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geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: elservo on Mon, 18 October 2010, 20:42:06

Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Mon, 18 October 2010, 20:42:06
This topic should be subtitled "Or why I think my wife is making up for something."

I took my Ruckus to work today, so I am not able to get all the way over to West Ocean City to pick up my pre-order of Fallout: New Vegas, so my wife will be braving the nerds to pick it up for me.  Since I have to drop off a deposit after I close up the theater at midnight, I won't be pulling in until she is hopefully home already, which means my copy of New Vegas might be waiting for me when I walk in.  

(http://icb2.com/boards/Smileys/default/ffuu_troll.png)

Anyone else getting it?  I'm looking forward to weeks and weeks of hoarding bottle caps and stimpacks, and of course, beheading anyone that has the misfortune or walking in the same vicinity as myself.  

Something about the Bethesda games just makes it so easy to get completely lost in minutiae, collecting silly junk and committing wholesale murder while crawling toward the advertised goal of completion, which is the least of my concern since there are so many things to do in the Fallout universe.  Hopefully I'm not the only one excited about this game.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Mon, 18 October 2010, 21:31:21
I have Steam, and it's preloaded. Ready to go the minute it's released. :)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Mon, 18 October 2010, 21:37:23
That tops me!  I was gonna try out Steam at some point since it's running on Macs now, but I don't really game much on the PC, so I don't feel like it would get a hell of a lot of use.  Doubt my Macbook could really run it well anyway, but gaming is not the reason why I got my Macbook anyway.  I wish Steam would come to the PS3.  That would make it the best console by a long shot.  

Enjoy New Vegas!  I'll be joining you soon after you get started.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Mon, 18 October 2010, 22:14:20
You're running on a Mac? Let me know the specs and I'll tell you if it's worth using the PC version (which is way more fun; I played Fallout3 on 360 and PC, PC looks better, controls better, and is more modable).

If you have a Core 2 Duo over 2.4GHz and a graphics card in the 9600GT territory or above then I'd say it's worth playing it on Mac/PC.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: WhiteRice on Mon, 18 October 2010, 22:57:13
I still have to play Fallout 3...
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: audioave10 on Mon, 18 October 2010, 23:00:27
Both of those games are so much better on the PC because of Mods. They can fix almost anything you don't like. They will make the game look much better too as the textures are low resolution for the Xbox.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: ironman31 on Mon, 18 October 2010, 23:05:39
Quote from: WhiteRice;235765
I still have to play Fallout 3...


play it now. It's too good
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Mon, 18 October 2010, 23:07:27
I just have a regular white Macbook, 2.26 GHz or whatevs.  Not really a gaming rig.  Great for everything else, though.  My copy will be waiting for me when I get home.  I really like playing games in my lucky chair anyway.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 00:56:03
waiting for it on torrents, so far nothing out yet.  I may actually break down and buy a legal copy though seeing as this is probably the only non free game I'll play in a year or two, and built a whole system basically just to play it.  The xbox 360 version has been on torrents for like a week now, but still no pc version.


As of this minute it seems like gamestop online is still in pre-order mode, so not sure if I buy it from there right now if I could have it immediately or if I'd have to wait.  It's sort of a toss up.  I hope by tomorrow when I wake up it'll be out on torrents, if not I'll buy it probably.  It'll be a nice stress relief from finals that I also have to take this week.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Ekaros on Tue, 19 October 2010, 03:30:20
2 was beter...
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Mercen_505 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 12:24:04
I'll get the PC version when the inevitable "Game of the Year" edition comes out with all the stuff that was originally made, yet held back to make more money (you folks call that DLC).

I've enjoyed much of Obsidian's work in the past, so this should be good. Eventually ;)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: RickyJ on Tue, 19 October 2010, 13:35:20
I've got about 150 hours into Fallout 3 and the DLC's on my 360, it's hard not to explore everywhere when there's so much story hiding about.  Lincoln's Repeater headshot decapitations ftw!

I'll wait for reviews of the PC version before deciding which platform I'll play it on.  If I play it on my PC it might be better with my wired 360 controller, just like Just Cause 2 and any other console port.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 14:26:11
Only non-PC friendly thing I've found so far is some wicked mouse acceleration in the menus, which should have been addressed at the beginning.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 14:30:19
Nothing on torrents yet.  I guess I'll break down and buy it.  Anyone know for sure who has it downloadable right now?

edit: Nevermind, looks like the first have just appeared on torrents when I rechecked.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 14:53:38
Quote from: ripster;236051
People like you raise the cost for everyone else.

lol

Or was that serious?

I'm not the one that cracked it, or put it up.  All I did was pick up money laying in the street.  If they had better anti-theft protections, and had managed to stave off the crackers a few more hours I probably would have bought it.  It's on them to protect their software, if that raises the price, so be it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:01:02
Then they should learn how to program security better.  Or better yet, put it out for free and ad/ feature support it.

There are only a handful of cracking groups out there that are releasing cracked games on the same day as they come out.  If I were those game corporations I'd be putting those guys on the payroll to come up with anti-cracking technology, or at least using them as testers.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:15:08
Quote from: ripster;236066
I mug old ladies because of their lax security.


(http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/8448273/2/istockphoto_8448273-grandma-with-shotgun.jpg)

Are you kidding? Old ladies have the best security.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: runeazn on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:20:42
its jsut a note but fallout new vegas skidrow + crack is already hours released for torrent

me?
I pre-ordered it
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:23:44
Quote from: ripster;236073
Show Image
(http://www.our-picks.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/windows_pirate.jpg)


So  the solution is to hire more security professionals and that doesn't cost more?

Somebody tell iMav's company that.

Of course it costs more, but they might get more people buying it too, which would then lower the price.  That's if you even assume that costs of a piece of software is based on some fictitious profit based projection that has any basis in reality.  That if even the costs/loss from piracy aren't figured into that projection already.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: runeazn on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:23:55
MW?

meh pre-order here is till 22th :(

Europe release is midnight 22th >:(
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:28:42
Quote from: ripster;236080
So at least we agree piracy raises the price for everyone.

Thanks a lot.


Uh, that's not what I said.  It raises the production cost. It doesn't raise the cost of the end product to the consumer necessarily, because there are a lot of factors at play.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:31:40
Quote from: ripster;236083
You need to learn some business 101.

No wonder you didn't make it to Japan in 2010.

I'm actually majoring in business/management.

You know why console's exist?  It's precisely because courts ruled that it was the responsibility of the software producers to protect their software, and that the end consumer couldn't be held liable for cracking software, and sharing is perfectly legal.

Consoles offered software producers that added security.  That's one of the major features of them, and why software producers gravitated to them/
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: runeazn on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:34:46
argh stop stop stop

okay the costs will be higher you must agree that.
more costs at production dont wanna pay that bash the customers
shop gets bashed shop increase price since they are greedy :/
end price is higher becuase it mostly a nice number itll increase with 5$
and itll end up if it is 50$ dunnow how much for america itll end up 54.99$
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: WhiteRice on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:50:43
This is why the PC gaming industry is dying

Just because it's legal doesn't make it ethical.

e.g. Slavery in the 1800s.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:52:40
Quote from: WhiteRice;236089
This is why the PC gaming industry is dying

Just because it's legal doesn't make it ethical.

e.g. Slavery in the 1800s.


Whether something is legal or not however is one of the tests if something is ethical or not.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:54:09
Quote from: ripster;236090
This thread reminds me why the Future of PC Gaming is....

Show Image
(http://media.smugbox.com/19-582-1-gameBig_farmville.jpg)

Or this:

(http://tech2.in.com/media/images/img_1305_warrock.jpg)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: WhiteRice on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:54:52
Quote from: chimera15;236092
Whether something is legal or not however is one of the tests if something is ethical or not.
LOL What?!

I'm going to come back to this when I get home.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:58:25
Quote from: WhiteRice;236095
LOL What?!

I'm going to come back to this when I get home.

Ethical decision making.  One of the things you learn in business 101.  Legality is the first of several tests, like how does it make you feel about yourself, and such.

http://www.compasssolutions.biz/id27.html (http://www.compasssolutions.biz/id27.html)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: WhiteRice on Tue, 19 October 2010, 16:27:44
Quote
Legal and ethical are not equivalent concepts.

And just becuase something is illegal does not mean that it is unethical. Look up civil disobedience.

If you apply any of the basic ethical theories to this scenario it is clear that stealing games is unethical and wrong.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Mercen_505 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 18:43:27
Quote
This is why the PC gaming industry is dying

B-B-B-Bull****.

PC gaming is on the outs for two reasons:

1 - Developers are much happier working with fixed platforms where compatibility and performance isn't an issue. Time is money, and quite a bit of both are left on the table after spending so much effort getting your game(s) to run on as many PCs as possible. Ask any game programmer how they feel about Intel's video chipsets, which are in an unfortunately large number of computers.

2 - DRM + DLC + hokey installation bull**** (Rockstar Social Club?) plus knowing your games are all going to be half broken until the first few patches come out (Stalker?) convinced many PC gamers to jump ship, or at least tone it down significantly. Why buy Fallout now when I can wait a year and get the whole game for so much less?

If you need a third one, take note of how many PC games actually sell that are not an FPS, RTS, or MMORPG. The answer would be almost none. You can't develop anything genuinely unique on PC and expect it to sell. If it does it's a total fluke. You'll notice I haven't even touched on the subject of budgets and dwindling ROI for modern titles. Piracy has always been an issue, and it has always been rampant from the days of commies and apples to this very day. The game industry is going through the same upheavals that have stricken many similar industries. Piracy is a tiny part of a much larger problem.

/rant
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:20:51
Quote from: WhiteRice;236102
And just becuase something is illegal does not mean that it is unethical. Look up civil disobedience.

If you apply any of the basic ethical theories to this scenario it is clear that stealing games is unethical and wrong.

I don't consider it stealing, and neither do the courts.  Not what I'm doing anyway.  The crackers and the people who put it up on torrents are another matter, and even then they have a right to put it up in a private torrent site, as that is sharing in every legal sense of the word.  It's the same as if a friend handed you a copy of the game, which is perfectly legal.  It's a long way off from walking in a store and walking out with the physical game.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:23:37
Quote from: Mercen_505;236149
B-B-B-Bull****.

PC gaming is on the outs for two reasons:

1 - Developers are much happier working with fixed platforms where compatibility and performance isn't an issue. Time is money, and quite a bit of both are left on the table after spending so much effort getting your game(s) to run on as many PCs as possible. Ask any game programmer how they feel about Intel's video chipsets, which are in an unfortunately large number of computers.

2 - DRM + DLC + hokey installation bull**** (Rockstar Social Club?) plus knowing your games are all going to be half broken until the first few patches come out (Stalker?) convinced many PC gamers to jump ship, or at least tone it down significantly. Why buy Fallout now when I can wait a year and get the whole game for so much less?

If you need a third one, take note of how many PC games actually sell that are not an FPS, RTS, or MMORPG. The answer would be almost none. You can't develop anything genuinely unique on PC and expect it to sell. If it does it's a total fluke. You'll notice I haven't even touched on the subject of budgets and dwindling ROI for modern titles. Piracy has always been an issue, and it has always been rampant from the days of commies and apples to this very day. The game industry is going through the same upheavals that have stricken many similar industries. Piracy is a tiny part of a much larger problem.

