geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 12:58:15

Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 12:58:15: How would they compare to normal membrane switches and Cherry MX blues?
They seem to float around fairly cheap and I want a keyboard or two for color scheming :D
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 04 September 2010, 13:09:27: They're mediocre. Stiff, and they bottom out very hard. They come somewhere between a good scissor switch boards and something like a brown Cherry.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 04 September 2010, 13:18:32: Quote from: teh_cactus;219877
How would they compare to normal membrane switches and Cherry MX blues?
They seem to float around fairly cheap and I want a keyboard or two for color scheming :D

It depends on many things:

If you are moving from rubber dome keyboards straight to the Dell AT-101W, they will feel great at the beginning. If you managed to hit the keys dead centre every time they will feel smooth, very smooth. But if you don't, they will like bad switches.

Personally, the Cherry MX Blue beats the black complicated ALPS hands down. But, keep in mind that the Cherry MX Blue is my favourite switch and therefore, I am biased. Cherry MX switches have the advantage of feeling very smooth regardless if you hit them on the corners or not.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 13:24:57: Meh :/

Too bad, are they really that bad? Using Cherry MX blue right now btw, feels righteous mang. So they're inconsistent? Is there an easy way to dampen the black alps? Like with rubber grommets? I'm considering the AT101W and Chicony 5181
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 04 September 2010, 13:41:05: Quote from: teh_cactus;219891
Meh :/

Too bad, are they really that bad? Using Cherry MX blue right now btw, feels righteous mang. So they're inconsistent? Is there an easy way to dampen the black alps? Like with rubber grommets? I'm considering the AT101W and Chicony 5181

I would not say that they are very very bad. Some people do like them, although not many of them. There are also those who don't touch type and therefore will be hitting the keys in the centre all the time.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 13:53:09: Hmm, I don't like the layout of the 5181 though, the entire large Enter key and slash next to the backspace.

I think I might just get the AT101W
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 04 September 2010, 14:45:42: There's always the option of removing the tactile leaf. I did that to mine. At first, it was very nice, but after a while, it was as if the keyboard has lost its soul. It was not the same and did not feel right.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 15:10:05: Man, I really can't decide.

Are black alps tactile and clicky or linear?

Oh and how do you set up a PS/2 keyboard for a laptop with a PS/2 USB adapter?
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 04 September 2010, 15:55:41: Quote from: teh_cactus;219921
Man, I really can't decide.

Are black alps tactile and clicky or linear?

Oh and how do you set up a PS/2 keyboard for a laptop with a PS/2 USB adapter?

They are tactile but not clicky. I think the best way for you to tell is to get one and try it. They are not that expensive. For a while, you could get one for $10 on eBay, but I don't know if there are any for that price anymore. I got mine from Alan computech (or something like that) for $10 NIB. The keys felt much smoother when I had the legs raised. But since I used a keyboard tray this was not the most comfortable thing to do.

I used an adapter on the rare occasion that I used it on my MacBook. I tend to get USB keyboards because the Mac does not really like adapters a lot. I used it more at work where my PC had a PS/2 port.

All in all, the best way to know if to get one. What others, including myself, can give you is our personal experience and feeling, but we are not you and you are not us, and therefore it's hard to say whether you will like it or not. Just like dish, you can only tell if you'll like it or not after having tasted it. Looks and what others say about the dish can be deceiving.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 17:53:03: Well, as long as they're somewhat better than the mushy membrane keys I'm sure I won't mind. I think I'll pick up some AT101Ws, thanks.

Question, what are these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-DELL-WHITE-QUIETKEY-CLICK-KEYBOARD-RT7D6JTW-/190439289395?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2c5710f233
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 04 September 2010, 18:27:50: Quote from: teh_cactus;219970
Well, as long as they're somewhat better than the mushy membrane keys I'm sure I won't mind. I think I'll pick up some AT101Ws, thanks.

Question, what are these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-DELL-WHITE-QUIETKEY-CLICK-KEYBOARD-RT7D6JTW-/190439289395?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2c5710f233

Rubber domes.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 04 September 2010, 18:36:48: Quote from: ripster;219883
The double bump of a Blacks ALPS has to be one of the most bizarre engineering achievements ever.
Show Image
(http://web.archive.org/web/20041129051441/http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/gif/dellat101w.gif)

I have an 80's Cherry G80-1800HAU that was a Black MX board that I swapped Blue MX's from an 80's laptop keyboard and I bet you anything their force graph would look like that. I actually love the board, but it does more of a crunch than a clean click when you type. It's like crushing a leetle baby cheeto with every key stroke.

As for the black tatcile non-clicky ALPS, I don't mind them if the board is clean and the switches aren't dirty. I bought a car load of them once and the clean ones were fun to type on other than the echo from the plate in them but my ears hear that in all plate mounted switch boards, it's a curse. IMO the Dell AT101W is one of the more underrated keyboards in that it's so moddable, very well built and has a good layout.

Check out this killer AT101 mod. It now houses PINK ALPS from a board that I sold him.... for $40. 2 weeks later the same model of Pink ALPS Dell board went for nearly $400 IIRC on ebay. :)

(http://kbdholic.net/img/dell-saver/img_3932.jpg)
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 18:52:17: Lol, where'd he even get pink ALPs switches?

Also, what do you mean by moddable? Wouldn't it be about as moddable as any other keyboard?
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 04 September 2010, 19:26:38: Quote from: teh_cactus;219987
Lol, where'd he even get pink ALPs switches?

