geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Ekaros on Sat, 25 September 2010, 17:47:27

Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Ekaros on Sat, 25 September 2010, 17:47:27
So, which is most horrible keyboard you have ever ecountered?

I have hard time to say, but might be Cherry G83-6344... I have used decent membranes(hopefully) so, it's bit hard to say...
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Sat, 25 September 2010, 18:04:34
Hard to say. It would have to be some really dumb tech and lousy making to make me notice it so much and even then, it'd probably be a $2 keyboard, so who'd care. I remember being unable to type without heavy pain on some upposedly brand rubber domes designated as being easy on the hands.

(On the other hand, a keyboard which is really easy on the hands is an M with keycaps removed.)
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 25 September 2010, 18:04:48
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Apple_Pro_Keyboard_%28open_top%29.jpg)

Some of the Macs at school have these. These are terrible. High friction, low tactile feedback, and the stabilizers have a tendency to detach from the keys. Typing fast is very difficult on one of theseThey are quite nice looking though.

I actually like the new aluminum ones. Low throw, yes, but the tactile feedback is good and I can type on it almost as accurately as on my QuietKey.

Other than that, perhaps the Dell L100 (run of the mill black Dell keyboard with next to no bezel). The L100 models are terribly mushy and lack stabilizers on all but right shift and space bar. The extremely similar Sk-8115, on the other hand, gives much better tactile feedback. It's a nice low force board with a fairly light touch and an excellent tactile snap, but it also suffers from the lack of stabilizers.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 25 September 2010, 18:08:01
See this. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=4521)
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: McLaren on Sat, 25 September 2010, 18:52:54
1.  ASR-33 Teletype. 100% Mechanical, 100% of the time. Key travel on these was impressive - 1/4" or more! The key feel was that of pushing a rod down until there was a soft "chunk" sound from inside the machine, which meant that the keystroke had been recognized. The key then got a slight upwards pressure until it got back to its starting position. No NKRO here - you could not press the next key until the first key was back to it's starting position.

The shift key you see in the picture was just for symbols - no upper/lower case capability on these charmers! Note the keys that you don't see much anymore: "Here Is", "Rubout", and my all-time favorite - WRU, which stands for "Who Are You?".

ASR-33 Keyboard (http://www.baudot.net/gil/tty-machines/pics/M33-ASR-Gil-Keyboard-Typing-Unit.jpg)

2. DEC VT-100. Normally these were not particularly bad keyboards, but somehow I was 'blessed' with a personal-for-me-only fresh-out-of-the-box unit that had the keyboard from hell. This keyboard's keys required firm, steady pressure all-the-way-down to register. Unfortunately, you were not able to pick up a new keyboard for $10 if you did not like the one you had. Nope, I was stuck with that awful keyboard until I got a new VT-220 about 2 years later. Lucky me.

3. Apple //c. I had an early production Apple //c. I read elsewhere here that the key switches were Alps, and the keyboards were not bad. Not my unit. The keys required differing levels of pressure to activate, and some of the suckers even made a crunching noise when you pressed 'em down. Other keys just had no key travel at all - just bash 'em and they would register. A later //c+ that I had actually had a wonderful keyboard.

4. IBM 029 Keypunch. Yes, a keypunch - as in 80-column punched cards. A bit of a non-standard keyboard here. No backspace, as it was difficult to erase the little square holes in the card that you mis-punched. No upper/lower case - common on the devices of that era. No sissy top-line numerics, either - just a strange embedded phone-style 10-key number pad accessible using the 'Numeric' key. No Enter or Return keys either - I believe the 'Rel'(ease) key was the equivalent. Just looking at that keyboard is enough to make you think "We're not in Kansas, anymore, Toto!"

Where left shift should be, you have a Numeric key. Where the right shift would be you get an Alphabetic key. Where tab would be you have an 'Error Reset'. Where Enter should be you have 'Left Zero'. There are 'Prog One' and 'Prog Two' keys, but I can't remember what relationship they had to the 'One/Two Program Sel' switch above the keyboard... (First of the group of 4 switches).