/rant

Yeah there are a ton of factors.  There arguments that say piracy has really nothing to do with it.
However it's gotten much worse since the widespread use of torrents.  It was never  as bad or accessible is it is now, and it coincided with the large decrease in a release of pc titles.  There may have been other factors involved like the xbox and ps2 actually being good gaming consoles, not to mention as you state, pretty stringent controlled hardware, but torrents, and the accessibility of them certainly have some impact.  The Scene has always been around, but torrents has really become their uninterrupted distribution source, which was never there before, and you can't stamp it out like Bearshare, Napster, Kazaa ect, cause there's no centralized location, and if you kill one torrent site another one will just pop up.  Not to mention there are private trackers that the government/mpaa can't do a thing about.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: WhiteRice on Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:41:48
Look I never said that piracy was the only reason. You say yourself that it is part of the problem. You are taking my words out of context. Then spewing a bunch of other stuff.

1. Why do they bother developing on PC at all then; because everyone has a PC and you reach a huge market by doing so. Sure there are costs, but the benefits outweigh them or they wouldn't be doing it.

2. You're right developers should have to work for free to provide us with entertainment. Why don't we chain them to their work stations. I'm sure their kids don't need to goto college.

@rip Shogun is going to rock this world.

(http://zachwang.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/IMG_01181.jpg)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Mercen_505 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:44:34
Quote
It's gotten much worse since the widespread use of torrents.

I won't outright deny this, but people downplay the effect BBSs had back in the early 90s. It was typical for a group to release a game about a week before it hit the shelves on the east coast. Anyone with a few floppies or a modem that wanted it, had it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: WhiteRice on Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:46:48
Quote from: chimera15;236173
I don't consider it stealing, and neither do the courts.  Not what I'm doing anyway.  The crackers and the people who put it up on torrents are another matter, and even then they have a right to put it up in a private torrent site, as that is sharing in every legal sense of the word.  It's the same as if a friend handed you a copy of the game, which is perfectly legal.  It's a long way off from walking in a store and walking out with the physical game.

This actually a good point, and something the industry is struggling to find a solution to.

"How do we make sure people playing our game are paying for the experience"
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:54:38
Quote from: Mercen_505;236183
I won't outright deny this, but people downplay the effect BBSs had back in the early 90s. It was typical for a group to release a game about a week before it hit the shelves on the east coast. Anyone with a few floppies or a modem that wanted it, had it.

No I know, like I said, The Scene has always been around.  But back then it took a lot of knowledge and you had to be a certain quality of geek to go to those lengths.  Not to mention modem speeds were a huge hindrance.  Today it's like everyone with a computer might as well just get it from torrents, it's a simple search away.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 20:06:20
Quote from: ripster;236191
I think that "thief" is a harsh term.  I think "leech" is more appropriate.


If I had an income and wasn't a poor student, that's hugely in debt I might consider buying it.  As of now, when someone offers me something for free, I don't see I can afford to turn it down and pay for it out of some idealistic value system that I have to pay to support a giant game company. The time I'm going to waste playing it is going to be more than enough loss to me already.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: WhiteRice on Tue, 19 October 2010, 20:12:47
Quote from: chimera15;236195
If I had an income and wasn't a poor student, that's hugely in debt I might consider buying it.  As of now, when someone offers me something for free, I don't see I can afford to turn it down and pay for it out of some idealistic value system that I have to pay to support a giant game company. The time I'm going to waste playing it is going to be more than enough loss to me already.
Shouldn't you be studying?

:3
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 20:14:03
Quote from: ripster;236196
Then don't go looking for Torrents at Geekhack.  Technically it's against Forum Guidelines but abusing you was more fun.

Um, I wasn't looking for torrents.  I was looking for a legal download source like Gamestop, which at the time, and may still be listing New Vegas as preorder.  So I wasn't sure I could buy it from them and get it immediately.

When I checked torrents again I found it was upped.

I don't need to look for torrents.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 20:17:29
Quote from: WhiteRice;236197
Shouldn't you be studying?

:3


I took a final earlier today.  I'll take the rest tomorrow.   Then I can play for about 5 days before I have to start new classes. lol
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: ironman31 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 22:46:18
Seems to me that Steam is saving PC gaming. Most of the games on there end up dropping so much in price that it's hard not to just go ahead and buy the game. (i.e Left 4 Dead 2 for less than 7 USD about a year after it's released)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 00:04:00
Anyone notice the funny keyboard format on the loading screen?  Wonder what format that is...it's definitely not qwerty.

Oh I guess it is qwerty, just missing the ,. keys.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 05:32:53
Really loving it so far.  Think I'm about half way through the main quest after about 12 hours of play, I'm level 12.  Killed both the casino owners, took control of a robot army, and now trying to get to the brotherhood of steel, but a bunch of hornet type bugs keep killing me.  Guess I gotta get some more levels before I try to get there.  Need power armor.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: ironman31 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 06:58:27
Too many spoilers!
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Wed, 20 October 2010, 07:32:12
Im a broke student with no money and tonnes of debt. I have been looking for a free TV, but havent had any luck. I have checked with all of my friends who steal **** on a regular basis, but they dont have one. hmmmm, well I guess I MIGHT have to buy one.


**edit: oops, no, I found one in some old ladies house. Im all set now.


This is ****ing foolish thread. If something costs money and you take it for free, you are stealing. That is ****ing fact.

This is why I try to support F/OSS whenever possible. Those are people who agree with all of us who think software ought to be free, or at least a hell of a lot cheaper. The difference is that they put their money where their mouth is and contribute to the solution, not the problem (And you ARE a part of the problem, especially as it is perceived by the publishers of non-free software).

The thing is, you can argue all you want, you really are a free-loader with a feeling of self-entitlement.


Quote
So I'm thinking of building a new i7

Quote
I have some spare money from my school refund. It's been a lifelong dream for me to go to Japan

Quote
I may actually break down and buy a legal copy though seeing as this is probably the only non free game I'll play in a year or two, and built a whole system basically just to play it

wait for it ...

Quote from: chimera15;236195
If I had an income and wasn't a poor student, that's hugely in debt I might consider buying it.

smell that HORSE****! P-EWWWWWWWWW.

You DID consider buying it, you were THIS close to buying and money was definitely not the deciding factor. Which tells me you either DO have the disposable income, or you are extremely stupid and have no idea how to live within your means.

Quote from: chimera15;236195
when someone offers me something for free, I don't see I can afford to turn it down and pay for it out of some idealistic value system that I have to pay to support a giant game company.


Entertainment is not a right, it is a privilege. Not everyone can afford the latest and greatest, or even the old ****. There are alternatives, there are many cheap/free independent games. Or, Take Mercen_505 for example. He/she understands value (didn't they teach you that in Business 101) and has patience to wait for the inevitable price drop.

Quote from: chimera15;236195

The time I'm going to waste playing it is going to be more than enough loss to me already.

I guess the software company should reimburse YOU then?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 20 October 2010, 07:54:43
Well all I can say is I thought it was weird when his 2 choices were 'go to Japan' or 'build an i7 machine' but then in the thread he was like 'oh yea or maybe I should pay off my debt'. You don't go to Japan or build an expensive computer if you're in debt. That's just incredibly stupid.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: kriminal on Wed, 20 October 2010, 10:23:30
Quote from: chimera15;236055
Then they should learn how to program security better.  Or better yet, put it out for free and ad/ feature support it.

There are only a handful of cracking groups out there that are releasing cracked games on the same day as they come out.  If I were those game corporations I'd be putting those guys on the payroll to come up with anti-cracking technology, or at least using them as testers.


bull**** excuse to pirate imho...

just saying...
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Wed, 20 October 2010, 10:25:43
Spoilers, good god!!!  

Sorry this thread became all about piracy.  I was just hoping it would be a wondrous celebration of the Fallout universe!  

Does Steam have Fallout 2 available for Mac?  Probably not, but I thought I'd ask.  It might be fun to play it at work or something.  

...not that I would ever goof off at work.


And oh, I've noticed that while walking through the landscape that my PS3 stutters a little.  So far, the game has only crashed once on me but it feels like it's been close to it a couple other times.  I just find myself saving the game a lot to combat the possible crashes.  Hopefully they put a patch out soon.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Wed, 20 October 2010, 10:48:38
Haha, nah, I'm all about some debate.  I just hope that all this talk had gotten you interested in trying out the game, Rip.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 11:57:35
Quote from: keyboardlover;236303
Well all I can say is I thought it was weird when his 2 choices were 'go to Japan' or 'build an i7 machine' but then in the thread he was like 'oh yea or maybe I should pay off my debt'. You don't go to Japan or build an expensive computer if you're in debt. That's just incredibly stupid.

You have to understand that for me there's a difference between being in debt without an income and being in debt with an income.  My finances are static.  If I spend my money on one thing, it's not getting replenished.  The current finances I have I need to use to either get a job so I have income, or fulfill responsibilities I have to people around me, which both building an i7 or going to Japan would be doing.  They might look like something you would do for fun or vacation, but that was never the point.  I understand the question in itself might seem misleading, but there were a great deal of qualifications that had to be understood to make an informed decision.

As far as the other arguments, the simple one that if you take something that you didn't pay for, you're stealing.  I didn't take it, someone else did, and to ask someone to refuse something that's there for free is pretty ridiculous. You comparing it to real life theft is pretty dumb as well.  When you steal something you deprive the use of it from someone else, not to mention it's usually a violent act, which is even more unfair.  If anyone could walk up to a ferrari and copy it instantaneously, how long do you think car companies would be in business?  Copying software is a long way from what you describe.

I was going to buy it, but that's because I have a finite amount of time to play it, and wanted to start on it yesterday, I was about to if I could get it instantaneously from a software source, but wasn't sure I could do that, which is why I asked here if anyone else had.  But then saw it was already up.  Asking me then to forego the free source and buy it at that point....  Well it's just not going to happen.  You're probably right, probably not even if I had money.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:15:26
Quote from: chimera15
The current finances I have I need to use to either get a job so I have income, or fulfill responsibilities I have to people around me, which both building an i7 or going to Japan would be doing.  They might look like something you would do for fun or vacation, but that was never the point.


I would love to hear an explanation as to how either going to Japan or building an i7 will get you a job or fulfill responsibilities you have to people around you.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:22:56
Quote from: keyboardlover;236413
I would love to hear an explanation as to how either going to Japan or building an i7 will get you a job or fulfill responsibilities you have to people around you.


It's in that thread if you read it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:31:01
Quote from: ripster;236410
We have guys in our neighborhood that sell car radios for cheap.
Show Image
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3307640432_541f96cfac.jpg?v=0)

I've bought a car stereo from one of those guys before.  That was before ebay existed though, and was less obvious and known for sure that that kind of thing is associated with thievery.  

Even so, if they are, they're selling them, not giving out copies of them for free.  There's a difference there as well.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:37:36
Quote from: chimera15
It's in that thread if you read it.


A. You shouldn't need to go to Japan (or any other country) just to get a job. It makes even less sense since you said you're in school.

B. If all you need is a computer for school you could spend ~$300 on a computer that would have all the capabilities you would need to do schoolwork.

IMHO if want to travel that far and get a job go to New Zealand (http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/). They need skilled workers, plus they speak English. Hope you like sheep!

You can even do a working holiday (http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/workingholiday/) there. It's one of the easiest countries to immigrate to, and they have plenty of jobs.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:39:55
Quote from: keyboardlover;236424
A. You shouldn't need to go to Japan (or any other country) just to get a job. It makes even less sense since you said you're in school.

