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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: Piperaceae on Tue, 04 February 2025, 19:01:57

Title: [IC] DCS Ulivi - Paused
Post by: Piperaceae on Tue, 04 February 2025, 19:01:57

(https://i.imgur.com/NeXTdmP.jpeg)

DCS Ulivi
A full icon-mod DCS set, inspired by the Olivetti M24 Keyboard 2

March 20, 2025

I've decided to pause Ulivi for the time being. I like the design, but Ulivi has never managed to reach a critical mass. The feedback has been split down the middle on nearly every element of it - the legends, the colors, the kitting, and profile. Reaching a consensus shouldn't be difficult if a set is destined to be a success. There have also been multiple grey and beige DCS runs lately, and I'm not sure the market is there for another, coming so soon on the heels of those.

I have a slew of other projects I'd like to focus on right now. A History of Violets will be going on presale this spring, and I'm launching an IC inspired by Raytheon's 6104-series boards. I'm deep into development of a set based on KSR-28 teletypes as well. I do plan on circling back to Ulivi someday, when the circumstances are better.

Feedback Form (Currently Disabled) (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OexxrTSAJqgglxpr-Nylf1aA_sQv4cOBZcBQrgP7KaE/)


Vendors
TBD
I'm hoping to offer this once again through SPKeyboards's storefront and their international partners, as I did with DCS SMRT; provided I can demonstrate enough support to make it worth their while.


Inspiration
Ulivi is inspired by the Olivetti M24's Keyboard 2, from the mid-1980s. In the US, the M24 was rebadged by Xerox and AT&T under other names. But the original Olivetti version was the one to feature their trademark bright blue legends, used prominently on many of their boards from the era.

I had originally been playing with a color scheme closer to GMK Olivetti, but quickly realized it was very similar to SMRT. Not wanting to repeat myself, I started looking at historical Olivetti models for inspiration. The Keyboard 2 stood out, with its icon modifiers, bright blue legends, and minimalist single yellow and mint accent keys.

This is NOT meant to be an exact recreation; the original's profile was something closer to SA or OEM. This is a port of the colorway to DCS. It's inspired by the M24, but not a replica of it.

Here's some photos of the original, in a Deskthority post by Matt3o back in 2014 (https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=7210)

I want to include Italian alphas if the molds exist, since it's impossible to separate Olivetti from Italy; specifically, the Turin metropolitan area where they still operate today. I've also included a Turin bull ISO Enter novelty in the accent kit, as a nod to the region, and an olive branch ANSI Enter novelty.

Using full icon modifiers (the same as those used with DCS Paperwork) allows Ulivi's mods to be as language-neutral as possible.


(https://i.imgur.com/PujFDNf.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/EThuevf.jpeg)
Relegendable macro columns and big-ass Enter


Notes
• The Southern ISO kit depends on whether the molds exist in DCS - Melissa and Will are looking into this! (And of course, it also depends on whether there's enough support for it. If you've been wanting support for languages beyond the typical NorDeUK, here's your opportunity to demonstrate demand!)

• Unfortunately, Greek sublegends aren't available in DCS, so I wasn't able to make a kit featuring those. I had hoped to offer them as a nod to the Cherry G81-3011 HBQ.

• Putting UK ISO in the base helps reduce the size of the Southern ISO kit, since a couple keys overlap between UK and IT ISO. I use UK ISO myself, so this one particular kitting decision is not negotiable.

• SP is working on convex minibars for DCS - AND THEY'LL BE READY NEXT MONTH (MARCH 2025)!

Colors
All colors are Signature Plastics stock resins.

• Background is GAL warm light grey
• Legends and bright blue accents are BBJ (Dancer) blue
• Yellow accents are YDA yellow
• Mint accents are VDV green


(https://i.imgur.com/FdAqNk2.jpeg)
40% with convex DCS minibars

(https://i.imgur.com/8v1AknU.jpeg)
Ergo blanks


Dates
TBD, but probably shipping about 2-4 months after going on sale, given how long recent sets have taken to produce.


Pricing
Base Kit: TBD
Extension: TBD
Numpad: TBD
40%: TBD
Accents: TBD
Southern ISO: TBD
Ergo: TBD


Kitting
Base Kit
(https://i.imgur.com/HLRaFF3.jpeg)
The base includes UK ISO and Alice coverage.

