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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: ktechs on Sat, 29 April 2023, 10:31:12

Title: [GB] MX Switch Break-In Machine+ (ktechs x keekeen) [GB NOW till end of June]
Post by: ktechs on Sat, 29 April 2023, 10:31:12
[attachimg=4]

Update: 29th May 2023
GB is open till 30th June 2359

Hello GH, this is TR from ktechs.

Would like to introduce you to a break-in machine that we have been working on with keekeen (@keyhub.kb) who previously is known for contributing his open-sourced break-in machine design on github.

We focused on bringing the best quality, durability, speed, and new unique features that are not seen in the market yet (listed below). Please leave us feedback on the IC form if you are interested. Appreciate!

IC Form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd2yWv--9CqEU14l4olGLoTtA-8irgmQ1EF0MIvT-_zB36maQ/viewform)
 Discord  (https://discord.com/invite/edV63Nszby)

About the Switch Break-In Machine +
 - Injection moulded and casted ABS parts with good durability and finishing
 - Custom Silicone Inserts for “organic” off-centred key presses
 - Supports both centred and off-centred key presses up to 100 switches at once
 - Long-pole switches friendly. Supports switches with travel distance from 3 - 4mm
 - Fast operation: 700 - 800 actuations / min. 1 million actuations in 20 - 30 hrs

Specifications
 - Dimensions: 14.9 x 14.9 x 20.5cm
 - Weight: 1.3kg
 - Max number of switches per run: 100 switches
 - Compatibility: MX style switches with travel distance of 3, 3.25, 3.5, 3.75, 4mm
 - Actuation mode: Support Centred / Off-Centred actuation
 - Operating speed: 700 - 800 actuations/min
 - Materials:
     Housings, Pushers, Switch Plates, Cam: Injection Moulded and Casted ABS
     Silicone Insert: Injection Moulded 40A Duro Silicone
 - Colours:
     Housings, Pushers, Switch Plates: Smooth Matte Black Finish
     Silicone insert: Blue

More about the processes
We are using a mixture of Vaccum Casting as well as Injection Molding.

This essentially helps to increase the efficiency of the product as well as the strength aspect with more detailed tooling.

From our testing with this process vs 3dp, we find that the 3d printed model is unable to bear the strength of the motor and will hence crack/malfunction therefore injection molding is the much stronger option on top of its benefits.

This comes with no doubt a higher cost but much better quality to boot.

All fabricated parts will also be sanded and smoothened to remove uneven surfaces. They will then be coated with a layer of primer before a matte black spray paint is applied.

From personal experience, I wrap my machine with bubble wrap during operation to increase the heat exponentially. There is a small amount of paint that comes loose into my hand when i hold the switch plates. This is nothing to worry about and can be easily washed off.

Some pictures for the fabrication process:
[attachimg=5][attachimg=7]
[attachimg=6][attachimg=8]


Media
Please check linked Imgur (https://imgur.com/a/tGmrEiv) post for more detailed images and videos

Group Buy Information
 - Pricing: 250 SGD [est 190USD]
 - Timeline: GB will start on 26th May and run till 30th June 2023 with estimated fulfillment in Q3 2023

VENDORS
SEA/International:  ktechs (https://ktechs.store/products/mx-switch-break-in-machine-ktechsxkeekeen)
NA: Dangkeebs (https://dangkeebs.com/)
MY: Mecha Malaysia (https://mecha.com.my//)
TH: Aiglatson Studios (https://aiglatsonstudio.com/)
France/EU: Delta Key (https://deltakeyco.com/)
AU:SoupKeys (https://www.soupkeys.com/products/gb-mx-switch-break-in-machine-ktechsxkeekeen)

Additional Information/Update Logs:
Update 1: For the switch plates, we will be adding numbering to each side of the product. This helps you to keep track of the positions etc
> Unfortunately, we won't be implementing the numbering feature due to increase of mould price as the addition of numbering will move from 2D to 3D CNC process.
 