B. If all you need is a computer for school you could spend ~$300 on a computer that would have all the capabilities you would need to do schoolwork.

IMHO if want to travel that far and get a job go to New Zealand (http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/). They need skilled workers, plus they speak English. Hope you like sheep!

You can even do a working holiday (http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/workingholiday/) there. It's one of the easiest countries to immigrate to, and they have plenty of jobs.


Stop trying to bring that thread to this one, this is about fallout.  If you want to argue about it and my reasons go post in that thread, and read some of it.  I've already had this argument over there.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:56:10
I noticed you essentially ignore my post. It's cool, you have clearly shown your colours. You can pay for **** to PLAY games, because there's no way you are getting a free gaming PC, but you cant splurge on the software. Basically, you are the WORST thief ever, too chicken **** to actually go out there and steal **** for yourself, you have to leech off others

...

Oh wait, didnt someone mention that already?

Oh, and FYI, if the cops catch you with something hot, I'm pretty sure "well I didn't steal it" isn't gonna fly.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:56:32
Meanwhile, in New Zealand

(http://www.reggie.net/photos/ireland/sligo/carrowkeel/4737304_black_and_white_sheep-600.jpg)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Mercen_505 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:04:27
Sadly, I'm rather surprised that the game is still so buggy. I noticed that my F3 Game of the Year edition was infested with CTD (that's Crash To Desktop) bugs, whereas my neighbor's launch version was less buggy. He had a hell of a time getting all the DLC to integrate properly, which you'd think would be a no-brainer. Thanks, GFW Live!

Keeping that track record in mind, it's possible the inevitable New Vegas GOTY edition may very well be totally unplayable. I'm having Stalker flashbacks just thinking of it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:11:42
Quote from: instantkamera;236433
I noticed you essentially ignore my post. It's cool, you have clearly shown your colours. You can pay for **** to PLAY games, because there's no way you are getting a free gaming PC, but you cant splurge on the software. Basically, you are the WORST thief ever, too chicken **** to actually go out there and steal **** for yourself, you have to leech off others

...

Oh wait, didnt someone mention that already?

Oh, and FYI, if the cops catch you with something hot, I'm pretty sure "well I didn't steal it" isn't gonna fly.

I didn't ignore your post.  I just didn't quote you cause I quoted someone else.  You obviously ignored my post though.

The law is clear, what I'm doing is not theft and it's not against the law.  If the cops arrest you for doing something which isn't illegal, well.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:13:50
Quote from: Mercen_505;236435
Sadly, I'm rather surprised that the game is still so buggy. I noticed that my F3 Game of the Year edition was infested with CTD (that's Crash To Desktop) bugs, whereas my neighbor's launch version was less buggy. He had a hell of a time getting all the DLC to integrate properly, which you'd think would be a no-brainer. Thanks, GFW Live!

Keeping that track record in mind, it's possible the inevitable New Vegas GOTY edition may very well be totally unplayable. I'm having Stalker flashbacks just thinking of it.


Interesting.  I haven't had one crash so far.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:19:17
Quote from: ripster;236440
Arrrrghhhh!
Show Image
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gX0VAo_EKWY/THCsLtb6bPI/AAAAAAAAEyg/1tFcftQGHyg/s1600/software+piracy.jpg)

It's not like I'm out there on the street corner reselling it.  That would definitely be illegal and unethical.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:28:13
Quote from: chimera15;236437
I didn't ignore your post.  I just didn't quote you cause I quoted someone else.  You obviously ignored my post though.

The law is clear, what I'm doing is not theft and it's not against the law.  If the cops arrest you for doing something which isn't illegal, well.


Im pretty sure the law is anything BUT clear. Depending where you live, this activity (file sharing) may or may not be legal or "tolerated". In MANY Countries, the laws currently in place are under scrutiny by those on the other side of the coin. As this is currently a very REAL issue, it is clear there is more to it then:

a) all software (or IP in general) should be free/shared etc.

b) the Industry should be able to dictate the usage of a piece of work to the letter, having supreme control over everything.

The issue is not black and white. So you arent a thief, just a cheapskate. And still full of ****.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:29:22
HEY



HEY GUYS




LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GAME k????????
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:32:55
I have never played a fallout game. What's the deal? is it an FPS? Is it available on the PS3?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:33:45
Quote from: instantkamera;236446
Im pretty sure the law is anything BUT clear. Depending where you live, this activity (file sharing) may or may not be legal or "tolerated". In MANY Countries, the laws currently in place are under scrutiny by those on the other side of the coin. As this is currently a very REAL issue, it is clear there is more to it then:

a) all software (or IP in general) should be free/shared etc.

b) the Industry should be able to dictate the usage of a piece of work to the letter, having supreme control over everything.

The issue is not black and white. So you arent a thief, just a cheapskate. And still full of ****.


The fact is it's not been black and white since software has existed.  There's not going to be a solution because there isn't any.  That in my mind makes it pretty white.  Computers were made to crack and hack.  That was what they were originally designed to do, and are doing so to this day.  That's their purpose.  Putting a piece of intellectual property on one and hoping for it to be 100% secure and marketable therefore is a foolhardy attempt.  Or for that matter, any piece of pure media.

The only way you can even attempt it is to match exploit with anti-exploit, and it will continue to be this way.  Game companies are lagging far behind security, it's obvious.  Their games shouldn't be cracked the day they come out.

Even xbox, New Vegas was out and cracked for modded xboxes a week before it was released.  This shouldn't happen.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:43:06
Quote from: instantkamera;236450
I have never played a fallout game. What's the deal? is it an FPS? Is it available on the PS3?

Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas are post-apocalyptic sandbox RPG FPS games with a lot of dark humor and a strong fanbase, though a history of technical issues. They are available on PC, 360, and PS3.

Fallout and Fallout 2 were post-apocalyptic isometric RPGs from the late 1990s with a lot of dark humor and an amazingly strong cult following, and a history of technical issues. Only for PC.

There was also Fallout: Tactics, which was an isometric tactical shooter that was kind of ok, and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel, which sucked balls. And "Van Buren", which was going to be Fallout 3, but Interplay went bankrupt so it was never finished. Then the IP was sold to Bethesda, who made Fallout 3, and they then licensed it to Obsidian (made up of former Interplay developers) to make Fallout: New Vegas.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:46:25
and wasteland.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:55:47
I just checked Steam for old Fallout games on Mac, and nope, no dice.  Oh well, it was worth a look.  I didn't know of any issues between Apple and the publisher for Fallout, so I guess if I had done a little homework first I wouldn't have went looking for it.  Lots of games on Steam for Mac, though.  That's good to see.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Wed, 20 October 2010, 14:02:56
Geekhack is for guys who find fly-fishing too vigorous.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 20 October 2010, 14:12:24
i wonder if his stance is still the same 34 years later.
Quote
By William Henry Gates III

February 3, 1976

An Open Letter to Hobbyists

To me, the most critical thing in the hobby market right now is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself. Without good software and an owner who understands programming, a hobby computer is wasted. Will quality software be written for the hobby market?

Almost a year ago, Paul Allen and myself, expecting the hobby market to expand, hired Monte Davidoff and developed Altair BASIC. Though the initial work took only two months, the three of us have spent most of the last year documenting, improving and adding features to BASIC. Now we have 4K, 8K, EXTENDED, ROM and DISK BASIC. The value of the computer time we have used exceeds $40,000.

The feedback we have gotten from the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. Two surprising things are apparent, however, 1) Most of these "users" never bought BASIC (less than 10% of all Altair owners have bought BASIC), and 2) The amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists makes the time spent on Altair BASIC worth less than $2 an hour.

Why is this? As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, most of you steal your software. Hardware must be paid for, but software is something to share. Who cares if the people who worked on it get paid?

Is this fair? One thing you don't do by stealing software is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had. MITS doesn't make money selling software. The royalty paid to us, the manual, the tape and the overhead make it a break-even operation. One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute for free? The fact is, no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft.

What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at.

I would appreciate letters from any one who wants to pay up, or has a suggestion or comment. Just write to me at 1180 Alvarado SE, #114, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87108. Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software.



Bill Gates

General Partner, Micro-Soft
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Wed, 20 October 2010, 14:36:22
Bill Gates would have made something of himself if only he had dropped that dash between Micro and Soft.  Poor guy.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 20 October 2010, 15:48:17
Quote from: ripster;236475
Perhaps Bill Gates is not the best model for ethical behavior....

How about this guy?

Hey, it is legal in my state!
Show Image
(http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4bbdf1677f8b9a6e627d0400/tiger-woods-commercial.jpg)


Bill gates is giving away billions to charity while tiger has to pay millions for alimony. Who has a better sense of ethics?

really the crux of all this copyright and who deserves to get paid? lets look at example 1, Linus Torvalds, he just became a US citizen and of course is known as inventor/writer of Linux. He wrote a free OS, and other companys like Red Hat profitted by packaging the rewritten OS into a CD and offering support. Of course Red Hat didn't want to seem like a total ingrate and gave Linus stock options, but they didn't have to either. He has a good job position now and does well, but that's because he's Linus Torvalds, he made Linux, just like Bill Gates can go around the world giving free mosquito nets and vaccines to everyone, ppl will still think, hey his OS is running my netbook.

copyright pays and hurts industry,

buy a whole cd to get one song, everyone knows 90% of a CD is junk.
now they release singles. and itunes

well why can't Bluray be like this? why can't i just get a stripped down blue ray with no director's commentary or extra's and pay less?

the music industry wants everyone to pay for everything, they make it impossible for internet radio to function but let FM radio off the hook, a whole generation of ppl were brought up on the notion of a "mixed tape" were ppl really recording from one tape to another or were they waiting for the stupid DJ to stop talking so they could ninja press "play" + "rec" really fast?

Now if you give a mixed tape/CD/thumb drive to someone, your considerated a pirate.

i'm not taking a stance, just making a statement that the RIAA and the movie industry are all sorts of messed up with digital media and copyright and fair rights, and dvr's and tivo's and everything, while the software industry has always been at least constant, you steal... you steal, no wiggle room.
Of course even the software industry has stupid rules where MS says that windows is tied to a specific motherboard purchase/ or now the new license whatever thing with autodesk.

I just recently had a dinner convo with one guy and said that his movie nights with friends are essentially against the law, he's like how? and i'm like well your playing the dvd in your house and making a profit, he's like i don't make a profit. I go sure you do, as a good house guest ppl bring over sodas/beers chips and stuff right? he goes yea, I go well that could be considered an admission fee, cuz otherwise they wouldn't be allowed in.

Of course my example is absurd, but a good lawyer i'm sure could make a case out of it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: WhiteRice on Wed, 20 October 2010, 15:52:42
Quote from: chimera15;236451
Computers were made to crack and hack.  


Computers were made to calculate artillery tables.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:09:30
Quote from: WhiteRice;236491
Computers were made to calculate artillery tables.


Uh, no, the first real computers or really calculators in modern times (non roman times) were made to gamble on horse racing.  There were tons of mechanical calculators leading up to ww2, that did a variety of things.  The first electronic ones which  could more accurately be defined as computers were built to crack codes.  Artillery falls probably somewhere in between there.  Actually Eniac and Colussus were sort of a tie.  


Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:20:56
Quote from: chimera15;235788
this is probably the only non free game I'll play in a year or two, and built a whole system basically just to play it.


Quote from: chimera15;236195
If I had an income and wasn't a poor student, that's hugely in debt I might consider buying it.