Extension
(https://i.imgur.com/1rS9HNp.jpeg)
Includes Big-Ass Enter, relegendable macro keys, winged R4 mods, 6u and 10u bars, and alternates

Number Pad
(https://i.imgur.com/OyVz2h1.jpeg)
Includes extra function keys for 108-key coverage

40% and Ortho
(https://i.imgur.com/CvwUrrs.jpeg)
Two of each minibar not already in the base, just like Noah

Accents and Novelties
(https://i.imgur.com/X3iRkIS.jpeg)
Turin bull and olive branch novelties, HJKL and WASD keys, and an alternate bolder blue accent scheme


Stretch Goal Kitting

Southern ISO
(https://i.imgur.com/mQaUs5B.jpeg)
Italian, Spanish and Portuguese alphas

Ergo
(https://i.imgur.com/8M2R7Gp.jpeg)
Includes all necessary keys for ErgoDox, Boardwalk and Promenade layouts.


Special Thanks
Thank you to Tour for sanity-checking my Italian; Deadeye for the bull novelty design; Will and Melissa at SP for putting up with all my questions; and to MadMax13 and Mori for their support during the design process.


Additional Renders
(https://i.imgur.com/bD2eRBp.jpeg)
10u bar and big-ass Enter

(https://i.imgur.com/JUzsA80.jpeg)
Blue accents (ANSI Enter artwork still pending)

(https://i.imgur.com/rzPWlYt.jpeg)
UK ISO with yellow accents

(https://i.imgur.com/BGeKvI8.jpeg)
Yellow light render, UK ISO with blue accent, HJKL arrows, and Turin bull novelty

(https://i.imgur.com/87FpWFe.jpeg)


Feedback Form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OexxrTSAJqgglxpr-Nylf1aA_sQv4cOBZcBQrgP7KaE/)


I'm hoping that you'll find this is a clean, neutral set that will match well with pretty much anything, featuring expansive coverage, and multiple ways to dress it up if you desire.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, and icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: Piperaceae on Tue, 04 February 2025, 19:05:25

Yeah. I know, I accidentally posted this to the out-of-the-way forum where I was previewing the formatting before posting here. I've asked the mods to delete the post from the auctions forum.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: MoltenKhor on Tue, 04 February 2025, 19:19:30

Despite my hate for blue, as an italian this would be a nice piece to have in my collection.
For the ISO-IT MOQ, keep in mind that real italian enthusiasts 100% adopted ANSI-US rather searching for keycaps in outer space. Those who absolutely want ISO-IT will never spend over 20€ on keycaps. That said, i can’t speak for the entire italian community, IC form will.

Oh BTW, some ISO-IT keys will require 3 or 4 legends like {[]} on è and + keys, @ on ò and # on à.

Maybe next one will be inspired by Olivetti Valentine, my beloved  ;D

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: Piperaceae on Tue, 04 February 2025, 19:25:49

I adore the Valentine.

I rolled Italian alphas in with Spanish and Portuguese, for no other reason than having seen "southern ISO" kits before in other profiles, and hoping that together they'd make the kit more viable. I'm waiting to hear from SP if the molds even exist first, and then if they do, I can further check to see if those tertiary legends are included. Assuming they are, I'll add them to the renders.

From my research, it seems like the "real" Italian layout is divisive; IBM made their own, and there's no good way to type a tilde symbol? I found more proposals for new Italian layouts than info about the existing one.

I want to offer it for the sake of the theme, but if they aren't feasible it's not the end of the word.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: MoltenKhor on Tue, 04 February 2025, 19:41:25

Funny to say this in my 30s but i might be too young for ever used or seen a keyboard from the time where ISO-IT wasn’t a standard already. Back in the days every manufacturer would just slap keys around the qwerty standards.
 (https://i.imgur.com/fYswfO0.png)

This is what i’ve been using in the past 30 years and yes, the tilde is hiding somewhere under ALTGR and some other 2 keys to be pressed at the same time, like {}. That’s why the first lesson we take in CS here is to learn Ansi-us  :))

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: madmax13 on Tue, 04 February 2025, 22:19:09

GLWIC!

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: masje on Wed, 05 February 2025, 00:04:15

i nut

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: Jampot_298 on Wed, 05 February 2025, 00:45:30

Nice set but I'm really not a big fan of full icon, I prefer to have "Esc" and bottom row mods as text. I'd suggest changing to this given the inspiration even has this

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: madmax13 on Wed, 05 February 2025, 01:02:40

My biggest gripe is maybe also include diamonds along with the command keys, especially for 1u and 1.25u supers.

