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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: 8_INCH_FLOPPY on Sat, 23 October 2010, 21:37:42
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This rant is the result of me typing over 7 characters without noticing that I had hit the insert key earlier.
Is there any logical justification for the existence of the insidious 'insert' key?
I remember when I first started typing I had to look down at the keyboard in order to achieve the blinding speed of 10wpm. There were several times when I went back and erased 5+ minutes of work by bumping the insert key. Now, that was a long time ago, but I still see novice computer users/typists make this mistake all of the time. I once saw a guy at the library looking at the monitor incredulously as he typed a letter he was writing. He froze for a couple of seconds, then started screaming hysterically about bleeping computers bleeping bleep and he literally ran out of the library. Now, I admit that he was probably mentally unstable, but that doesn't mean that the insert key in its current form is a good idea.
There's still a 'scroll lock' indicator light, and I've never heard of anyone using scroll lock, except rarely with dos. Why the hell is there not an 'insert lock' indicator light, at least?
Soooo, whatsittherefor?
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Well, I feel your pain, sorta. In most applications I hate the existence of the Insert key. Not really a problem anymore as I touch type now so I'll notice when I'm replacing.
Now if I'm using vim or a vim enabled editor, I semi-regularly use the Insert to swap between the Insert and Replace modes. But there I usually have a visual display of the mode I am in.
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I think overwrite mode is a relic from a bygone age, when the ability to insert text instead of overwriting was seen as something magical and terrifying. I don't see the point of it any more. If you want to overwrite text you can highlight it first and just start typing.
After all, what are the odds that the new text you are typing is exactly the same length of what you are replacing? Quite slim, normally.
The only time I've ever used overwrite mode is for keeping plain text files properly aligned when editing them (ASCII diagrams and similarly aligned text.)
Ever since we lost proper hardware cursors this has caused problems. Get rid of it! I won't miss it.
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I use the insert key all the time. Probably dozens of times per day on average. I would hate a keyboard without it. It's extremely useful when doing coding, at least for me, as I grew up with it and it's a big timesaver when making updates to code and the need to typeover what's there. If there was no typeover mode, I'd have to delete the existing text first or after typing the new text. Not a big deal, but unnecessary keystrokes. If you really don't like it, simply use a key remapper to disable the key or give it some new function.
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The reason there's no insert light is because the state of insert/overstrike is local to applications (or even documents). Compared to e.g. caps lock which is global. In other words, you turn on overstrike mode in Word or something, then switch to notepad, and notepad will still be in insert mode. And then you switch to some other app, and it's not even supported, and then you switch back to word, and it's still in overstrike.
A lot of games use it for camera control for some reason.
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Some of IBM's older terminals (including the 5251) had an overwrite indicator light on the terminal for exactly this purpose. Why they didn't copy the idea on to the PC is unknown... Possibly because the location on insert on the AT Model F made accidental presses much less likely, and they wanted to preserve the same amount of indicator lights when going from the Model F to Model M.
Either way, modern keyboard manufacturers are far more likely to get rid of, or obscure the insert key than provide a light for the people who use it.
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This rant is the result of me typing over 7 characters without noticing that I had hit the insert key earlier.
Is there any logical justification for the existence of the insidious 'insert' key?
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The reason is that Insert is application specific. If you use a decent editor, there will be an indication (something like 'Insert 'or 'Overwrite' or a changed cursor style). Also, there will be a useful Undo-option hidden in the menus.
There exist a lot of programs which don't have an overwrite function at all, like Firefox or XTerm.
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Good application: Notepad++. Insert mode places vertical cursor between two characters, showing where new characters will go. Overwrite mode places horizontal block cursor beneath the character that will be replaced with the next keystroke.
Bad application: Internet Explorer. Cursor is the same in both modes. Way to go Microsoft!
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FYI: There are still tens of thousands of programmers maintaining billions of lines of mainframe code. We need that insert key.