Update 2: We have made some small adjustments to improve the actuation of the switches
> Increased +15mm housing height to significantly reduce flex during operation
> Optimised offset of pusher to improve full switch actuation
 
Update 3: Instead of going for hotglue on the top of the motor, we're changing this to heatshrink wraps
> Exposed motor supply pins will be insulated with high temperature resistance heat shrink
 
Update 4: Exploring and aiming to provide at least 3 types of plugs: UK, US, EU to ensure that you can connect your machine
> UK, US, EU, AU


Socials
 ktechs (https://www.instagram.com/k.techs_/)
@keyhub.kb (keekeen) (https://www.instagram.com/keyhub.kb/)


Shipping / Timeline
Shipping ETA: Q3 2023

Additional photos/videos:

Actuations:
https://youtube.com/shorts/Pqd6EseM8wg?feature=share
 (https://youtube.com/shorts/Pqd6EseM8wg?feature=share)
Machine speed

Full Sized Product Image:

[attachimg=4]

Off centered actuations
[attachimg=2]

Centred actuations
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: ktechs on Sat, 29 April 2023, 10:36:18
hehe
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: densus designs on Sat, 29 April 2023, 11:38:19
very nice project, will consider!
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: bizzlesticks on Sat, 29 April 2023, 13:04:53
Looks good, I hope you can keep the cost down
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: ktechs on Sun, 30 April 2023, 10:49:35
Quote from: densus designs on Sat, 29 April 2023, 11:38:19
very nice project, will consider!

Thank you!

Quote from: bizzlesticks on Sat, 29 April 2023, 13:04:53
Looks good, I hope you can keep the cost down

we keep an eye on this too. but due to the manufacturing process, there's a certain base price that we are unable to avoid.
the quality of the material will speak for itself as well haha (not your run of the mill 3dp)


there have also been requests about the sound etc. i will be addressing these soon!
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: Anorexious on Mon, 01 May 2023, 04:43:55
interesting, GLWIC
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: mvkb on Mon, 01 May 2023, 09:50:31
Subscribe.
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: spikedsynapse on Mon, 01 May 2023, 09:52:19
Have you measured the physical resistance and smoothness of a switch before and after breaking them in? Would love to se some charts with the variances mapped out on them
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: leexy on Tue, 02 May 2023, 06:26:20
too expensive. otherwise it looks like a solid product.
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: ggggggg on Tue, 02 May 2023, 09:01:08
Quote from: spikedsynapse on Mon, 01 May 2023, 09:52:19
Have you measured the physical resistance and smoothness of a switch before and after breaking them in? Would love to se some charts with the variances mapped out on them

Theremingoat has been doing just this (albeit in prose iirc) for quite a while. Check out their reviews.
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: zizard on Tue, 02 May 2023, 10:52:54
don't crop out half of every photo
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: Theman2k on Tue, 02 May 2023, 11:53:46
Why are there no normal product photos?
Maybe a video?
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: ktechs on Fri, 05 May 2023, 11:28:01
Quote from: leexy on Tue, 02 May 2023, 06:26:20
too expensive. otherwise it looks like a solid product.

Thanks for this!

Kindly note that we're looking at injection molding and not 3dp.
We've previously explored the option of 3dp but it's too brittle/unable to give us the intended quality that our injection molding/vaccum casting samples are able to provide.

The mold costs and smaller quantities adds up to the price.
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: ktechs on Fri, 05 May 2023, 11:29:00
Quote from: Theman2k on Tue, 02 May 2023, 11:53:46
Why are there no normal product photos?
Maybe a video?

Quote from: zizard on Tue, 02 May 2023, 10:52:54
don't crop out half of every photo

Will be heading over to get some new photos tomorrow :)
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: stomaha on Sat, 06 May 2023, 08:22:43
i shall buy this
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine + (ktechs x keekeen)
Post by: Boyten8 on Sat, 06 May 2023, 20:40:10
Was just looking for a break in machine... will be in the loop for this one!
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine+ (ktechs x keekeen) [Updated with vendors+photo)
Post by: ktechs on Tue, 16 May 2023, 09:56:30
Quote from: Boyten8 on Sat, 06 May 2023, 20:40:10
Was just looking for a break in machine... will be in the loop for this one!

Thank you!

Quote from: stomaha on Sat, 06 May 2023, 08:22:43
i shall buy this

Thank you!

Quote from: ktechs on Fri, 05 May 2023, 11:29:00
Quote from: Theman2k on Tue, 02 May 2023, 11:53:46
Why are there no normal product photos?
Maybe a video?