Big fan of the full icon, though.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: Mr.RotKiv on Wed, 05 February 2025, 03:53:00

NorDeUK kit.. Please? :-[

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: raijba on Wed, 05 February 2025, 11:24:46

I'm pretty darn happy to see ergo kits being offered again, especially in DCS. But forced accent middle columns are unprecedented in any sets other than your own. Did SMRT and Violets get a lot of interest in their ergo kits? I get that it's a design choice, but I for one don't see the forced accents adding to interest in an already low-interest kit.

R4 right shift and R3 enter are also quite unprecedented choices. Most ergo kit right modifier choices are modeled after planck kitting which offer an R4 enter and an R3 mod colored quotation mark, or some agnostic legend in it's place. If you really hate R4 Enter, then I think agnostic legends for both the R3 and R4 right hand modifiers would be preferable to what you have.

tl;dr forced accent center columns and your R3 and R4 right hand modifier legends are deal breakers for me personally.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: Piperaceae on Wed, 05 February 2025, 14:24:52

Quote from: raijba on Wed, 05 February 2025, 11:24:46

I'm pretty darn happy to see ergo kits being offered again, especially in DCS. But forced accent middle columns are unprecedented in any sets other than your own. Did SMRT and Violets get a lot of interest in their ergo kits? I get that it's a design choice, but I for one don't see the forced accents adding to interest in an already low-interest kit.

I'm totally fine changing up the coloring on the ergo kit. SP has been amenable to running them (their new owner is an ergo user, I gather) so I've been designing them, even if they don't wind up getting made; partly for fun, and partly on the chance they may actually get produced.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: ylothar on Wed, 05 February 2025, 15:03:57

Quote from: MoltenKhor on Tue, 04 February 2025, 19:19:30

For the ISO-IT MOQ, keep in mind that real italian enthusiasts 100% adopted ANSI-US rather searching for keycaps in outer space. Those who absolutely want ISO-IT will never spend over 20€ on keycaps. That said, i can’t speak for the entire italian community, IC form will.

Indeed, you can't speak for 100% of enthusiasts, or at least not for me.  :p

I would find it quite bizarre that a set inspired by Olivetti - what's more Italian!?!?!? - didn't have an Italian layout... The ANSI layout has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with our history (I'm speaking for Italians), a history in which we were among the most important protagonists in the world of typewriters.

No hard feelings (:cool:), but I disagree with downplaying the importance of having a set with an Italian layout.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: Piperaceae on Wed, 05 February 2025, 15:13:10

Quote from: ylothar on Wed, 05 February 2025, 15:03:57

No hard feelings (:cool:), but I disagree with downplaying the importance of having a set with an Italian layout.

Indeed, that's why I wanted to offer it; I felt like it was important to at least try to make it happen. I just need folks to actually register interest for it in the feedback form.

So far, there's no takers for the combined IT/ES/PT kit, so I'm not sure whether a pared-down IT kit would be viable either. Sadly there's too many keys to try to squeeze IT alphas into the base (and I can imagine the uproar if I tried).

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set (Now with Convex minibars!)
Post by: Piperaceae on Wed, 05 February 2025, 16:30:23

Just an update - convex DCS minibar molds from SP will be ready next month! Which means they're now available for sets in IC!

I'll update the renders soon to incorporate that change, and also other tweaks based on feedback so far.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set inspired by the Olivetti M24
Post by: MoltenKhor on Wed, 05 February 2025, 16:37:35

Quote from: ylothar on Wed, 05 February 2025, 15:03:57

Quote from: MoltenKhor on Tue, 04 February 2025, 19:19:30

For the ISO-IT MOQ, keep in mind that real italian enthusiasts 100% adopted ANSI-US rather searching for keycaps in outer space. Those who absolutely want ISO-IT will never spend over 20€ on keycaps. That said, i can’t speak for the entire italian community, IC form will.

Indeed, you can't speak for 100% of enthusiasts, or at least not for me.  :p

I mean, you're half right but with my 5 years in business with custom keyboards i'd say that even a MOQ of 10 units it's an optimistic number to reach, not saying that no one will ever buy it but that the numbers aren't there. At least this is what i can see from the big italian communities where ISO-IT is not well appreciated

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set (Now with Convex minibars!)
Post by: mr_foggy on Wed, 05 February 2025, 16:57:23

I'd say take the GMK Blanc sur noir approach and literally make the basekit standard ISO-IT if you want italian legends to exista at all, otherwise the child kit will never reach moq given the state of the hobby in Italy. lots of keys are missing especially in the numrow.

also ulivi means olive trees in italian, not sure what's in common with olivetti at all.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set (Now with Convex minibars!)
Post by: Piperaceae on Wed, 05 February 2025, 17:10:15

Updated the kit renders. Changed the OS mod, stripped the ergo kit down to blanks, and replaced all concave bars with convex. (Renders are using DSA bars as placeholders since DCS convex models don't exist yet, but the bars will be DCS convex).

