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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 09:22:16

Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 09:22:16
i mean any news. I read about current events in snippets online, like the AP ticker on yahoo or something,, but thats about it.

i find more than ever that all the news does is make me depressed or angry and is presented in a manner that is intended to do so.  so i'm not going to be the newsreader's ***** anymore.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 03 November 2010, 09:43:10
Quote from: wellington1869

i find more than ever that all the news does is make me depressed or angry and is presented in a manner that is intended to do so.  so i'm not going to be the newsreader's ***** anymore.


Agreed. I'm the same way.

I think the less that people pay attention to the media and the more that people actually research and find out information for themselves, the more informed we'll be as a country and a planet.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Wed, 03 November 2010, 09:51:16
Quote from: wellington1869;242068
all the news does is make me depressed or angry and is presented in a manner that is intended to do so.
Use your anger, Welly. Reach out with your mind, and find the politician who will actually fix the things that are wrong instead of doing something stupid.

I think what the U.S. needs is a Populist politician, who, like a Democrat, will cut imports and immigration to put people back to work, and like a Republican, will keep the nation's defenses strong.

But sinister forces are working so that what the nation will get, instead, as the answer to its discontent will be Sarah Palin.

It's time for concerned Americans to stop the Tea Party, and bring either the Republicans or the Democrats back to the center, so that Americans will have a rational alternative to vote for. Nehemiah Scudder must not win in 2012!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Wed, 03 November 2010, 09:51:49
Quote from: wellington1869;242068
i find more than ever that all the news does is make me depressed or angry and is presented in a manner that is intended to do so.  so i'm not going to be the newsreader's ***** anymore.


Also known as "sensationalist journalism" or bull**** designed to sell a story regardless of any basis on things such as facts, or truth.

Nothing new there. Find a reputable news source with an RSS feed and aggregate a bunch of them in your browser/rss aggregator of choice.

I don't watch TV personally so can't comment on good TV news sources.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Wed, 03 November 2010, 09:58:23
Double post
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: unicomp on Wed, 03 November 2010, 10:11:08
I don't watch the news and I don't read the news. I live in my own world and try to care as little as possible about what goes on outside it.

In reality discussion and argument achieves very little other than for you to broadcast your opinion. I stopped bothering to discuss issues with people a few years ago, it is easier to just pretend to agree with them in most cases. A discussion rarely leads to your idea being accepted by another party and even if it does then it seems logical that this would lead to resentment. I am a nice person because I agree with you and everything you do is good or can be seen as good; everyone likes me.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: unicomp on Wed, 03 November 2010, 10:21:17
Quote from: ripster;242093
So in other words you would have taken the blue pill?

In a sense, however it is more that I am just past caring about other people; they can do what they like and I can take comfort in the fact that I do not have to live with them forever.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Wed, 03 November 2010, 10:22:14
Hah I like your attitude unicomp
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 03 November 2010, 10:24:27
You both sound like exciting folks. Apathy (which is unfortunately rampant) is another big problem in this world.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 03 November 2010, 10:48:28
Cheers Welly : ) I do the same thing. Main Stream Media is repulsive to me and I refuse to take part. I think Joseph Goebbels would be smiling ear to ear if he was alive today. I think MSM is mostly misinformation anyway and is intended to keep  us distracted. We had mid-term elections yesterday and I have no idea,or care really,who won. It is not like it matters anyway.

If I ignore the bull****  that is considered 'news', I have a more pleasant day.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Wed, 03 November 2010, 11:08:11
I ignored the news for my entire student years for the very same reason.
Now that I started working I found it increasingly difficult to not know any of the current events that people talk about and are affected by.

So I do have a news site as my starting page now on all my browsers. I fly over the news daily but I filter strongly and usually only read the headlines so I know something is going on. What the journalists exactly have to "report" about that particular thing going on I don't care at all because it's likely not even half the "truth" and very one sided.

When I read a "report" is usually just about light topics or something particularly interesting to me but then I get information on it from several sources, not just one.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 03 November 2010, 11:39:02
I listen to NPR and watch the News Hour and Washington Week on PBS.  Everything else is crap.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 03 November 2010, 12:02:44
Pretty much.

That's the thing, though.  Of all the news available, NPR and PBS offer the most balanced reporting.  Their other programming might be leftist, but their news is about as neutral as it gets.  Just ask Juan Williams.

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdz3Sqz0GAx6lcllB-V17MQyZndiSrzxgjoLOEDRToYkn7nfI&t=1&usg=__mp-7lY5ntm6_HsObz0esnF2syl8=)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Wed, 03 November 2010, 14:40:25
Quote from: ripster;242145
Since "42" came up in another thread.
I watched the whole BBC miniseries on PBS, but couldn't bring myself to watch the changed version from Hollywood.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 03 November 2010, 15:45:04
I usually get my news either from the newspaper or the Internet. I ditched the cable TV long ago.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 03 November 2010, 17:09:50
Quote from: ripster

You know this Republican resurgence is working in my keyboard favor.   Since they believe in the Rich getting Richer and the poor being ignored I'll be able to sell my AAPL for virtually no taxes and buy lots of RealForces and overpriced Comptek2wk NIB IBM minis.

The poor and unemployed can just eat rubber domes.


Ahh the only thing better than an ignorant democrat...is a bitter, ignorant democrat...

...I always say :D

(You obviously have no clue what Republicans really believe)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 03 November 2010, 17:19:50
While no party's perfect, the Republicans sure beat the Democrats. The Democratic Party over the years stood up for slavery, racism, segregation, excessive government spending, socialism, and gay marriage. All reasons why I do not support their agenda.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: instantkamera on Wed, 03 November 2010, 18:20:49
Quote from: microsoft windows;242271
... racism, segregation ... and gay marriage. All reasons why I do not support their agenda.


So to clarify, you only support denying the rights of gay people, at present? Everyone else is cool?


:rolleyes:

Guess who will be trolling geekhack in 30 years, going on about how awesome his vintage core2duo with Windows Vista is, and how bad the Democrats are because they used to be anti-gay ...
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 03 November 2010, 18:50:45
As of now, gays have equal legal rights to straights here in the United States, and I wholehartedly support that. They can have civil unions with others of the same sex, and can marry people of the opposite sex, just like we can. I'm not against gay people in general, as long as they don't make a big stink about it (two guys in speedo's making out in public for example).

