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geekhack Marketplace => Great Finds => Topic started by: Parak on Sun, 31 October 2010, 20:34:23

Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Parak on Sun, 31 October 2010, 20:34:23: open your wallets wide... (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130449939994)
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 31 October 2010, 20:36:27: O_O only 99 cents! i am bemused
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: kriminal on Sun, 31 October 2010, 21:39:01: oh boy... early bidder like moths to flames...
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Sun, 31 October 2010, 21:39:21: Im sure it will go for $1000
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: didjamatic on Sun, 31 October 2010, 21:47:59: IBM M13's and Cherry 5000's have definitely become the clear leaders in high dollar keyboards. They are the only 2 that have gone over $1k recently.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Sun, 31 October 2010, 21:48:09: WOW~
well done
It is $510 now
last one sold at $1625
how about this one
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Sun, 31 October 2010, 21:52:09: Quote from: didjamatic;240913
IBM M13's and Cherry 5000's have definitely become the clear leaders in high dollar keyboards. They are the only 2 that have gone over $1k recently.

Juz after u got one 5K
another 5K at ebay.de sold at 200 EURO
but the V80-5000 sold at 1200 EURO~~~
cant believe!
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: didjamatic on Sun, 31 October 2010, 21:57:02: Well, my Cherry 5k still hasn't arrived. :(
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Ekaros on Mon, 01 November 2010, 01:58:15: I love how seller tells they have sold over 3500 Model Ms ;D
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Sam on Mon, 01 November 2010, 02:20:38: Quote from: Ekaros;240997
I love how seller tells they have sold over 3500 Model Ms ;D

I guess that would be because the seller appears to be none other than clickykeyboards.

See this link and their mention of this board, "coming soon".

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/12675/subcatid/0/id/486059 (http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/12675/subcatid/0/id/486059)
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: kritika1 on Mon, 01 November 2010, 02:32:23: Waooooooo
wonderful;;;;;;;;;
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 01 November 2010, 07:30:01: Damn, a NIB M15. This will stimulate us out of the recession.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: DesktopJinx on Mon, 01 November 2010, 11:13:24: Sweet fancy Moses.

Check out the low serial number and early manufacturing date, too. Well, seems low & early to me.

Surely no one who actually USES one of these keyboards will buy it. Unless they're also a collector.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Infinite north on Mon, 01 November 2010, 12:47:57: A fingerworks touchstream sold for a buy it now price of $1200 a few weeks ago. then there was the same in a misspelled auction that webwit jumped on for $27 just a few months ago.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: 8_INCH_FLOPPY on Mon, 01 November 2010, 14:59:56: With the prices these things go for, it's a wonder no one's making them anymore. The collector factor wouldn't be as strong, but you could easily sell thousands of these things at $300 a piece.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Mon, 01 November 2010, 15:11:03: Quote from: 8_INCH_FLOPPY;241219
With the prices these things go for, it's a wonder no one's making them anymore. The collector factor wouldn't be as strong, but you could easily sell thousands of these things at $300 a piece.

Unpossible.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 01 November 2010, 15:33:04: :eek:
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Infinite north on Mon, 01 November 2010, 17:24:12: Quote from: 8_INCH_FLOPPY;241219
With the prices these things go for, it's a wonder no one's making them anymore. The collector factor wouldn't be as strong, but you could easily sell thousands of these things at $300 a piece.

Supply and demand affects the current market price but there is really no demand to the point where anyone will make them. they were expensive to make when they were in production and there was a much larger market at the time.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Keymonger on Mon, 01 November 2010, 19:09:20: Quote from: ripster;241236
I KNOW Webwit is lurking this post. Troll time!

This is for you Webwit!

actually I think he agrees about these non-adjustables...

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nfwL_99pjA) looked pretty good as well.

Now I've seen everything.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Keymonger on Mon, 01 November 2010, 19:16:57: Quote from: ripster;241366
Really?

YouTube is stuffed with these.

