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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: mr_a500 on Tue, 14 September 2010, 13:43:00

Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Tue, 14 September 2010, 13:43:00: What's this? Phones in a keyboard forum?! Just hang on a second. Let me explain....

I didn't set out to become a rotary phone phreak. It just happened. All I wanted was a well made phone that wasn't a friggin' piece of Chinese crap. I had 3 of those phones that were constantly cutting out and dropping calls. So I did what any normal person would do... I hopped in a time machine and went back to 1955 to look for a phone. (...Doc got killed and Marty married his mother, but what did I care - I got my phone.)

I discovered that old rotary phones are surprisingly like good keyboards - tactile, well made, last forever. The Western Electric 500 is like the Model M in many ways: (...uh ...except it's a phone, not a keyboard...)

1. Like the Model M, the WE500 has satisfying tactile feel and sound - best among its competitors (...according to me)

2. Like the Model M, earliest models are highest quality and they are all dated so you can strive to get the earliest models

...and that's ...all I can really think of.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12482&stc=1&d=1284489550)

My WE500 is dated 7/53 (that's July 1953 for the numerically challenged). It has the Bakelite handset, Bakelite end caps (early 6 hole receiver) and black Bakelite plungers (don't know what Bakelite is? Basically, it's the plastic that the dinosaurs used.). It has leather feet, rather than the later plastic feet. There are dates on the inside of the phone that all match 7/53. The dial has a satisfying mechanical ratchety sound.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12483&stc=1&d=1284489550)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12484&stc=1&d=1284489550)

Like all things, later phones got cheaper from cost cutting. In the late 50's they stopped using Bakelite and switched to plastic. I've got a 1960 Northern Electric 500, which is plastic - similar, but cheaper (notice how the handset is shinier):

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12485&stc=1&d=1284489550)

I'd like to get an early 1950 WE500 (one of the first ones), but just can't seem to raise the 1.21 Gigawatts required to go back again.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Tue, 14 September 2010, 13:46:31: I also have some Stromberg Carlson phones. They're higher quality than the WE 500 - especially the handsets - but just aren't as satisfying to dial as the WE500. Their rings are nice and loud, but just aren't the same as the WE500 ring - which has been etched into my brain from all those 50's-70's TV shows.

First is the Stromberg 1443. Notice the gigantic handset. I could mash that into somebody's face, kill them, then continue with my phone call. It's unbelievably solid. This is from the early 50's, when they were still using 40's style handsets.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12486&stc=1&d=1284489903)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12487&stc=1&d=1284489903)

Next is the Stromberg 1543, which is nearly identical as above, but with minor changes. Notice how the dial ring is clear plastic instead of metal. The biggest difference is the handset (still big enough to mash into somebody's face and kill them, but you'd probably need a few more hits). The handset is still bigger than the WE500 handset (and nicer looking).

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12488&stc=1&d=1284489903)

(Stromberg stopped making their own phones after the 50's, so these phones are guaranteed to have Bakelite handsets.)
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 14 September 2010, 15:44:34: Best thing about these phones - and the touch tone ones that followed the same design and sorta same build (albeit with moar plastique) - is the fact that you can hold onto them while you talk. No, Im not talking about the handset, I mean the body(receiver?).
Like they used to In the movies/tv. And you gotta make sure the wire doesnt get caught on anything so you do that whippy-flicky thing with that hand while you hold the handset with the other, as you pace around the room.

I wish I was as good as rip with the photos, but think along the lines of John Cusak in High Fidelity...
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Tue, 14 September 2010, 15:59:19: Well, I don't know about the "whippy-flicky thing"... as you so eloquently put it (sounds a bit pornographic to me...), but I like how the base stays put, no matter how much you stretch the cord. They're very heavy. I hate those light-weight cheapo phones that slide off the table and land on the floor when you answer the phone.

Yes, wireless phones don't have this problem (very strange if they did), but I've had endless problems with wireless phone batteries not holding a charge and cutting out in the middle of conversations.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 14 September 2010, 17:39:00: In my kitchen I got my trusty old rotary-dial wall-phone from the 1930's. Works great.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 14 September 2010, 19:25:24: The pre-dial candlestick trumps all.

(http://www.btinternet.com/~ians.telephones/Images/NO4TELE.JPG)
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 14 September 2010, 20:04:45: From back in the days of the party lines. I remember my grandmother telling me about them when I was a kid and how her number was something like 435R. You'd just pick up the receiver and the operator would ask for the number you wished to dial. And if you picked up at the wrong time, you could hear your neighbor's phone conversation.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Tue, 14 September 2010, 20:28:47: Quote from: ricercar;223406
The pre-dial candlestick trumps all.

No, no - the candlestick is no good. It gets people too used to talking to candles. Did you ever try talking into a lit candle? Man, it hurts like hell!

