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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Rusty Rat on Sat, 16 October 2010, 06:10:07

Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: Rusty Rat on Sat, 16 October 2010, 06:10:07: Perhaps some of the Topre guys can answer this. The Topre is a combination rubber dome and springs - but rubber domes are notorious for wearing out and generally going either brittle or mushy after a few years. Anyone can build a machine that hammers keys millions of times but how do they test for real world years longevity. Do Topre use some exotic mixture of silicon and rubber to prevent the natural aging of plain old rubber. Car tyres which use some fairly complex additives still get brittle after storage if they are not flexed by a run around the block.

Anyone using an old Topre and a new one to compare any changes? -is there a finite life on the Topre rubber domes –are they going to feel a like a Logitech in 5 years?
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 16 October 2010, 09:20:08: From the Elitekeyboards website:

Quote
The unique electrostatic design of Topre switches requires no physical mechanical coupling and therefore, theoretically, key switch bounce/chatter are eliminated.

As it's a capactive switch, there isn't actually any physical mechanical contact with the rubber dome. As a result, they last for a super long time.
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 16 October 2010, 09:31:16: Spring definitely changes the feel of the snapback of the dome. I think the spring is taking some of the strain or stress off the dome.
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 16 October 2010, 09:43:15: Quote from: ripster
I think it'll last longer but don't expect miracles. You'll probably spill a beer on it before the 10 years/30M Keystrokes are up anyway - that's the way most keyboards die.

I make it a point not to eat or drink near my Topres... too much is at stake!!
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: woody on Sat, 16 October 2010, 12:41:04: Quote from: ripster;234693
You'll probably spill a beer on it before the 10 years/30M Keystrokes are up anyway - that's the way most keyboards die.

(http://mystreamtv.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/8ef92_Angry-Bird.jpg)
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Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: Daniel Beaver on Sat, 16 October 2010, 13:26:45: Realistically? You'll probably replace it with some fancy new thing 10 years from now. Taking the long view, that $250 investment will be well spent.
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: elbowglue on Sat, 16 October 2010, 13:35:03: I have no experience with topre use over years of use. I too however have a fear that the feel of Topres will change over time as the main tactility of the switch is due to the rubber dome. Also, the fact that there are already variable force domes involved in most topres, I suspect variable wear and tear over time on the different weighted domes will occur as well.

It's not like you expect your BMW M3 to drive perfectly in 10 years anyhow eh?
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Sat, 16 October 2010, 14:05:06: I'm making my own Topre.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12127
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 16 October 2010, 15:02:48: Quote from: NewbieOneKenobi;234796
I'm making my own Topre.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12127

I saw that before, but what you're doing seems to be different from a real Topre switch. If it ends up feeling like a real Topre, I'd be really surprised.
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: Rusty Rat on Sat, 16 October 2010, 15:55:19: Rippy says that 95% of the feel is the rubber cup - so in a few years the Topre will feel like any other cheap mushy rubber dome keyboard?

For its price and market positioning it should last as long as a Model M or a Cherry. I have yet to try a Topre but the thought of spending that much money on something that will get consigned to the garage after a couple of years worries me.

For Topre money I could buy a 20 years old IBM Spacesaver (Mini) that will probably last another 20 years.
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: Rusty Rat on Sat, 16 October 2010, 16:02:08: Quote from: ripster;234771
Show Image
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jd6LlMpeSXQ/S7h8HeGD8dI/AAAAAAAAALk/3L0-zYdgN0U/s1600/p303673-Oranjestad-Ostrich_in_your_face.jpg)

Keyboards last longer there because you are pressing upwards.

That's because all the food particles fall downwards.
Australian keyboards don't get beer spill problems because Aussies spill it down their throats instead.
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: Rusty Rat on Sat, 16 October 2010, 16:09:41: Quote from: ripster;234844
Actually this is what I said. Taking a factoid and reaching an outrageous conclusion is what I call the Glenn Beck debating style.

Nope I was referring to "Spring gives maybe 5g of tactile feel, good old rubber gives the rest" so why is that an outrageous conclusion?
And who the hell is Glenn Beck?
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: Lanx on Sun, 17 October 2010, 08:20:54: her sister is the one most ppl are getting confused as a kate perry look alike, while both kate perry and zooey have the 1 in a million glare piercing eyes, zooey doesn't have the body that makes elmo pg13
(http://images.olsen-twins-news.com/photo/large/24273230e6f74a72124c3502dd2f3586/katy-perry/katy-perry-burst-out-of-elmo-shirt-on-saturday-night-live-videos-olsen-twins-news-com-402x290.jpg)
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 17 October 2010, 08:39:27: If you want TRUE 'oneness with cup rubber', there's only one way to get it.

(http://www.amas.net/CU/CU_athletic_cup.jpg)
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 19 October 2010, 07:31:45: Quote from: Julle;235850
As for OP's question, I don't know what to answer. That's why I've sent me an email that I will receive on October 19th 2015. I will then try to answer how the Loch Ness with Robbed Copper is.

I liked your old avatar better...but that least this one is safe for work :D
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: clickclack on Tue, 19 October 2010, 09:51:36: Hi Rusty Rat,

I have had a number of Topre switch boards some older and heavily used and some bran spankin new.
I don't really notice a noteable difference and when I opened them up the silcone looked just at good minus some board chow.

The formulations of the silicone (oils, elastomers) and such coupled with the stem mechanism bottoming out before the actuall rubber would extend the rubber domes life. Also the Topre dome collapses in less harsh way compared to many rubber domes because it's midline is bowed outward instead of straight up and down.

Bottom line is the rubberzzz will hold up quite well, and most of this likely has to do with the dome not being smashed on the bottom stroke.

Hope this helps, and don't worry about it =)
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 16:51:05: Clearly my hypothesis about the spring taking strain off the rubber dome went un-noticed. I guess people read what they want to read...
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: zefrer on Tue, 19 October 2010, 18:45:32: No kidding that's pretty impressive.
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: Arc'xer on Tue, 19 October 2010, 18:51:39: Rusty don't worry about the Topre going out. Topre puts a great deal of effort to make each of their keyboards.

Sure they don't have all bells and whistle especially if your plopping down 200-300 dollars for a keyboard, you'd expect more.

But the Topre should last indefinitely. The fact the domes can be swapped you could probably, if Topre ever sold dome/mat replacement kits, it would last until the electronics wear out.

Topres are considered about 30 million actuation, either way you still got decades of use. I think this is the problem with the whole "mechanical factor" it puts too much of an umbrella term over everything. And some just focus on "Oh it's not mechanical, nevermind".

Remember Topre is a quintuple hybrid switch encompassing many of both worlds.
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: phate408 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 18:52:04: Quote from: zefrer;236151
No kidding that's pretty impressive.

I agree wholeheartedly, and also support the inclusion of Zooey Deschanel. :P
Title: Topre cup rubber oneness – but for how long?
Post by: Arc'xer on Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:02:43: Never know, I'm sure there's people who've used the Topre and contacted them asking if they will ever have some dome kit to change the weight.