geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: streamline on Tue, 16 May 2023, 16:24:57
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Duality
F13 TKL
Going to keep this short. This board explores the concept of duality in almost every aspect. Two-tone colorways, the art directly, perceptions of the art, between the art, two plate design, and other configuration aspects. Won't bore you here, but it has evoked reactions positive and negative and prompted some great philosophical conversations. Thank you to Baion for all the design inspiration. You are a GOAT (or maybe a baphomet hehe) and your support means the world. Everyone continue to support him. Thank you to Geon for the amazing Tadpole mount.
IC FORM (https://forms.gle/YLfj3fChZX9RAadZ7)
(https://i.imgur.com/teGbMRk.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/k2mkP32.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/38KG2A7.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/ZDV5HHq.jpg)
Details
- Mounting Styles: Tadpole (through PCB), Tadpole Plateless, PCB Top, Plate Top, O-ring (made possible with 2 different plates)
- Case Top Layout: WKL, WK
- Typing Angle: 7 degrees
- Front Height: 17.5mm
- PCB: Custom PCB by Mechlovin. Planning to offer FR4 and CEM-3
- Cable: Pico-EZmate
- Indicators: Capslock and Scroll Lock
- Support: Split Backspace, Split Right Shift, 7u and 10u spacebar
- Colorways: Bloodline, Astral, Pazuzu, Benevolence, Raven, Vision (explanation and examples in the IC form)
- Special Edition: SE but not limited! Will be all black Raven colorway. Black coated Brass weight instead of Copper or SS. It will also have the internal and external weight art swapped.
- Internal Accent: Reads "As above, So below, As within, So without, As the universe, So the soul"
- Tops: You will be able to purchase extra TOPS
- Badges: You will be able to purchase extra BADGES
- Pricing: $600-$700. Yes this is an expensive board. Am I juicing the price? No. I have posted a manufacturing cost breakdown in my discord. Clip of Blacksimon doing a cost breakdown is also below.
- Vendors: After the drama with Mechs & Co. I wanted to greatly simplify this. I am going to use Prestige Keys in order to fulfill to locations outside of the Americas. We are consulting on the best logistics approach in order for the process to be as easy as possible for the consumer when it comes to taxes and timelines. Jakob has been extremely helpful and responsive with Cor and now Duality. Please reach out to me with any questions.
- Manufacturer: Dadesin
- Buy Type: Unlimited
Discord (https://discord.gg/WpBacG8WQZ)
Instagram (https://instagram.com/saevusdesign/)
Blacksimon Reviews IC and Cost Breakdown (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1812950271?t=01h03m58s)
Typing Tests
Astral with Zaku on POM
Bloodline with Cthulhu on POM
Astral with CJ Plateless
Nixies on Alu coming this week. Plan to have a total of 20-30 typing tests over the next few months.
Additional Photos (https://imgur.com/a/vrYhu2o)
Next Steps
- Additional colorways have been ordered. Should be shipping to me next week
- Work through vendors and logistics. I will fulfill all US orders.
- Typing test mounting which still needs to be showcased: Top mount, o-ring, PCB Top mount
- Additional typing tests with more plate materials
- CEM-3 PCB testing
- Once I receive my additional units, I will get them in circulation with content creators
- Finalize pricing and GB details. I am planning on keeping this open for an extended period of time. I am looking at 60-90 days to make sure everyone can see 20-30 typing tests and a good amount of content while the GB is open.
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Liking the mounting options and colors. Excited for this one!
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Liking the mounting options and colors. Excited for this one!
Thank you! I am excited for all the tests coming down the pipeline.
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Will buy two because it's called Duality xD
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Will buy two because it's called Duality xD
(https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Epic-Handshake.jpg)
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Awesome board, Pog!
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Awesome board, Pog!
Thank you for all the support <3
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I love the the amount of mounting styles possible on this keeb, really allows for some fine tuning on a person to person basis. the design is also stellar, this is endgame worthy, and i will be giving you my money.