You candlestick people should upgrade. Here - I'll show you how to use a rotary telephone:
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 14 September 2010, 22:00:43: Rotary telephone - NIB. It's not bakelite but still very cool. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rotary-Telephone-Western-Electric-Black-NEW-NIB-/130426225829#ht_500wt_1154). :)
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: audioave10 on Tue, 14 September 2010, 23:23:21: Its strange that all of these old things I've used before. We had a "party line" when I was a kid. Usually about 3 to 5 homes on the same phone line.

fs=1&hl=en_US">fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385">[/youtube]
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Wed, 15 September 2010, 08:18:18: Quote from: didjamatic;223470
Rotary telephone - NIB. It's not bakelite but still very cool. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Rotary-Telephone-Western-Electric-Black-NEW-NIB-/130426225829#ht_500wt_1154). :)

Yes, that's very interesting. Thanks for the link. I saw something like that a few months ago, before I got my phones. I was going to get one, but then they sold out. It seems they got more. I wonder why the guy has 0 feedback though.

Those look like modular 1980's models. It's nice that they're new, but I'm happy with my 1953 one. It looks like new and it only cost me $22. (1960 NE500 was $11, 1443 was $20, 1543 was $31)

Quote from: audioave10;223482
Its strange that all of these old things I've used before. We had a "party line" when I was a kid. Usually about 3 to 5 homes on the same phone line.

I remember one of my friends had a party line. It wasn't as much of a party as I had imagined. It was really annoying, actually. I'd be talking to the guy when some old lady would come on and start talking, then realize that somebody was on the phone. Then she'd sit and listen to our conversation until my friend would say, "we're on the phone here!" Then she'd hang up quickly.

No wonder people in small towns knew everybody else's business.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: Superfluous Parentheses on Wed, 15 September 2010, 17:52:09: Love the look of your phones!

Quote from: mr_a500;223246
don't know what Bakelite is? Basically, it's the plastic that the dinosaurs used.

Actually, bakelite - invented by Belgian Dr. Leo Baekeland (I'm not making it up) - was sort of a weird concoction. As the very earliest chemical "plastic", it was a mixture of chemical resins and wood pulp.

I love the stuff, it's got a very strange feel to it; very solid, slightly cool to the touch and you can get it with a subtle marbling. A bit like ivory.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: Manyak on Wed, 15 September 2010, 18:01:32: THANK YOU

I've been dying to get my hands on one of these phones for a month now, but couldn't remember what the hell the company was. I HATE not being able to just put the handset on my shoulder and talk without holding it :)
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Thu, 16 September 2010, 11:17:11: If the WE500 is like the Model M, then the WE302 (earlier version from the 40's) is like the Model F. It's sturdier, better made, but with slight disadvantages. (the numbers are inside the dial holes, making it easier to mis-dial and the transmitter & receiver are slightly less advanced)

Quote from: Superfluous Parentheses;223736

Actually, bakelite - invented by Belgian Dr. Leo Baekeland (I'm not making it up) - was sort of a weird concoction. As the very earliest chemical "plastic", it was a mixture of chemical resins and wood pulp.

Yes, I know the history of Bakelite - I was just summarizing. :wink:

The Bakelite handset on the 1543 reminds me of 5-pin bowling balls. (weird - I just checked Wikipedia for 5-pin bowling and discovered it's only played in Canada)

Quote from: Manyak;223740
I HATE not being able to just put the handset on my shoulder and talk without holding it :)

I know what you mean - but you certainly can't do that with the older 1443 and WE 302 handsets. They're way too big and heavy. I tried it and almost needed a neck brace afterwards. The WE500 and 1543 are good though.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Sat, 02 October 2010, 06:23:48: Oh man, this is getting to be an obsession. I've forgotten all about keyboards. If you want to kick the keyboard addiction, start collecting rotary phones.

The Model M keyboard has only one date to look for, but on the Western Electric 500 phone, nearly every single part has a date - and getting a phone with all matching early dates is like winning the lottery. (...except you don't get any money)

I just won the lottery - an all matching dates perfect condition Feb. 1953 phone. To show how perfect it is, see how dull my previous best 1953 500 looks (on the right). The one on the left is like a brand new 57-year-old phone. That's like finding a new in box AT Model F in 2041!

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12728&stc=1&d=1286018250)

There are at least 11 places to check for dates. Even the cords have dates! On the metal bands is stamped "53".

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12729&stc=1&d=1286018250)

I better get back to checking eBay for more keyboards... I mean phones... :phone:
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 02 October 2010, 08:23:05: Congratulations! I finally got myself a red Swedish 1970s rotary phone today at a flea market today. I had been looking for one for a few weeks.

