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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 26 September 2010, 10:53:02

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 26 September 2010, 10:53:02

Saw this video and I thought I'd share.

I didn't realize it was such a quick process.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: WhiteRice on Sun, 26 September 2010, 11:57:25

That's pretty cool, but wait...

Where is the laser and where is the white filling coming from?

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Ekaros on Sun, 26 September 2010, 11:59:19

Quote from: WhiteRice;226980

That's pretty cool, but wait...

Where is the laser and where is the white filling coming from?

Yeah, I wondered same. Where does white come from, for just engraving wold need that keys would have white layer or have black layer on top...

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 26 September 2010, 12:02:17

That printing process is awfully precise for something that is apparently happening-off screen.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: WhiteRice on Sun, 26 September 2010, 12:04:26

I was thinking about that too. Any type of laser cutting I've seen takes place ~1mm from the emitter.

Perhaps the distance allows for the shallow cut?

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 26 September 2010, 12:06:43

Not even the lasering... If you want white writing with lasered black keycaps, you have to fill it in with ink. The fact that it magically appears out of nowhere and precisely fills in just the right areas...

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 26 September 2010, 12:19:00

I'm pretty sure that I've heard of lettering on Steelseries 6/7 keycaps wear off. Then again, this looks like a different keyboard line, so maybe it does work differently.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 26 September 2010, 12:41:15

Shame it isn't a rewritable process. Imagine having legends that could change on the fly. The burner might bump the price up a bit tho. :rofl:

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Ekaros on Sun, 26 September 2010, 12:52:08

Quote from: ripster;226999

It's called the SHIFT because you're supposed to shift keyboards around.

Silly if you ask me.  Real geeks get an iPad and program in their own keyboard layout.

Show Image

(http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/SteelSeries-Shift-keyboard-580x361.jpg)

So it's ZBoard or similiar?

Real geeks don't pay over price for rotten bitten fruit logo...

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Arc'xer on Sun, 26 September 2010, 13:37:48

I was actually gonna make a thread on this keyboard a few days ago. But decided not to and found it interesting actually.

Primarily because of the higher-quality rubber domes on them.
Better than having a bunch of cheap ass membrane tops.

Steelseries Shift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5IttI05Rsg)

Only preview I found of it. Surprised they said "clicky", there is no click mechanism. Not sure were they get "clicky" from unless there is some sort of plunger inside of it and it actuates some mechanism.

What surprises me is the price point of 90 dollars. Seems like it's going to compete with their mech line. Sure they are mx black and it's not the nicest switch for typing but for 10 dollars more you can pick up a keyboard that lasts far longer. Even on the diagram of their website they show this switch lasting not even a quarter of the mx black lifetime. Just from a point of view it seems weird they'd fight their own merchandise, unless they are like Gigabyte with Asrock. Ideazon is part of SS but fights between each other.

http://steelseries.com/products/keyboards/steelseries-shift (http://steelseries.com/products/keyboards/steelseries-shift)

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 26 September 2010, 13:46:31

He said (once the software is complete) you can remap every single key. If that is true, and it is programmable in layers like the website says, it could be very useful. Shame it seems to be a software-only reprogramming, but not surprising.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Sun, 26 September 2010, 13:54:37

I'm not sure to what extent the same vendor's rubber domes would compete with his mechanical pieces. Besides, as long as a vendor gets cash he doesn't really care which product it's coming from (as long as there are no products that bring losses) and he certainly doesn't mind if people who already own one of his products will replace it with another. Those might still recover some money by selling the used product (in this case, someone will probably pay a nice price for a mechanical keyboard, knowing their longevity, while still paying less than for a new one). Besides, 7G and 6Gv2 are kind oldish already. The market for them might've been exhausted already.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Arc'xer on Sun, 26 September 2010, 14:13:18

Quote from: ripster;227026

Anyway if you are saying they switch their technical arguments from PS/2 to USB and vice versa all depending on money I'm shocked.  SHOCKED!

My guess is the software they made for that keyboard is locked into USB. I guess they never made a custom software for the PS/2 scan codes.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 26 September 2010, 14:20:53

"... this is a continuation of the Z-board philosophy ..."

So Z-board is a philosophy now, eh?  Ack. Pffft! ;-P

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Sun, 26 September 2010, 14:26:02

Quote from: ripster;227026

The 6GV2 just came out.  I expect it makes more money for them than this keyboard ever will.   The Shift is too dorky looking and will go down in flames like the Ideazon series it's based on.

Well, I suppose the 6Gv2 is more like the market for those who either really couldn't afford the 7G or those who weren't passionate enough with maybe the occasional odd typist that likes it linear or the more conservative-minded gamer that likes it neat and simple to the point of not buying 7G. But there might be something I'm missing.

Quote

Anyway if you are saying they switch their technical arguments from PS/2 to USB and vice versa all depending on money I'm shocked.  SHOCKED!