It's just that I believe that defining "marriage" as a partnership between two men or two women is wrong. Marriage is a partnership between a man and a woman, and that's how it's been throughout history.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Brian8bit on Wed, 03 November 2010, 19:03:53
So you only support definitions of terms as dictated by the Church?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 03 November 2010, 19:44:07
it'd be cleaner if the government only supported domestic partnerships, rather than the religious concept of marriage. :usa2:

come to think of it, the u.s. government isn't supposed to respect an establishment of religion at all... which makes its current support for the religious concept of "marriage" a slippery slope! :doh:
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 03 November 2010, 19:50:15
The thing is I've known gay people who are for gay marriage (regardless if it's religious), gay people against gay marriage (because they think of it as religious) and gay people who are for gay marriage (because they are gay and religious). The latter one hit me recently; a friend (girl) from college who is a lesbian got engaged. They are now trying to find a place to get married. That actually kind of touched me, and although I didn't have much of an opinion on gay marriage before, I think now it makes more sense to me.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Wed, 03 November 2010, 20:04:11
Actually, gays are denied equal rights on many fronts, even if you accept the absurd notion that the right to marry someone of the opposite sex is "equal rights". They can't serve in the military, in many states they can be denied a job for being gay or denied the ability to rent housing if the landlord doesn't like the fact that they're gay. It would be illegal to deny someone any of these things based on their race or religion.

Technically, throughout much of history and still today in many places, marriage has been defined as a union of one man and one or several women. MS Windows, do you support polygamy, given that it's been a standard throughout much of history?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 03 November 2010, 20:07:18
sensible ppl believe that if gays decide that they want to suffer years of pain like straight ppl then why not. Besides i've seen just as many ppl get divorced as ppl get married, haven't seen a gay marriage yet tho.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 03 November 2010, 20:11:49
Quote from: Fwiffo;242323
in many states they can be denied a job for being gay or denied the ability to rent housing if the landlord doesn't like the fact that they're gay. It would be illegal to deny someone any of these things based on their race or religion.

Well it's obvious that a chubby will never make it into hooters, that's because it's not discrimination, they are going for a certain look in their front line.
Wouldn't it be the same if i decide to open up a chinese restaurant? I'm pretty sure i can deny a black or white guy a waiter job even if they have better chinese than me cuz well, they ain't asian. (of course i said waiter cuz as you all know 80% of the cooks are hispanic)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: instantkamera on Wed, 03 November 2010, 20:36:57
Quote from: microsoft windows;242299

It's just that I believe that defining "marriage" as a partnership between two men or two women is wrong. Marriage is a partnership between a man and a woman, and that's how it's been throughout history.

and I believe that using a PC with Windows 3.1 is wrong. Get the point?


Hint:

Nobody gives a **** what you believe, and you dont have the right to use your beliefs as a basis for dictating what people can with their own lives in a "free" country.

edit:

Also what everyone else said. Don't ask, don't tell. Yeah, that's fair, and startlingly progressive ... not.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Wed, 03 November 2010, 20:47:08
Quote from: Fwiffo;242323
Actually, gays are denied equal rights on many fronts,
I don't dispute that. But the adjustment to accepting this new frontier of equality is complicated by several factors.

In many Canadian provinces, Roman Catholics at one time could choose to send their children to the Catholic school system. By registering this decision, the portion of their property taxes which paid for education was directed to the Catholic school board instead of the public school board.

Except for not giving other denominations (there was no other one as large that sought to run its own schools) the same treatment, this is not considered to be making Roman Catholicism Canada's established church - it is merely an accomodation for a minority; they insist on sending their children to schools run by their church, and so this way they aren't at a disadvantage by having to pay twice for their education.

In the United States, such an equitable arrangement is prevented by current court interpretations of the Establishment Clause in the Constitution. Recently, a reform that is Constitutionally acceptable, school vouchers, has been brought forward, but it is being fought tooth and nail by entrenched interests in many states - such as teachers' unions.

In Canada, and in the United States, some public schools have been using books such as "Heather Has Two Mommies" in classrooms with impressionable young children.

Discriminating against people because of their religion is wrong. Some Americans belong to religions which have the verbal and plenary inspiration of Scripture as one of the tenets of their faith. Avoiding fancy theological jargon, this means that God didn't just inspire the Bible, He proofread it. (And presumably nothing too serious happened to it on the way from the original Scriptures in Hebrew, Aramaic/Chaldaean, and Greek to the King James Version.)

Since Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and intervened to stop a woman from being stoned to death for adultery, there is no valid claim that Christianity calls for violent acts against gays. But that homosexual acts are to be regarded as serious sins was re-iterated in the New Testament; it isn't just something in Leviticus alone that it is hypocritical for Christians who eat pork to accept.

If you take the children of Christians who believe in the verbal, plenary inspiration of the Bible, and at an early age teach them to think of homosexuality as normal and natural, healthy and equal... then they're going to come up against those Bible teachings, and reject their parents' religious faith, because they will have been made constitutionally incapable of believing that a condemnation of homosexual acts as abhorrent could be the perfect and inerrant decree of a just and loving God.

So what?

Well, if I suggested that we do away with terrorism by taking all the children of Muslims away from their parents, and raising them as Christians in boarding schools, wouldn't you think that I was an inhuman monster?

This is different in degree, but it's the same kind of thing. Promoting respect for the rights of homosexuals is being used as an excuse to violate the rights of fundamentalist and evangelical Christian families.

This applies to the teaching of evolution in the schools too - but so far the only suggestions for dealing with that would violate the rights of other families. Hampering science education is not acceptable. Teaching lies to children - that there is any real controversy about evolution - is not acceptable.

But I think that one could teach biology in schools in a culturally sensitive way. Newspaper accounts of crimes that are before the courts often use wording that avoids making statements about the guilt of the accused.

It is not a lie for a biology textbook to refer the the allegations of some scientists about the origin of life without noting that "some" means "virtually all"... with the idea that as long as no statements one way or the other about how likely evolution is the truth are made, neither the facts of biology nor the teachings of the Bible are contradicted.
Title: News
Post by: gun_sl1nger on Wed, 03 November 2010, 21:14:16
I thought all you American types watched Fox news for its fair and balanced views? (Yes this is a joke in poor taste).

In Australia I watch the Lehrer News Hour (from **your country**) but don't bother watching the local news as I don't really watch much TV.

I also watch the Daily Show and the Colbert Report (I record these on my HTPC as they are funny) and tend to read the NYT instead.

My problem is that most of the media nowadays is weighted towards one political view or another, so they no longer bring you the truth......but the truth from a Conservative or slightly less conservative viewpoint (we have both types in Australia).

I will say one thing though.

Barack Obama has done more to improve the image and state of the USA than anyone seems to be giving him credit for. Bush practically destroyed the economy, got into a war which was a waste of money and allowed a **** load of rich rich rich people to get tax cuts that kept them rich. Now you guys have these tea party weirdos who are trying to bring back the good old days of Bush-ism and people are **buying it**. I hope your Elephant team don't get back in because I am enjoying the fact that I like America now.

Before pretty much everyone outside of your border thought you were allowing the developmentally delayed to have a crack at running the White House.

Oh and what is about you guys and Evolution being some kind of evil attempt to pervert the Christian way? If you go anywhere outside of the USA and start with the God created the earth 6000 years ago, people will laugh at you, really deep belly laughs, of incredulity. Science is not a belief, it has rules and observable laws that operate outside of human interpretation. Intelligent design has no valid theory, nor criteria for testing.

