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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: keyboardlover on Sat, 25 September 2010, 08:49:15
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If there were laptops made with a combination of low profile keys and true mechanical switches (cherry, topre, etc.) would you buy it?
I definitely would. After typing on Topre, I can't stand my keyboard scissor switches anymore.
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I'm a big fan of the ultra portable 13.3" laptops. The addition of the plate and the switches would probably add too much weight.
I guess having them on the laptop would be better than the alternative, carrying around an extra keyboard.
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Reminds me of this image from Toshiba website.. check out the piece on left hand side ! On the right is probably the future of laptops.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12624&stc=1&d=1285423035)
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As far as I know, most low travel mechanical switches just feel like stiff scissor switches. Fitting in normal travel switches is obviously going to make the thing too bulky. Scissors are an acceptable compromise to me. Obviously, the quality varies greatly from one laptop to another.
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We should start doing laptop keyboard comparisons.
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How many people even like laptop style keyboards ? (scissor, chiclet rubber dome, any other switch)
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I'd take my Thinkpad keyboard over certain types of mechanical switch.
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If my Thinkpad had slightly bigger (but still low profile) keys and Topre switches, it'd be a dream for me. Even if it made the laptop a little bigger, it'd be worth it. I'm sure they could design it to have a shorter travel distance as well.
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I'm not sure how the low-profile Topre switches work exactly, but I'm not sure the mechanism used in the full travel ones would scale down well to a rubber dome the size of the one in a scissor switch.
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I'm not sure how the low-profile Topre switches work exactly, but I'm not sure the mechanism used in the full travel ones would scale down well to a rubber dome the size of the one in a scissor switch.
Anything's possible ;)
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Where do you want the actuation point? At the middle, as with present mechanical switches or at the bottom as with rubber domes and scissor-switch keyboards?
Are there not already vintage low-profile linear switches that use leaf springs?
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If my Thinkpad had slightly bigger (but still low profile) keys and Topre switches, it'd be a dream for me. Even if it made the laptop a little bigger, it'd be worth it. I'm sure they could design it to have a shorter travel distance as well.
One way to do it would be to shift the motherboard and everything on it onto top side of laptop, i.e. behind the LCD. This would make the thickness of LCD as large as the base of laptop. This should liberate enough space into the base to mount a MX switch.
I think if the ML keyswitches had the same feel as MX till 2mm valve actuation (Force diagram), that would be perfect !
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Q: Would you buy a laptop with a truly mechanical keyboard?
A: I already have, multiple times.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-sQ6TN93LvU/Sx0_13iQr_I/AAAAAAAAAGA/0UdqIH7a4vc/s800/vintage_loot_89_laptop_blue_cherries.jpg)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-sQ6TN93LvU/Sx1Em_Zi74I/AAAAAAAAAGI/Dd44jY4-joY/s800/vintage_loot_89_laptop_blue_cherries2.jpg)
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That would make the screen excessively top heavy and would pull the screen backwards. You'd need pretty big and strong hinges to mount a combination screen/computer onto a keyboard.
At the end of the day, the laptop would still be very thick, you'd just concentrate the thickness elsewhere.
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A: I already have, multiple times.
I was referring to a modern laptop, but that looks pretty awesome (and exactly the idea I'm talking about).
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I'm sure they could design a switch mechanism that laid flat when the laptop was closed, and popped up when opened to give full travel action. If they cared.
To answer the question: I would see it as a positive selling point, and it would influence my choice.
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i'd buy it BUT -- laptops often are used in libraries and etc, so couldnt be too loud. And also, well, the old ibm laptop keyboards were pretty much perfect, so I'd also settle for just a well-built tactile switch even if it werent mechanical.
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As far as I know, most low travel mechanical switches just feel like stiff scissor switches. Fitting in normal travel switches is obviously going to make the thing too bulky. Scissors are an acceptable compromise to me. Obviously, the quality varies greatly from one laptop to another.
Actually, I find scissors to have good tactile quality if done well (http://www.natec-europe.com/index.php?mod=products&id=7&pid=Z08436&lang=pl). You could even type by the sound if you really wanted. I suppose a metal scissors AND spring build could probably beat most switches to overall coolness.
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I dunno if MLs would work. Not too many options while still being able to hold it thin or light...