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Can't wait to run plateless. Great design and awesome colors. GLWIC.
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I love this tkl! Really unique concept with all those different mounting methods. All the sound test are pretty awesome and there is more to come
I am pretty stoked about this one. Really good work and all the best!
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Super excited for this one, sound test are amazing. Great job!
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I love the the amount of mounting styles possible on this keeb, really allows for some fine tuning on a person to person basis. the design is also stellar, this is endgame worthy, and i will be giving you my money.
I really appreciate the kind words. Yes I think with no foam, the board will really accentuate different builds!
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I love this tkl! Really unique concept with all those different mounting methods. All the sound test are pretty awesome and there is more to come
I am pretty stoked about this one. Really good work and all the best!
<3 Aeon
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Super excited for this one, sound test are amazing. Great job!
tyty!
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Great design and such a fantastic TKL. Beautiful engravings and sound tests are awesome!
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One hell of a board
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Great design and such a fantastic TKL. Beautiful engravings and sound tests are awesome!
thank you jackie! Yes you're getting your alu plate :P
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One hell of a board
thank you!
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ISO support via a solder PCB option, please?
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ISO support via a solder PCB option, please?
I hope they do. Solder PCBs mean more layout flexibility when designing. So, it only makes sense.
If not, I hope it's compatible with some honey PCBs
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ISO support via a solder PCB option, please?
I will probably include since I've received quite a bit of interest.
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Finally! Looking forward to it! :cool:
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OMG that cream/copper combo is amazing.... just screams out GMK copper, and I have that set languishing in my cupboard waiting for the right board to come along. I think they've just found a home :)
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picking a color for this board will be... hell.
in 100%
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F13 gang gang
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Looks stunning! What's the length of the front lip and forehead?
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Tuning keebord, looking forward to grab one
Nice work! :thumb:
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picking a color for this board will be... hell.
in 100%
so... many... puns... must... restrain...
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Tuning keebord, looking forward to grab one
Nice work! :thumb:
Thank you!
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Looks stunning! What's the length of the front lip and forehead?
forehead is 7.47mm and front lip is 7.53mm (this is measured from edge of keycap cutout to the beginning of the chamfer)
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a lot of fun design elements in this design. nice work - glwic!
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Very nice details on the insides of the board. Someone please explain to me the appeal if they are going to be hidden with pcb and keycaps! Otherwise great design :)
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Very nice details on the insides of the board. Someone please explain to me the appeal if they are going to be hidden with pcb and keycaps! Otherwise great design :)
You should care about every aspect, not just what you can see ^_^
We are on a custom keyboard board that loves expensive rectangles with essentially no added functionality.
It's art that tries to holistically investigate the concept. <3
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a lot of fun design elements in this design. nice work - glwic!
appreciate it! Your username is dope!
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fire. stoked for this one. glwic.
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Not really what I look for in a board, but still GLWIC
Some odd representations of duality tho ngl. Ouroboros isn't really juxtaposed by the skull. Like I get that it's pitting infinity against death, which is the "opposite" of going on forever but I think that's a very close minded way of looking at death. When something dies new life sprouts from it and sustains itself from it. Along with the Petrine cross on the front not only seems to throw off the general balance of the board but doesn't really seem to have any symbolic value besides being some oft misinterpreted iconography.
The goat is a good choice I guess tho. Not entirely familiar with it besides the whole "Oooh spooky satan goat" **** that pop culture loves but from what little I know it is representative of duality so I guess that's kinda on brand.
If I'm off base let me know, but when you're using interpretation as a selling point for this board, and my interpretation is that your symbols may not be the best suited for the stated theme, that isn't really a good sign.
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Astral is a great color! The only thing I am concerned about is that this is an unlimited group buy, but there seems to be no actual vendor handling the US sales.
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Not really what I look for in a board, but still GLWIC
Some odd representations of duality tho ngl. Ouroboros isn't really juxtaposed by the skull. Like I get that it's pitting infinity against death, which is the "opposite" of going on forever but I think that's a very close minded way of looking at death. When something dies new life sprouts from it and sustains itself from it. Along with the Petrine cross on the front not only seems to throw off the general balance of the board but doesn't really seem to have any symbolic value besides being some oft misinterpreted iconography.
