keep a full size shift, plus a Del where it should be, and enough extra keys to program however one wants. The top right key can be skipped in favor of a dial and still leave enough keys.
I asked on reddit, but it seems that such keyboards do not exist.
Two questions:
1. Is there anyone else who would be interested in such keyboard? Or can anyone point to why it is a bad idea?
2. What vendors can help to realize this design end-to-end?
Thank you for any feedback!
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Xd84 is close, minus semi-separated arrows & full size right shift.
You can easily have a plate cut and handwire if it will be a one of.
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The split Cherry G80-5000 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_G80-5000) and Keebio KB0-5000 (https://keeb.io/collections/kbo-5000-split-staggered-80-keyboard) have a six-key cluster like yours, but with spacing between clusters. Keebio calls theirs a "80%", even though it has an additional column for macro keys on the left.
I've once custom-modded a keyboard to have a six-key cluster like that but without space between clusters and didn't have any problems with that. I chose to put the Del and Ins keys on the same row though so that the Home/End and PgUp/PgDn keys were both in columns as on a TKL. I adjusted to the Del key's position quite quickly.
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2)Usually no, vendors usually don't design for you nor do most of the contact between manus. Because it is your board usually you are responsible for everything but logistics. Also for small runs, usually it will just be a single man running the operation.
There are plenty of designers out there that might be willing to do a commission for a fee and likely some kind of profit
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Thanks for the inputs!
@nevin I did not know the XD84, but it does look like a regular 75% to me, that is, similar to my Keychron K2.
@Findecanor Two very interesting variants that I have not heard of before. The KBO-5000 is especially cool, even though it is split. Interesting to note that the designers of both Keebio and Cherry kept the shift key short even though they had enough space. They gave more value to the space around the arrow keys.
@MIGHTY CHICKEN Thank you, that is exactly what I was afraid of. I am not yet familiar with the entire process, and so was looking for an end-to-end service, which I figured would be expensive but this we could overcome with a group buy. Based on your advice, I'll go learn more about the process, and get a better idea of the set of professionals I need to contact separately.
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you might get more interest if there was a little separation between f-row, nav & arrows. 1/4u? (it's something that is usually commented on in build/review videos. ... wanting a little separation.)
but if you're just after your dream board, build it as you want it.
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@nevin you mean something like this?:
(https://i.imgur.com/KMDWbSq.png)
I like it too! Going up in size vertically is not a problem. I am still hesitating about adding more horizontally, because we'll end up too close to TKL. But I do see the value in doing so, making it a lot easier for the fingers to distinguish the navigation block from the rest. Thank you for this suggestion.
It just leaves the key marked "PrtSc" there as an island, which we can address by giving up the space between F groups and adding another key:
(https://i.imgur.com/UXmhrqL.png)
What do you think?
If we kill the nav separation but keep the F separation, we get this:
(https://i.imgur.com/ILy6pbf.png)
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i think this would get the most response. and if you wanted you could get rid of the prt scr key and make that a badge area with lock lights. yes, it's only a slightly condensed tkl but it doesn't look like the "cheap" ultra compressed boards.
[attach=1]
having even a little space to the right of the enter would be a plus. i know i always feel for the edge of the board (or alpha block) to find the enter.
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an example of a mockup... playing off your username...
[attachimg=1]
... the big (or) little dipper by SpaceMan
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Haha I like it Nevin!
Thanks for your help! I started slowly assembling pieces of knowledge about the process, I think the PCB design itself is manageable via special software, but everything related to real world materials and vendors who can make them is still a mystery to me. Once I have a concrete idea of the process and figure the total cost, I can pitch it here.
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i think the 1st thing you should do is make a cheap mockup and see if you really like the layout or if you'd want to make further changes. do a spaced plate (skeleton) style build (like a lot of keeb.io's boards (https://keeb.io/collections/kbo-5000-split-staggered-80-keyboard/products/kbo-5000-split-staggered-80-keyboard)) of your layout and see what you think.
basically you take your layout form KLE and dump it into one of the plate generators like swill's or AI03's
resources
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/
http://builder.swillkb.com/
https://kbplate.ai03.com/
and to keep it on the cheap & really learn how a matrix works, handwire it. that way you'll really know what going on when you design your pcb.
Some good handwiring articles:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87689.0
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=1067
i can give you a hand with the firmware if it's handwired and based off of a teensy ++2.0, promicro, etc. (have very little experience with stm or nrf wireless controllers).
consult the forum before you go with an stm processor if you go that way, they are many variants of stm processors and they are not all fully supported or easily supported.
if you do make a handwired version i'd suggest the teensy++2.0 (yes it's older, but fully supported and plenty of i/o pins and then some).