Anyway, I suppose its a bit off the news topic but.....
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 03 November 2010, 21:21:46
@quadibloc

interesting that we take for granted the right of parents to hand their children a set of beliefs... any beliefs they wish... and expect the children to be protected from competing sets of beliefs.

"what's right and wrong" in education becomes very subjective when no distinction is made between beliefs passed on by tradition, and models of observed phenomena used for technical purposes.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 03 November 2010, 21:33:59
Quote from: gun_sl1nger

Barack Obama has done more to improve the image and state of the USA than anyone seems to be giving him credit for.


How exactly has Obama improved the state of the USA?

Actually, all Obama is, is an "image". He's a pretty face and a good talker, and that's about it. In reality he hasn't done jack **** to improve our country and he isn't going to. His heart's not in it. His wife already said that she hates being first lady and that "it's hell". I'm sure it hasn't been a party for Obama too but he hasn't done a whole lot either. He hasn't delivered what he promised. If you lived here, you might know that but since you don't, I'd ask you to kindly not talk about things you know nothing about.

Quote from: gun_sl1nger

I hope your Elephant team don't get back in because I am enjoying the fact that I like America now.


If you knew anything about American history, you'd know that historically, Republican presidents did more to improve the nation than Democrats. In the past 30 years or so (or one could argue more), however, we simply have not had a very good president. This is a phenomemon in our country and no one seems to be exactly sure why. These more recent presidents have acted more like puppets than anything else; they don't do a whole lot of research or work and instead rely on their advisors and consistently take bad advice. This has been the case with every recent incumbent, both Democrat and Republican. So again, do some research before speaking about someone else's country and politics.

The sad thing, to me, is that we haven't had a single great president since Abraham Lincoln.

Also, we have the liberally-biased American media to thank for all the FUD that is spread overseas about Republicans. I'm still amazed when Europeans tell me how horrible they've heard American conservatives are, only later to find out it's mostly bull**** FUD. People who believe hype are the ones who vote for people like Obama. I'm of the impression that when something seems too good to be true, it usually is.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:23:46
Quote from: quadibloc;242080
It's time for concerned Americans to stop the Tea Party, and bring either the Republicans or the Democrats back to the center, so that Americans will have a rational alternative to vote for. Nehemiah Scudder must not win in 2012!


i'm with you on that bro

Quote from: bigpook;242111
I think Joseph Goebbels would be smiling ear to ear if he was alive today.

goebbels would have been given his own prime time special on Fox. They would have put a circus tent above him and made a fortune. Of that I havent the slightest doubt.

when I was younger I would have been horrified by this realization. Now i'm just numb all over.

Quote

If I ignore the bull****  that is considered 'news', I have a more pleasant day.

thats the truth,and i'd argue, also a better informed day, ironically.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:32:46
Quote from: quadibloc

It's time for concerned Americans to stop the Tea Party, and bring either the Republicans or the Democrats back to the center, so that Americans will have a rational alternative to vote for. Nehemiah Scudder must not win in 2012!


Although I'm one of the few conservatives on this board, like Welly I agree with you. Over the years the Republicans have gone too far right and the Democrats too far left. Neither parties represent their true core values anymore, nor do they truly represent the Americans who support them. It's not even about real issues anymore, because no one in office or running for it cares about them. Unfortunately it's come down to juvenile name-calling and 'Hitler' and 'Communist' references. Please, I thought we were adults?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:37:25
Quote from: quadibloc;242338
I don't dispute that. But the adjustment to accepting this new frontier of equality is complicated by several factors.

i think what it comes down to is, 'believing' christians (in this case, for instance), dont have to "like" gays, and dont have to 'believe' that homosexuality is as legitimate as their god-ordained heterosexuality. The question is, what will they do on that basis however? So long as they dont do anything violent, and dont deny basic privacy rights to consenting adults, then they can 'dislike' it privately however they want, and pass that dislike on to their kids (or try to) if they want. After all parents pass on all kinds of likes and dislikes to their kids (and kids of each generation accept/reject them anyway as they please, and as times change). Kids are individuals too, and grow into adults with protected rights of personal conscience. Part of that right is the right to reject your parent's biases if you decide as an adult that its worth rejecting. Part of that right is certainly also the right to find your own religion and religious community (as well as the right to be an atheist if you choose). Its a personal choice even for the kids, in the end. That sentiment isnt a 'secular' sentiment; after all, plenty of religious sects support that right of conscience too (and during the protestant reformation religious sects went to war over it, the whole question of childhood vs adult baptism for instance, was predicated on this idea that the person should be a sentient adult before acceeding to a church).

I do agree with you that, by the same token, the gay community cannot force a particular church to sanction gay marraige, just as they are free to found new churches that *do* sanction gay marraige. Personally I think the fight over gay marriage is ultimately a fight over the tax benefits of filing jointly, and to this end, for the state ceremony, civil unions would do the job as well; and for the religious ceremony, certainly increasing numbers of religious sects are open to the idea and new sects can be founded.  The former is a constitutional issue (civil unions, ie, the status of 'marraige' between consenting adults of the same gender, is a constitutional issue for the state, it is not a religious issue for the state), and its concerns are things like taxes. The religious ceremony is about things like status and self esteem, and here, like most other groups, i think the gay community will find and/or generate a set of religious sects who are open to the idea.

In other words, in our way of life, you can get people to leave you alone, and get the state to protect you; but you cant force people to like you, and the state has no role in that. And thats probably how it should be for all sides. Acceptance is a more complicated, long-term thing, all the state can do is protect your rights, they cant force everyone to like you.

As far as science education, a similar division must apply, where the state and secular education is concerned. 'Believing christians' dont have to 'believe' that god set nature in motion and doesnt intervene on a daily basis anymore (which is the core deistic idea behind most science education, ie, that nature is a self-running system, including evolution, not 'requiring' a 'divine hand'). But in this country they would also have to accept that state/public/secular education is based on a separation of church and state and so science education will teach about natural systems and not about godly intervention (they can take a sociology course if they want to learn the history of christian opposition to secular science education including opposition to evolution).

SO in both instances 'believing and literalist christians' dont have to 'accept' these things. however, in both instances, they do have to accept that: a) they cant stop other individuals (gays for instance) from living as they please so long as they are not violent and are consenting adults, and b) can marry each other if they find (or found) a church that sanctions such marraige; and c) public/secular education is about teaching natural systems, not divine intervention, and that means any teaching about god-and-nature will have to occur in cultural studies classes, not in biology classes.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:44:37
Parents have the right to opt their children out of classes that violate their religious beliefs, health class, sex ed or whatever. If they don't want their kids to see a particular book, they can write a note and they can take a different class or do study hour or something.

