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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 24 September 2010, 09:24:25

Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 24 September 2010, 09:24:25
(http://imgur.com/P64ZP.png)

Think it was a mistake?
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 24 September 2010, 09:36:34
Hopefully, it works out for you, and they don't contact you to tell you it's not in-stock or something.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 24 September 2010, 09:49:13
Quote from: itlnstln;226241
Hopefully, it works out for you, and they don't contact you to tell you it's not in-stock or something.

Heh, I doubt it. Then again, always a possibility.

I can't believe nobody else has bought one yet though. It's been up and down several times.

I'm curious if it's a Costar board or not.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 24 September 2010, 09:54:14
You have a Filco to compare it to, correct?
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:00:41
Newegg has it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201040&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Keyboards-_-Rosewill-_-23201040
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:07:14
Quote from: Co-Op;226251
Newegg has it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201040&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Keyboards-_-Rosewill-_-23201040

Chiefvalue is run by Newegg (same RMA address, emails come from Newegg mail servers). Free shipping (vs. $8, both UPS 3 Day Select) and a $3 off coupon. CV customer service also relented and agreed to give me a further courtesy discount since I brought the fact that the coupon wasn't working in August to their attention (and they didn't fix it until the item was delisted)

Quote from: itlnstln;226249
You have a Filco to compare it to, correct?

Yes.

Quote from: ripster;226252
I was just going to check that.  About time!

(http://imgur.com/XxMx0.png)

Far too lazy to check it manually myself :D
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:15:16
Nitpick time: Elitekeyboards says you should get 50 million clicks, while Rosewill says you will get 20 million, http://www.rosewill.com/products/1611/productDetail.htm. Rosewill also says their board is 3.5lbs, while Elitekeyboards says theirs is 2lbs 10oz.)
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:18:05
Got a Lego picture to back that claim?
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:21:25
Quote from: Co-Op;226257
Nitpick time: Elitekeyboards says you should get 50 million clicks, while Rosewill says you will get 20 million, http://www.rosewill.com/products/1611/productDetail.htm. Rosewill also says their board is 3.5lbs, while Elitekeyboards says theirs is 2lbs 10oz.)

It's just listed as weight though. Is that packaged weight or just the keyboard?

As far as the number of actuation, didn't Cherry previously have 20M as the switch lifetime, then they altered it to 50M?

EDIT: Same discrepancy with the Xarmor U9BL (Cherry Blues) (http://hardwareaware.com/review/xarmor-u9bl/).

EDIT 2: Stole this link from the wiki.

Quote from: BucklingSpring;105973
Nope... All Cherry MX's are good for 50M including tactile as well.

I know because I had an argument not long agao with a Deck rep claiming their new tactile board will use 50M Cherry switches. But when I looked at CherryCorp.com, MX taciles were rated 20M.

So I wrote to Cherry support and got a reply back from them confirming that all MX's are 50M.


From:  Keyboard Support
To:  me
Date:  Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:38:47 -0400

Hello,

I apologize but our website has not been updated yet. All MX series
switches are rated at 50 million actuations.

Best regards,

Ed Ferraton
Senior CID Technical Services
Cherry Electrical Products
"

They finally updated their site with the correct information:
Click here to see for yourself (http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm)

Rosewill and iOne are probably working off old spec sheets.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:24:38
Good questions... As for Ripster, that'll do.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: a_fluffy_kitten on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:28:57
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;226261
As far as the number of actuation, didn't Cherry previously have 20M as the switch lifetime, then they altered it to 50M?

Cherry was going to rate their switches even higher, but the guy pressing the test switch lost count at 51,142,934 when he overheard someone giving out their phone number.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:29:36
The 20 million MTBF stat is not too surprising.  That was the old stat Cherry posted before updating it a year or so ago.  I bet the weight is package weight, but we will see soon.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:32:50
Quote from: itlnstln;226268
The 20 million MTBF stat is not too surprising.  That was the old stat Cherry posted before updating it a year or so ago.  I bet the weight is package weight, but we will see soon.


Yeah, it figures. Again, they're probably working on another spec sheet.

Also, 9600 posts. Jeez.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:35:39
I've been around awhile.  At least I'm not a blabbermouth like ripster.  He's got over 10% of the forums total posts, and he came almost a year after me.  The only person that may have been that prolific would have been XsPhat had he stuck around.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:37:29
Well, I checked my last FedEx shipment from EK.