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How many people even like laptop style keyboards ? (scissor, chiclet rubber dome, any other switch)
I like laptop keyboards as I learnt to touch type on one (my first computer was a laptop). I like how I can slide my fingers seamlessly between them. My laptop keyboard seems to give quite a lot of tactile feedback, it seems, because I could actually type faster on my laptop (before spending more time on my desktop keyboard and getting more used to the spacing).
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The problem I see with this idea is that it would only appeal to true devotees of mechanical keys (us). We don't have one favorite key type that works for all of us. So the market for any one type would be a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of us. What I could see would be a laptop made for cherry keyswitches, and you custom order it with the type you want.
Or, better, a laptop with no keyboard, and you buy a portable keyboard separately. iPad has paved the way for that--I'm hoping to see more soon.
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Or, better, a laptop with no keyboard, and you buy a portable keyboard separately. iPad has paved the way for that--I'm hoping to see more soon.
That gives me an idea...why not a laptop as thin as the iPad, but with a mechanical keyboard attached (maybe similar to an HHKB layout but a bit more user-friendly and with more keys). With lower-profile keys, it wouldn't take up much more space than a modern day laptop. My preference would be for topre switches, but I'd buy one with cherry browns.
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Getac s400
Water-resistant mechanical membrane keyboard
Optional water-resistant backlit mechanical membrane keyboard
[ATTACH=CONFIG]31455[/ATTACH]
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It is just an idea, laptop manufacturers (HP, Sony, IBM, Toshiba) will never make such laptop.
The market for mechanical keyboard is already small (5-7%) and the market for such laptop will be even smaller - 1% or so.
For modding, perhaps someone like Lanx will do it once per his lifetime, just to show it can be done.
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if i got money to waste yes. Otherwise, consider the short life spam of the laptop, it is not worth the extra cost to get mech board and then go down the drain with the laptop after 3-5 years.
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Nope. The Cherry switch is about as thick as my current notebook.
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That gives me an idea...why not a laptop as thin as the iPad, but with a mechanical keyboard attached (maybe similar to an HHKB layout but a bit more user-friendly and with more keys). With lower-profile keys, it wouldn't take up much more space than a modern day laptop. My preference would be for topre switches, but I'd buy one with cherry browns.
i think your best bet to get something like that is actually an ipad-accessories.
something like that: [ATTACH=CONFIG]31460[/ATTACH]
maybe get a kbc poker in a case with connectors to an ipad?!
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maybe get a kbc poker in a case with connectors to an ipad?!
+1
Exactly right.
The details can change, maybe a HHKB2?, maybe another type of pad.
But the point is a mobile computer with a keyboard of your choice is something you can build yourself if you want to.
Get a little briefcase type thing and you can have this put together in a weekend.
Show us the pics when you are done.
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I love that idea...
And nice necro! I was just thinking about this thread the other day...
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I can't see why you couldn't have a hybrid Topre/scissor type of switch. The whole point of the scissor is to keep it on a straight trajectory.
Most modern laptop keyboards are mounted on a steel plate anyway.
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I think low travel topres would work (like in the he00100). They are stiff tho.
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Most modern laptop keyboards are mounted on a steel plate anyway.
With every laptop keyboard I've ever had it has seemed a whole lot closer to foil than plate, and I'm pretty sure it's always been aluminum. They flex easily when they are out of the chassis.
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With every laptop keyboard I've ever had it has seemed a whole lot closer to foil than plate, and I'm pretty sure it's always been aluminum. They flex easily when they are out of the chassis.
sounds like that would be a big problem if you ever took the keyboard out of the laptop.
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My 2510p keyboard was on a metal plate. It flexed a bit but once screwed in it was very very sturdy.
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My 2510p keyboard was on a metal plate. It flexed a bit but once screwed in it was very very sturdy.
It depends on the laptop: Some manufacturers use the keyboard as part of the top case, and those are quite stiff. Once you remove it, you can access the ram, etc. I don't like that design.
I but it also had 2-4 screw mounts on the bottom, too. It's a HP, right? they like to do that sort of thing.
On the other hand, you can have all the components accessible through the bottom, and have the keyboard rest in a niche on the top case. In the case, the keyboard doesn't contribute to the overall structural integrity of the computer, and it'll be flimsy.
I guess there's a third design: have the keyboard be inseparable from the top case, but this is really bad if you spill on it (and all the components attach to it) 'cause then it's super expensive to repair. The apple unibodies are like this.