Kevin hit it on the nose: when I hit insert in my terminal, the shape of my cursor changes and I get a caret character in the terminal status line (I also get a 'Caps Lock' indicator).
Leave my Insert and Caps Lock keys alone, please...
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FYI: There are still tens of thousands of programmers maintaining billions of lines of mainframe code. We need that insert key.
Kevin hit it on the nose: when I hit insert in my terminal, the shape of my cursor changes and I get a caret character in the terminal status line (I also get a 'Caps Lock' indicator).
Leave my Insert and Caps Lock keys alone, please...
Caps Lock certainly should be renamed to "Cobol Input".
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I use Caps Lock writing SQL as well. I like my Caps Lock. I do hate Insert. In most applications, the cursor changes to a block, so it's easy to tell when it's on.
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I use Caps Lock writing SQL as well.
really, why? I agree that, while not GENERALLY required (I guess it depends on your engine), uppercase syntax makes visually parsing SQL that much easier, but that generally only works if you have lowercase tables/columns/indices/variables/etc, otherwise it's all an UGLY WALL OF ALL CAPS. So isn't that a lot of caps lock pressing? Take the (way over simplified) example:
SELECT column FROM table WHERE other_column = 1
Why not just use shift?
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I use Caps Lock writing SQL as well. I like my Caps Lock. I do hate Insert. In most applications, the cursor changes to a block, so it's easy to tell when it's on.
Sql server 2008 mgmt studio auto formats your queries. It's a huge time saver =)
I'm so glad we upgraded.
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Is SQL case sensitive?
I should know this, I have a test on it in about 2 days.
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Is SQL case sensitive?
I should know this, I have a test on it in about 2 days.
Your server's configuration dictates whether or not you can write case-insensitive queries.
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The code itself is not case-sensitive, but depending on the configuration, conditions on text can be. I'm old school, I like all-caps.
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I have never tried this software, but it looks quite good for indicating a key status!
You can add your ownkey :
http://download.cnet.com/Clever-Keyboard-Indicator/3000-18493_4-10775290.html (http://download.cnet.com/Clever-Keyboard-Indicator/3000-18493_4-10775290.html)
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Is SQL case sensitive?
I should know this, I have a test on it in about 2 days.
Table names may or may not be, depending on the server. MSSQL lets you configure it either way.
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Sql server 2008 mgmt studio auto formats your queries. It's a huge time saver =)
I'm so glad we upgraded.
Ech, SQL Server makes me a sad admin. But being a Unix admin I generally don't like most MS server products :P
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I use shift+insert and shift+delete instead of control+x and control+v, just feels more natural on a standard keyboard, than creating a claw with my hand, i'm sure it made more sense when control key was placed in the caps-lock position. So placing a light on the insert key would make that key-combo redundant.
I rarely use insert for much else though, I also hate that it can overwrite, but after reading maybe i'll try using it within my coding practice.
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Ech, SQL Server makes me a sad admin. But being a Unix admin I generally don't like most MS server products :P
ditto.
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I like SQL Server, personally, but only as a smaller system. T-SQL is easy to write, and SQL Server gives you plenty of easy-to-use tools to get fairly complicated tasks done. I love Teradata, though, since it pretty much uses straight, ANSI syntax and scales wonderfully. Oracle is for sadists. Writing complex UPDATE statements in Oracle makes me want to murder myself.
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I like SQL Server, personally, but only as a smaller system. T-SQL is easy to write, and SQL Server gives you plenty of easy-to-use tools to get fairly complicated tasks done. I love Teradata, though, since it pretty much uses straight, ANSI syntax and scales wonderfully. Oracle is for sadists. Writing complex UPDATE statements in Oracle makes me want to murder myself.
T-SQL IS easy to write, that's why I use SYBASE :P (actually, if I had my choice, I wouldnt use that either).
Long live postgres!
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Oh yeah, DB2 can eat a ****, too. If a current date function is any more than one or two words, you're doing it wrong.