The sickening thing about your attitude is not so much that you want something for nothing. Most of us have "tested" software without paying for it at some stage. But you were so hyped about this upcoming game that you built a new system to play it on, and you are STILL unwilling to reward the creators?

My personal ethic is that if I *use* a product (as opposed to explore it) I will pay for it. That's why I bought Photoshop and several upgrades, even though it's insanely overpriced for personal use.

You can argue semantics all you like. You are acting dishonestly. Just because the people you are defrauding cannot hunt you down personally and you will get away with it, that doesn't mean your actions aren't illegal and unethical. You can't even be honest with yourself. If you built a system primarily for the game you could have afforded to pay for it.

If you are studying business ethics maybe you should put your own example forward for a class discussion. You might be surprised by the reactions.

===============
Edit> Not worth adding another post, but wanted to point this out:

Quote from: chimera15;236098
Ethical decision making.  One of the things you learn in business 101.  Legality is the first of several tests, like how does it make you feel about yourself, and such.

http://www.compasssolutions.biz/id27.html (http://www.compasssolutions.biz/id27.html)


Did you even read the first paragraph of the page you linked???

Quote
Is it legal?
This is the first filter through which your ethical decision will pass.  Legal and ethical are not equivalent concepts.  ...  Don’t simply stop your ethical decision making process at whether an action is legal.  The law may not address something making it legal but it still may [be] unethical.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:32:26
Quote from: Rajagra;236496
The sickening thing about your attitude is not so much that you want something for nothing. Most of us have "tested" software without paying for it at some stage. But you were so hyped about this upcoming game that you built a new system to play it on, and you are STILL unwilling to reward the creators?

My personal ethic is that if I *use* a product (as opposed to explore it) I will pay for it. That's why I bought Photoshop and several upgrades, even though it's insanely overpriced for personal use.

You can argue semantics all you like. You are acting dishonestly. Just because the people you are defrauding cannot hunt you down personally and you will get away with it, that doesn't mean your actions aren't illegal and unethical. You can't even be honest with yourself. If you built a system primarily for the game you could have afforded to pay for it.

If you are studying business ethics maybe you should put your own example forward for a class discussion. You might be surprised by the reactions.


I wouldn't be surprised at the reaction, because the mpaa has so clouded the issue, and put forth ridiculous arguments that people that are clear thinking about the issue are just shouted down.

 It's not semantics, it's actually a very complex issue, as shown by the court decisions, and the endless appeals on the mpaa's side after the issue has already been decided over and over again on my side.  Courts don't rule on semantics.

I didn't really build the system for just fallout.  That was a complete simplification as it should be obvious.  I actually built it for Warrock.  Or actually in reality I built it just to build it to learn the ins and outs of building a socket 1366 system so I know how to work on them if I get a job as a pc tech as I have in the past.  Not to mention to learn how to overclock.  

Warrock is a free game that is ad and perk supported, and is a successful business model, even though it's been hacker ridden since its inception.  Fallout was probably about 10% of why I built it.  I have 3 other machines that could have run it as good or better than the 1366 system I built, cause right now I have crap graphics cards in it to play war rock on which has a bug in it right now that seems to work better with older graphics cards.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:44:26
They should sell games with those intense graph cards that you have to match up, character-wise.  I know it would be cracked within a couple minutes by nerds with too many algorithms rattling about in their brains, but I just always dug those cards.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:55:17
Quote from: WhiteRice;236491
Computers were made to calculate artillery tables.

Alright, here's a better clarification.

http://www.askthecomputertech.com/eniac.html (http://www.askthecomputertech.com/eniac.html)

The code breaking computers were kept secret, and so no patents were issued.  The first computers were code breakers/crackers.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:00:39
Quote from: Rajagra;236496


Did you even read the first paragraph of the page you linked???


Uh, I believe I said that.  Do people even read a second sentence if I write it?  They just read the first sentence or first few words then ignore the rest?


Originally Posted by chimera15 View Post
Ethical decision making. One of the things you learn in business 101. Legality is the first of several tests, like how does it make you feel about yourself, and such.

http://www.compasssolutions.biz/id27.html
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:12:25
The point is, it is a "necessary but insufficient" test. It can prove something to be unethical, but it can't prove anything to be ethical.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:19:36
Quote from: ripster;236512
Actually the codecrackers (called bombes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe)) were built by the "Greatest Generation" in order to fight pure evil.

Something slackers wouldn't know about.  Making up ethics to suit your needs.

Evil is relative.  You can define anything as evil, and justify your actions.  The fact is that computers were made to crack into and read private messages, and compromise intellectual property.  You can choose to justify that as being some higher purpose, but at it's foundation it's unethical, and even illegal if you were to try it in a non war condition.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:23:22
It's still illegal to crack or use cracked software if the license forbids it in the terms of you using it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Thu, 21 October 2010, 06:46:06
Cant argue anymore, this will turn into another "Graphics Cards" ... This guy is so full of **** that my monitor is starting to stink.

We win by default because of this:

Quote
I didn't really build the system for just fallout. That was a complete simplification as it should be obvious. I actually built it for Warrock. Or actually in reality I built it just to build it to learn the ins and outs of building a socket 1366 system so I know how to work on them if I get a job as a pc tech as I have in the past. Not to mention to learn how to overclock ... Fallout was probably about 10% of why I built it ...

=

Quote
I can't even write an entire paragraph without contradicting myself

Clearly there is some form of inner struggle going on, so we'll let you continue that on your own.

Back to the game!!
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Thu, 21 October 2010, 07:50:30
I declare this thread fail.




Anyway, I've played the game long enough to spot most of the things that annoy me. Now time to head over to newvegasnexus.com to get mods to fix them. Not a *ton* of mods are out yet, but several useful ones are, such as the one to fix mouse acceleration, and one to give a further-out 3rd person view.

Only thing that pisses me off that a mod probably won't fix is graphics performance. With my Radeon HD4870 1GB I can totally max Fallout 3 on 1440x900 with a framerate of 45-80. In New Vegas, which has no graphical upgrades, I get 20-50. This should not be, since New Vegas actually has worse graphics for everything except faces; textures and objects pop in a lot closer even with draw distances maxed, new textures are muddy and un-detailed, there's less water and it isn't as well detailed... It isn't even DX10, it's all DX9 stuff. Why the **** can't I max this game like FO3? Because they didn't optimize it.

At least I don't have an nVidia card. I've heard that Nvidia users are getting terrible performance; GTX460s are performing at levels you'd expect of a GT440.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Thu, 21 October 2010, 07:59:37
I don't fold, personally.

As for FNV, I wonder if it's a CPU bottleneck... Maybe I'll bump up to 3700MHz and see if it's faster. :)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:03:35
Quote from: keyboardlover;236517
It's still illegal to crack or use cracked software if the license forbids it in the terms of you using it.


Civilly, not criminally. That doesn't address the ethical issues.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:18:29
Bethesda is now forcing reviewers to pull negative reviews until the ad campaign is over or they won't advertise or ship preview games/materials to them ever again. Was this mentioned earlier in this thread?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:26:36
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;236734
Bethesda is now forcing reviewers to pull negative reviews until the ad campaign is over or they won't advertise or ship preview games/materials to them ever again. Was this mentioned earlier in this thread?


sha-dy


So I guess I should try fallout3 first on my ps3.

"durr, what's a fallout?" ... ****, can you tell Im not a gamer?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: zefrer on Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:37:18

Guess I'll wait till it isn't a horrible broken mess released too soon.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:38:30
Quote from: ripster;236743
Well I knew you were here just for the trollin'.


not true. I'm here to stalk you. Until I saw your forearm in the writing utensil thread I though you were a chick. I'm still not convinced otherwise.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Ekaros on Thu, 21 October 2010, 17:49:29
OK, now I'm kinda happy I didn't pre-order CE as I was going to, but then they announced it so much after US in EU that I forgot...
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Mercen_505 on Thu, 21 October 2010, 18:14:41
Quote
Bethesda is now forcing reviewers to pull negative reviews until the ad campaign is over or they won't advertise or ship preview games/materials to them ever again. Was this mentioned earlier in this thread?

This is SOP for any publisher (and sometimes devs) with real clout. The 'net is starting to mitigate this particular nastiness, but it still happens. If you don't want the occasional bad review, then don't make a game. I've always found it terrible business for review mags/sites to sell ad space to game developers. On the surface you'd think it would be the right thing to do, what with the target audience buying games (!), but then **** like this happens and people start to wake up to the fact that you never really had any credibility from the moment you took your first dollar from the industry you supposedly hold to task.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 21 October 2010, 18:32:59
Finally got power armor, and became a paladin. Was starting to think it wasn't possible almost.  hehehe.  Kinda sucks though, it's basically you have to make an enemy of almost everyone else in the region to do it, including the ncr which sucks cause they send people to kill you all the time.  I suppose there might be an alternative way to learn how to wear powerarmor but haven't seen any indications of it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 21 October 2010, 19:06:18
Quote from: ripster

At least you got your money's worth.


(http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/pwnt-31487.jpg)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 00:00:54
Final legionnaire guy is impossible to kill for me.  I think I messed up my skills or something.  Can't damage him no matter what I do.  Plus I'm completely cut off, after I went through a giant gauntlet already, there's no where to heal or get supplies.  That's pretty messed up.  It's incredibly impossible on the hard mode.  The stupid part is I have enough speech it looks like to get out of the fight with him, but am like super injured and can't heal my body parts cause I need a doctor in hard mode.

I suppose I could redo the battle in easy mode.  That might be the simplest way out.  Sucks though, played the whole game in hard and almost done looks like.  My stupid robots won't follow me into camp, darnit.

Hmm, I suppose all I really have to do is go back to the last save point I had a stimpak, then heal down in easy mode..then continue from there...that might work....
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: RoboKrikit on Fri, 22 October 2010, 01:46:49
I was once like chimera15.  I was young, had no money, and the Internet was a free software shopping spree; I justified my pirating using the superpowers of denial and logic.  Now I usually buy my software.  There is hope.

I actually did build my new box for Fallout New Vegas, though I of course had plenty of other things in mind that somehow justified the cost. :)  But I have to wait until Monday to play. :(
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: elservo on Fri, 22 October 2010, 02:50:52
It's too bad the big hardware companies can't make great games too, huh?  That way they would still get your money by making you buy their latest rig to get the best performance.  

*Waits for 50 examples of why I'm wrong*
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 22 October 2010, 05:31:15
Quote from: RoboKrikit;237133
I was once like chimera15.  I was young, had no money, and the Internet was a free software shopping spree; I justified my pirating using the superpowers of denial and logic.  Now I usually buy my software.  There is hope.


Chimera's 37 though. Old enough to know better.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Fri, 22 October 2010, 06:26:12
Quote from: keyboardlover;237156
Chimera's 37 though. Old enough to know better.


Chimera37?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 08:32:19
Quote from: instantkamera;237172
Chimera37?

I was 15 when I built my first computer(an at clone, pirated?) and started my first forays into bbs's and such.  I've been chimera15 for like 22 years. lol  Not going to change a good user name.  It's really got nothing to do with age though.  Why do people always assume that?  It's mainly easy to use cause no one has it on most message boards, even the really big ones.  There usually is a chimera, 1, 2, 3, already.  Hate using hours coming up with a new name when the one you want is taken, so I just use this one.