A Filco Tactile Touch was weighed in by FedEx at 4.6 lbs/2.1 kg.

So Rosewill's weight spec is almost certainly a package weight.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 24 September 2010, 14:18:31
Well that was fast.

Quote
Dear muchadoaboutnothing:

For your convenience we have provided you with a tracking number and a shipping date 9/24/2010 12:12:22 PM for your order. If additional merchandise was ordered and not mentioned in this e-mail, please be assured you will be sent a similar e-mail notifying you of the updated information.

Thank you for choosing ChiefValue.com. We appreciate your patronage.

1 PACKAGE(S) SHIPPED THUS FAR.

Sales Order Number: 12345678
Customer Number: 1234567
Tracking Number:
1ZX123456789012345 (Shipped from La Puente, CA)
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 24 September 2010, 14:19:37
Awesome.  Glad to see it's finally shipping.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: LarsMarkelson on Sat, 25 September 2010, 21:33:42
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;226254
Chiefvalue is run by Newegg (same RMA address, emails come from Newegg mail servers). Free shipping (vs. $8, both UPS 3 Day Select) and a $3 off coupon. CV customer service also relented and agreed to give me a further courtesy discount since I brought the fact that the coupon wasn't working in August to their attention (and they didn't fix it until the item was delisted)


NICE! So what was the final price? I might want to hop in on this too.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 26 September 2010, 03:58:17
Quote from: Co-Op;226257
Nitpick time: Elitekeyboards says you should get 50 million clicks, while Rosewill says you will get 20 million, http://www.rosewill.com/products/1611/productDetail.htm. Rosewill also says their board is 3.5lbs, while Elitekeyboards says theirs is 2lbs 10oz.)


Blue Cherries only last 20 million presses. For some reason, Cherry changed their marketing material to suggest that they all last as long as Black Cherries. But there seems to be no difference between the older and newer ones. That, and 20 million and thereabouts is the average for most clicky switches.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 26 September 2010, 09:49:11
Quote from: LarsMarkelson;226845
NICE! So what was the final price? I might want to hop in on this too.

$73, but I was told that they were making a one time exception for me... as a courtesy. I helped them get the coupon working again, then when it didn't work after and I was told "oh, when a sale is over, it's over", I was adamant in pointing out that the sale never really happened (coupon didn't work until after the item was deactivated, coupon expired, item reactivated). Eventually, they relented, but they made it quite clear that it was a favor for me (and it won't be a coupon; it'll be an invoice credit).

:sorry:
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 28 September 2010, 00:30:13
It's $108 shipped on Newegg until 10/5 with a free $40 ABS gaming headset. I doubt that'll entice anyone here, but I thought it'd be worth mentioning.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: washuai on Tue, 28 September 2010, 00:31:33
Will you be the next delicacy or a wise cousin it Guinea?
(http://cute-n-tiny.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cute-guinea-pig5.jpg)
Links (http://dungun.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/guinea-pig-roast-783470-e1261452075325.jpg) to lose your lunch  (http://www.davestravelcorner.com/photos/Peru/cordillera-blanca/Cuy-Guinea-Pig-Peru.JPG)or get really hungry delicacy Guineas.  The original picture (http://dungun.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/guinea_pig.jpg) doesn't disturb me, but most of them do (http://dba-oracle.blogspot.com/2008/10/eating-guinea-pigs.html).  I actually like Guinea pigs as pets.

Only the keyboard will tell.  Interesting to find out if they're not just an urban legend.  Sometimes a deal that should have been easy is too much work, though.

Thanks for being a cool Guinea pig:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__d3WOtTqfo8/SlB7lzrQ7CI/AAAAAAAAADk/ANwoRMooeyY/s400/G-Force+GuineaPig.jpg)
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 28 September 2010, 08:17:12
Yo.  I was trying to eat a granola bar, and that pic nearly made me throw up.  I was not prepared.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: MissileMike on Tue, 28 September 2010, 09:18:24
This appears to be identical to the 135$ filco.  If it is, that's going to be a very good price, especially when they have offers like this headset or better yet, a coupon.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Tue, 28 September 2010, 09:32:47
I eagerly await muchadoaboutnothing's review... hopefully!
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 28 September 2010, 10:53:50
Quote from: MissileMike;227587
This appears to be identical to the 135$ filco.  If it is, that's going to be a very good price, especially when they have offers like this headset or better yet, a coupon.