Will take a while to make new board renders, but I'll swap those when I have more time.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set (Now with Convex minibars!)
Post by: Piperaceae on Wed, 05 February 2025, 17:11:04

Quote from: mr_foggy on Wed, 05 February 2025, 16:57:23

also ulivi means olive trees in italian, not sure what's in common with olivetti at all.

I know, I just like the word. It's vaguely similar to "olive" while staying far away from any potential trademark violation. That's it. Sometimes you just pick a name because you like how the word sounds.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an icon-mod set (Now with Convex minibars!)
Post by: Piperaceae on Wed, 05 February 2025, 17:50:06

Quote from: mr_foggy on Wed, 05 February 2025, 16:57:23

I'd say take the GMK Blanc sur noir approach and literally make the basekit standard ISO-IT if you want italian legends to exista at all, otherwise the child kit will never reach moq given the state of the hobby in Italy. lots of keys are missing especially in the numrow.

I have been approached by an EU vendor interested in ensuring IT alphas happen as part of this set, so I'm hopeful about that if we can work it out.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti M24 inspired icon-mod set (with convex minibars!)
Post by: Piperaceae on Thu, 06 February 2025, 08:45:03

All kit and board renders have now been updated! Slowly working a few more board renders into the mix as well. The new renders show the altered OS mod key, convex bars, and changes to ergo colors and legends.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: ylothar on Thu, 06 February 2025, 13:08:45

Quote from: Piperaceae on Wed, 05 February 2025, 15:13:10

Indeed, that's why I wanted to offer it; I felt like it was important to at least try to make it happen. I just need folks to actually register interest for it in the feedback form.

So far, there's no takers for the combined IT/ES/PT kit, so I'm not sure whether a pared-down IT kit would be viable either. Sadly there's too many keys to try to squeeze IT alphas into the base (and I can imagine the uproar if I tried).

Now you have at least one taker. :p

Quote from: Piperaceae on Wed, 05 February 2025, 17:50:06

I have been approached by an EU vendor interested in ensuring IT alphas happen as part of this set, so I'm hopeful about that if we can work it out.

Hope is everything in life. :cool:

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: Piperaceae on Fri, 07 February 2025, 07:35:08

Another update - the artist I worked with to do the bull novelty will be making an olive branch novelty for the 2.25u Enter key, to replace the faux-Olivetti logo that's essentially been a placeholder. It may be a week or two before he's able to do it, but I'll update the renders when it is ready.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: morimx on Mon, 10 February 2025, 08:44:47

love this, GLWIC!

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: Piperaceae on Thu, 13 February 2025, 12:31:56

Time for the first update! Here's the percentages of people who have expressed interest in each kit so far:

Base Kit: 100%
Extension Kit: 67%
Numpad: 14%
40s/Ortho: 20%
Accents: 72%
Southern ISO: 20%
Ergo: 0%

I am not surprised about ergo; it's mostly there because SP has shown a willingness for running it as of late anyways (see SMRT, Grand Budapest).

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: dvorcol on Fri, 14 February 2025, 23:30:51

More

Quote from: Piperaceae on Thu, 13 February 2025, 12:31:56

Time for the first update! Here's the percentages of people who have expressed interest in each kit so far:

Base Kit: 100%
Extension Kit: 67%
Numpad: 14%
40s/Ortho: 20%
Accents: 72%
Southern ISO: 20%
Ergo: 0%

I am not surprised about ergo; it's mostly there because SP has shown a willingness for running it as of late anyways (see SMRT, Grand Budapest).

(https://i.postimg.cc/PxcNB0mp/DCS-Ulivi-survey-250213b.png)

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: ylothar on Sun, 16 February 2025, 03:03:18

Quote from: Piperaceae on Thu, 13 February 2025, 12:31:56

Time for the first update! Here's the percentages of people who have expressed interest in each kit so far:

Base Kit: 100%
Extension Kit: 67%
Numpad: 14%
40s/Ortho: 20%
Accents: 72%
Southern ISO: 20%
Ergo: 0%

I am not surprised about ergo; it's mostly there because SP has shown a willingness for running it as of late anyways (see SMRT, Grand Budapest).