I suppose my views on piracy/software have a lot to do on how I was raised.  Back in the 80's and even 70's my father had access to pirated, or really what has come to be known as pirated, but really shared stuff through his work, so I never knew any different. I always lived by the philosophy that software should be free. When I was about 10 in middle school, a friend of mine got a computer, and I offered him some software, and was shocked by his attitude that he would actually want to pay for it.  Back in those days that was a pretty rare attitude.  Most of my friends were all into sharing, pirating, and even cracking software. Pretty much lost a friend over it even. lol

Don't get me wrong, I've bought tons of software over the years.  I used to buy games too.  I've got like 5 huge cd folders full of legal cd's of games, and apps.  100's even 1000's of titles.  I just don't see much point to it anymore.  Especially not given how it depreciates. The reality is software really isn't worth anything, or it wouldn't be worthless the minute you buy it.  It represents thousands of dollars of my debt that I'm not able to recoup if I have to go bankrupt, as I would with tools, materials, or hardware.  It's really the one thing that has no value in actuality.

It's actually a really good idea to tie software to hardware.  You saw that with halo, and halo versions of xbox's.  And fallout has merchandise too.  It's a much better business model.  There are workable business models where software and media is free.  It's like Mel Brooks said,  "Merchandising! It's where the real money is made." Or something to that effect.

I also consider myself a Utopian.   I believe ultimately everything will be free, and there will be enough for everyone to have whatever they want.  If they need something, they can make it themselves, easily.  Computers have the ability to make that come true.  Software and media is just the first step.  You look at ebay, and you see it happening with hardware and other things well.  Most things are coming out of China, a forced utopian communist society for pennies.

Is paying 5 cents for something coming out of china stealing when it costs $10 for the exact same thing in America?  I suppose the difference is if it's patented or not?   Even if it's not patented. I'm supposed to pay $9.99 cents for something when it's real cost is 5 cents, because someone in the location on the planet that I am bounded by an imaginary line says they thought of it first, or because the cost of labor is greater here? Just doesn't seem right to me.

I built my 1366 system mostly with es/made parts out of China, or used/refurb parts and it cost me a fraction of what the same parts would have cost me if I bought it in a store here in America.  Is that theft, piracy, communism, utopianism, or is that being a good capitalist?


I suppose it comes down to lines we all draw.  Some people draw their lines at writing virus's and showing people that software is meaningless and worthless, and justify their ethics in that.  Others draw their lines, at having to pay for everything, and that software writers should be paid.  I think I actually fall somewhere in the middle, and am comfortable with that.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 09:32:29
What the hell kind of parts are you buying from China?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 22 October 2010, 09:38:33
I learned about software privacy through a popular television commercial:
Don't Copy That Floppy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Copy_That_Floppy)

It's use of rap and hipness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI) attracted me to pay for software. Paying for software is much cooler than stealing it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Co-Op on Fri, 22 October 2010, 09:44:49
(http://w-shadow.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/piracy-is-not-theftreally.png)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 10:02:38
Yeah and Nancy Regan stopped me from doing drugs.  Pretty amazing that people get their morals from tv commercials instead of actually thinking about it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 10:04:31
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;237236
What the hell kind of parts are you buying from China?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280555525533&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280555525533&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: audioave10 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 10:15:36
As far as the game itself...I'm already using Mods to adjust the game to my playing style.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 22 October 2010, 10:47:27
Quote from: chimera15
Pretty amazing that people get their morals from tv commercials instead of actually thinking about it.


It's clear that you've been thinking. About what, I have no idea.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 22 October 2010, 10:56:26
My 2 pence - if you like it, buy it.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Co-Op on Fri, 22 October 2010, 11:10:29
Quote from: keyboardlover;237299
It's clear that you've been thinking. About what, I have no idea.

The TV commercial made me post this.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: RoboKrikit on Fri, 22 October 2010, 14:29:52
Quote from: keyboardlover;237156
Chimera's 37 though. Old enough to know better.


...

Go buy the game, dude! :)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 15:34:31
Ahahaha I managed to take down the entire legion single handedly.  With 0 stimpaks.  I ran over to the tents and confronted them 1 on 1 and looted all their corpses for healing powders and weapons and chainsaws..and finally wasted the head legionaire by chainsawing him to death.  He can't hit you when you're chainsawing him and he's switched to his carbine. roflol  Hahaha.  Ended up with 1 health left. roflol
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 15:54:19
Awe man, now I really am stuck, it just never ends. geesh.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 16:17:48
Who needs stimpacks when you have Sunset Sasparillo? Use it to heal up between fights. It's all over the place and heals 2hp/s for 25 seconds, so that's 50 health per bottle. I save my stimpacks for cripple limbs and emergencies.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 16:44:51
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;237489
Who needs stimpacks when you have Sunset Sasparillo? Use it to heal up between fights. It's all over the place and heals 2hp/s for 25 seconds, so that's 50 health per bottle. I save my stimpacks for cripple limbs and emergencies.

Sunset Saspraillo heals me about 5 bars, max on hard mode, and takes a long time to work, it's next to worthless in hardcore mode.


I finally beat it.  I managed to make it around the corner and the securitrons finished them off.  So finished the main quest.

omg, it's not open ended like fallout 3?? wth.  You can't continue and finish your side quests after all that.  Wow that sucks.  What good is it then!??  Argh all that for nothing.  geesh.

The credits are interesting.  Micheal Dorn, and Felicia Day among others. lol

Rob Corddry, Dave Foley. lol


The game took me 3 1/2 days to beat, and not open ended.... definitely a disappointment.  Some of the dlc's for fallout 3 took me that long.

I think this should have just been an add on to fallout 3.  It would have been much better that way.  They could have done it with some minor tweaks, and let the game be open ended, geesh.  I spent a whole day on retaking the dam, gained levels, weapons, and now I can't even use them in the main game.  That's just wrong. That has to be changed in an update or something.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/8998/obsidian-explain-why-fallout-new-vegas-has-a-definitive-ending (http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/8998/obsidian-explain-why-fallout-new-vegas-has-a-definitive-ending)

That's pretty lazy if you read that article.  They did all that work, then can't change a few things at the end so it can be open ended.  Most of the slides they talked about, were what people did years in the future,  the slides were completely unnecessary.  "We know people like slides" The hell? lol



So if anyone knows where I can get a hack/mod to let me keep exploring let me know. lol

I don't see playing it anymore, if it will be fixed.  There's not a whole lot of side quests, certainly not ones that look very interesting, that I have left at any rate.  Anyone know if there is and what the level cap is?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 22 October 2010, 18:22:05
Ah it's level 30, interesting...think I'm like level 20 at the end.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Ekaros on Sat, 23 October 2010, 06:55:53
F3 was originaly closed ended too, just DLCs made it open... F2 got it right...
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: audioave10 on Sat, 23 October 2010, 13:39:08
Freeplay Mod...

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34811
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 23 October 2010, 13:55:41
Quote from: audioave10;237707
Freeplay Mod...

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34811

Awesome, where's the launcher?  It's the fallout mod manager?  Can't seem to find it?  Is it the same fallout launcher (fomm) from fallout 3?


Oh I see it's part of the normal launcher.  Cool.

It worked! Yes!! awesomeness.  Thanks a bunch!!

Yeah I got level 20 as soon as I got to the casino.  So I was pretty under leveled to take the damn and everything.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: audioave10 on Sat, 23 October 2010, 19:04:22
I'm taking my time so far. Level 9 after 8 hours.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 23 October 2010, 22:17:34
Hey guyz

Get the power up and win the game =)

(http://i.somethingawful.com/cliff/ihateyou/page28-02.jpg)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Sun, 24 October 2010, 06:17:34
Up to level 28.  pretty interesting playing after taking the dam.  Lots of stuff doesn't fit, and some stuff is broken, but some quests are still good.  Going through all the vaults right now.  Got one left.  Pretty cool. lol
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: quadibloc on Sun, 24 October 2010, 10:22:35
I was just astonished that one of the first results I found on YouTube with the complete lyrics for "Anything Goes" was connected with Fallout 3:

Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Sun, 24 October 2010, 12:59:03
Quote from: quadibloc;237948
I was just astonished that one of the first results I found on YouTube with the complete lyrics for "Anything Goes" was connected with Fallout 3:



Fallout 3 had a great soundtrack.  Really amazing music selection.  So far with New Vegas, not really impressed.  It seems like there 2 or 3 songs.   They could have done a lot better.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Sun, 24 October 2010, 18:04:27
Welp, I capped.  Think I saw everything that's interesting, and done everything worth doing, that isn't broken.  There's a few things that are broken, like a doctor won't respond to me that looks like he had a few quests.  Not sure what's wrong with that.    The only thing is maybe what the remnants are... I found a remnant power armor helmet in a mine that's better than my BOS one...


 I wonder if there's a full set of remnant power armor around.   Also anyone find any tesla or better than the bos power armor?  I know there was supposed to be Tesla armor, but it was less than the bos armor.  I suppose there are a couple things I haven't found yet....

Ah doc henry is related to the enclave remnant quest, and I guess that has to do with help at the dam, which is why he's probably broken....

Interesting, I guess that's the other way to get power armor training as well, and probably better than the bos way cause it probably doesn't make an enemy out of like everyone to do it.

Ah hah.


Interesting it doesn't look like it's any better than the brotherhood power armor.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Sun, 24 October 2010, 20:42:38
Quote from: ripster;238162
There's one last thing you can do.
Show Image
(http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/new_coin_slot_sticker3.jpg)


Arcade games are for suckers.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Sun, 24 October 2010, 20:52:26
I had that exact same game on my apple.  Doubt I paid for it either.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Sun, 24 October 2010, 22:41:46
Got the enclave armor.  It actually wasn't that tough.  You need to take out about 8 deathclaws close up, then you can snipe the rest(the mothers and big group of them) from a good sniping position.  You need about 10 grand to get it repaired to full, and then it looks like it's about 5 points better than the bos armor.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Tue, 26 October 2010, 09:28:10
Hm,

at first I circumvented this thread, scared to find spoilers. I am no doubt what one might call a Fallout afficionado. I played the first game shortly after it was released at the tender age of 15 I believe. Played it 3 times since. Fallout 2 was worse, bought on release day, played it 5 times since. I really, genuinely loved those games and they will always be among my favorites. I followed the original Fallout 3 development (Van Buren Project) tirelessly and when no more news came and it was apparent that it wouldn't be completed, I waited patiently and hoped that someday they would make a sequel. Nearly 10 years later they made Fallout 3, I was so damn happy. It didn't disappoint too. It was NOT as good as 1 and 2, it lacked a lot of important elements but it was still great, it was still Fallout (at least kinda ;) ). New Vegas under Obsidian? Old Interplay staff (or parts thereof)? Awesome! One of 2 games I pre-ordered in my life (the other being Starcraft 2).

That being said, I read the thread real quick, watching out for spoilers, because my CE still hasn't arrived and I read a lot about bugs before so I was thinking about waiting to play it until it's patched (which I probably won't end up doing anyway...).
And then I read this priacy discussion and boy oh boy am I disappointed in my fellow geekhackers.

Food for thought:

(http://acquiescetomusic.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/atm-piratebaycartoon.gif?w=500&h=817)

One more clarification: Software "piracy" is neither stealing nore piracy. It is particularly NOT stealing. Stealing per definition as one here previously pointed out, means that the owner who you stole from is no longer in position of the original. That's simply not the case FACT.