Actually, they key feel of the 029 was as good as IBM could make it. People used to sit at those machines for 8 hours a day punching cards - and without the benefit of a backspace key, either! Fatigue meant errors, and errors were not good - error detection in those days was to re-key the cards again, and the keypunch would compare what the card already had punched in it to what the person had just keyed. If the keypunch found a difference the keypunch would beep, indicating that at least one of the two keypunch operators had made an error...

IBM 029 (http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/Keypunch/IBM029.html)

  -- Bill
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Sat, 25 September 2010, 21:53:34
Cherry MY keyboards. I hate the stiff, floaty, muddy feeling.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 25 September 2010, 22:19:32
Blackberry 7100 keyboard

(http://www.pdastreet.com/images/articles/7100keyboardupclose.jpg)
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 26 September 2010, 04:04:12
Quote from: McLaren;226822
4. IBM 029 Keypunch. Yes, a keypunch - as in 80-column punched cards. A bit of a non-standard keyboard here. No backspace, as it was difficult to erase the little square holes in the card that you mis-punched. No upper/lower case - common on the devices of that era. No sissy top-line numerics, either - just a strange embedded phone-style 10-key number pad accessible using the 'Numeric' key. No Enter or Return keys either - I believe the 'Rel'(ease) key was the equivalent. Just looking at that keyboard is enough to make you think "We're not in Kansas, anymore, Toto!"

Where left shift should be, you have a Numeric key. Where the right shift would be you get an Alphabetic key. Where tab would be you have an 'Error Reset'. Where Enter should be you have 'Left Zero'. There are 'Prog One' and 'Prog Two' keys, but I can't remember what relationship they had to the 'One/Two Program Sel' switch above the keyboard... (First of the group of 4 switches).

Actually, they key feel of the 029 was as good as IBM could make it. People used to sit at those machines for 8 hours a day punching cards - and without the benefit of a backspace key, either! Fatigue meant errors, and errors were not good - error detection in those days was to re-key the cards again, and the keypunch would compare what the card already had punched in it to what the person had just keyed. If the keypunch found a difference the keypunch would beep, indicating that at least one of the two keypunch operators had made an error...

IBM 029 (http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/Keypunch/IBM029.html)

  -- Bill


My college has one of those things lying around. If you removed the keyboard cover, you'd see that it was actually a specially converted Selectric typewriter.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Aardwolf on Sun, 26 September 2010, 05:57:38
My most hated keyboard is a Logitech one that has a "F lock" key which forgets its setting every reboot. By default, the F1-F12 keys don't work, you need to enable F lock first everytime you reboot. I hate it.

Also, any keyboard where the insert, home, pgup, etc... keys are placed in an alternative configuration.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 26 September 2010, 06:39:07
Quote from: Pylon;226804
The extremely similar Sk-8115, on the other hand, gives much better tactile feedback. It's a nice low force board with a fairly light touch and an excellent tactile snap, but it also suffers from the lack of stabilizers.

There is also the Dell RT7D50 which also looks just like the other two.
I have been using one as my "daily driver" at work for the past year. I would not classify it as a "low force" rubber dome. I like the tactility, but the high force has started caused my fingers to hurt after long use. It feels like it has stabilizers on the usual keys in the standard manner. There is some friction if you hit the edge of Tab or Caps Lock, but not that much. My old KeyTronic K1000 lacks stabilizers on the same keys but don't have any noticable friction when you press them off-center.

On the other hand. I recently got myself a used Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro from the year 2000 at a flea market, cleaned it up and started using it.
It is one of my worst keyboard experiences yet, only because of the high friction when I press any key slightly off-center. The worst keys were the bottom row: Ctrl, Alt and the WIndows keys are as wide as a wide Backspace key, and some of them are just as high, but they don't have any stabilizers. If you press one of them in a corner, it does not depress! The domes were very light, though. Could I have washed away some necessary lubricant when I had cleaned the keyboard from crud?
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Pylon on Sun, 26 September 2010, 07:21:22
Hmm, there's a number of extremely similar looking Dell boards that feel very different. An SK-8115 feels fairly light and low force compared to the very similar looking L100. Maybe the RT7D50 feels different from the other two.