I also got myself Keytronic KT2001PS2SV, very dirty but not very much worn.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 02 October 2010, 11:28:53: What if you only got 2 phones on the line?
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Sat, 02 October 2010, 11:59:19: Quote from: kishy;228967
The problem with a rotary phone collection is that they screw with DSL internet (and thus aren't as practical as keyboards). Put one of those on the line and every time it rings you'll lose your connection (assuming you have a respectable number of other phones on the same line...in my case, 4).

I'm no telecom geek but ringer equivalence numbers are not a myth, if you exceed a certain number your line won't work properly for anything (and another problem, 'line leak', is a common issue for old phones, good or otherwise - quoting multiple DSL service technicians who've had to inspect each of my phones for exactly that).

Interesting. I've got cable internet/phone service and 4 rotary phones connected and I don't have any problems. I expected many problems, but nothing so far.

I was very surprised to find that every single automated phone service I've tried - including telephone banking - works without problems. Of course, entering long account numbers takes longer to dial (especially if it has lots of damn "9"s and "0"s), but it works. I don't know what I'll do if it says, "Press # for more options"... but I haven't run into that yet.

Quote from: ripster;228973
I used to like unscrewing the earpiece and pocketing the microphone/speaker on those. Many lulz.
Show Image
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-24936182256914_2122_27442093)

Check the dates on them. If you've got any from 1953, let me know. :eyebrows:
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Sat, 02 October 2010, 12:53:29: Quote from: ripster;228973
I used to like unscrewing the earpiece and pocketing the microphone/speaker on those. Many lulz.

I hope you know, it's people like you that caused them to design phone handsets that don't unscrew. Damn you.

(...and yes, I can quote the same post twice if I want to! Who's going to stop me?)
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Sun, 03 October 2010, 19:25:20: Quote from: Findecanor;228904
Congratulations! I finally got myself a red Swedish 1970s rotary phone today at a flea market today. I had been looking for one for a few weeks.

I'd like to see that Swedish rotary phone. Those crazy Swedish do some pretty weird designs. :becky:

Quote from: ripster;229016
I wanted to join the CIA/Mossad when I was little and blow up terrorists with those headsets and a little plastic explosives.

I'm sure we all wanted to join the CIA and blow up things when we were young... but that's no excuse for stealing rotary phone parts! (...well... OK...maybe it is, a little bit...)
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 04 October 2010, 14:42:24: Quote from: mr_a500;229399
I'd like to see that Swedish rotary phone. Those crazy Swedish do some pretty weird designs. :becky:
Mine is nothing special. Not very unusual or old. Inexpensive, plain and very very common, although the red or black ones are not as common as the white or grey. The grey phones have yellowed a bit by now.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12758&stc=1&d=1286220627)

The Swedish "Cobra" telephone is more of a collector's item, though. (not my pic)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12759&stc=1&d=1286220627)
The big red button in the middle of the dial opens/breaks the line. The prices at flea markets start at 500 SEK (about €53 or $72) for the less desirable colours in well used condition.
There are modern-day replicas available with push buttons instead of a dial, for about a hundred SEK more.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 08 October 2010, 17:08:31: Quote from: Findecanor;229671
Mine is nothing special. Not very unusual or old. Inexpensive, plain and very very common, although the red or black ones are not as common as the white or grey. The grey phones have yellowed a bit by now.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12758&stc=1&d=1286220627)

Hey, that's not red - it's orange! I knew you Swedish people were crazy. What do you call "orange" - yellow?

(reminds me of the Simpsons quote, "No, your other left... Texas left - which is your down.")
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 08 October 2010, 17:12:04: Bah. Camera settings... :-P It looks red in person.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: keyb_gr on Sun, 10 October 2010, 13:00:04: Red can be hard to get right with a digital camera. It's a color space and CCD color filter issue. Using a slightly prehistoric camera model doesn't help.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: lam47 on Sun, 10 October 2010, 17:03:54: How odd. I don't collect them but insisted its what we have.
Only problem is phoning the Dr or any automated system. Then I have to use my HTC Desire which costs.
Still nothing like rotating out a mobile number and getting the last digit wrong.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/laurie47/phone3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/laurie47/phone.jpg)
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 10 October 2010, 20:13:55: I kind of want one of those 1950s phones now...
Heck, why don't I get just "old" everything?
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: audioave10 on Mon, 11 October 2010, 23:12:40: That's a neat looking old phone. It would make quite a weapon too.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: lowpoly on Thu, 14 October 2010, 10:48:45: My grandma had this one:

(http://www.aig-antik.de/Bilder/b_technik/t_W48.jpg)

Some guy put a gprs module into one of those. So he could appear in a bar, put the telephone on the counter and start rotary dialing.
Title: Sit & Rotate - The Model M of Rotary Phones
Post by: mr_a500 on Sun, 17 October 2010, 09:05:17: I've seen a few of those monsters on eBay. I was going to get one, but I don't think I'd be able to control myself when answering the phone.
I'd want to pick up the phone and say, "Ya?....Nein! Nein!" and slam it down again.