Normally they strike for no reason other than the fact they haven't had one for a while.
They do enjoy re-enacting their Revolution, the French.
They actually have a reason to be upset this time!
Define destroying their country? They aren't destroying the people or the land. It can't be good for their economy, I'll grant you that, but it isn't unrecoverable.
These type of riots aren't unique to France though. I've heard of similar ones throughout Europe.
yea, their precious retirement age is going to go up by a mere 2 years. Time to destroy the country!!!Hyperbole is not the ally of reasonable discourse.
French rioters...aren't they about the same age as OCN mods?:D
hurr durr durrrrr
then yea they have a right to complain.
This pic reminds me of the best technology the French have ever produced.
My son and I built TWO of them.Show Image(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5102322293_d356ea899e_z.jpg)
or are the french /both/ lazy *and* barbarous?
To demonize it is missing the point - strikes are supposed to cripple the institution they target, as a method of forcing change.One of these things the rioters are doing is burning people's cars. Those cars cost money. Vandalism which targets private individuals, not huge corporations that can just pass the cost along as a tiny markup in their prices, ought to be condemned unreservedly.
in this regard the americans are *far* more /civilized/ than the french, when it comes to politics.
In a word, yes. Guillotines require very little manual work.
whose debating about which country is more civilized? i mean one country doesn't make their women shave their armpits... pretty barbaric!
The money for pensions doesn't come from nowhere, it comes from a, by American standards, rather heavy taxation .
What is pissing people off is the fact that WE have to pay for the criminal banksters wrongdoings and it's bleeding our societies to death .
I dislike the way some of you are taking cheap shots at the French,
I suggest somebody stops this BS now....
Unless you want to see me taking cheap shots at America and Lord knows that ain't difficult
after 8 years with that ****ing moron you "elected" ... TWICE !!
Show Image(http://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/Rodney_King_Riot__1992.jpg)
1992. 700 businesses burned in LA.
Sure, there's been riots pretty much everywhere. But there's something about the structure of French society that's bred a large number of people ready and willing to protest (which is fair enough), and also quite a number that will take any opportunity to riot. Generally, they aren't the same people! But somehow the former facilitate the latter - 'I wasn't stealing a 50" plasma, I was protesting'.
1992. 700 businesses burned in LA.
I dislike the way some of you are taking cheap shots at the French,
I maintain that the ordinary french person is the most spoiled person in the western world. And has no appreciation of what they do have.
and i find it hilarious that they think they have something on the americans.
You haven't met many Jewish American Princesses in NYC have you?
So the UK is also about to face a series of "austerity measures" (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/cameron-sets-out-to-sell-u-k-austerity-as-public-braces-for-spending-cuts.html), cutbacks in government programs. Lets see how they react. I'll bet the reaction there will be quite different from the french. They'll write irritated letters to the BBC or something. Thats civilization.
lol, do you even know why the LA riots happened? These are completely different situations. I'm not saying riots only happen in france. My point is the REASON for those riots -- its the REASON that is idiotic!
Lets be clear: the LA rioters were not "opposing" legislation that was working its way through congress!!!!!!!!!! This is what the french are doing with their riots. This isnt spontaneous racial tensions, or oppressed poor. These people are rioting over a bill about the national retirement age that has been deliberated and debated to death in the french public sphere and made its way through all the legal channels in the french governmental system.
That is what makes the french riots so asinine. Its not even a spontaneous response. Its basically "political speech', by extremely priveleged people, and its profoundly undemocratic and violent.
Let me be absolutely clear: you completely misunderstood my post. Of course I know why the LA riots happened. Sheesh. Perhaps if you reread my post without assuming I'm a dumbass you'd understand what I was saying!
Rawr, anger.
It's just sad how people are just letting these rioters trespass on and destroy their property. If anybody, rioters or not, was posing a significant threat to me or my property (i. e. setting it on fire, throwing rocks through the windows) I'd shoot them, or at least shoot at them to scare them (I'd have No Trespassing signs posted of course).
ok, i read thru till the third sentence this time,and you are correct, you are not a dumbass. So I retract my earlier snarky comment :) My apologies.
hey, i'm a busy man ;)
LOL. OK. One thing though - I didn't say I wasn't a dumbass :-D
The thing is, of course, in a riot like that, the police are justly concerned that if they use deadly force to protect property, they will escalate the situation.
and a lot of these career rioters (a lot of them being middle class student 'activists', by the way) make provoking the police into a fine art. They *want* some kind of reaction so they can claim victimhood afterwards. And sue the city for several million which the city will settle for 50 grand cuz its cheaper than hiring the lawyers. Its such a crock of ****.