Also, age may play a factor. My Sk-8115 is only about 6 months old, while some old ones I've seen at the library had a tendency to have their extended keys bind.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Sam on Sun, 26 September 2010, 08:00:50
The most horrible keyboard that I can recall actually using was the membrane keyboard on the Magnavox Odyssey game console.  It's been ages since I used it but I recall it being frequently necessary to press the keys multiple times just to register once.  I believe Atari also had a computer with similar keys, but I never used one of those so can't compare the two.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: WhiteRice on Sun, 26 September 2010, 08:44:36
We used one of these by the DJ station... awful.

(http://www.oreillynet.com/sysadmin/blog/images/rollupkeyboard.jpg)
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Ekaros on Sun, 26 September 2010, 09:03:45
Quote from: WhiteRice;226925
We used one of these by the DJ station... awful.

Show Image
(http://www.oreillynet.com/sysadmin/blog/images/rollupkeyboard.jpg)

Oh, I have ecountered one of those too. I have to admit it was an sailing(boat/yatch), wasn't too good, but didn't have to type on it.

Anything worse is some press-buttons I found on local train for adjusting arm-rest integrated radio controls... Metal with three circles no response, only with things happening...
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: kriminal on Sun, 26 September 2010, 09:27:45
Quote from: WhiteRice;226925
We used one of these by the DJ station... awful.

Show Image
(http://www.oreillynet.com/sysadmin/blog/images/rollupkeyboard.jpg)


i second this
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Ekaros on Sun, 26 September 2010, 11:30:07
I would suggest one in atachment, if anyone ever does full sized keyboard of those he should be put to death...
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: chrs on Sun, 26 September 2010, 13:46:08
There was another thread in which I postedmy nomination (http://http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=140153#post140153): DEC LK-201.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: synack on Sun, 26 September 2010, 20:46:02
Another vote here for the roll-up keyboards...  Absolutely horrible.  It's almost impossible to type a single word correctly;  Even when you try to manually peck with your index finger, trying to be as precise as possible...
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: netwebber on Mon, 27 September 2010, 02:10:29
We had those roll-up rubber keyboards IN AN ENGINEERING LAB. OK, so it was a wet lab (biomedical)... but how did they expect us to write MATLAB code on those things? It took nearly a minute just to log onto the computer.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 27 September 2010, 04:41:53
I wrote an error yesterday: I had been using both DELL SK-8115 and DELL RT7D50 at work. I could not tell much difference between them in feel, and had not noticed that I had been using different keyboards. I have hurt my fingers on both of them.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: nathanscribe on Mon, 04 October 2010, 14:10:24
Quote from: Pylon;226804
Show Image
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Apple_Pro_Keyboard_%28open_top%29.jpg)


Some of the Macs at school have these. These are terrible. High friction, low tactile feedback, and the stabilizers have a tendency to detach from the keys. Typing fast is very difficult on one of theseThey are quite nice looking though.


Agreed.  Like mashing potatoes with your fingers.  Rubbish.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 04 October 2010, 18:08:07
Quote from: Findecanor;226904
I recently got myself a used Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro from the year 2000 at a flea market, cleaned it up and started using it.
It is one of my worst keyboard experiences yet, only because of the high friction when I press any key slightly off-center. The worst keys were the bottom row: Ctrl, Alt and the WIndows keys are as wide as a wide Backspace key, and some of them are just as high, but they don't have any stabilizers. If you press one of them in a corner, it does not depress!


When Microsoft designed the Natural 4000, they took all that friction and put it into the space bar. I've been trying mine again in the last few days. I cannot tell how good the main keys are, because every time you hit space the keyboard mocks you with its refusal to move. I've tried all the variations of bending/omitting the stabilizer bar, and lubricating the moving parts. Nothing works.

Here's why:


As you can see, MS did a fantastic job of making sure the space bar could never work well. If you are lucky only one of the stems will bind, and you can hammer it down. If two or all three bind you better let go and try again.

If you look closely inside you can see signs they may have originally designed for five stems, with two being further back. Who knows if they tested it that way? Maybe it was even worse, with more parts to bind. Maybe it would have worked but they decided to make it cheaper.