Also, I strongly encourage all German speakers to read the book "No Copy" which is about the infancy of software development, hacking and the general psyche and mindset of "hackers" "crackers" and all those individuals that software developers think they should hate while they are actually your ancestors, those who paved the way for you and those who you should learn from and admire (imho).
Unfortunately the book does not seem available in English. However it can be read FOR FREE in its entirety. What idiots right? I mean they have basically worked for nothing and just think that people will still buy their book if they think it's good? MORONS /irony off
link to no copy (http://www.no-copy.org/)

I could go on and on forever but let me just boil it down real quick and let me see how you disagree with this:

If someone cannot afford culture (music, movies, games) and the means to improve ones intellect (software, books)/easing ones workload, while there are ways to give it to him/her at virtually NO ADDITIONAL COST WHATSOEVER, then it would be a travesty to withhold these means of self improvement and fulfillment from a fellow human being.

On the other hand:
If one can afford to pay for same products, which of course someone has to put his/her time in to produce, without putting oneself at a considerable economic disadvantage, then it would be a travesty as well, not to do so.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: zefrer on Tue, 26 October 2010, 09:42:07
Cartmenez: I once got into an argument (yeah yeah, i know) with some guy that insisted on calling it 'stealing' even after numerous links and extracts from actual legislation describing both theft/stealing and copyright infridgement.

Some people don't get it. Some people get paid money to spread bull**** on the intartubes. The rest of the world moves on, just like it did before when home taping killed music and VHS killed cinema and CD copying killed music yet again and so on. Outdated business models are doomed to fail, it's only a matter of time.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Tue, 26 October 2010, 09:50:12
Quote from: ripster;238880
I believe in free porn.  That is ethically OK.

Warez a new SW release on a forum filled with programmers and then brag about it?   Seems stupid.


No argument there.

/Edit

Yes that includes the last statement :drum:
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Tue, 26 October 2010, 09:51:24
Quote from: zefrer;238882
Cartmenez: I once got into an argument (yeah yeah, i know) with some guy that insisted on calling it 'stealing' even after numerous links and extracts from actual legislation describing both theft/stealing and copyright infridgement.

Some people don't get it. Some people get paid money to spread bull**** on the intartubes. The rest of the world moves on, just like it did before when home taping killed music and VHS killed cinema and CD copying killed music yet again and so on. Outdated business models are doomed to fail, it's only a matter of time.


I can't stop, I won't stop, I don't eeeeeeeven know how to stop!


Or in my avatar's words:
Hooooow do I reeeeeach these kiiiiiiiiidz ?!?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 26 October 2010, 10:01:12
On the subject of connections between video games and music of a bygone era, here is...


an example of a retro format conversion that may be of some interest.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: zefrer on Tue, 26 October 2010, 10:11:16
Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;238886

Or in my avatar's words:
Hooooow do I reeeeeach these kiiiiiiiiidz ?!?


'I lol'ed' :D
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 26 October 2010, 10:35:02
Quote from: ripster;238887
This new model of doing business is why Free Linux will DOMINATE IN 2011!

Wikipedia Sep 2010 Numbers
Show Image
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Operating_system_usage_share.svg/600px-Operating_system_usage_share.svg.png)

Yeah xp's going to dominate for a long time cause it's the most solid os with the most programs compatible and easy to use on it.  Having said that, I used Linux with DMW to get the firmware for my keyboard operational and was pretty impressed by the improvements in it since I tried it a year or two ago.  He was able to explain and teach me some basics of it that I had never had before.  If I was a better programmer and could add to and improve/customize a lot of the programs on it, like Gimp, it would be my main os, simply because I have the ability to rewrite what I want, and it is free and open.

If someone could steer Gimp, or a painting program on Linux to be more like Sai or 4paint, then it'd definitely have a cause to be on one of my main systems.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 26 October 2010, 11:10:58
Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;238876

One more clarification: Software "piracy" is neither stealing nore piracy. It is particularly NOT stealing. Stealing per definition as one here previously pointed out, means that the owner who you stole from is no longer in position of the original. That's simply not the case FACT.


Im pretty sure I pointed out earlier, but you are going on a literal definition of an act, the boundaries of which were laid out long before theft of Intellectual Property, loss of income/loss of potential sales etc were even fathomable.

I am PROBABLY one of the biggest supporters of truely free software on this forum, I have been using linux ALMOST exclusively, save for photography work, for OVER 10 years. As I generally despise Windows, this lead me into the Mac world for a time. Even then, my exasperation at the closed nature of the software lead me to finally shun the industry standard (photoshop etc). Now, thanks to a lot of hard-working folks, I can actually use a colorimeter under linux, and I can manage and edit my images with some top level, FREE software.

What is my point? Well, if you want to make a statement, you can:

1- take something that is supposed to cost money (argue all you want the legality of that choice) and give nothing back.

 OR

2 - you can support those who are putting this stuff out there for free, LEGITIMATELY.

I don't think the right way to fight for "freedom of information" is to just take what you want (I actually think it is more about GIVING or sharing). Believe it or not, you have given the makers of free software something when you chose THEIR product over a proprietary competitor.

By taking the non-free product, you are actually strengthening their numbers, which only helps them keep their product closed.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: zefrer on Tue, 26 October 2010, 12:14:32
Ripster: You assume 'many people using something' = 'must be good'.

A ridiculous assumption by any stretch of the imagination. Linux will probably never be mainstream on the desktop and that's ok.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 26 October 2010, 13:21:46
Quote from: zefrer;238964
Ripster: You assume 'many people using something' = 'must be good'.

A ridiculous assumption by any stretch of the imagination. Linux will probably never be mainstream on the desktop and that's ok.


Indeed ridiculous, but what else drives the avg consumer to purchase? Hence MY argument against stealing mainstream proprietary software, it only encourages the development of more of the same.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: zefrer on Tue, 26 October 2010, 14:15:08
Quote from: instantkamera;239015
Indeed ridiculous, but what else drives the avg consumer to purchase? Hence MY argument against stealing mainstream proprietary software, it only encourages the development of more of the same.


An argument I agree with.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Ekaros on Tue, 26 October 2010, 18:23:52
Quote from: ripster;238887
This new model of doing business is why Free Linux will DOMINATE IN 2011!

Wikipedia Sep 2010 Numbers
Show Image
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Operating_system_usage_share.svg/600px-Operating_system_usage_share.svg.png)


OK, how come Vista is that huge?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 26 October 2010, 20:48:50
Quote from: Ekaros;239143
OK, how come Vista is that huge?

Lot of systems out there that can't be easily changed.  I just bought an oqo 02, that would be a devil of a time to upgrade to windows 7.  It's working and it's actually not really that bad once all the service packs are installed and the user account control is disabled.  It's the only system I own though that's still got vista running on it and not xp or 7.  1 of like 10-15 systems.  Vista coincided with the big leap of c2d's and systems like the oqo 02. Also systems like my c-141xl/tx2500z started out originally with vista and most people don't know how or don't want to upgrade or downgrade them like  I have.  Most systems like that are reaching the middle age of their lifespan right now.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: zefrer on Tue, 26 October 2010, 21:25:32
Mostly, like chimera said, it just came pre-installed on every new machine and most people can't be bothered/don't know how to change it. How do you think Vista "sold" so well even though it was considered a failure by microsoft themselves.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 26 October 2010, 22:22:30
I just saw a news item to the effect that the porn industry was having a big meeting to figure out how to get people to pay for porn again and save the industry:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/10/porn-pros-hope-to-squelch-online-piracy-by-2012.ars

So this is a very topical subject.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 26 October 2010, 22:35:59
That will never ever happen. There's too much amateur porn out there that's more popular than pro porn anyway.  Not to mention all the foreign stuff. lol
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 26 October 2010, 23:40:49
^ connoisseur

XD
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: quadibloc on Wed, 27 October 2010, 02:05:10
I'm surprised that no one commented on the video of "Still Alive" from Portal being played on a player piano.


Here is a video of piano roll production at QRS, which still made piano rolls until very recently. In the video, you will briefly see an Apple computer being used in piano roll production.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Wed, 27 October 2010, 06:02:40
Quote from: instantkamera;238935
Im pretty sure I pointed out earlier, but you are going on a literal definition of an act, the boundaries of which were laid out long before theft of Intellectual Property, loss of income/loss of potential sales etc were even fathomable.

I am PROBABLY one of the biggest supporters of truely free software on this forum, I have been using linux ALMOST exclusively, save for photography work, for OVER 10 years. As I generally despise Windows, this lead me into the Mac world for a time. Even then, my exasperation at the closed nature of the software lead me to finally shun the industry standard (photoshop etc). Now, thanks to a lot of hard-working folks, I can actually use a colorimeter under linux, and I can manage and edit my images with some top level, FREE software.

What is my point? Well, if you want to make a statement, you can:

1- take something that is supposed to cost money (argue all you want the legality of that choice) and give nothing back.

 OR

2 - you can support those who are putting this stuff out there for free, LEGITIMATELY.

I don't think the right way to fight for "freedom of information" is to just take what you want (I actually think it is more about GIVING or sharing). Believe it or not, you have given the makers of free software something when you chose THEIR product over a proprietary competitor.

By taking the non-free product, you are actually strengthening their numbers, which only helps them keep their product closed.



Puh-leaaaase

Those numbers that "the man" hands out to show how "piracy" is killing the industry because of lost potential sales are plain bull****. Of course people that say the industry doesn't loose any potential customers are just as full of ****.

But the numbers "the man" throws around are waaaay out of proportion. In their view, everyone who bought photoshop this year is a potential customer for the new photoshop next year, even though most people that buy photoshop this year won't buy it again for the next 5 years or so. People that own a PC from 1988 are potential customers for Windows 7, etc. .

And it doesn't matter when the definition of stealing was layed out. I argue that theft of intellectual property is impossible and any reasonable human being must agree with that.
I cannot steal your idea because you will always have it. I can use or even abuse ur idea, I can use it to my advantage in a way that you cannot use it to your own advantage (take the idea of a product and put it on the market before you can, which is common business practice by the way but hey, the businesses do that, that's ok of course). But intellectual property, just as the contents of software can never be "owned" once they are presented to the public.

I "own" my ideas about religion, my own explanation of the universe. If I write a book about it, I cannot own it any more. I own the rights to these books but if someone takes the ideas I wrote down in that book, combines them with their own ideas and writes another book, I can't argue with that person that he doesn't have the right to use my ideas from my book to write down his own ideas about religion and his explenation of the universe. I can particularly not accuse that person of stealing my intellectual property when he uses his book (that includes some/all of my ideas) to found a religion that makes him the richest person in the world.

I can't step in and say "you can't use my ideas to shape your own views of religion and the universe and then share your altered ideas/views with others. Those basic ideas on which you based your own ideas belong to me!".
If I did that I'd be a terrible douchebag hindering the evolution of mankind.

You say that if I take something that costs money and don't give anything back that's just wrong.

But it doesn't cost the content industry jack **** if I copy their software for myself. And the fact is that while I was a student it is extremely likely that all the music, all the movies, series and software I copied, I wouldn't have bought otherwise. I wouldn't have been neither willing nor able to purchase all those cultural goodies of entertainment. I wouldn't have been able to broaden my horizon, wouldn't have been able to watch basketball, learn about black culture, listen to so many different types of music the world has to offer (as opposed to what the mainstream feeds me via radio and mtv) etc. etc. .

So I would have not been able to become the individual I am today, my horizon would have been limited severely. And that's just not right, considering they lost no money due to me copying.


