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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 May 2022, 07:28:46

Title: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 May 2022, 07:28:46: Thoughts ?

Implications ?

1984 ? The Giver ?
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 03 May 2022, 07:54:07: You know the parable about poking the hornet's nest? Who here is the stick, and who is the nest?

The proof that we are living in Bizzaro World is that it is the people who screeched the loudest about "personal freedom" when it came to masks are mostly the same as the most rabid ones demanding that the government take away abortion rights.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 May 2022, 08:18:24: But does abortion work ?

Is it a balm to some other underlying problem ?
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 03 May 2022, 08:45:13: It is purely a diversionary tactic.

The overwhelming (not underlying) problem is human overpopulation. All women in the world need every means available to avoid bring unwanted children into the world.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 May 2022, 08:58:24: Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 03 May 2022, 08:45:13
It is purely a diversionary tactic.

The overwhelming (not underlying) problem is human overpopulation. All women in the world need every means available to avoid bring unwanted children into the world.

Is it over population, or are we eating the wrong food ?

70% of all farmland produces animal feed. The animal agriculture then only represents 15% of the calories humans eat.

If we all went plant based. We'd only need the 40% of all existing farmland.

Freeing up 60%, THE SIZE OF 1 to 2 AFRICAs, could be REFORESTED to reverse Climate change.

Even if we DO NOT reforest ANY farm land, Plant based would mean we can easily feed 15-20 Billion humans.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 03 May 2022, 09:13:27: Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 May 2022, 08:58:24

Is it over population, or are we eating the wrong food ?

The web of life cannot really be teased apart and siloed. I am old enough to remember a time when pollution was the preeminent topic of debate about what the human population was doing to the planet, but that was just one facet of a multitudinous problem.

I came of age when the number of humans was less than half what it is today (and when I was born it was 1/3).
If we cut all of our environmental problems in half, we would have bought ourselves a great deal of time.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 03 May 2022, 09:22:03: Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 03 May 2022, 09:13:27
I came of age when the number of humans was less than half what it is today (and when I was born it was 1/3).
If we cut all of our environmental problems in half, we would have bought ourselves a great deal of time.

Freeing up 60% of farmland by going plant based is almost exactly square with your Half _ hypothesis.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 05 May 2022, 10:54:38: I haven't been following anything beyond headlines, so my understanding of the current situation isn't the best.

Generally speaking, I think abortion is morally wrong, but I don't want the government to have any say at all in a person's medical decisions. It's a disaster waiting to happen. Imagine needing a surgery or therapy (or medicine!) and finding out it's illegal. This has already been happening with drugs. The crackdown on opioids has been a massive over correction, such that people who actually need the drugs for legitimate medical purposes can't get them (or get enough).

We should try to find and solve the problems that lead to abortions so that they become extraordinarily rare. I foresee unintended consequences of this including women being charged with crimes if they miscarry because "it might have been intentional" and possible criminalization of certain reproductive drugs.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 11:31:15: Given how pro-gun the US seems to be I find it hypocritically hilarious how pro-life they claim to be as well. Then as pro-life as they claim to be they sure are quick to tell one to go **** themselves when they need help.

I see this issue as an invasion of privacy more than anything. Realistically, unless directly related to or involved, an abortion doesn't affect anyone outside of that room.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 05 May 2022, 12:53:41: Quote from: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 11:31:15

I see this issue as an invasion of privacy more than anything.

That is the problem because Alito's rationale, as expounded in the leaked document, revolves around the concept of rejecting the 14th Amendment's privacy protections.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 May 2022, 13:38:43: Quote from: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 11:31:15
Realistically, unless directly related to or involved, an abortion doesn't affect anyone outside of that room.

What if you are a captain of industry, or a church abbot, fewer babies would mean less blue collar laborers and less alms for the Church ?
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:09:59: Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 May 2022, 13:38:43
Quote from: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 11:31:15
Realistically, unless directly related to or involved, an abortion doesn't affect anyone outside of that room.