Toronto G20 anyone?
and a lot of these career rioters (a lot of them being middle class student 'activists', by the way) make provoking the police into a fine art. They *want* some kind of reaction so they can claim victimhood afterwards. And sue the city for several million which the city will settle for 50 grand cuz its cheaper than hiring the lawyers. Its such a crock of ****. All in the name of supposed justice and activism. Bull. If they really cared about these issues (or cared about justice) they'd go thru the proper legal channels, not riot in the street.
You should move to Somalia. Sounds like your kind of place...
Specifically raising retirement from 60 to 62.
BFD.
yea meanwhile in the US some folks are actually fighting for the right to work until 70 (up from 65). What a difference between the two cultures.
phew, fell into some kind of rant towards the end there ;)
You can only work till you're 65 in the US? Chimera better get off his ass then (or move to Japan).
You can work later than 65. There's some guy (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/assignment_america/main2243516.shtml) here who's 104 and still working.
French Modern Art Joke time.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8lxXP.jpg)
thats cute. I'd like a poster of that actually. Or to put it on a t-shirt at cafe press.
Government being afraid of the people... Isn't that how democracy is meant to work?
Government being afraid of the people... Isn't that how democracy is meant to work?The government should be afraid of the voters. The voters should fear no man - and thus, neither the voters, nor the government which is their instrument, should fear rioters.
...no.
ok now i'm 3 cartman posts behind... Gotta catch up...
And what exactly do you do if the government doesn't listen?
And what exactly do you do if the government doesn't listen?
****ing hipster.
Civil disobedience? Would that be like... I dunno... blockading oil refineries?
Damn right. Blockading oil refineries is about as stupid as throwing tea off a boat.
At the very least, the Boston Tea Party and the reaction that followed served to rally support for revolutionaries in the thirteen colonies who were eventually successful in their fight for independence.
Damn right. Blockading oil refineries is about as stupid as throwing tea off a boat.
God knows I'd be pissed if someone inflicted grievous harm on my tea.
You're also, as i predicted, making a comparison with politics and methods from 1770s, under a colonial regime (us was not a democracy yet)
RELATIVISM!
*runs, flailing arms*
true, tho i think its only the french who take such pride in it ;) Among western democracies anyway.
I hope Sarkozy brings the hammer down on them. He's promised to do just that. I'll be rooting for him in this instance even if I wouldnt have voted for him.
well i'm french, and the riots are not only about pensions, ti also reveals how people react to sarkozy's politics. people are quite upset by the way he leads france : only help the riches (and all his friends), make the poor pay, have racist ministers and xenophobic policies.
he promised wealth and we only get more poverty, more unemployement, less security
that why people are demonstrating, and btw there are almost no riots. it's mostly medias that like to show hot images and never investigate in real.
it's also a great concern about journalism, in france, but also in many countries : no work, no investigation, just copy some news, show some shocking images and be cool with those who pay ads
*** on a sidenote: In modern Greek, the government is often referred to as the "kratos" which would mean "the one that holds the power", meant is of course the political power. This quite nicely shows how the thinking of the people in modern democracies has changed. In the US, you call your president the most powerful man in the world. In Greece they call the government "the one that holds the power". Both are just wrong.
Neither one holds ****, they have no power. They are only allowed to weild OUR power under OUR close supervision. The only thing lacking these days is that supervision, that many people *looks up* tend to forgive we have the OBLIGATION to carry out.
But both terms damn well describe the reality of modern democracy...
And what exactly do you do if the government doesn't listen?
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII don't wanna work. I just wanna bang on my drum all dayyyyyy.
what is hard work when you can't get jobs ?
Land and raw materials are getting more scarce, while Western nations are admitting lots of immigrants to try and balance their pension funds. So it's easy to find people who need work, but oil and food and rent keep getting more expensive.
Encouraging people to invest does help provide capital, factories and offices to work in, but for the most part, the West is badly overpriced. The people who are poor and thus stuck in countries with dictatorships or threatened by war - they're competitive.
Creating the jobs. But that's always somebody else's responsibility. Right?
It's not Sarkozy's fault that you can't get jobs. France's government has always put too many restrictions on companies that limit growth, competition and opportunities for youth, while creating super cushy environments for older employees. Not to mention how difficult it is to get fired in your country.
seems easy, show me how you do that
seems you are stuck in the 70s, things have changed a lot, not for the best.
...Not to mention how difficult it is to get fired in your country.
You do that with fewer restrictions on capitalism that limit growth.
My comments were regarding the way I've known France to be in the past 10 - 15 years or so, so my points still hold true. If you think differently, then explain how they don't.
This should not be seen as being always bad. I actually like this because in Canada, I have seen so many people get fired because someone did not like them. Or worse, people are attracted to a job only to get fired within a month because the department manager was wrong in his calculations.
that's ideologic bull****bingo, even in countries that have few restrictions, you get a high unemployement. the only thing you get with deregulation is more poverty
well explain me how french laws are so restrictive
You do that with fewer restrictions on capitalism that limit growth.