The goat is a good choice I guess tho. Not entirely familiar with it besides the whole "Oooh spooky satan goat" **** that pop culture loves but from what little I know it is representative of duality so I guess that's kinda on brand.
If I'm off base let me know, but when you're using interpretation as a selling point for this board, and my interpretation is that your symbols may not be the best suited for the stated theme, that isn't really a good sign.
Well aside from there being like 5 mounting configs.... let me shed some light on the concept and imagery.
-Two-tone colorways except for the all black (Raven) and all silver (Vision) which are essentially a representation of yin and yang type duality themselves.
-2 plate design: Needing 2 different plates to enable all mounting configurations
-Duality within the individual art
-The upside down cross. People see it and instantly think "evil, devil, satan, bad, etc.", but this was originally the cross of St. Peter. It was later co-opted by non-religious groups such as the Satanic Temple (not to be confused by the crazy Church of Satan) typically as tongue and cheek when trying to combat the institutional churches seeping into legislation.
-The Baphomet on the back. Again people see the baphomet and pentagram and are terrified of it. The baphomet has a lot to do with nature, balance, creation and destruction (to join together and separation), justice and mercy, etc. The pentagram was originally used in ancient Greece as a symbol of wellbeing, good deeds, and charity.
-Even within this, there is the duality or misconception of the uses of this imagery when it comes to things such as the Satanic Temple. They are non-religious and focus on empathy, reason, and advocacy. One of the main things they are proponents of is "The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word."
-The Ouroboros on the inside is specifically about the cycles of life/the universe. Creation and destruction, or life and death.
-The inscription on the internal accent is "As above, So below, As within, So without, As the universe, So the soul"
-There is Duality, specifically for myself, relating to the more serious internal art vs the more playful external art on the weight. It represents the fun, friendly, approachable light-hearted external personality and my more serious and existential internal.
-I am quite antitheistic when it comes to religious institutions and as they relate to mechanisms of control. I am pro spirituality though. If that make sense without writing another essay. So yes, part of it is to poke fun at religious fundamentalism with imagery on a keyboard. But more importantly, it is to evoke SOMETHING. Whether you are or aren't religious, there are very interesting and critical conversations to be had. Which this board has definitely accomplished. We have had some great and nuanced philosophical conversations in the discord already.
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Astral is a great color! The only thing I am concerned about is that this is an unlimited group buy, but there seems to be no actual vendor handling the US sales.
Considering my Cor GB has been bottlenecked by my US vendor for the last 70 days... I would be more concerned if there was a vendor. I can handle this, I am hyper vigilant when it comes to transparency in my discord, and fewer cooks in the kitchen will lead to fewer bottlenecks.
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Astral is a great color! The only thing I am concerned about is that this is an unlimited group buy, but there seems to be no actual vendor handling the US sales.
Also, although unlimited - it is a very expensive board. Can't imagine this going QK level crazy.
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Not really what I look for in a board, but still GLWIC
Some odd representations of duality tho ngl. Ouroboros isn't really juxtaposed by the skull. Like I get that it's pitting infinity against death, which is the "opposite" of going on forever but I think that's a very close minded way of looking at death. When something dies new life sprouts from it and sustains itself from it. Along with the Petrine cross on the front not only seems to throw off the general balance of the board but doesn't really seem to have any symbolic value besides being some oft misinterpreted iconography.
The goat is a good choice I guess tho. Not entirely familiar with it besides the whole "Oooh spooky satan goat" **** that pop culture loves but from what little I know it is representative of duality so I guess that's kinda on brand.
If I'm off base let me know, but when you're using interpretation as a selling point for this board, and my interpretation is that your symbols may not be the best suited for the stated theme, that isn't really a good sign.
Well aside from there being like 5 mounting configs.... let me shed some light on the concept and imagery.