Yeah, I'm hoping a coupon comes out. I was able to get a good deal on it (not the headset) but I'm hoping Rosewill drops the price.

Quote from: Co-Op;227592
I eagerly await muchadoaboutnothing's review... hopefully!


I'm going to review the board of course :roll: If there's any questions you have, let me know.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 28 September 2010, 12:16:57
Quote from: ripster;227640
Does the  Gold USB connector make you type faster?


Well, I don't have it yet, but if my theory is correct, the gold plated USB connector will allow my keyboard to send keypresses to the computer a fraction of a second before I touch the keys.

Again, this is all theoretical.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: MissileMike on Wed, 29 September 2010, 09:10:51
Did it arrive yet?
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 10:43:55
Quote from: MissileMike;228000
Did it arrive yet?


Nope.

(http://imgur.com/fDFXa.png)

Believe me, I'll let you guys know.

Also, the mailroom here is really, really slow. It'll probably be a couple hours after UPS drops it that I will actually get it.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 11:20:00
(http://imgur.com/eXxcR.png)

Now to wait for the mailroom to let me know I can pick it up... I think they like making me wait.

(http://imgur.com/AHFeY.jpg)
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 29 September 2010, 11:31:06
Hey, who you callin' a Guinea Pig?!?!


I know, too late, but I thought it was funny.  Carry on...
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 29 September 2010, 11:43:39
Where'd you get that pic of me and my GF?

Snookie is one of the few people I have seen that looks much in pictures than real life.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 29 September 2010, 11:46:55
Not to say that she doesn't use spray tan (because she does), but she is half Chilean... which makes her use of spray tan that much worse.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 29 September 2010, 11:53:35
Silicone, probably.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 12:02:55
Well, that was unusually fast.

(http://imgur.com/QIYxg.jpg)
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 12:23:33
I'd be willing to bet actual money this is a Costar board. Warranty seal, body weight, rubber foot locations, etc. are all identical.

Also, for your viewing pleasure:

(http://imgur.com/cfDIv.png)

More to come. I hate to give it the thumbs up until I've ruled out any controller issues.

Gonna be out for a couple hours though- don't expect any more posts from me until at least 3PM.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 12:59:04
How many OEMs have the same body as the CST-104 though? They look identical side by side...

I'd take it apart, but it would never be back together (properly, at least).
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:09:49
Quote from: ripster;228061
wow.  What do they put in that chilean food?   Australia lays claim to having the biggest breasted women in the world due to vegemite.

Quote from: itlnstln;228063
silicone, probably.

bwahahahahaha!
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:14:03
Muchadoaboutnothing: Nut up or shut up... Yeah, I grabbed that from Shawn's healthcare post/book, whichever.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:16:36
Not going to be back with the keyboard for another hour or so, but in the meantime, if you like unboxing pics, here's something to hold you over.

Presented in glorious cell phone camera Blur-O-Vision!

(http://imgur.com/aqkjD.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/T7cKC.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/PAmh8.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/BNpdG.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/uxH3Y.jpg)
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:20:23
Nice, that camera is worthy of taking UFO pictures, or even better, video if possible. :alien: :alien:
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:25:46
Quote from: Co-Op;228091
Nice, that camera is worthy of taking UFO pictures, or even better, video if possible. :alien: :alien:

Well, Roswell is just one letter away from Rosewill.

My choice of camera was only fitting. An artistic decision that will be looked on upon as visionary a thousand years from now.

I am sad to report that my theory on the gold plated USB connector allowing the keyboard to be amazingly quicker was disproven. It's not noticeably faster than the Filco.

Obviously this is sarcasm...

I have a better camera laying around. I will attempt to locate it.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:27:32
Oh, I am not much of an artsy guy, but I see it now. :)
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:32:10
Quote from: Co-Op;228089
Muchadoaboutnothing: Nut up or shut up... Yeah, I grabbed that from Shawn's healthcare post/book, whichever.


I would if there was some way of doing it without breaking the warranty seal.

Considering the controller issues that plagued the M1 (which I need to try to dig up, to see if they exist on this board) , I'm not certain that I will be keeping the board. At least not yet. Everything seems right thus far but I just got it.

The weight is the same, the rubber pads/feet are the same, the caps lock lights are the same. The blue LEDs are just as blinding...