They also have the option of homeschooling them, or putting them in private school. Several states offer vouchers, though I don't see why it's necessary. I don't get a voucher if I don't approve of some war or agriculture subsidy or hedge fund bailout.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:48:45
Quote from: Fwiffo;242366
I don't get a voucher if I don't approve of some war or agriculture subsidy or hedge fund bailout.


hmm... *idea*
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:52:05
Quote from: keyboardlover;242348
How exactly has Obama improved the state of the USA?


on this point i think KL and I will disagree ;) Personally i think O is the greatest thing to happen to this nation in a long time, and also I think he's a genuine centrist.  Anyone who can piss off both left and right in equal measure as he has, has got to be doing something right.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:54:36
Quote from: ripster;242370
I don't really watch long posts anymore.


kids these days :rolleyes:
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:55:22
Quote from: msiegel;242368
hmm... *idea*


lol, dont get any ideas man!  ;)

Quote from: Fwiffo;242366
Several states offer vouchers, though I don't see why it's necessary.



vouchers are balony because if we remove (or make it possible and easy to remove) the common secular basis of our state, then we're no longer a democratic secular state. We need enough citizens who have a basic knowledge of, appreciation of, why secular democracy developed in the first place, and that knowledge can only be transmitted thru common, free, public, and secular, education to our children.  Take that away or make it so easily circumventable, and what you're left with, is a middle-east style tribalism across this country, with each sect trying to take over the state and imposing its particular values on all the other sects.

No thanks.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:56:22
Quote from: ripster;242370
I don't really watch long posts anymore.


lol, dude, you never did before either ;)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: gun_sl1nger on Wed, 03 November 2010, 22:57:58
My Impression was that there have been more Republican presidents so that kind of weights them unfairly and yes I realise you had Lincoln, but you also had Nixon and Reagan so I reckon that cancels them out (StarWars anyone)?

Remember that Obama has had to climb his way out of a monumental **** hole left for him by the previous guy, who you can thank for the current depression the USA is in due to total deregulation of your fiscal system.

Despite this he has still managed to lower your middle income taxes (an overwhelming majority of people, including friends of mine in the States did not realise this until they checked their finances).

The Obamacare plan, so derided in the American conservative press is actually good for your country, yes it is expensive, but the Private Health system you have had for so long is terrible. I work in the Australian Health Care system (in possibly the worst state for public health [NSW]) but I can tell you the training, research and quality of care is excellent. My wife is and Emergency Specialist [what you would call an ER Doctor]. If I had to have an operation, and I was overseas, I would fly home. If you guys gave it a chance you would see that a true public health system can be incredibly beneficial. Its not perfect, but its pretty damn good.

I know some American History, probably not as much as you, but a fair bit. The Republicans of old are not the same as the Republicans of new. The ideas have changed, the rhetoric has increased, the conservatism has become far more extreme. Correct me if I am wrong, but this also applies to the Democrats. They are gradually becoming more conservative also.

The liberal bias in your media is somewhat harder to find than the Fox news stuff, but maybe that's because its more cleverly wrapped in rationality.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 23:04:32
Quote from: gun_sl1nger;242375
My Impression was that there have been more Republican presidents so that kind of weights them unfairly and yes I realise you had Lincoln, but you also had Nixon and Reagan so I reckon that cancels them out (StarWars anyone)?

Remember that Obama has had to climb his way out of a monumental **** hole left for him by the previous guy, who you can thank for the current depression the USA is in due to total deregulation of your fiscal system.

Despite this he has still managed to lower your middle income taxes (an overwhelming majority of people, including friends of mine in the States did not realise this until they checked their finances).

The Obamacare plan, so derided in the American conservative press is actually good for your country, yes it is expensive, but the Private Health system you have had for so long is terrible. I work in the Australian Health Care system (in possibly the worst state for public health [NSW]) but I can tell you the training, research and quality of care is excellent. My wife is and Emergency Specialist [what you would call an ER Doctor]. If I had to have an operation, and I was overseas, I would fly home. If you guys gave it a chance you would see that a true public health system can be incredibly beneficial. Its not perfect, but its pretty damn good.

I know some American History, probably not as much as you, but a fair bit. The Republicans of old are not the same as the Republicans of new. The ideas have changed, the rhetoric has increased, the conservatism has become far more extreme. Correct me if I am wrong, but this also applies to the Democrats. They are gradually becoming more conservative also.

The liberal bias in your media is somewhat harder to find than the Fox news stuff, but maybe that's because its more cleverly wrapped in rationality.



the worst part is, even our so-called 'professional left' in this country (in that great phrase obama used, somewhat deridingly, to describe people like jon stewart and ariana huffington), have done nothing but heap *scorn* on obama's tax cuts and health care reform.  They havent the slightest appreciation for how much he got done in the face of incredible opposition.  Obama said as much to stewart when he appeared on the show recently.

Huffington post (speaking of liberal bias) gets on my nerves a lot too (and by the way, i even stopped watching jon stewart, cuz I find in him that 'easy liberalism' which falls back too easily on uncritically held liberal stereotypes and tropes, in a complicated world that can no longer sustain an "easy" liberalism anymore). So he too just annoys me now, going for easy applause over difficult introspection, as a liberal. The Daily Show audience annoys me too, they're like unthinking seals clapping and honking at the most banal (and utterly outdated) liberal motifs.

Huffpo, i find, basically has turned into a news-of-the-world style rag that has two types of articles mainly: ones that are intended to cause alarm and fear, and others that are intended to provoke lust.  Really, go there right now, and take a look at the articles. 95% of them will fall into one or the other of these two categories.  Its shameful.  Whatever it is -- its profitable -- but its not any liberalism I can sign on to or believe in myself. And yea, i'm a liberal. Its every bit as alarmist as fox news, and every bit as lascivious as TMZ.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 03 November 2010, 23:23:30
Quote from: ripster;242382
I don't really read that one.  Politico for me.


politico, talk about breathless DC gossip.  I havent found any single site that I'm comfortable with. I usually swing thru a half dozen of them, picking up info until i'm irritated and then moving on to the next one.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 03 November 2010, 23:47:12
is there a male version of the view? i'd watch that, not cuz i'm sexist, but cuz the view hurts my ears! the one really hot one sounds bat sh%% crazy, even more so than woopi saying that dog fighting is a black cultural thing.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 04 November 2010, 04:06:41
No longer dating Jerry Brown, but still a great singer...


Quote from: msiegel;242346
interesting that we take for granted the right of parents to hand their children a set of beliefs... any beliefs they wish... and expect the children to be protected from competing sets of beliefs.
It is true that children are human beings in their own right, not property.