I like to think she's channeling Ron Mingo but to music without any syncopation
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/2ByMh.gif)

That ain't so bad... but it is exaggerated. My youtube viewings have been limited to video game clips and caturday videos, so this is all very new to me.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Meg on Wed, 03 November 2010, 12:52:55: They want to make M15 equivalents, but they can't because they don't hold the patent. I talked to them while they were repairing my M15. (They did a great job repairing it, after I had broken it while taking off all the keycaps to clean it, which I had done because one day it just stopped working... after I put it back together again, it worked but not all the keys worked.)
With all the attention to these things, I wonder how much I could get if I sold just my numpad and wrist rests and kept the keyboards... Just kidding, not gonna do it.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: cweimann on Thu, 04 November 2010, 18:56:59: Quote from: Meg;242169
They want to make M15 equivalents, but they can't because they don't hold the patent. I talked to them while they were repairing my M15. (They did a great job repairing it, after I had broken it while taking off all the keycaps to clean it, which I had done because one day it just stopped working... after I put it back together again, it worked but not all the keys worked.)
With all the attention to these things, I wonder how much I could get if I sold just my numpad and wrist rests and kept the keyboards... Just kidding, not gonna do it.

I think Goldtouch owns the patents for the split keyboard. The split keyboard they make doesn't actually separate at the hinge point like the M15 did and they used rubber domes, ew. When my M15 died I bought a Goldtouch and it wasn't even close. I would up switching to Kinesis Contoured.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: DesktopJinx on Thu, 04 November 2010, 21:00:38: The M15 dates back to 1994, so the patent should expire soon.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: netwebber on Thu, 04 November 2010, 21:10:11: The M15 patent (http://www.google.com/patents?id=7f0jAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=5424728#v=onepage&q&f=false) expires in June 2012, which is 17 years from the patent issue date. (Because of international treaties, patents are now 20 years from the filing date, but this patent is old. If the new law were in effect, we'd have to wait another year.) The assignee (the person or entity that has the patent rights) is Mark Goldstein, the founder of the eponymous Goldtouch. He must have licensed it to IBM or directly to Lexmark (The M15 says "Manufactured by Lexmark" on the back). Unicomp took over Lexmark's production facilities (both are located in Lexington, KY). I don't know what the license terms are, or what IP was included in the deal. It may very well be that Unicomp acquired the M15 patent rights from Lexmark.

One of Goldtouch's more recent patents is here (http://www.google.com/patents?id=t0MNAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false). That appears to be for the newer models.

As everyone knows, the buckling spring patent has long expired (meaning Goldtouch could use them in a mechanical model). But I imagine the costs of manufacturing equipment and materials is what's holding other companies back.

Incidentally, I used to work for the law firm that prepared and filed Goldtouch's patents, including the one on the M15. If someone really cares that much about manufacturing a copy of the M15 in the next 18 months, I can put you in touch.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: WhiteRice on Thu, 04 November 2010, 22:58:11: The internet constantly amazes me with that whole six degrees of separation.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: sickchief on Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:05:31: Auction ended at $1835, a new record?
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: MissileMike on Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:19:55: Wow... I knew it would go for a lot, but wow...
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: DesktopJinx on Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:28:37: When *used* examples of a sixteen-year-old keyboard are going for more than $800 (and one for more than $1600), is it really that surprising that there are people willing to pay a little more than twice that for one that's never been used? It's not like new ones are popping up all over.

Figure $1800 over the useful life of the keyboard is less than $100 a year :)
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Sam on Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:53:14: Quote from: DesktopJinx;244003
Figure $1800 over the useful life of the keyboard is less than $100 a year :)

I think this is the key point that 99% of the users don't realize. But rather than express it as a yearly cost, I prefer to calculate the daily cost, which in your example would be maybe something like $0.30 per day (depending on how frequently it was used). If the keyboard makes me more productive, reduces stress, or has some other good benefit over other keyboards, such a minuscule cost per day is well worth it. But almost everyone always looks at the initial outlay compared to other lesser keyboards and doesn't look to what is the real cost.

For a business buying keyboards for their workers, break it down even more to an hourly cost, based on how many hours per day the keyboard is used, and compare that to their hourly wage. In this case, if the daily cost was $0.30, then for someone who uses the keyboard constantly in their job, the hourly cost would be less than $0.04. A very good deal if it makes that person much more productive and reduces the cost of expensive on-the-job injuries.