I tell you what though, you have a point that there is actually free open source software there and that if you don't want to pay, you should use it, thus strengthening the open source programers instead of playing into the arms of the content industry. You are right on that my man.
I did try open office recently, when my order of Office 2010 was still being shipped. Didn't like it, it was just a hastle to get used to and didn't do stuff the way I wanted it to.
Linux I never used because I game a lot and grew up with windows. Now there is Wine out there and I have a quad core, running Linux and giving it a go is high on my to do list.
Generally I always try to find free software first, before I copy or buy anything. Because as u said there is lots of great free software out there. Bit it isn't always possible. And as I said before: If someone wants photoshop because he/she is striving to become a concept artist for example but cannot really afford the steep price tag for it, then why should that person have to pay for it or feel bad for not doing so when photoshop is available for free without costing the industry anything????? That makes absolutely no sense.

The only argument "the man" has is that they loose the sale of 1 unit of photoshop. But that student would not even have been able to buy it, so how can it be a lost sale??? Even if the student would have been able to buy photoshop, he certainly wouldn't have been able to buy say Corel Draw as well and compare the two to find out which one is better. Is that desirable?

This way the student can get both programs without any cost to the industry and highly likely without any lost potential sale either. Furthermore, I am very, very, very sure that studies would show this:
If someone copies a software at early age because he can't afford it but wants/needs it, the chances are high that once that person reaches adulthood and earns enough money to purchase the sofware, he will do so.

Why? Because purchased software is free of viruses, you have support for it and peace of mind. Those are some core strengths that actually purchased products have over copied/downloaded software.
But the content industry is just too ignorant, stupid, fat, lazy and slow to make use of those strengths properly. The ridiculous fails of the music and movie industry in the past to utilize the internet have proven that.
They claw themselves to their outdated business models and disrespect, even harm their paying customers while doing so. It is bound to fail. As the inventor of napster said in the movie "The social network": "Would you want to start/own/buy a record label these days?"  ............

To conclude, more food for thought:
The usenet is probably something many people here are familiar with. U actually have to PAY for usenet access. In a way you thus PAY for what is offered on the usenet servers, ready for you to download. We all know what you find in the alt.binaries newsgroups besides porn. So why isn't the content industry down on the asses of the usenet providers??????? Isn't paying for "pirated" material even worse than getting free access to it? That's even defined by the law!!!! Selling "pirated" material is definitely illegal, everywhere and carries heavy punishments. Only the free sharing of "pirated" material is in that ominous grey zone.

But have you ever heard of the content industry complaining about the usenet? No? I wonder why that is ...


@ripster
stealing is baaaaaaaad m'kaaay?
(http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/mackey.png)

Tell me I am not the only one who always imagines Mr. Mackey ones someone stretches the word "baaaaaad" :)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Ekaros on Wed, 27 October 2010, 06:15:53
I have always wondered about this:
I draw a picture. Someone takes a photo of it. Maybe they share it to a few people or publish on internet... So can I sue, them and demand the original price of each copy, may it  be a few ks...

Stealing, digital material is bit far fetched... Also, I would and I think most people would copy a car if they could, atleast I would enjoy having new Ferrari for under 1k...
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Wed, 27 October 2010, 06:29:10
Quote from: Ekaros;239292
Also, I would and I think most people would copy a car if they could, atleast I would enjoy having new Ferrari for under 1k...


You could. There are these "do it yourself" construction kits out there. Had a bit of a hiatus during the 80ies and 90ies if I am not mistaken. However the finished product would never be even close to the real deal. You need a lot of know how during the assembly and the parts are never as good either. So that's why that died out. But it's possible.

But the person who had the idea to make a motorized vehicle with 4 wheels and a passenger cabine can't go around and tell anyone that used this idea to make a car, however designed, to sue them for theft of intellectual property...
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Wed, 27 October 2010, 08:06:36
Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;239290
Puh-leaaaase

Those numbers that "the man" hands out to show how "piracy" is killing the industry because of lost potential sales are plain bull****. Of course people that say the industry doesn't loose any potential customers are just as full of ****.

But the numbers "the man" throws around are waaaay out of proportion. In their view, everyone who bought photoshop this year is a potential customer for the new photoshop next year, even though most people that buy photoshop this year won't buy it again for the next 5 years or so. People that own a PC from 1988 are potential customers for Windows 7, etc. .

And it doesn't matter when the definition of stealing was layed out. I argue that theft of intellectual property is impossible and any reasonable human being must agree with that.
I cannot steal your idea because you will always have it. I can use or even abuse ur idea, I can use it to my advantage in a way that you cannot use it to your own advantage (take the idea of a product and put it on the market before you can, which is common business practice by the way but hey, the businesses do that, that's ok of course). But intellectual property, just as the contents of software can never be "owned" once they are presented to the public.

I "own" my ideas about religion, my own explanation of the universe. If I write a book about it, I cannot own it any more. I own the rights to these books but if someone takes the ideas I wrote down in that book, combines them with their own ideas and writes another book, I can't argue with that person that he doesn't have the right to use my ideas from my book to write down his own ideas about religion and his explenation of the universe. I can particularly not accuse that person of stealing my intellectual property when he uses his book (that includes some/all of my ideas) to found a religion that makes him the richest person in the world.

I can't step in and say "you can't use my ideas to shape your own views of religion and the universe and then share your altered ideas/views with others. Those basic ideas on which you based your own ideas belong to me!".
If I did that I'd be a terrible douchebag hindering the evolution of mankind.

You say that if I take something that costs money and don't give anything back that's just wrong.

But it doesn't cost the content industry jack **** if I copy their software for myself. And the fact is that while I was a student it is extremely likely that all the music, all the movies, series and software I copied, I wouldn't have bought otherwise. I wouldn't have been neither willing nor able to purchase all those cultural goodies of entertainment. I wouldn't have been able to broaden my horizon, wouldn't have been able to watch basketball, learn about black culture, listen to so many different types of music the world has to offer (as opposed to what the mainstream feeds me via radio and mtv) etc. etc. .

So I would have not been able to become the individual I am today, my horizon would have been limited severely. And that's just not right, considering they lost no money due to me copying.


I tell you what though, you have a point that there is actually free open source software there and that if you don't want to pay, you should use it, thus strengthening the open source programers instead of playing into the arms of the content industry. You are right on that my man.
I did try open office recently, when my order of Office 2010 was still being shipped. Didn't like it, it was just a hastle to get used to and didn't do stuff the way I wanted it to.
Linux I never used because I game a lot and grew up with windows. Now there is Wine out there and I have a quad core, running Linux and giving it a go is high on my to do list.
Generally I always try to find free software first, before I copy or buy anything. Because as u said there is lots of great free software out there. Bit it isn't always possible. And as I said before: If someone wants photoshop because he/she is striving to become a concept artist for example but cannot really afford the steep price tag for it, then why should that person have to pay for it or feel bad for not doing so when photoshop is available for free without costing the industry anything????? That makes absolutely no sense.

The only argument "the man" has is that they loose the sale of 1 unit of photoshop. But that student would not even have been able to buy it, so how can it be a lost sale??? Even if the student would have been able to buy photoshop, he certainly wouldn't have been able to buy say Corel Draw as well and compare the two to find out which one is better. Is that desirable?

This way the student can get both programs without any cost to the industry and highly likely without any lost potential sale either. Furthermore, I am very, very, very sure that studies would show this:
If someone copies a software at early age because he can't afford it but wants/needs it, the chances are high that once that person reaches adulthood and earns enough money to purchase the sofware, he will do so.

Why? Because purchased software is free of viruses, you have support for it and peace of mind. Those are some core strengths that actually purchased products have over copied/downloaded software.
But the content industry is just too ignorant, stupid, fat, lazy and slow to make use of those strengths properly. The ridiculous fails of the music and movie industry in the past to utilize the internet have proven that.
They claw themselves to their outdated business models and disrespect, even harm their paying customers while doing so. It is bound to fail. As the inventor of napster said in the movie "The social network": "Would you want to start/own/buy a record label these days?"  ............

To conclude, more food for thought:
The usenet is probably something many people here are familiar with. U actually have to PAY for usenet access. In a way you thus PAY for what is offered on the usenet servers, ready for you to download. We all know what you find in the alt.binaries newsgroups besides porn. So why isn't the content industry down on the asses of the usenet providers??????? Isn't paying for "pirated" material even worse than getting free access to it? That's even defined by the law!!!! Selling "pirated" material is definitely illegal, everywhere and carries heavy punishments. Only the free sharing of "pirated" material is in that ominous grey zone.

But have you ever heard of the content industry complaining about the usenet? No? I wonder why that is ...


@ripster
stealing is baaaaaaaad m'kaaay?
Show Image
(http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/mackey.png)


Tell me I am not the only one who always imagines Mr. Mackey ones someone stretches the word "baaaaaad" :)


ok.


I actually read it all, so no tl;dr, I just don't care. How you feel about "IP"/copyrights/patents/etc means nothing to the rest of the world (for better or worse). We (people in general, not you and I) simply have not come to a final agreement on this issue.
So instead of siding with the people who want the money, or the people who want the product, I chose the other option. I use free **** because it's free (in this case, that's HASSLE free).
Nothing in your rant disproves my theory that using software without paying is just fodder for the big companies. They can accuse you of stealing on the one hand while simultaneously benefiting from the increased user-base. Too much arguing, who needs it?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 27 October 2010, 08:20:15
I have given money to a few Android developers and ShrewSoft for their VPN client.  Cisco compatibility without the bloat.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:13:25
Quote from: ripster;239958
Future of Gaming is..... low quality crap.

Sayeth Crysis  (http://kotaku.com/5674608/the-future-of-pc-gaming-according-to-the-creator-of-crysis)
Show Image
(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/2010/10/custom_1288190661364_cevat_yerli.jpg)


I suspected as such.  Boy, was THAT pc game ever a disappointment.  That  WAS the beginning of the end of the PC business.

However Blizzard disagrees (http://boards.ign.com/pc_general_board/b5027/197089544/p1/?16) (WHAT A SURPRISE!!!)

BEST quote in thread...



MEANWHILE IN AMERICA....
Show Image
(http://clementco.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/tumblr_lazkspHOy41qzpwi0o1_400.jpg)


Free SW kills (don't click if easily disturbed (http://clementco.com/blog/index.php/2010/10/mother-kills-baby-due-to-interrupted-farmville-session/)).


HOLY

****ING

****

I am absolutely terrified by the world we live in.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: instantkamera on Thu, 28 October 2010, 17:41:46
it's not really news to me, Im just saying. The world is a whole bunch of wtf.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 28 October 2010, 18:13:51
Quote from: ripster;239976
On a lighter note:  IceT's tweet review of Fallout: Las Vegas. (http://twitter.com/FINALLEVEL/status/28896055927)


Sounds like IceT needs a new computer.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 28 October 2010, 18:16:43
Quote from: instantkamera;239960
HOLY

****ING

****

I am absolutely terrified by the world we live in.


This happened a few years ago.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/208369/boy-kills-mother-shoots-father-after-taking-away-halo-3/ (http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/208369/boy-kills-mother-shoots-father-after-taking-away-halo-3/)

No big deal.  Don't take away or interrupt people playing games.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 28 October 2010, 18:21:25
Quote from: ripster;239329
I hear Chimera15 steals Girl Scout cookies from the table when they are not looking.