You are so right keyboardlover.
That worked GRRRRREAT with the Lehman Brothers and basically the entire banking, insurance, rating sector of our western economies.
well explain me how french laws are so restrictive
Back on track
I think we should not forget that the French Revolution spirit has never died and it's almost like it's in the French DNA. The same can be said probably about Americans who in general are willing to take more risks than Canadians, who in turn are usually seen as being more cautious (and sometimes miss good opportunities because of their fear of risks).
Well, at least in the US you can sue for wrongful termination.
Lol "ideologic bull****bingo" is an awesome phrase. I'm not talking about deregulation, I'm talking about less regulation. Like we do in the states. If you don't know anyone who has lived here, you probably don't know what I'm talking about. We have more employment opportunities in general than in the EU (at least in the IT sector). Because our companies aren't so heavily controlled by the government.
I already explained that from a high-level overview. I'm not going to go into all the ins and outs of your laws. You can use Google for that.
I think we should not forget that the French Revolution spirit has never died and it's almost like it's in the French DNA. The same can be said probably about Americans who in general are willing to take more risks than Canadians, who in turn are usually seen as being more cautious (and sometimes miss good opportunities because of their fear of risks).
Going off topic a bit.
Pikapika, could you please tell me if the law is taught in high school (at least the basic stuffs like CDD and CDI) ? I have a BTS and therefore had to study some of the French labour laws.
You are so right keyboardlover.
That worked GRRRRREAT with the Le
Honestly, the French seem more and more sympathetic to me. Rioting or not, at least they recognize that it's time to be pissed off, rather than listening to the banksters and saying "everything was alright, couldn't be avoided, if you play roulette with other people's money you are sometimes bound to hit a loosing streek.
the last things i read about employement in US was not much appealing
Welly's threads never die.
i have sympathy for icelandic people who dared to send to hell the banks by vote, and refused to give back the money lost
@keyboardlover
no it didn't. Most americans just live on credit (leasing all kinds of **** and paying off one credit card with another). That means that the effects will hit you later than us. Still the whole card house started coming down in the US and way more US banks had to close than Europeans.
It's just that you media is even more screwed than hours so you don't know ****. Only the Chinese get less information from their government.
Apparently I know more than you, as none of what you said above makes an ounce of sense. The crisis hit the EU after it hit us. And it hit you harder. I don't pay attention to the media. I live this stuff. I work and am friends with people all over the world, including in Germany (I think that's where you live right?) I don't need information from our media or our government (and there is a difference). I get it from people who actually live and work in several continents.
seems like you know better than us, EU people, how things are going here
you should be candidate for presidence in france
I would love to live in Canada if it weren't for the snow. I hate snow.
Constitution supports the right to bear arms.
There is a connection there for sure. Have you ever been to Quebec? They are by far the most vocal of all Canadian provinces when it comes to (perceived) threats on their freedom etc. The French here had their battles around the same time as the French Revolution (plains d'abraham, Acadian expulsion) that one could argue led to a very politically concious, and possibly unhappy, population in Quebec.
Yeah Montreal is great to visit ... not my favourite place to live though. To be fair, I hate big cities.
ItlnStln. I'd wait to move until Global Warming accelerates a bit more.
That IS a lot of snow.
Yeah Montreal is great to visit ... not my favourite place to live though. To be fair, I hate big cities.
I hate big cities too. An occasional visit to a large metropolitan area usually requires two or three weeks of outpatient therapy from a licensed Psychologist.
Been watching The Battle of Algiers today. Stupid French! POOEY!
Glad you guys shared your takes with the movie. I'm only 35 minutes in and was playing the devil's advocate given the bias shown in the first quarter of the film. Very good, though. Lots of tension, and I'm seeing the French side of things more and more as it goes along. Rashomon is next on my list.
Of course most of these are worthless Republican enclaves.
thats a good point. the repubs owe much to the french!
since this is a french thread, let me also say that I dont know any french movies that i've ever liked. Too indulgent, self-absorbed. What passes for french 'artsy'. Amelie was just silly (tho, yea, i'd "do" her). I'm trying to think of any french movie i've liked. "The 500 blows" was sort of interesting but like all french movies, ultimately pointless. I think that was the last 'classic' french movie i saw on netflix.
since this is a french thread, let me also say that I dont know any french movies that i've ever liked. Too indulgent, self-absorbed. What passes for french 'artsy'. Amelie was just silly (tho, yea, i'd "do" her). I'm trying to think of any french movie i've liked. "The 500 blows" was sort of interesting but like all french movies, ultimately pointless. I think that was the last 'classic' french movie i saw on netflix.
Starting a job with only 10 vacation days sucks.