However, historically, attempts to suppress minority groups by indoctrinating their children are well known. Thus, it is reasonable to include, as one of the features of a democratic society, that it will not set itself up as the arbiter between competing belief systems. Their adherents might be prevented from duking it out, but the state will remain neutral and behave as though disinterested in the distinctions between faith communities.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 04 November 2010, 06:37:38
Quote from: wellington1869

on this point i think KL and I will disagree ;) Personally i think O is the greatest thing to happen to this nation in a long time, and also I think he's a genuine centrist. Anyone who can piss off both left and right in equal measure as he has, has got to be doing something right.


Centrist? You have to be kidding me, Obama is so far left it's not even funny. The only reason why he's pissed off both parties is because he's a **** president. And anyway, can you actually name good things he has done for the country thus far? I can't.

Quote from: gun_sl1nger

Remember that Obama has had to climb his way out of a monumental **** hole left for him by the previous guy, who you can thank for the current depression the USA is in due to total deregulation of your fiscal system.


Don't blame Bush jr for everything; that's stupid and makes no sense. Bush jr. had to clean up messes left over from Clinton. Clinton had to clean up messes left over from Bush Sr. And so on, and so on, and so on. Is there a pattern forming here?

Quote from: gun_sl1nger

I know some American History, probably not as much as you, but a fair bit. The Republicans of old are not the same as the Republicans of new. The ideas have changed, the rhetoric has increased, the conservatism has become far more extreme. Correct me if I am wrong, but this also applies to the Democrats. They are gradually becoming more conservative also.


I agree with that completely (about the Republicans) but you are way off about the Democrats. They've become much more liberal over the years, often to the point of absuridity (just as the Republicans in some cases have become conservative to the point of absurdity). This is the true problem with American politics; it's not the 2 party system that's a problem, it's the parties themselves. But I do think the media is a big part of it. I know of no scorn worse than the American media. They quite literally ruin peoples' lives on a daily basis.

Quote from: gun_sl1nger

The liberal bias in your media is somewhat harder to find than the Fox news stuff, but maybe that's because its more cleverly wrapped in rationality.


It's probably just because you're a leftist.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: unicomp on Thu, 04 November 2010, 08:53:10
Quote from: instantkamera;242335
and I believe that using a PC with Windows 3.1 is wrong. Get the point?


Hint:

Nobody gives a **** what you believe, and you dont have the right to use your beliefs as a basis for dictating what people can with their own lives in a "free" country.

edit:

Also what everyone else said. Don't ask, don't tell. Yeah, that's fair, and startlingly progressive ... not.

Exactly the same argument applies to you and to me, there is no point in posting what you think because nobody cares. Why post? Why do I post?

Hint: we are all self-centred and like for our opinions to be agreed with; we all have unwarranted self-importance.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: instantkamera on Thu, 04 November 2010, 09:00:37
Quote from: unicomp;242480
Exactly the same argument applies to you and to me, there is no point in posting what you think because nobody cares. Why post? Why do I post?

Hint: we are all self-centred and like for our opinions to be agreed with; we all have unwarranted self-importance.


congrats for getting the point ... :rolleyes:
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: unicomp on Thu, 04 November 2010, 09:09:47
Quote from: instantkamera;242482
congrats for getting the point ... :rolleyes:

No, either your first post was a contradictory post or you are just being an idiot. Sarcasm fails to enhance how intelligent you seem. This is why there is no point in arguing because all that happens is that I disagree with you and then you disagree with me and then eventually one person just stops.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 04 November 2010, 11:14:36
I don't really want to start a new thread about this. Ripster probably knows about this anyways.

Netflix is starting up in Canada. One of their ads offers a free trial, and they advertised their service by giving an example of a movie you could watch with them.

It starred a woman who looked like Sarah Brightman, or maybe Katy Perry.

The name of the movie was "(500) Days of Summer", so I was curious enough to look it up and see who that star was.

Zooey Deschanel!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Thu, 04 November 2010, 11:18:24
2 things:

1) If for nothing else, Obama was/is good for America because he's black (there I said it), just like our very own Angela Merkel was good for Germany cuz she's a woman

2) In terms of healthcare/obama care: Listen to Dave Chappelle ya'll he had the solution many years ago: Canadian Fake IDs for all US citizens. If you feel ill, why not just cruise over to Canada and get yourself checked out?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 04 November 2010, 11:30:08
lol i see the streak of yellow down obama's back more than i see that he is black.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 04 November 2010, 11:51:58
Quote from: ripster;242545
Anyway, to go back on topic (why do I  ALWAYS have to be the one...) if you don't watch TV news then you'd think our new Speaker of the House was pronounced "Boner".


The only reason I knew it was pronounced "BAY-ner" is because I heard his name on the news before I saw it on TV.  It totally looks like "Boner."
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 04 November 2010, 12:13:28
Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez

1) If for nothing else, Obama was/is good for America because he's black (there I said it), just like our very own Angela Merkel was good for Germany cuz she's a woman


That is wrong, and too many people think that. Along your line of thinking, a Turkish president would be even better for Germany! A president should be voted on based on their character, views, morals, ethics, etc., NOT based on the color of their skin or whether they're male or female. That is reverse racism and reverse discrimination. They need to be chosen based on whether they are fit for the job at hand!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Thu, 04 November 2010, 12:38:47
Quote from: itlnstln;242556
The only reason I knew it was pronounced "BAY-ner" is because I heard his name on the news before I saw it on TV.  It totally looks like "Boner."


i thought it was hilarious when obama referred to boehner as a 'person of color'. LOL.

fs=1&hl=en_US">fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385">[/youtube]
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Thu, 04 November 2010, 12:56:47
so i was in a deli today, and some bozo was at the counter having a loud argument with the cashier, about the recent elections. Some gems from the bozo, who was basically yelling and seemed a little drunk:

"...everyone should be angry!..." [no, your being 'angry' is not helping anything at all]

"...there's only one party! one!" [no, there's not. We'd do a lot worse under the tea party than under the dems or even the gop,  and i doubt even tea partiers would claim to be "the same" as even the GOP, and the GOP has pretty clear policy and values differences with the dems and clearly different governing priorities than the dems]

"its a crock of ****, man!" [no, its not. Its democracy and its messy and experimental and it requires participation and reason, not anger and withdrawl].

Sighed and moved on. If thats the 'mood of the electorate', then I blame the electorate.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 04 November 2010, 14:24:19
Quote from: wellington1869;242574
i thought it was hilarious when obama referred to boehner as a 'person of color'.
Well, pink is a color. We white guys just never wanted to admit it because we were afraid people would think we were gay.

Quote from: wellington1869;242578
Sighed and moved on. If thats the 'mood of the electorate', then I blame the electorate.
It's all the fault of the mass media!

They keep telling people that if they don't bother to vote they have no right to gripe. But then if they don't have any decent choices to vote for, they feel cheated.

So somebody has to spread the world: in the U.S. with its open primaries... voting in the primaries is a duty of the citizen also!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: mike on Thu, 04 November 2010, 15:57:28
Quote from: keyboardlover;242348
Also, we have the liberally-biased American media to thank for all the FUD that is spread overseas about Republicans. I'm still amazed when Europeans tell me how horrible they've heard American conservatives are, only later to find out it's mostly bull**** FUD. People who believe hype are the ones who vote for people like Obama. I'm of the impression that when something seems too good to be true, it usually is.