I get my girl scout cookies from China.

http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2010/01/25/girl-scouts-get-squeezed-cookies-are-no-savior/49693/ (http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2010/01/25/girl-scouts-get-squeezed-cookies-are-no-savior/49693/)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 28 October 2010, 18:35:47
Quote from: ripster;239958
Future of Gaming is..... low quality crap.

Sayeth Crysis  (http://kotaku.com/5674608/the-future-of-pc-gaming-according-to-the-creator-of-crysis)
Show Image
(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/2010/10/custom_1288190661364_cevat_yerli.jpg)


I suspected as such.  Boy, was THAT pc game ever a disappointment.  That  WAS the beginning of the end of the PC business.

However Blizzard disagrees (http://boards.ign.com/pc_general_board/b5027/197089544/p1/?16) (WHAT A SURPRISE!!!)

BEST quote in thread...



MEANWHILE IN AMERICA....
Show Image
(http://clementco.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/tumblr_lazkspHOy41qzpwi0o1_400.jpg)


Free SW kills (don't click if easily disturbed (http://clementco.com/blog/index.php/2010/10/mother-kills-baby-due-to-interrupted-farmville-session/)).


You didn't get the point of the article.  He was saying that free 2 play is the future of pc gaming, and that the quality will increase and come up to the level of stand alones, as the market shifts.

You look at War Rock and where it started, and where it is now, as well as the new MKZ, also on gamersfirst free 2 play network, and you'll start to get a clue maybe.  War Rock is a really good example.  It started in 2006, and has continuously upgraded per seasons as technology has improved, and it has the cashflow to do so.  That's something not possible in a stand alone game.  War Rock keeps you continuously coming back with special events and upgrades.  They just launched their own server network as well.


http://www.gamersfirst.com/mkz/ (http://www.gamersfirst.com/mkz/)

Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 28 October 2010, 18:50:44
Quote from: ripster;239986
Nope, the future is Farmville.

Excuse me, I have to go shake a baby.

Probably farmville will be 3d eventually. lol  

Another great thing about free 2 play games like War Rock is that it never gets completely boring, and you never reach an end to the game like with Fallout, I was done with it in 4 days.  I don't feel like playing it again until something new happens which may not be for months or never.  That's not worth $50 to me.

Warrock if I choose to drop $50 on, I'd have special guns, enhancers, and weapons for at least a month, longer if I spread the $50 out that I know I could use to enhance my character that will be there likely years in the future.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 28 October 2010, 21:44:24
Quote from: ripster;239986
Excuse me, I have to go punch a baby koala.
Apparently, it makes them cry - and their tears taste like caramel, only better. But I've read an article about scientists analyzing their tears, so perhaps this will soon become available as a synthetic flavor.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 28 October 2010, 21:46:36
Quote from: ripster;239958
Free SW kills
I'm glad that the American legal system takes the deaths of infants seriously. Of course, though, she is not really a danger to the general public, and, if rehabilitated, would keep some man happy, thus preventing him from becoming a dangerous criminal.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Fri, 29 October 2010, 04:54:21
Quote from: chimera15;239982
I get my girl scout cookies from China.

http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2010/01/25/girl-scouts-get-squeezed-cookies-are-no-savior/49693/ (http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2010/01/25/girl-scouts-get-squeezed-cookies-are-no-savior/49693/)


You should watch "The Boondocks" Season 3 Epsiode 7 "The Fundraiser"

"They call me the Fundraiser"
"And why is that?"
"Because I raise funds *****, what do you think?"

The whole episode is about the girlscout cooky business and kind of turns into a scarface type format. Pretty awesome epsiode, one of my favorite shows to watch :)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 29 October 2010, 06:06:23
Ugh, it annoys me to no end when people go on about how Farmville and bull like that is 'the future of PC gaming!!!11one!elevenandone!'

Where there is demand, there is a market. Mechanical keyboards anyone?

When we no longer see any AAA titles for the PC then.. :flypig:
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Fri, 29 October 2010, 08:02:31
Well I do think ripster has a point in that. But I don't think it is the permanent future. I am a bliever of the "wave cycle" theory essentially saying that stuff in life comes in waves and often repeats in slightly different forms.

The current avalanche of casual games and the casualisation of just about any main title games does speak for a development towards farmville type games in the near future. I can very well imagine that the trend will continue and major games will become more and more casualized until they basically all end up being farmville-esque games.

But as a result there will be a vacuum because people who are searching for innovative and challenging game designes, for great stories and twists, for "deep ****" in general, will not die out all of a sudden. Just the majority of gamers will probably soon be n00bs who want casual and that's what they get. Once the market is saturated with farmville-clones, the vacuum will be filled again though by companies recognizing the demand of gamers that want "deep ****".

At that point in time my hope is that a fair bunch of the casual n00bs will have tasted the joy of gaming enough in order to be interested in "deep ****" as well thus resulting in a renaissance of games like Baldur's Gate, the original Starcraft, the original Counter Strike, etc. ...
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Fri, 29 October 2010, 11:39:51
It will start in the middle east

(http://steelturman.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/mid_east.JPG)
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 29 October 2010, 12:46:41
Quote from: chimera15;239979
This happened a few years ago.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/208369/boy-kills-mother-shoots-father-after-taking-away-halo-3/ (http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/208369/boy-kills-mother-shoots-father-after-taking-away-halo-3/)

No big deal.  Don't take away or interrupt people playing games.


Anyone read that article? father said Halo 3 too sexually explicit? I'm sorry gonna have to go +1 on the kid here, he was just probably trying to thin out the idiots for us!

Anyway this kind of "farmville is evil" reaction always reminds me of this story
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Shawn_Woolley

i included the graphic and pun like wiki instead since that was the first hit on youtube.

If you read the pun like article you can also find out that the mom now runs a mmo halfway house or something for ppl addicted to the evil mmo's and run's a website olga or something. Mainly it's mmo aa basically, take all the stuff from AA that references alcohol replay with mmo, it's a nutty forum. It's actually moderated more heavily than OCN, i actually tried to post there saying something like
"it's not the game's fault it's your own, stop being addicted and stop cybering cuz that's why all of you are addicted, the cybering, i know cuz while i never cyber'ed i was in charge of a few hundred ppl and a lot of them are messed up cuz they are addicted to the cyber, I never cared as long as the cybering didn't affect their gameplay"
It was much longer than that, giving an insider perspective really because when i read these posts these addicted mmo ppl just screamed of weak willed individuals who just got addicted to a few aspects of what a MMO can offer.

disclaimer: again i played mmo's eq1 and eq2 for a few years off and on, i never cybered, never really chatted with ppl, and only met one other couple in real life cuz it was convienient, not in that way! but we were (my fiancee and I) moving to a new town and they offered to show us around since they lived right around there. There's so many seedy stories just from the ppl I managed(i'm trying not to use mmo terms for the ppl who don't know in this case i would use guild, since i was the raid leader) it's pretty flabbergasting.

And it's not the game's fault, just ppl cannot control themselves, pretty much just like the theory, a drug dealer doesn't need to advertise, ppl will find him, he'll never say "damn i got too much coke inventory how am i going to get rid of it" coke sells itself to the addicted.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Mon, 01 November 2010, 08:42:39
To get back on the New Vegas topic:

My collector's edition arrived this weekend and I spend sunday playing a couple of hours.

First on the collector's edition:
The artbook/comic novel is kind of useless to me but I knew that from the start. I will probably keep it in "mint condition" and hope I can sell it some time ;)

The poker chips:
Probably the nicest give in of the CE. Look kewl, are not cheap plastic but have some weight. Might serve as nice "card protectors" in real poker games. The platin lucky 38 chip I don't get, just looks a bit lame ^^

The card game:
Bull****. 1st the backside of the cards are not uniform but differ, there is one type of "back" for each casino. This makes the cards useless for playing as someone can always tell what kind of cards you hold in your hands from the backside of the card. Who came up with this idiotic idea??? 2nd I was expecting cool PipBoy images and what do I get? Some "artsy" illustrations of all the characters ingame. Gnaaaaaa. I was so looking forward to the card game deck because I was looking for a good "non standard" card game to play poker. The normal cards just got way too boring for me. Bethesda u suck.

The making off DVD:
Don't know, didn't check it out yet but wouldn't be surprised to find out it's a collection of videos that you already saw in all types of game magazines i.e. on their websites...


Now to the Game:

I like it. I have to say that I got into it much slower than Fallout 3 where the "leaving the vault" scene as in Fallout 1 immediately created that great Fallout-atmosphere (which in Fallout 3 was lost and picked up again several times later in the game). Here it is more like Fallout 2 where u find into the game and its atmosphere more slowly.

I like however SPOILERS AHEAD

how they guide you through the game in the beginning. How Goodsprings is basically the "newbie region" and once you leave it **** starts cookin. I also like the faction system and the faction clothes. I like how I accidently wore NCR clothing when I got to NCRCF, shot the door guard, then realized I could probably converse with these fools if I didn't wear NCR clothes, put on the poweder ganger suit and went on inside talking to some folks. They let me through, nothing bugged out even though I probably would have had to talk to the doorguard hadn't I killed him. They let me walk around freely but the administration building and another one that are of more importance to the gang were still off limits and I got attacked. That's alright imo.

I liked how I met with the NCR and how Cesar's Legion are introduced shortly after. So far everything seems to fit in together well and I like how I am guided through the game in a way that allows for a presentation as meant by the author while still giving me the freedom to wander off my own way. If I wanted I could have headed straight to Vegas of course, which is also cool and I might do next playthrough (if there will be one).

From story and concept it seems like a proper Fallout and Obisidian game to me so far.


What I didn't like:
I can't say the game is exactly bugged but I can see that it is poorly coded.
The first time I started and played it everything went very well. No bugs, no freezes, no fps dips and loading problems. An all around smooth experience. However when I did the mission SPOILER AHEAD
where I help that guy who is holed up in the gas station to fight the powder gangers and they arrived in goodsprings, I had a massive fps dip when they attacked the saloon/store area with the hand full NPCs, me and the 4 or 5 powder gangers. It was unbearable there for a sec. After a few kills and everything was over quickly, it was alright again. Didn't have that fps problem in later situations where I had a bunch of NPCs on screen... even in combat.


I quit the game and returned an hour later. When I hit "continue" and loaded my last save, it took FOREVER to get loaded. I thought it froze but it just took extremely long!!! For a whole while it also took extremely long when I entered buildings or loaded savegames. I don't know what  I did but several hours, saves and loads later it worked as smooth as in the beginning.
I still experience occasional fps dips.

My system:
AMD Phenom II x4 955BE
4 GB DDR3 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 5870
Win7 64bit
SSD (but not used for fallout)

So now that I experienced it, I assume IceT doesn't need a new PC, bethesda and obsidian just need better coding.

I find it quite unbelievable that they coded so poorly. I am sure that if I played it on my xbox everything would be running smooth beginning to end which is an athrocity considering what a schweet system I run now. And I don't wanna play it again without the mouse, particularly since the VATS has been somewhat devalued and you just can't aim with a gamepad.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: shortround on Sun, 13 February 2011, 23:41:18
The game is extremely buggy on ps3 as well.  I imagine the xbox doesn't fare any better.  Fallout 3 was the same way.

Does anybody else miss the a3-21 plasma rifle or Fawkes?
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: dracaXL on Mon, 14 February 2011, 20:43:49
Deleted.
Title: Fallout: New Vegas
Post by: xira on Mon, 14 February 2011, 21:42:15
with most publishers on PC using Steamworks now, 0day piracy is a bigger issue on Xbox 360 now.