I am confident enough where I don't want to take the risk.

Does Costar provide the controller or does the branding company (Diatec, Rosewill,etc.)? If so, couldn't I just compare the USB ID (http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids) to see if it matches on the Filco & on the RK-9000? Costar has ID 0610.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:36:55
Quote from: ripster;228100
uh-oh.  Call in Welly and the key transposition team!

If so, blame Dell. I'm typing on the horrible backlit keyboard in an E6400, not the RK-9000.

I'll be back at the RK-9000 shortly (another 20-30 minutes).
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:48:52
Same cord as Filco.

I liked how they mention they are Cherry Blue switches in the description of it.  Being a high volume budget electronics brand I would have hoped for pricing more like the Addesso blue cherry boards but they're closer to Das pricing.

Are the key caps Lasered or Printed?   Do you know if they're doing multiple switches or just blue cherries?
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: MissileMike on Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:51:13
So far just the blues.  Keep in mind there is a 20% off coupon coming on Oct 11th, according to OCN.  If that's the case, you're getting a filco-quality board for a price that's barely more than an adesso.  And the quality difference between those boards is huge.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 29 September 2010, 14:05:29
Based on pics they are pad printed, definitely not Lasered caps.

EDIT - Website says "Laser printing design for the keycap" but pics look pad printed to me because they are so vivid white.  Maybe the stock photos are not the final product.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 14:12:19
Quote from: didjamatic;228120
Based on pics they are pad printed, definitely not Lasered caps.

EDIT - Website says "Laser printing design for the keycap" but pics look pad printed to me because they are so vivid white.  Maybe the stock photos are not the final product.


I'll take some comparison pics between the Filco and the RK-9000 in a few minutes. I just need to find the camera that doesn't suck...
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 14:32:10
Found the camera, but my SD card is throwing a fit. It'll only work on the phone, the phone doesn't have a formatter, and my camera/PCs won't talk to it at all. Ugh.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 15:42:34
Camera died... ugh.


I tried checking the USB ID, but it registers as Microsoft. The Filco comes up the same. I assume this is because Microsoft has a generic USB HID input driver. While I can't say it's Costar for sure, I'd be willing to bet a minimum of $50 against someone who thinks it isn't. The information label on the back is the same size/shape. The warranty seal, feet, and rubber pads are identical (no discernible difference)

So, the verdict:

I paid $72 - less than half the price of a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO. For the price, I think the keyboard is unbeatable. Even at $80 (which is the expected sale price on October 11th) it's a worthwhile buy, especially if you aren't sure about the purchase.

However, this is a new product - issues may arise. There are a lot of things to say in favor of buying a Filco:
So, in the end, the RK-9000 is a very attractive option at the sale price. At the price I got it, it was an easy choice.

At retail, the differences start to come through. At $100 vs. $146.50 shipped (within the US) for the RK-9000 vs. the Tactile Click Filco, the choice becomes less obvious.

Will this put a dent in Filco sales? Probably - three digits versus two digits is pretty tempting. At the same time not everyone wants MX Blues (although as an MX Brown user I must admit that I'm very fond of them), as well as the factors I mentioned earlier, distinguish the Filco as a more premium product. Whether that premium is worth the cost is a decision you'll need to make.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: Co-Op on Wed, 29 September 2010, 15:46:53
Thank you for posting those details! If this so-called 20% off coupon is valid, I might get one for the hell of it. =]
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 17:02:06
Quick sound comparison of the two if anyone is curious. If you've heard MX Browns and MX Blues before it's probably nothing new.

Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 17:17:46
Quote from: ripster;228182
So you're saying the Rosewill is louder than the Filco?  Wonder why.

Well, obviously a clicky switch should be louder than a nonclicky one. However, a lot of people have asked me about the difference and, to be honest, the click is awesome, but the sound difference isn't that big.

Some people online make it sound like the MX Blues sound like an automatic weapon when it's really only a few decibels more than the browns.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 29 September 2010, 17:36:53
Look what I got after a 3 month delay from Rosewill's customer service.

(http://imgur.com/5E8CC.png)

That's right; 5 days after the keyboard went in stock and after I had started using it.

Better late than never, I suppose! Makes me worry about the timeliness of their customer service though.
Title: Guinea pig time
Post by: WhiteRice on Wed, 29 September 2010, 17:58:54
Needs more tenkeyless