Not sure that it's true that it's American media responsible for incorrect impressions of American in the rest of the world. I'm of the opinion that non-American media is more responsible - they can basically say almost anything without people shouting "Bull****!". And American media isn't immune to the tendency - remember all that rubbish about the UK's NHS ?

Ok they got found out on that one - especially when it came to the more ridiculous lies like Stephen Hawking wouldn't have lived in a country with the NHS! But how many more subtle untruths slip by without notice and give Americans the wrong impression of other parts of the world ?

It would be interesting to see some of those diplomats grow a pair and start shouting "Bull****!" when they see it.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 04 November 2010, 20:51:53
Quote from: kishy
It certainly appears that nothing spread about Republicans by the American media is "FUD" (because the media doesn't create the messages, it just carries them).


Is that really what you think? Have you ever watched an American news program?

Quote from: kishy

Not to mention the countless websites and video clips of specific Republican politicians saying such crap as that they want to repeal bills, shrink government and so forth...


How is that crap?

Quote from: kishy

It is people who hold those values that make the rest of the world hate the US, I believe, based on knowing a decent number of people in countries that are not in North America. The beautiful thing about the US is that you're allowed to have those views, and if the US really respected its own little rule about that, it would be understanding of the rest of the world hating those same views...


People who hold what values exactly? The values that government should be smaller? Pure Democratic values believe that it's a good thing. So let's have a quick history lesson here:
Democrats come from the term 'Democracy' (a form of government)
Republicans come from the term 'Republic' (a form of government)

So what is a Democracy?
"a political form of government in which governing power is derived from the people, either by direct referendum (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people"

And what is a Republic exactly?
"a form of government in which the people or some portion thereof retain supreme control over the government"

Am I the only one who sees the striking similarity between these two definitions? It's no wonder that originally Republican and Democrats were the SAME PARTY in the USA.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 04 November 2010, 23:12:54
Quote from: keyboardlover;242736
Am I the only one who sees the striking similarity between these two definitions?
No; the American people all recognize that both of the parties have given themselves names which indicate those parties support the beloved American institution of representative democracy. In addition to a "Republican Party" and a "Democratic Party", other political parties seeking a large following might call themselves the "Liberty Party" or the "Freedom Party" in order to appeal to the love of Americans for their freedom.

There actually was an "American Party". Its candidate for President was a former Alabama governor, one George Wallace.

Many Americans would have felt that the policies of this "American Party" were actually quite un-American.

So the names don't necessarily mean much, and they, therefore, don't support the conclusion that the Democratic and Republican parties are really the same.

And Americans, by and large, are aware of the significant policy differences between the two parties.

The Democrats are concerned about the ordinary working class, and protecting jobs. They care about making progress in the equality of women and minorities. They care about the environment.

The Republicans want the government to levy less taxes, and burden business with fewer regulations. They support a strong military. They view the family as the building block of society.

So the Democrats are a moderate party of the Left, and the Republicans are a moderate party of the Right. Of course there are also less moderate parties, but they have not achieved enough popularity in the United States to make significant headway, unlike the situation in some other countries.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 00:16:22
what quad said; in addition to the randomness of the names, there's also the fact that historically the major parties have switched their platforms every century or so. The republicans in the time of lincoln were for big government and federalism (thats why lincoln could force the states to free the slaves - so much for states rights). Today however repubs rail against 'big guvment' and are shrilly for 'states rights'. The dems went the other way, having begun as the 'party of the south' that supported the white majority, to becoming the party that supports minority rights (and federal intervention to assure those rights uniformly).
They switched in the 60s big time, when (via lyndon johnson's support of the civil rights movement) the dems 'lost the south forever' (as johnson put it) and the repubs happily stepped into that gap ever since, appealing easily to white insecurity to shore up southern votes.
They've switched a few times over the last 150 years, each one taking up the void the other one left behind.  so while the names may not say much, the positions they hold in a given moment in time however are quite clearly opposite and do present a clear choice between them. Even if you'd like to see still more choices represented, that doesnt mean the two parties are 'the same' either.

arguably, today's dems and repubs merely continue the perennial conflicts inherent in governing a democracy, for instance, before the civil war it was tories vs whigs, with many of the same issues between them (taxes, role of federal govt, laissez faire business, etc).
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 05 November 2010, 01:16:56
i saw an interview with jimmy carter and bill maher and the former pres said that it might actually be good for obama if the gop gets majority (which they have). I think so too, it might let obama grow a pair or grow a spine and get rid of that streak of yellow, he needs to say f this bipartisan stuff and say "my way or oj". (pretty sure the gop never forgot oj!)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 04:49:12
Haha I'm with Lanx on that, would be, uh, interesting certainly, if he were to do that.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Fri, 05 November 2010, 06:14:26
Quote from: keyboardlover;242564
That is wrong, and too many people think that. Along your line of thinking, a Turkish president would be even better for Germany! A president should be voted on based on their character, views, morals, ethics, etc., NOT based on the color of their skin or whether they're male or female. That is reverse racism and reverse discrimination. They need to be chosen based on whether they are fit for the job at hand!

dude.... weak!!!

First I never said he was or should've been voted because he's black. There were enough reasons to do that without looking at the skin color (if nothing else then to repell sarah palin).
Instead of "black" you could also insert any other minority background (including female, there, I said it again) or just plain "different".
Because the fact is that presidents/chancellors are way out of touch with the people they represent and serve and the people are out of touch with them. One of the main reasons is that the people who get the opportunity to be elected into such a position of power are always white, male, privileged folks with fat wallets and an absurd network in politics and the industry. That "one of us" feeling can never be felt if you have douchebags like Bush voted into office (twice!). It certainly does now with Obama, at least for the "other" America that you obviously don't belong to keyboardlover.

Quote from: keyboardlover;242564
A president should be voted on based on their character, views, morals, ethics, etc., NOT based on the color of their skin or whether they're male or female.

You mean like George W. ? TWICE !!!


And who cares about the American two party system and how either party is perceived anywhere and why.
Everyone knows rather sooner than later it will look like this:
(http://slurmed.com/fgrabs/02acv03/2acv03_005.jpg)
(http://slurmed.com/fgrabs/02acv03/2acv03_006.jpg)
(http://slurmed.com/fgrabs/02acv03/2acv03_007.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 06:28:46
Lol you must like Obama - you're just like him. You blame everything on Bush!
Well done. I can see you've done your homework. Bush wasn't fit to be president either but he did do some good things IMO. Obama still hasn't done ****, and I have yet to hear anyone explain otherwise.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Fri, 05 November 2010, 06:41:16
True, bush secured a lot of oil for the US in the future. More important to ensure ppl can continue with the "american way" of living and don't have to change their energy consumption behavior or how they build their sheds, urm I mean houses, sry, than ensuring that actually everyone has a right and the means to stay healthy, not just a privileged minority.