Can you share the numbers too?

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: Piperaceae on Fri, 21 February 2025, 08:59:39

Received the finalized artwork for the ANSi Enter novelty; it's very close to the placeholder I've been using, though a little less curved. Updated the accent kit render with the new art.

(https://i.imgur.com/sQuyAys.png)

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: Rob27shred on Fri, 21 February 2025, 10:37:07

Quote from: Piperaceae on Thu, 13 February 2025, 12:31:56

Time for the first update! Here's the percentages of people who have expressed interest in each kit so far:

Base Kit: 100%
Extension Kit: 67%
Numpad: 14%
40s/Ortho: 20%
Accents: 72%
Southern ISO: 20%
Ergo: 0%

I am not surprised about ergo; it's mostly there because SP has shown a willingness for running it as of late anyways (see SMRT, Grand Budapest).

I am surprised there is such low interest for the numpad kit! I get that it's a lesser used part of a keyset for most, but having less interest than the ISO kit is wild. Especially with so many full sized KBs coming out recently...

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: Piperaceae on Sat, 22 February 2025, 07:03:24

Based on feedback I've received so far, I've added one more question at the end of the IC form - would you prefer to see this run as an SA set instead?

SA would use text mod legends, similar to this quick base kit mockup I threw together:

(https://i.imgur.com/FzmRtkd.jpeg)

Anyone who answered previously can amend their answers. If there is a strong overall preference for SA, I can relaunch that way instead. (Though somethings like 10u bar, big-ass Enter, and winged bottom-row mods wouldn't be feasible as they're DCS-specific.) The bull and olive branch novelties would still be part of the set.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: deductivemonkee on Mon, 24 February 2025, 22:58:47

As much as I LOVE SA, this set should be DCS. It loses its charm with the large, SA Gorton modified font, IMO

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: Piperaceae on Fri, 28 February 2025, 15:30:15

DCS did win out by a wide margin. Time to address some feedback!

1. Add 3u bars to base
That's probably doable. I can't add *all* the small bars, but there's likely some wiggle room.

2. LED Shinethrough
Maybe in the Extension kit? For stepped/unstepped Caps, Scroll, and Num Lock?

3. Move BAE and 10u to their own kit
That's reasonable, and would make room for LED keys in the Extension kit

4. SA or MTNU!
Sorry, SA lost the poll, and after my previous experience trying to design for MTNU, I'm no longer interested in doing anything further with that profile.

5. Change the R3 Ctrl icon to something different from the ^ arrow
That's feasible. Not sure if more folks would prefer it stayed as-is, but I could make it a generic, OS-independent symbol like a diamond or something.

I'll do some tweaks and update the renders. Aside from changing the profile, all of this seems do-able.

Oh, one person said they preferred text Esc and bottom-row legends, versus icon. What do y'all think?

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: Piperaceae on Fri, 28 February 2025, 16:17:53

So this is how things would look with some of the suggested changes:

1. F-row and bottom-row mods are text
2. R3 Ctrl is a generic symbol rather than Ctrl
3. 3u bars moved to base
4. 10u and BAE moved to their own kit
5. LED shinethrough keys added to extension kit

(https://i.imgur.com/YGJo6Xm.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZEKXu2I.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XeqmBx9.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KUCxfAf.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JBp02cL.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/agKtSjh.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KWckoeP.jpeg)

I'm probably going to drop the ergo kit altogether, unless there's a ton of objections. I also think I'll probably mode the 3u bars back into the 40s kit. The base is just too big with them, and it's very rare to see any base kit include those.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi, an Olivetti Icon-Mod Set with Convex Minibars, BAE, 10u, etc.
Post by: ylothar on Sat, 01 March 2025, 03:11:34

Quote from: Piperaceae on Fri, 28 February 2025, 16:17:53

2. R3 Ctrl is a generic symbol rather than Ctrl

I'm not very convinced by this choice: it seems to me to be out of harmony with the rest of the set.

Quote from: Piperaceae on Fri, 28 February 2025, 16:17:53

I also think I'll probably mode the 3u bars back into the 40s kit. The base is just too big with them, and it's very rare to see any base kit include those.

Very rare, right. But that would be really cool.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi - Incorporating feedback!
Post by: Piperaceae on Sat, 01 March 2025, 06:34:19

Let me see if there's any other symbol that might look better. If not, it's easy enough to revert to the ^ again.