If this was my perfect keyboard and I was going to use it everyday, I'd certainly pay that much if it was significantly better than the next best keyboard. Of course my keyboard is in use for a major part of each day, so it's very important to me.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:09:39: but seems if u don't use it at all
it will remain the same price
i think 90% of those keyboard collectors won't use their super-rare keyboards at all.
what if ur favourite keyboard crashes then ur desperately willing to pay a lot to buy another one exactly the same model?

back to the thread
3 months ago the price of m15 remained at $500 to $600
there was an ibm label m15 with numpad sold at $550 as auction
then an option one sold at $650 as buy-it-now
then another lexmark label one sold at $725 as auction
then ibm m15 ended at $1625 few weeks ago~~
now new record came up

it shouldn't go that fast...
however, its time to think about will the price climb up to $2000 within this year?
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: Sam on Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:25:44: Quote from: Laggy-gaga;244021
but seems if u don't use it at all
it will remain the same price
i think 90% of those keyboard collectors won't use their super-rare keyboards at all.

But there are diehard users of these boards who are willing to pay top dollar to get it. The collector/investors are buying based primarily on it being a keyboard that is loved by the users, even if they themselves don't actually use the keyboard. If everyone hated the keyboard, there would be little demand except for a few collectors that wanted it just to make a complete collection.

The different types of buyers combine together in the market to make the economics that drive the price up. I'm presently not a keyboard collector (though thinking seriously maybe I should start), so I'm only commenting about the value of a keyboard from a user's standpoint. I don't personally like the keyboard, so for me it's extremely overpriced, being I'd probably only try it out once and then never use it again. I think I'd have to be a pretty hardcore collector to pay that kind of money for a keyboard I'd never use.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: DesktopJinx on Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:42:27: Quote from: Laggy-gaga;244021
3 months ago the price of m15 remained at $500 to $600
there was an ibm label m15 with numpad sold at $550 as auction
then an option one sold at $650 as buy-it-now
then another lexmark label one sold at $725 as auction
then ibm m15 ended at $1625 few weeks ago~~
now new record came up

NEW != USED.

And that $1625 was likely an aberration. There were only two bidders willing to go over $1000 for this new-in-box M15; I frankly expected it to go over $2000. I bet if there's another new-in-box out there that it won't be put up for a long time, and that prices and listing frequency for used ones will taper off for a while.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: sickchief on Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:51:19: There is a premium in the price for a NIB one from the collective perspective, e.g. luxury goods, please refer to high school Economics textbooks.

Personally I'd go for a refurbished board rather than a NIB one if I am going to use it as an everyday input device, as NIB sometimes means "not guaranteed working"
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: DesktopJinx on Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:43:10: In this case, the seller said he tested it. NIB is better if you plan to use it for a lifetime.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: 7bit on Mon, 08 November 2010, 04:11:37: I really don't understand why nooob did not bid in the last seconds, but instead pushed the price for that keybaor^WHoly Grail so far.

It seems as if nooob tried to push it to a record price, just for the pleasure of having the most expansive NIB IBM ergonomic keyboard ever.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: DesktopJinx on Mon, 08 November 2010, 09:42:00: Quote from: 7bit;244144
I really don't understand why nooob did not bid in the last seconds, but instead pushed the price for that keybaor^WHoly Grail so far.

Simple. Look at the bid history showing automatic bids:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=130449939994&showauto=true

Member Id: n***b( 45) US $1,835.00 Nov-07-10 06:55:07 PST
Member Id: t***c( 5 ) US $1,810.00 Nov-07-10 17:00:56 PST
n***b( 45 ) US $1,750.00 Nov-07-10 06:55:07 PST
Member Id: t***c( 5 ) US $1,725.00 Nov-07-10 17:00:41 PST
Member Id: n***b( 45) US $1,721.51 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $1,630.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: t***c( 5 ) US $1,605.00 Nov-07-10 17:00:05 PST
n***b( 45 ) US $1,555.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: t***c( 5 ) US $1,530.00 Nov-07-10 16:58:46 PST
n***b( 45 ) US $1,425.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: t***c( 5 ) US $1,400.00 Nov-07-10 16:57:26 PST
n***b( 45 ) US $1,009.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: p***s( 0 ) US $999.00 Nov-07-10 16:29:06 PST
n***b( 45 ) US $940.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: p***s( 0 ) US $930.00 Nov-07-10 11:32:11 PST
n***b( 45 ) US $910.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: z***z( 163) US $900.00 Nov-07-10 05:07:07 PST
n***b( 45 ) US $860.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: z***z( 163) US $850.00 Nov-07-10 05:06:55 PST
n***b( 45 ) US $810.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: s***s( 13) US $800.00 Nov-03-10 21:00:08 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $641.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: z***z( 163) US $631.00 Nov-01-10 08:25:58 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $610.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: z***z( 163) US $600.00 Nov-01-10 07:39:41 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $510.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: c***t( 545) US $500.00 Oct-31-10 19:41:19 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $305.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: c***t( 545) US $300.00 Oct-31-10 19:40:22 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $172.50 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: e***o( 0 ) US $170.00 Oct-31-10 19:40:21 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $162.50 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: e***o( 0 ) US $160.00 Oct-31-10 19:40:06 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $152.50 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: e***o( 0 ) US $150.00 Oct-31-10 19:39:46 PDT
n***b( 45 ) US $100.00 Oct-31-10 19:12:27 PDT
Member Id: y***o( 1188) US $99.00 Oct-31-10 18:59:43 PDT
y***o( 1188 ) US $0.99 Oct-31-10 18:59:43 PDT
Starting Price US $0.99 Oct-31-10 18:00:56 PDT