What if you are a captain of industry, or a church abbot, fewer babies would mean less blue collar laborers and less alms for the Church ?

In this respect we are turning a personal private issue into a public and work issue which I think is an extreme violation.

Not that many people are seeking abortion that it should be the concern it is.

For work argument? Why not allow people the abortion and get back to work? Maybe after getting financially stable they will revisit and actually have the child. This leads to work needing to go back to supporting and being loyal to those company assets, not constantly release people to drive wages into the dirt for profits.

The church. Me personally. **** the church. It's proven to me to be a hypocritical, tyrannical, control obsessed entity charged by greed. I know it has it's positives and is good for some people but I've seen significantly more harm done in the name of God than anything else combined.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:10:50: To be fair, 2/3 of us are sane but it is the other third that screams the loudest.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:12:27: Quote from: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:09:59

For work argument?

TP4 is referring to breeding mindless workers to perform manual labor.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:15:49: Quote from: fohat.digs on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:12:27
Quote from: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:09:59

For work argument?

TP4 is referring to breeding mindless workers to perform manual labor.

What about doping them with marijuana, which statistically guarantees a higher percentage of High school drop_out rate, AND lower rate of seeking college education ? We need mur'Jurbs ?

Democrats are all up on that, there may be no good leaders, it's WE the people, vs THEM..
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 16:56:42: Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:15:49
Quote from: fohat.digs on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:12:27
Quote from: FreeCopy on Thu, 05 May 2022, 14:09:59

For work argument?

TP4 is referring to breeding mindless workers to perform manual labor.

What about doping them with marijuana, which statistically guarantees a higher percentage of High school drop_out rate, AND lower rate of seeking college education ? We need mur'Jurbs ?

Democrats are all up on that, there may be no good leaders, it's WE the people, vs THEM..

The weed argument to me is moot. It's always been available. It's just a bit easier to get at.

As far as mindless workers even now we are all stocked up on that type with the state of our public education system.

I don't believe this has anything to do with labor or population. Given that 6/9 SCOTUS Judges are Christian with strong feelings about this, I feel it is a religious/moral debate that should be way further down the list of things to worry about.

I'm pro gun but with the amount of wanton ignorance surrounding shootings maybe gun control should be step one if we're worried about worker pools and more people to donate to the churches.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: Faceman76 on Thu, 05 May 2022, 20:23:49: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fmMvsAjCkog

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 05 May 2022, 21:08:20: Threads like this one make me glad no one in this hobby is going to reproduce.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 May 2022, 21:14:40: Quote from: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 05 May 2022, 21:08:20
Threads like this one make me glad no one in this hobby is going to reproduce.
#ClubRonery

(https://i.imgur.com/zkdP3qz.gif)
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: Rezkian on Sat, 07 May 2022, 15:41:47: Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 05 May 2022, 21:14:40
Quote from: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 05 May 2022, 21:08:20
Threads like this one make me glad no one in this hobby is going to reproduce.
#ClubRonery

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/zkdP3qz.gif)

Who can afford a child with all these keyboard prices anyway?
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 09 May 2022, 02:30:34: It's stupid that anyone even feels the need to step in and tell individuals whether or not they are fit for children. We came so far, but are still living in the stone-age in so many ways.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 09 May 2022, 07:40:51: well.... it's like someone telling us hey, you're eating too much or walk more, drive less.

The politics uses it as a distraction or a grift, but the real argument is , DOES Abortion improve our productivity frontier. This is difficult to answer, because our economic system excludes so many metrics under externalities (not measured).

For example, let's say we have a major labor crunch, the crushing weight of maintaining working infrastructure. The system does not need more engineers or politicians, it NEEDS Hard_Lifting physical laborers. The system can not WAIT for people to decide. It has to respond actively to "CREATE" this set of humans.

SOME<Most> of the methods to "ensure" this labor force creation is a "high unpleasant" topic of discussion. So we make the cut off at abortion, but what's it really FOR, what are its real impacts, PRODUCTIVITY FRONTIER (As measured by the current broken economic models).