More likely a different guy doing the talkin' each time, or some hesitation. Whatever option they choose to include in a product they're selling, they gotta say something positive about it.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Arc'xer on Sun, 26 September 2010, 14:31:58

Quote from: ripster;227032

Oh yeah.  I forgot that PS/2 is limited in the macro gaming software that you can write for it.  I gotta put that into the "PS/2 versus USB" wiki sometime.

Shame they never made a PS/3 port. All the positives of PS/2 with the ease of use of USB like macro, hotplug etc.etc.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 26 September 2010, 15:55:26

Quote from: ripster;227032

PS/2 is limited in the macro gaming software that you can write for it.

How exactly?

Do you actually mean "PS/2 is limited in the macro gaming software that HAS BEEN written for it"? Big difference.

AutoHotkey seems to have no problems doing fancy macros with PS/2 keyboards.

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: iqmore on Mon, 27 September 2010, 22:40:44

Many Black Keyboard use this same laser technology, For example, SteelSeries 7G (http://www.iqmore.idv.tw/steelseries-7g-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-review), SteelSeries 6GV2 (http://www.iqmore.idv.tw/steelseries-6gv2-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-review), Cherry G80-3494(Red) (http://www.iqmore.idv.tw/cherry-g80-3494-lycus-2-mechanical-keyboard-review), Filco(Bluetooth) etc.

The keycaps using a special plastic, not pure ABS or PBT.

When Laser notch the keykaps, the plastic is heated. In here, the plastic will produce the white plastic to filling notch in the same time.

It just do one thing to finish it (at the same time) . Not Laser first, then filling later.


And My English is very poor....

Hope everybody can understand.  :biggrin:

Title: Oh the wonderful world of toxic fumes XP
Post by: clickclack on Tue, 28 September 2010, 03:06:40

I figured you guys might like some info to help either further confuse or perhaps interest some of you.

I work with plastics and have for many years and to say it's a funny medium would be an epic understatement.

So here are some fun things to consider (all based on my experience, line of work and research...) when thinking about this thread.

First I should mention that I have tried cutting various keys with a CO2 laser and was unable to induce any kind of discoloration other than a darkening of light keys and at best an "ashing" of dark keys. However it was just a test with someone elses equipement and was not callibrated to do so. Tests were done in normal atmosphere and inert. The other thing to consider is that YAG lasers are typically the ones used for contrast engraving or etching of materials (plastics typically). You can indeed turn black plastic a white-ish color depending on the agitation of the molecules in the plastic and the wavelength used. This is also why YAG as opposed to CO2 lasers are prefered, as YAG has I believe a shorter wavelength lending itself to greater flexiblity in aggitation. You don't necessarily need special plastics to do so, but there are a ridiculous amount of polyblends that may compliment certain techniques.

Ideed as mentioned before (rippy?) lasering materials that have a coating or similar layer is common and some keyboards use this. Especially for backlighting. This is a quick and easy way to get contrast, especially if specialied etching equipment is not available, as this would work with many different methods.

Some plastics lend themselves to being expanded or "blown" this refers to the density of the base plastic. You can extrude or even raise expanded plastics. The technique of lasering a key to bring "UP" ridges and either whitening or darkening plastic fascinates me as I find the calibration needed amazing. The funny thing about plastics is sometimes when you alter the base plastic the end result can have differing reactions to solvents.
Many expanded plastics react more to solvents than their base plastic counterparts. Let's say you spraypaint a piece of regular polycarbonate then you spraypaint  two pieces of polycarbonate pieces that were stuck together by melting and "foaming" the platics together. The new joint is likely more vulnerable to the solvents in the spraycan and could fall apart.

This can explain why you could on some keys wipe away legends that have been lasered.
However I have not found this to occur and instead believe if you can wipe away (solvent) the color of the legened on a lasered key, then it was likely filled or stamped with a pigmented medium suseptable to the affects of solvents.
But more often than you would expect the legends are made of a more durable medium than the base plastic (thats usually a good thing)


Here are some common things that you can do to plastic with a laser.
- burn
- soot or "talc"
- foam
- harden
- fuse
- vaporize
- melt
- deform
- cut

Regarding the height of the laser in the video that some people comented on. Some of the new and more advanced systems have tightly focused and constantly controled beams coupled with different pulsing frequencies which lend themselves the ability to cut quickly at a distance.  This is especially benificial to cuting plastics that happen to fume and/or flame more. Since lasercutters that have a short throw (cutting distance) can often accumulate deposits on the lens or deterioration from reflections. Aside from having very fast multi axis cnc cutting heads some (like the one in the video) will most likely use a tiny controled miror that will deflect/bounce the laser around the bed area while calculating the the different focusing distances for a consistent cut if needed.

...anywho, just thought you guys would be interested

=)
I put my girlfriend to sleep with such talks, lol =P

Title: Video of SteelSeries keycaps getting laser etched
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 28 September 2010, 08:24:54

*Zzzzzzzz*  Wha?  Oh, thanks, Clickclack.









Actually, that was pretty interesting.