Welly, you need to watch "Entre les murs" which is a very nice movie actually, but best appreciated in French though. I think it was nominated for best foreign movie Oscar.
Where, oh where, are the beautiful French actresses to take over from Catherine Deneuve and Brigitte Bardot?
Man I love Catherine Deneuve. Hard to believe she was making films before I was born.
Welly, you need to watch "Entre les murs"
- I have mentioned it before, but 'tis the season so I have to recommend Delicatessen. You could also check out martyrs as well with is an odd but good french horror/thriller/semi-gore (it was filmed in Quebec, but is set in France if I recall correctly).
- Paris, je t'aime was ****ing awesome.
- bleu, blanc et rouge (three colors: blue, red, white) by Polish director Krzysztof Kieslowski (he did the dekalog) is actually almost entirely French and, of course, is about French culture and society.
...
Oh, watch "Polytechnique", a very well well done film based on the Montreal massacre. you can watch in English or French (it's not dubbed, they shot it in both languages).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliette_Binoche
I have a lot of respect for modern japanese artists. Here's one of the battle scenes from Ran. Epic storytelling. It takes its time and by the end of it youre its *****. The way stories should be told.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliette_Binoche
- Paris, je t'aime was ****ing awesome.
Is it about the guy who is dying and spend his time watching people live? I have one called "Paris" but have not watched it yet. Actually, Paris was in the theatres in the States.
no, Paris, Je t'aime is actually a collection of shorts, each one focussing on a particular arrondissement and story within (generally "love" stories). Each short was done by a different director, covering many nationalities (not just French). Lot of famous actors/directors.
Since we are talking about the French, I have heard a few (maybe more than a few) saying that the French are rude when they are in France and asking for directions. I must say that I have never experienced this. Maybe I was lucky, but I also think that a lot of those who said that the French were rude probably expected the French persons they talked to to understand English and reply to them in English. I don’t think I can expect people in the States or English-Canada to understand what I am asking in French and reply to me in French. Being bilingual has its advantages.
I agree. That's why you should do what I did: tell them you require 15.
Guess what? It worked.
rofl that pic is awesome
should have posted it in the beginning of the debate, would have made a lot of explaining easier :D
agreed, that pic was awesome :)
Quote from: ripster;237703French Modern Art Joke time.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8lxXP.jpg)
thats cute. I'd like a poster of that actually. Or to put it on a t-shirt at cafe press.
... but thats exactly what I mean that the french people dont appreciate what they have. They simply spasmodically go out and destroy their country periodically and habitually, it seems.
We don't always realise what we have until we don't have it anymore. Before leaving for Canada, I did not eat fish most of the time. We live by the sea, and could get freshly caught seawater fish everyday. Fresh tuna for about $1-2 a pound. Now, I miss this all the time.
came out pretty cool, lol.In that size, people who see you will just mistake you for a Brazilian soccer fan (the color of the shirt helps) and they won't get the joke at all.
I love tuna-in-oil in those round tins, but the oil ones are the worst for you. Water is better but doesnt taste nearly as good.
Of course, mixing Han Solo and René Magritte might be beyond many people in any event...
I totally agree. Tuna in oil tastes much better than tuna in water.
gotta watch out for mercury poisoning tho if you eat too much fish.
from what i read it's the "farm raised" salmon you have to worry about for mecury poisoning.
basically farm fish get grown, are given "feed" and live for 2 years on feed. So then they harvest these 2yr old fish that eat nothing but feed. They filet them and send all the "unsellable" to the grinder. Fish heads, spine, fins, guts. They grind all this up and make "feed" with it. So they feed the new fish old fish, which wouldn't be bad, but they're compacting so many fish into "feed" that it's compacting the mercury. Cuz all fish have mercury it's just that farm raised fish are getting concentrated levels of well, their cousins.
Colleagues haven't seen Star Wars? Don't care about keyboards?
i wish they'd at least pack it in one of the "good" oils, like olive oil. I'd buy that.
Even then, the taste will still be affected negatively. I have had the chance to taste sardines packed in "oil" and sardines packed in olive oil. I can tell you that the ones in olive oil did not taste as good as the ones in the other oil.
I am very bad when it comes to food. I don't eat healthy at all. I know that one day I will have to pay the price.
thats interesting, i'd think that olives would go well with fish (i put them on my tuna sandwiches after all). tho maybe there's a difference between the olive oil and the olive I guess.
Olive oil has a relatively strong flavour. People who are not used to it, will immediately notice that a particular food was cooked in or drizzled with olive oil. When I was a kid, one time my mother had to use a different brand of oil for cooking because she could not get the one she used usually. I can tell that it was obvious right from the first bite.
Art heathens. The worst.Show Image(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5222889318_1d863cc1b7_z.jpg)