Added another 1 or 2 photos to show the full size of the product, process and different actuating patterns

Quote from: zizard on Tue, 02 May 2023, 10:52:54
don't crop out half of every photo

Added another 1 or 2 photos to show the full size of the product, process and different actuating patterns


Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine+ (ktechs x keekeen) [Updated with vendors+photo)
Post by: mr_foggy on Wed, 17 May 2023, 18:36:18
yes. needed a proper and durable break in machine
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine+ (ktechs x keekeen) [Updated with vendors+photo)
Post by: jjlee88 on Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:40:40
Nice to see that we are moving beyond 3dp based solutions. Were any long term testing done? The 3dp ones that I have started wearing on the walls less than 500 hours in…
Title: Re: [IC] MX Switch Break-In Machine+ (ktechs x keekeen) [Updated with vendors+photo)
Post by: ktechs on Sun, 28 May 2023, 05:56:51
Quote from: jjlee88 on Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:40:40
Nice to see that we are moving beyond 3dp based solutions. Were any long term testing done? The 3dp ones that I have started wearing on the walls less than 500 hours in…

thanks for your comment! at the moment, my sample has been running on and off.
for the stress testing phase, i wrap the whole unit in about 2 to 3 layers of bubble wrap before i put it in a plastic box. additionally, i leave it under the window where it is exposed to sunlight. at this stage, i leave hte machine on from 11am to 11pm daily for at least a week. we don't recommend this usage pattern at all.
some of the Hot Glue did melt and this is why we are exploring for hot glued parts to be changed to heatshrink.
now at the studio, i leave it on overnight without any bubble wrap so it's on from about 5pm to 9am and still works like a bad boy.

at the moment, some of the spray paint smudges onto your hand but this is easily washed off with just water. that's the only observation that i have!.

hope this gives you more insight into it :)
Title: Re: [GB] MX Switch Break-In Machine+ (ktechs x keekeen) [GB NOW till end of June]
Post by: keekeen on Sat, 22 July 2023, 05:00:24
Hello GH, sorry for not sharing the progress updates here. However, I intend to keep the progress updated here as well from now on. Also, this is my first post on GB, I hope I do this correctly. :p

Most of the updates were shared in ktechs' discord already. Thus, dates were embedded.

11/06/2023: -
New photos taken by a very talented good friend @lensoflucas (https://www.instagram.com/lensoflucas/)

More at https://imgur.com/gallery/0CXixSI (https://imgur.com/gallery/0CXixSI)
(https://i.imgur.com/hCXXvLf.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y3RLT2w.jpeg)

11/06/2023: -
Operation and Assembly Manual (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aLWRWshDUQdHFUPaNW5M94D1CvGpW5Vn/view?usp=drive_link)
(https://i.imgur.com/TeMf6kV.png)

11/06/2023: -
1) For the switch plates, we will be adding numbering to each side of the product. This helps you to keep track of the positions etc

2) We have made some optimization to improve the machine operation (better full actuation of switches with better tolerance, and less flex)
(https://i.imgur.com/mwPDteZ.png)

3) Instead of using hotglue to isolate the electrical contact on the top of the motor, we're changing this to heatshrink wraps
(https://i.imgur.com/HTCJNrG.jpg)

4): Non-performance related, but my logo and ktechss logo will be added on the bottom of the housings
(https://i.imgur.com/NKkJZ4e.png)


09/07/2023: -
The power supply that comes along with the unit has an interchangeable plug point feature that support US, UK, EU, AU, CN sockets.

Moreover, the cable length is 2m long which should comes in handy if you decide to chuck your machine in the closet/cabinet/drawer/box.
(https://i.imgur.com/2hGOQH8.jpg)


12/07/2023: -
Some production photo. The part shown here will further go through surface treatment. End state will be nicer
(https://i.imgur.com/Apa40i0.jpg)


22/07/2023: -
1) Hole was added on the pusher to minimize failure rate from injection molding due to ABS shrinkage. Ultimately, the silicon insert will be covering this hold and I suspect it should have minimal to no impact to total actuation of the switch in the middle. However, I will still get some sample to verify if needed to fill in the gap with some material
(https://i.imgur.com/NjLvBoX.png)

2) Mold machining done. Sample first pass does not fulfil the tolerances requested. The manufacturer will optimize the mold and the surface finish then send me the sample to verify before starting the mass production. Will update an ETA on this.

3) Silicon inserts sample done. Pending the above item 2 to be optimized to ship to me for testing.

4) Other pending verification: (i) power supply (ii) counter cable (iii) packaging boxes. Waiting for all to be made and ship them all once to me for testing ETA mid Aug.