-Two-tone colorways except for the all black (Raven) and all silver (Vision) which are essentially a representation of yin and yang type duality themselves.
-2 plate design: Needing 2 different plates to enable all mounting configurations
-Duality within the individual art
-The upside down cross. People see it and instantly think "evil, devil, satan, bad, etc.", but this was originally the cross of St. Peter. It was later co-opted by non-religious groups such as the Satanic Temple (not to be confused by the crazy Church of Satan) typically as tongue and cheek when trying to combat the institutional churches seeping into legislation.
-The Baphomet on the back. Again people see the baphomet and pentagram and are terrified of it. The baphomet has a lot to do with nature, balance, creation and destruction (to join together and separation), justice and mercy, etc. The pentagram was originally used in ancient Greece as a symbol of wellbeing, good deeds, and charity.
-Even within this, there is the duality or misconception of the uses of this imagery when it comes to things such as the Satanic Temple. They are non-religious and focus on empathy, reason, and advocacy. One of the main things they are proponents of is "The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word."
-The Ouroboros on the inside is specifically about the cycles of life/the universe. Creation and destruction, or life and death.
-The inscription on the internal accent is "As above, So below, As within, So without, As the universe, So the soul"
-There is Duality, specifically for myself, relating to the more serious internal art vs the more playful external art on the weight. It represents the fun, friendly, approachable light-hearted external personality and my more serious and existential internal.
-I am quite antitheistic when it comes to religious institutions and as they relate to mechanisms of control. I am pro spirituality though. If that make sense without writing another essay. So yes, part of it is to poke fun at religious fundamentalism with imagery on a keyboard. But more importantly, it is to evoke SOMETHING. Whether you are or aren't religious, there are very interesting and critical conversations to be had. Which this board has definitely accomplished. We have had some great and nuanced philosophical conversations in the discord already.
I appreciate the clarifications. Always nice to have my eyes opened to stuff like this ^^
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Looks awesome. I need a PC case version.
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Not really what I look for in a board, but still GLWIC
Some odd representations of duality tho ngl. Ouroboros isn't really juxtaposed by the skull. Like I get that it's pitting infinity against death, which is the "opposite" of going on forever but I think that's a very close minded way of looking at death. When something dies new life sprouts from it and sustains itself from it. Along with the Petrine cross on the front not only seems to throw off the general balance of the board but doesn't really seem to have any symbolic value besides being some oft misinterpreted iconography.
The goat is a good choice I guess tho. Not entirely familiar with it besides the whole "Oooh spooky satan goat" **** that pop culture loves but from what little I know it is representative of duality so I guess that's kinda on brand.
If I'm off base let me know, but when you're using interpretation as a selling point for this board, and my interpretation is that your symbols may not be the best suited for the stated theme, that isn't really a good sign.
Well aside from there being like 5 mounting configs.... let me shed some light on the concept and imagery.
-Two-tone colorways except for the all black (Raven) and all silver (Vision) which are essentially a representation of yin and yang type duality themselves.
-2 plate design: Needing 2 different plates to enable all mounting configurations
-Duality within the individual art
-The upside down cross. People see it and instantly think "evil, devil, satan, bad, etc.", but this was originally the cross of St. Peter. It was later co-opted by non-religious groups such as the Satanic Temple (not to be confused by the crazy Church of Satan) typically as tongue and cheek when trying to combat the institutional churches seeping into legislation.
-The Baphomet on the back. Again people see the baphomet and pentagram and are terrified of it. The baphomet has a lot to do with nature, balance, creation and destruction (to join together and separation), justice and mercy, etc. The pentagram was originally used in ancient Greece as a symbol of wellbeing, good deeds, and charity.
-Even within this, there is the duality or misconception of the uses of this imagery when it comes to things such as the Satanic Temple. They are non-religious and focus on empathy, reason, and advocacy. One of the main things they are proponents of is "The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word."
-The Ouroboros on the inside is specifically about the cycles of life/the universe. Creation and destruction, or life and death.