For text-mod DCS sets, I've standardized around "Compose Character" for a generic R3 legend, as a vintage Wyse easter egg and because I know the mold exists. I could just make that key text to match the bottom row. I'm liking the bottom- and top-row text legends like GMK often does, because I dislike a lot of the top-row icons from Paperwork like the Print, Scroll, and Pause keys, but alternative icons don't exist.

I also like having the 3u bars in base, I'm just worried it's too much. And splitting spacebars off from 40s entirely adds yet another kit, when I'm trying to cut back so vendors wouldn't need to worry about all these.

(There is a pricey but simple  giant monokit version I've played with, with 4-key 40s, numpad, 3u bars, and 2u shift and PgUp/PgDn from the extension kit rolled in, and everything else from the child kits cut.)

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi - Incorporating feedback!
Post by: Piperaceae on Sat, 01 March 2025, 09:59:21

Some of the changes suggested by one or two people in the feedback form proved very unpopular, so I've reverted those in this new draft.

Changes here:
1. Moved 2u Shift and R3/R4 PgUp/PgDn from extension kit to the base. The extension kit is now just general weirdness, with no alternates.
2. Added back BAE to the extension kit. Left 10u as its own thing, since it does cost a lot, and not everyone who wants the cheaper weird keys wants to shell out $10 for a 10u bar, too. These other keys can fit a lot of boards, while 10u not so much.
3. Reverted the bottom row mods back to icons, and the R3 Ctrl back to a ^ icon. Left the top row as text, since the available icons for those keys kind of suck.
4. Moved 3u bars back to 40s. The base was just too big, considering 2u shift and R3/R4 PgUp/PgDn moved into it.
5. Downsized the accent kit, removing the yellow keys.
6. Downsized the ISO kit, so it's just Italian again. Adding Spanish and Portuguese didn't increase uptake much, but did make it a lot bigger and more expensive.
7. Killed the ergo kit.
8. Moved blue numpad accent into the accents kit.

Updated Kit Renders:

More

Base
(https://i.imgur.com/mPYYjm6.jpeg)

Extension
(https://i.imgur.com/UjtoA0t.jpeg)

Numpad
(https://i.imgur.com/85OnqUo.jpeg)

40's/Ortho
(https://i.imgur.com/KVepfdV.jpeg)

Accents
(https://i.imgur.com/4UFykdq.jpeg)

Italian
(https://i.imgur.com/mtVxeP8.jpeg)

10u
(https://i.imgur.com/3oI2nvl.jpeg)

In general, I'm looking to scale back and downsize versus adding more. Based on feedback so far, the 40's, extension, Italian, and 10u kits are all on the chopping block.

Only 5% of people want 40s, even with convex bars. What I may do is create a new Alternates kit with by moving UK ISO, 2u shift, and R3/R4 PgUp/PgDn out of the base, and then mixing in 6u, 3u bars, and minimal 40's support. That kit would be separate from the weird stuff in the extension kit, which may all wind up being dropped.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi - Incorporating feedback!
Post by: Piperaceae on Mon, 03 March 2025, 15:55:01

Color specimens, taken in cool indirect evening sunlight.

(https://i.imgur.com/pfco8Wl.jpeg)

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi - Incorporating feedback!
Post by: Gemmmmmmmmmmmmmy on Mon, 10 March 2025, 21:36:45

I wasn’t really that interested at it at first, but after looking at it more, I like it a lot! GLWIC, hope it comes to fruition

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi - Incorporating feedback!
Post by: pseudonym on Wed, 19 March 2025, 14:31:01

Well, I think that could be my Triumph Adler. :)

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi - Incorporating feedback!
Post by: deductivemonkee on Wed, 19 March 2025, 15:59:25

Keep doing the good **** like those winged control keys and I'll buy everything you do piper

Sent from my SM-S911W using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Ulivi - Paused
Post by: Piperaceae on Thu, 20 March 2025, 11:11:34

I've decided to pause Ulivi for the time being. I like the design, but Ulivi has never managed to reach a critical mass. The feedback has been split down the middle on nearly every element of it - the legends, the colors, the kitting, and profile. Reaching a consensus shouldn't be difficult if a set is destined to be a success. There have also been multiple grey and beige DCS runs lately, and I'm not sure the market is there for another, coming so soon on the heels of those.

I have a slew of other projects I'd like to focus on right now. A History of Violets will be going on presale this spring, and I'm launching an IC inspired by Raytheon's 6104-series boards. I'm deep into development of a set based on KSR-28 teletypes as well. I do plan on circling back to Ulivi someday, when the circumstances are better.