Don't mention that he send 2 countries into a downward spiral, cost a lot of soldiers their lives in an unnecessary war (well ok, you might see it as a necessity to not reduce your oil consumption) and when it got to the promised rebuilding he "outsourced" that to folks who could actually get it done (namely europeans).

Better mention that he created so many jobs by stimulating the military industry to produce even more ****loads of weapons that no one needs.


I'm not on the obama bandwagon so far although I don't follow everything he's doing.
But anyone who even considers bush being a better president than Obama even for a split second is just a f****** retard. No discussion.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 06:48:39
Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez
True, bush secured a lot of oil for the US in the future. More important to ensure ppl can continue with the "american way" of living and don't have to change their energy consumption behavior or how they build their sheds, urm I mean houses, sry, than ensuring that actually everyone has a right and the means to stay healthy, not just a privileged minority.


Oh Bush secured oil did he? Are you sure about that? Haha and it's funny that you refer to our houses as 'sheds' since American homes tend to be much bigger than German ones.

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez

Don't mention that he send 2 countries into a downward spiral, cost a lot of soldiers their lives in an unnecessary war (well ok, you might see it as a necessity to not reduce your oil consumption) and when it got to the promised rebuilding he "outsourced" that to folks who could actually get it done (namely europeans).


Which countries did he send into a downward spiral? I hope the US isn't one of them, because it was in a downward spiral before he ever took office. You still think Iraq was about oil?? You must be living in the stoned age. Get a freaking clue man.

In the end, I think that the American people are disappointed with Obama because they expected a great president. And instead of getting one, all they got was a spoiled wanna-be reality tv star.

(http://www.internetseriousbiz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/obama-president-of-awesome.jpg)

Flame me all you want, but I think Bush was a better president and I think that freeing the Iraqi people to hang their genocidal leader was a good thing. Want to know who else appreciates that? Just ask the Iraqi Kurds and Shiites, whose families were slaughtered by Saddam Hussein. Yes the wmd thing was a mess and the whole thing was not transparent in any way, but I still think it was a success in the end (and I'm not the only one).
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: instantkamera on Fri, 05 November 2010, 06:57:44
Quote from: keyboardlover;242884

In the end, I think that the American people are disappointed with Obama because they expected a great president. And instead of getting one, all they got was a spoiled wanna-be reality tv star.


If he really wanted to be a reality tv star, he would have lost:

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv/sarah-palin-alaska/
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Fri, 05 November 2010, 06:59:40
nah, Afghanistan and Iraq

left a bloody mess, especially by contracting all those nice mercs

And yes Iraq was all about oil. I remember clearly watching CNN in the first week of the invasion. In the background of the reporter you could see the oil tankers unloading all the heavy equip for oil drilling. Within the first week mind you, they had just secured that one city basicaly, what was the name, I forgot
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 07:36:13
For those who are interested in a more 'insider look' on the Iraq war, I highly recommend the Iraqi movie Turtles Can Fly (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424227/) (if you can stomach it). It was the first Iraqi-made film after the war. It's very sad, but also very well done.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 08:03:52
Quote from: Lanx;242836
i saw an interview with jimmy carter and bill maher and the former pres said that it might actually be good for obama if the gop gets majority (which they have). I think so too, it might let obama grow a pair or grow a spine and get rid of that streak of yellow, he needs to say f this bipartisan stuff and say "my way or oj". (pretty sure the gop never forgot oj!)


he wont say that, because he's a genuine centrist, which is exactly what we need right now. As someone said, he didnt even run as a liberal, he ran as a 'come together' candidate, which is exactly what we need right now. The repubs (in their current extremism) keep rejecting that, but its to obama's credit that he keeps trying (and will continue to try; he's already invited the repubs to dinner to begin the process of compromise). What is needed is not obama's "spine" -- it was spine that made him invite the exultant repubs to a meeting - rather, what is needed is for the current repubs to grow balls and grow a brain and start focusing on governance rather than mere party politics.  Thats where the 'courage' is.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 08:09:30
Quote from: wellington1869
he's already invited the repubs to dinner to begin the process of compromise). What is needed is not obama's "spine" -- it was spine that made him invite the exultant repubs to a meeting - rather, what is needed is for the current repubs to grow balls and grow a brain and start focusing on governance rather than mere party politics.  Thats where the 'courage' is.


He invited the repubs to work with him because he knows he's lost the trust of the American people, and that's the only reason why. It has nothing to do with being a "centrist" (trust me he's far from one), and despite his sexy campaign platform, he has yet to deliver on anything he promised.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 08:52:43
Health care reform, the economic stimulus package and the fair pay act, whether or not you agree with them, were among his promises.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 November 2010, 09:15:43
Quote from: Fwiffo;242923
Health care reform, the economic stimulus package and the fair pay act, whether or not you agree with them, were among his promises.


This.  He has achieved quite a bit in the last two years.  Oh, an you forgot financial industry reform.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 09:21:34
Quote from: itlnstln;242929
This.  He has achieved quite a bit in the last two years.  Oh, an you forgot financial industry reform.


Health care reform? Where is it?
Financial industry reform? Where is it?
The economic stimulus package? Oh yea, this (http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/tax_hikes_coming_in_2011_090424.html).

Fair pay act I'll give you. Don't know much about it but what I read sounds good. Albeit a minor success in comparison to Obama's lofty promises.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 November 2010, 09:24:56
Passed, in law, and starting next year.  Thanks for coming.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 09:55:23
Quote from: itlnstln
Passed, in law, and starting next year.  Thanks for coming.


That explains the extreme tax hikes and ballooning national debt. Yay?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:00:09
Quote from: ripster;242940
Stock market is up.


That's all I care about.

Ironic that the most successful bailout program in centuries gets such bad press.  Almost all of the $700B has been paid back.

Unemployed? Let them eat rubber domes.


The other ironic thing is that people hate the new healthcare program but like all the components of it.  Americans are dumb.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:06:27
http://whatthe****hasobamadonesofar.com/
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: instantkamera on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:12:53
Quote from: fwiffo;242950
http://whatthe****hasobamadonesofar.com/


genius!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:13:34
Quote from: instantkamera;242954
genius!