I'm giving serious thought to snapping off the lateral stabilizers. They bar might wobble about like crazy but at least it might work.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: vicz on Mon, 04 October 2010, 18:53:52
I tried an OLPC computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1) once. It has a waterproof keyboard similar to the ones above. Each key has to be pushed right in the middle or it doesn't register. No tactile feedback of any kind.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: nathanscribe on Mon, 04 October 2010, 21:35:50
Come to think of it, the Sinclair Spectrum was rubbish to type on too.  Those membranes lasted about five minutes.  The keys would go soft as the machine overheated.  Ah, the 80s, and cheap British crackpot inventor things.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Fwiffo on Mon, 04 October 2010, 22:59:11
(http://www.toadhaven.com/images/Speak%20&%20Spell.JPG)
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Moogle Stiltzkin on Tue, 05 October 2010, 07:20:27
Logitech G15. Most expensive piece of crap i bought.

The only thing of use was the lights before they died. Also lcd i only used for ventrilo.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 05 October 2010, 07:22:38
You're all wrong. I vote microwave membrane keypads.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: lam47 on Tue, 05 October 2010, 07:23:38
These are very very ****.
(http://www.creativecomputing.net/catalog/images/Razer%20Tarantula%20KB.jpg)

Then these.
(http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Apple-Issues-Wireless-Keyboard-Update-2-0-for-Mac-OS-X-2.jpg)
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 05 October 2010, 16:43:32
Quote from: lam47;229895


Then these.
Show Image
(http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Apple-Issues-Wireless-Keyboard-Update-2-0-for-Mac-OS-X-2.jpg)


I'm rather fond of the full size variant of those. At school, it's either that or the IMO far worse white Apple keyboards (of which I posted a pic earlier), and these ones aren't frictiony and the tactile feedback's rather good, so I can type much faster on those. I also like scissors a lot, which may be part of the reason.

Personally though, I don't like the mini variant. Tiny arrow keys are a pain (I demand full sized), and I use the numpad a lot.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: lam47 on Tue, 05 October 2010, 16:56:00
Its the keys I don't like. Any version of it. Its all design over practicality. Apple through and through.
Though each to their own of course.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 06 October 2010, 03:44:08
Quote from: Pylon;226804
Show Image
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Apple_Pro_Keyboard_%28open_top%29.jpg)


Some of the Macs at school have these. These are terrible. High friction, low tactile feedback, and the stabilizers have a tendency to detach from the keys. Typing fast is very difficult on one of theseThey are quite nice looking though.

I think that you may have encountered a well used sample. Bad rubber domes degrade quickly with use. The ones that I have tried are not quite as bad as the ones you described.
However, I did notice that the top of the key caps are quite wide compared to the keys on most keyboards, and that makes it more difficult to feel the keys.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: ksd5 on Fri, 08 October 2010, 16:28:16
Quote from: chrs;227016
There was another thread in which I postedmy nomination (http://http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=140153#post140153): DEC LK-201.


I agree 1000%. I had two of these monstrosities before I chucked them out.
The only thing I can say that was kind of good was that they were heavy. I like heavy keyboards. :smile:
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: kip69 on Fri, 08 October 2010, 18:40:41
Quote from: lam47;229895
These are very very ****.
Show Image
(http://www.creativecomputing.net/catalog/images/Razer%20Tarantula%20KB.jpg)



This was the first and only keyboard I have ever needed to return.  It was such utter crap I would rather type in a $5 BenQ.  Even the rubber roll-ups are better, at least they are water proof and don't pretend to be real.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 08 October 2010, 18:59:04
Quote from: Fwiffo;229816
Show Image
(http://www.toadhaven.com/images/Speak%20&%20Spell.JPG)


I remember some of the buttons would wear over time and the letters wouldn't register. You'd think you typed a word correctly, but hear, "You are wrong. Try again.... Incorrect. The correct spelling is..." and it would be exactly the damn thing you thought you were spelling.

I used to laugh at the thing's pronunciation of "n" and "m". It would say "in" and "im". I'd press it repeatedly just because I thought it was funny. I thought it was a computer error. It was only years later I discovered that Texans actually pronounce those letters that way.
Title: Most horrible keyboard you have ecountered?
Post by: liveify on Fri, 08 October 2010, 19:09:04
I vote for the 8 year old Apple keyboards at my school.. Which I why I plan to bring my HHKB to school