Also, what do you mean by moddable? Wouldn't it be about as moddable as any other keyboard?

They are plentiful, beefy, the case works well with being cut down and glued due to it's thickness. It can easily take ALPS switches from other boards, or key caps from other boards. The cable is easy to swap. Yes, there are other boards that meet all of this but many don't. And the AT101W is plentiful so if you screw up, you can try again easily.

Pink ALPS were in some early 90's keyboards, maybe late 80's but I'm not sure about that. Some early Apple, Dell, Wang and other boards had them, but they are quite rare and typically expensive. I'm typing this on an early Dell AT101 with Pink ALPS and it's smooth, tactile, non-clicky. Unfortunately I don't have a black ALPS board anymore to compare it with.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 19:30:20: I have a question about mounting. What's the difference between plate and PCB mounting? In structure I mean. They're all still soldered on right?
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 04 September 2010, 20:08:32: Yes. PCB mounted switches typically have a post out the back that goes through the PCB to help secure it, then they are soldered in place. The soldered pins alone are not enough to hold a switch in place.

Plate mounted switches go through a thin metal plate that "hovers" over the PCB. The result is when all switches are in place and soldered, the board is rigid and more heavy. When you type on it, it is more solid.

Each has a different feel. In general I like PCB mounted switches, but there aren't many boards that have them. Plates are ok to me as long as they don't make the board loud, pingy, rattly or resonating. It's personal preference.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: Superfluous Parentheses on Sat, 04 September 2010, 20:08:44: I kinda like the black Alps, but I hear they tend to age badly. Maybe I just had two decent boards.

People claim they're tactile, but if they are, they're certainly not VERY tactile. They are pretty light switches and while not nearly as good as some other mechanical switches, I think they're quite serviceable, and certainly worth up to 10 or 15 euros used (though I got mine for considerably less).
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sat, 04 September 2010, 20:19:16: All AT101Ws are mechanical right? Just double checking as I look through all these
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 04 September 2010, 21:51:27: Yes.

The rubber domes are almost always sold as QuietKeys. I've used one at school and they're quite decent though.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 04 September 2010, 22:40:04: Quote from: Pylon;220029
Yes.

The rubber domes are almost always sold as QuietKeys. I've used one at school and they're quite decent though.

How old are the rubber domes ones you've tried? One question that keeps coming back in my mind--especially when I think about my Topre--is whether age and wear and tear will affect my Topre.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: teh_cactus on Sun, 05 September 2010, 01:55:55: Got a lot of 2 from ebay for 25 roughly.

Hopefully they'll feel ok.

I'm thinking, all white with a polished mirror finish. White blank keys except for WASD cluster in blue, maybe labeled, I'll think of something for the lettering.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 05 September 2010, 06:51:25: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;220037
How old are the rubber domes ones you've tried? One question that keeps coming back in my mind--especially when I think about my Topre--is whether age and wear and tear will affect my Topre.

The one at school was pretty old. QuietKeys themselves are from the late nineties, and the one I tried seemed pretty used judging by its dirtyness.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 05 September 2010, 07:23:15: Quote from: ripster;220049
Rubber domes go squishy in 3 years of constant use. Topres will last longer but if you get 10 years out of them you'd be doing good.

According to Topre, they should last slightly longer than a Model M.

Whether they will keep their feel that long is another question I guess. The spring definitely makes a difference, and will probably take a good bit of the strain off the rubber dome.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sun, 05 September 2010, 09:15:46: Quote from: ch_123;220075
According to Topre, they should last slightly longer than a Model M.

Whether they will keep their feel that long is another question I guess. The spring definitely makes a difference, and will probably take a good bit of the strain off the rubber dome.

Each keyboard has its shares of a good and bad. Rubber domes have less things that can go wrong but don't have a good feeling. Mechanical ones have good feeling but have many things that can go wrong.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: MissileMike on Sun, 05 September 2010, 10:03:53: I have a few at101w boards, and they're good boards overall. The feel nice to type on and are worlds better than domes. I agree with other posters that you do have to hit the keys squarely or you might miss a letter.

But, you can find them used for around 10 bucks, so they're easily worth that.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sun, 05 September 2010, 12:24:54: Quote from: MissileMike;220099

But, you can find them used for around 10 bucks, so they're easily worth that.

I did not complain too much because that was how much I paid for mine :-)
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: shem on Mon, 06 September 2010, 10:22:25: I have a Dell AT102W that has seen about 5 years of heavy use. After buckling spring it is currently my favourite board. People say it's not clicky, but mine makes quite a racket when I type. I'm probably a bit heavy-handed and tend to bottom out the keys, having used mostly BS. After all that use the feel is still good, it feels much lighter than BS.

It came with a Dell Poweredge 6450/700 server in 2001. Incidentally we are just now disposing of the server. If anyone wants a solid (VERY solid) 4U server, they can pick this up for free. Works perfectly. I'm not giving the keyboard though.
Title: Dell AT101Ws and their Alps Black switches?
Post by: thienchicks on Wed, 08 September 2010, 11:30:08: I've just swap ALPS black from my old DELL AT-101W (black, new logo) to ALPS white /w rubber dampener and using full keycaps from SiliconGraphic, it's nice, love it ! BTW, it's too loud at night, but "clicky" feel better than MX blue but not smooth or "rythm typing". Cher'al