What happened is this: an hour and 12 minutes after the auction opened, n***b put in a max bid of $1,721.51. Over the course of the next few days, four other bidders tried to outbid him and gave up. On the last morning, n***b saw that z***z had bid $900, thought maybe his max bid wasn't high enough, and put in an even higher one. Later that morning another bidder went to $999, and in the last five minutes some nutjob went up to $1810, which was barely enough to beat n***b's original max bid but not his last-morning max bid -- probably not by a long shot, but we'll never know. Such is the way of the auction. I'm sure n***b is bummed that someone else wanted that keyboard badly, because if not for that last nutjob he might have had it for $1009, but in the end he won the keyboard, for something less than he was apparently willing to pay.
Title: How to win at ebay and pay less
Post by: 7bit on Mon, 08 November 2010, 10:10:12: Quote from: DesktopJinx;244229
Simple. Look at the bid history showing automatic bids:

What happened is this: an hour and 12 minutes after the auction opened, n***b put in a max bid of $1,721.51. Over the course of the next few days, four other bidders tried to outbid him and gave up. On the last morning, ...

The point is:
If I were n***b, I would wait until an hour before that auction ends, to see at which price-level the item currently is.

Is it too much for me? I skip.
If not, I wait until some minutes before it ends, log in, open a 2nd window, enter the maximum amount I think it's worth (say $3000) and let it go off 5 secs before the end.

There is absolutely no need for early bidding, except you want the price to go off into the clouds. There might be others doing that. It's not helpful to do it yourself, if you actually want that item.

The only case when early bidding is OK, is when you can't get at a computer for the interval between your (one and only) bid and the end of auction.

period.

ps: So far, I won every auction, except where I had forgotten to login, missed the end of the auction, or the computer did not finish in time with the filesystem check.

If you pay too much you lost!

If you didn't get it, you didn't looooooose. This is because you would have never paid that much for a 'buy it now'-item or in a store.
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: zefrer on Mon, 08 November 2010, 10:14:38: Quote
If you didn't get it, you didn't loose

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13437&stc=1&d=1289232826)
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: netwebber on Mon, 08 November 2010, 10:18:42: Quote from: 7bit;244239
The point is:

There is absolutely no need for early bidding, except you want the price to go off into the clouds. There might be others doing that. It's not helpful to do it yourself, if you actually want that item.

Absolutely true. Things would be different, however, if eBay allowed exact bids. Then early bidding might scare off potential bidders. eBay knows incremental bids lead to higher prices.
Title: looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooser!
Post by: 7bit on Mon, 08 November 2010, 10:25:51: Quote from: zefrer;244244

;-)
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: zefrer on Mon, 08 November 2010, 10:56:43: Quote from: 7bit;244253
;-)

Haha :D
Title: Get ready.. get set...
Post by: DesktopJinx on Mon, 08 November 2010, 13:22:18: 7bit: there was no way n***b was paying less; he and everyone else interested in the keyboard knew it. His early bid hurt nothing -- five minutes before close, the price was a bargain at $1009 -- and insured him against technical glitches. Losing to a glitch would suck -- after all, NIB M15s don't show up every week. Maybe he didn't know what he was doing, or maybe he decided the risk of a higher price due to irrational bidder frenzy was more acceptable than the risk of failing to submit a last-minute bid.