That's what's happening behind the scenes, is this broken model, with alot of uncertainty. The politics is just a superficial cover.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: 1391401 on Mon, 09 May 2022, 08:17:03: honestly tp that is a pretty dystopian capitalist view on human life
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 09 May 2022, 08:34:35: Quote from: 1391401 on Mon, 09 May 2022, 08:17:03
honestly tp that is a pretty dystopian capitalist view on human life

This is not dystopian, it's only TOP DOWN. Society is a magnified leviathan of the single human_self.

We are our own dictatorship between mind and body.

It's important to recognize that the MIND is NOT OMNISCIENT, at either the self or society level. That is why we have civil strife and conflict, it's this adversarial computational network that ultimately <crunches> out the right answer (or) slightly better answer.

By all means pick a side and FIGHT for it, but be cognizant of WHY we bother doing ANYTHING AT ALL.

PRODUCTIVITY FRONTIER <Of all mankind>.

Our existing model is VERY limited. We have to give far more weight to externalities such as the environment and OTHER lifeforms which constitute the Earth ECOSYSTEM.

Remove all the fish in the ocean, and kill all the insect with pesticides, cut down every tree to sustain animal agriculture, the ECO SYSTEM will produce MASS FAMINE.

Animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation and green house emissions

https://climatehealers.org/the-science/animal-agriculture-position-paper/
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 09 May 2022, 08:43:39: Quote from: 1391401 on Mon, 09 May 2022, 08:17:03

honestly tp that is a pretty dystopian capitalist view on human life

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 09 May 2022, 07:40:51

politics uses it as a distraction for .... grift
politics is just a superficial cover.

While I disagree with TP4's view on the breeding of a labor pool (mainly because humans enjoy having sex too much to stop breeding anyway), I agree that the US is now living out a dystopian capitalist disaster.

Almost all of the nations in the world who followed our example of the secular social democracy in the aftermath of WW2 have been quite successful, while we in the US took our eyes off the ball and allowed the Radical Right to hijack the country in the late-1970s. And we have been in a downward spiral ever since. Electing the occasional Democratic president, without also electing a filibuster-proof Senate, is not enough to significantly change course.

"Politics" in the US, until 4 decades ago, was generally understood to be a mechanism to : "form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty"

Until and unless the people themselves wrest political power back from the Plutocracy we will continue to suffer its exploitation.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: 1391401 on Mon, 09 May 2022, 09:18:30: ^ yes.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 20 May 2022, 21:18:39: My god, you guys saw that lady witness get up there and say washington dc lights are powered by incinerators burning fetuses ?

Like seriously, how can people know so little about how electricity is generated ??
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 20 May 2022, 22:25:17: Quote from: tp4tissue on Fri, 20 May 2022, 21:18:39

you guys saw that lady witness get up there and say washington dc lights are powered by incinerators burning fetuses ?

Didn't I put that in my bottom line this morning?
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 22 May 2022, 14:59:52: Convince me targeting abortion and birth control in lower income states is not a targeted conspiracy by the Republican Elite to force people who cannot afford children to have them, thus keeping the ones they want to stay poor, forcibly in the lower financial bracket for at least the next 20 years. More crime once these uncared for, unwanted kids grow up. More funds for prisons and other red state funded schemes. This is targeted class warfare at its most obvious.
Title: Re: roe v wade ...
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 22 May 2022, 15:26:26: Quote from: noisyturtle on Sun, 22 May 2022, 14:59:52

a targeted conspiracy by the Republican Elite to force people who cannot afford children to have them

No, I think that it is more cynical than that, and that in a vacuum they DO NOT want more brown people.

But the greater and most immediate (ie for the next couple of election cycles) goal is simply pandering to the Radical Right voting base who have mostly been energized by the debate and are frantic to be on the wrong side. They have always used "the 3 Gs" - God, Guns, and Gays as their most effective wedge issues.

I think that the Republicans know full well that they are dinosaurs and won't last much longer, but dinosaurs take a long time to die.