-The inscription on the internal accent is "As above, So below, As within, So without, As the universe, So the soul"
-There is Duality, specifically for myself, relating to the more serious internal art vs the more playful external art on the weight. It represents the fun, friendly, approachable light-hearted external personality and my more serious and existential internal.
-I am quite antitheistic when it comes to religious institutions and as they relate to mechanisms of control. I am pro spirituality though. If that make sense without writing another essay. So yes, part of it is to poke fun at religious fundamentalism with imagery on a keyboard. But more importantly, it is to evoke SOMETHING. Whether you are or aren't religious, there are very interesting and critical conversations to be had. Which this board has definitely accomplished. We have had some great and nuanced philosophical conversations in the discord already.
I appreciate the clarifications. Always nice to have my eyes opened to stuff like this ^^
And I appreciate the questions, insight from a potential customer's perspective, and getting to engage in conversations like this!
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Looks awesome. I need a PC case version.
I am working on a special version which has a full copper bottom, powdercoated SS weight, PC top, and an alternate beige/creme top.
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like...the whole bottom's copper? Yeah I'm ready. can we choose outside skull for that one too?
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like...the whole bottom's copper? Yeah I'm ready. can we choose outside skull for that one too?
Yeah but it would still have the weight since I don't want to lose the contrast or the horns. Looking through exotic powdercoat options for the SS weight.
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I plan to buy this because I like your theme and your price transparency.
Out of curiosity, how many prototypes did it take to get this many combos of plate/mounting style dialed in?
Also, can you add some board weight estimates to the specs?
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I plan to buy this because I like your theme and your price transparency.
Out of curiosity, how many prototypes did it take to get this many combos of plate/mounting style dialed in?
Also, can you add some board weight estimates to the specs?
A little over 2.5kg, since they aren't new or experimental mounts - not many but I have a total of 4 prototypes.
I'm glad you appreciate the theme and transparency <3
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Personally not for me but interesting design despite that. I quite how the front edge is two different colours on the protos (Hope you understand what I mean, I feel like I worded that wrong)
Also appreciate the price breakdown, hope more projects follow your example and do the same.
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Personally not for me but interesting design despite that. I quite how the front edge is two different colours on the protos (Hope you understand what I mean, I feel like I worded that wrong)
Also appreciate the price breakdown, hope more projects follow your example and do the same.
Appreciate the input! Maybe I can get you on a future, less polarizing design! <3
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Personally not for me but interesting design despite that. I quite how the front edge is two different colours on the protos (Hope you understand what I mean, I feel like I worded that wrong)
Also appreciate the price breakdown, hope more projects follow your example and do the same.
Appreciate the input! Maybe I can get you on a future, less polarizing design! <3
I don't think it's polarizing, just some of the things aren't for me. Honestly I like seeing a a lot more variety in design (and this is unique) and you should make the boards you want to make, not appeal to people like me, I'm just a random person giving my thoughts. There seems to be a lot more people who really like the design so what you're doing is fine mate. GLWIC
Also what is the weight and EKH as I don't think it's on the IC thread?
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Personally not for me but interesting design despite that. I quite how the front edge is two different colours on the protos (Hope you understand what I mean, I feel like I worded that wrong)
Also appreciate the price breakdown, hope more projects follow your example and do the same.
Appreciate the input! Maybe I can get you on a future, less polarizing design! <3
I don't think it's polarizing, just some of the things aren't for me. Honestly I like seeing a a lot more variety in design (and this is unique) and you should make the boards you want to make, not appeal to people like me, I'm just a random person giving my thoughts. There seems to be a lot more people who really like the design so what you're doing is fine mate. GLWIC
Also what is the weight and EHK as I don't think it's on the IC thread?
I believe it is 22.75mm. I will confirm this.
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Awesome colors and design. Submitted IC form, if there is hotswap as an option I’m in 100% I hate soldering lol.
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Awesome colors and design. Submitted IC form, if there is hotswap as an option I’m in 100% I hate soldering lol.
Hotswap indeed!
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I'm all in on. FKN LOVE THIS DESIGN.
This is going to look amazing with Sanctuary Rebirth.
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Love the design. I saved this IC URL on my desktop, but after seeing the drama with Cor65XT, not that I blame you entirely, and my own experience with GB runners going solo, I will just skip. Also kinda suss to go solo and have it unlimited already spells disaster. GL to those that join and GLWGB op.
Maybe next time you go with a vendor (not Mechs & Co), but maybe someone more established like Cannonkeys, Novelkeys, Dixie/Omnie, or others then I'll join.
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Love the design. I saved this IC URL on my desktop, but after seeing the drama with Cor65XT, not that I blame you entirely, and my own experience with GB runners going solo, I will just skip. Also kinda suss to go solo and have it unlimited already spells disaster. GL to those that join and GLWGB op.
Maybe next time you go with a vendor (not Mechs & Co), but maybe someone more established like Cannonkeys, Novelkeys, Dixie/Omnie, or others then I'll join.
Prestige Keys will be my international vendor. I would love some more objective feedback if you could. You say "not that I blame you entirely." Could you help me understand what you DO blame me for?
Also, more and more runners are skipping vendors for a myriad of reasons. If you take one bad experience and apply it across the entire community, then by that definition there should be no community.
Can you also explain why it is "suss"? Part of the reason for it being unlimited is because it is so expensive, and I am not a large name like Geon or someone else. So there is really no chance that I sell thousands of boards.
Saying it "spells disaster" is quite presumptive, especially considering the disaster actually occurred because of a vendor.
Legitimately trying to understand. But no worries, I don't want anyone to purchase something they are uncomfortable with. I think 99% of the community sees my responses, transparency, work ethic, and ethical approach in general to outweighing bad experiences that either have nothing to do with me or are out of my control. Hopefully I catch you on the next one. <3
Also as a side note, genuinely asking, are you aware of the finances when you choose a vendor, or how difficult it is at times for multiple reasons to go with some of these vendors?
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Would you offer plain weights?
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I like the board design a lot but I can see the logic behind the vendor comment.Even if you don't sell thousands of boards like Geon, smaller buys like in the hundreds have caused previous runners to fail or disappear. Personally i would hope to see at least a previous track record of smaller group buys before an unlimited one if that makes sense.
i've been tagged in by a friend to help with his sale and I definitely wish you good luck with gb! Common things that often cause problems is number of skus, where you have a huge number of, not to mention giving users the option to buy extra tops, weights, and badges which are a complete pain in the *ss to deal with ordering extras for to ensure the extras are in spec.
great design good luck with it all :thumb:
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Would you offer plain weights?
Maybe down the road when I do things like polished SS and some other exotic finishes. As of now no, since there already a ton of options.
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I like the board design a lot but I can see the logic behind the vendor comment.Even if you don't sell thousands of boards like Geon, smaller buys like in the hundreds have caused previous runners to fail or disappear. Personally i would hope to see at least a previous track record of smaller group buys before an unlimited one if that makes sense.
i've been tagged in by a friend to help with his sale and I definitely wish you good luck with gb! Common things that often cause problems is number of skus, where you have a huge number of, not to mention giving users the option to buy extra tops, weights, and badges which are a complete pain in the *ss to deal with ordering extras for to ensure the extras are in spec.
great design good luck with it all :thumb:
Totally understand. I do think it should also be mentioned, the amount of GBs with issues that included, or were caused by, vendors as well. I truly do appreciate the input though. <3
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quote goes hard, would prefer if baphomet was a little less cutesy but great design still!
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quote goes hard, would prefer if baphomet was a little less cutesy but great design still!
Thanks! You can also get the Ouroboros on the outside too. R2 weights will be less cutesy.
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quote goes hard, would prefer if baphomet was a little less cutesy but great design still!
Thanks! You can also get the Ouroboros on the outside too. R2 weights will be less cutesy.
Cute goat is 100% the best part of the board.