Agreed.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: instantkamera on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:19:38
http://www.itgetsbetterproject.com/video/entry/geyafbsdpvk/

Expanded hate crime law in the US to include sexual orientation through the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:21:37
Quote from: keyboardlover;242942
That explains the extreme tax hikes and ballooning national debt. Yay?


bro, someone's feeding you serious misinformation. Obama reduced taxes on 95% of americans, thats just a fact, look it up bro.  As for the national debt that bush ballooned with the wrong wars and tax cuts for his wealthy friends, yea, obama inherited it and the usual bush economic disaster as well, and yea, its going to take a while to right the ship while fighting the real enemy in the right war this time in afghanistan. Unlike bush however, obama's plans all take eventual deficit reduction into account even in the healthcare plan...

bro you gotta stop believing everything glenn beck says man.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:21:38
I think it's ironic that conservatives that complain the most about taxes don't actually seem to pay attention to what they're paying in taxes. The stimulus bill was 1/3 tax CUTS. Among those was a payroll tax credit for 95% of working Americans ($400 for individuals and $800 for couples filing jointly for tax years 2009 and 2010).

Edit: Ninja posts!!!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:24:59
Quote from: keyboardlover;242910
He invited the repubs to work with him because he knows he's lost the trust of the American people,

lol, dude, the repubs didnt even take the senate, after all the hoopla.  what we have right now is a split  and deadlocked congress, and there is no reason for obama to extend a hand to the repubs. Its certainly a lot more than what bush ever did for the dems.

And yea, it takes gigantic balls to be so civilized when faced with tea-partying repubs drunk with (their limited) power and willing to do and say anything, no matter how outrageous, to score political points rather than do the hard work of governing.

gigantic, civilized, noble, courageous balls, which is a lot more than bush ever had when he was cowering in the bunker on 9/11 and then went after the wrong guy for the next 3 years while continuing to give his rich friends huge tax cuts despite the war.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:31:33
Quote from: wellington1869
bro, someone's feeding you serious misinformation. Obama reduced taxes on 95% of americans, thats just a fact, look it up bro.  As for the national debt that bush ballooned with the wrong wars and tax cuts for his wealthy friends, yea, obama inherited it and the usual bush economic disaster as well, and yea, its going to take a while to right the ship while fighting the real enemy in the right war this time in afghanistan. Unlike bush however, obama's plans all take eventual deficit reduction into account even in the healthcare plan...
bro you gotta stop believing everything glenn beck says man.


Taxes are set to balloon in 2011. I already posted the link. Obama didn't inherit anything worse from Bush than Bush inherited from Clinton. And it all goes down the line. THAT'S a fact. As for who is the right enemy, it's a question of who is a terrorist. We are fighting terrorism and Hussein was a terrorist (and a genocidal maniac). My views have nothing to do with Glenn Beck; I don't even pay attention to him. I don't watch the news either.

Quote from: fwiffo

I think it's ironic that conservatives that complain the most about taxes don't actually seem to pay attention to what they're paying in taxes. The stimulus bill was 1/3 tax CUTS. Among those was a payroll tax credit for 95% of working Americans ($400 for individuals and $800 for couples filing jointly for tax years 2009 and 2010).


Oh I KNOW what I'm paying in taxes. Nearly 5% of my paycheck goes to taxes. That's insane. If there's been a cut for somebody, I didn't get it. And my paycheck would NOT make me considered 'wealthy'. I guess it's like many of the English always say, the middle class always get screwed :(
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:32:14
Quote from: itlnstln;242945
The other ironic thing is that people hate the new healthcare program but like all the components of it.  Americans are dumb.


yea, the contradictions americans have are either sad or hilarious. I loved that poll where they overwhelmingly approved of all the components of healthcare reform and then split 50/50 on whether they wanted it, lol. It comes down to educating the public on how the reform affects them, and i think dems didnt do a good enough job there (and obama got into the campaign late in this election cycle, cuz you know, he's busy actually running the country while the repubs have all the time in the world to mount a 24/7 four-year-campaign of disinformation and be as obstructionist as possible in congress).
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:37:21
The problems with the new healthcare are many, but these are the big ones from a high level perspective.
1. It's not an NHS
2. It's costing a lot more in taxes and the potential added benefits are still not clear in comparison to the tradeoffs
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:38:17
Quote from: ripster;242940
Stock market is up.



and jobs are coming back (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/payrolls-grow-by-151000-in-october-2010-11-05).  another dem fix of another repub economic mess.  quite frankly.

(at least until repubs scaremongering of the american people blanketing them with disinformation causes them to win just enough elections to be obstructionist for another 4 years).

i have nothing against moderate repubs, but the fact is they are in the extreme minority in their own party right now, a party which has seriously gone off the rails into looney tunes land.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:40:13
Quote from: wellington1869

i have nothing against moderate repubs, but the fact is they are in the extreme minority in their own party right now, a party which has seriously gone off the rails into looney tunes land.


While I agree with that, I think that moderate Democrats who don't realize that their party has done the same thing are very hypocritical. Obama is anything but a moderate Democrat, and that's why he's losing.

Edit: I find it really interesting that while new jobs have been created, unemployment remains the same (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/05/barack-obama-jobs-boost-us-unemployment). Do we just have to give it time? I dunno. Is it that we don't have people skilled to take on these positions? No clue. Seems to be an interesting phenomenon.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:49:36
Quote from: Fwiffo;242950
http://whatthe****hasobamadonesofar.com/


brilliant site.

where the dems have failed is in communicating the scope and extent of this work and these changes to the american people. The repubs are far better at 'hitting the chords' (even if to mercilessly manipulate people) than dems, this has been true for quite a while in american politics. Dems cant communicate for ****, and it really really hurts them very badly when faced with the communicative juggernaut of the repub machine.

its not enough to do good work quietly.  Its never been enough to do that. if people dont know, they'll turn on you in a second. and all the good work will be for naught. modesty has no place in politics.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:54:34
I disagree. The Dems have the majority of the American media on their side and have always done a better job of communicating (albeit communicating FUD) to more people as a result of this. That's not the reason why they're failing now.

Edit: I think it's funny how Ripster keeps saying 'let them eat rubber domes', since he used to recommend blue cherry Filcos to every Tom, **** and Mary that joined the board. I guess the blue cherry Filco is the working man's mechanical keyboard! (Well actually now it seems to be the Rosewill). :D
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:57:53
Quote from: keyboardlover;242968
Obama didn't inherit anything worse from Bush than Bush inherited from Clinton. And it all goes down the line. THAT'S a fact.


Well, no. During Clinton's 8 years the US enjoyed a period of the longest economic boom in its history.

Granted all can't be attributed to Clinton  (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/were_clintons_policies_responsible_for_the_1990s.html)and by the time he left and Bush took over the economy was already in recession, but still.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:59:01
Clinton also balanced the budget, and govt. shrunk under him, too.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 11:03:39
The Bush tax cuts were set to expire when they were originally written. They did that to hide their long term deficit impact. Congress thus far has failed to extend them, though it might happen in the lame duck session.

As far as inheriting problems... The 2001 recession was quite mild and really was mostly about the tech bubble, which was not a serious structural problem and a relatively minor corner of the economy at the time. The recent recession was the worst since WWII, with a huge real estate bubble (both housing and CRE), and a major catastrophe in the financial services sector - a much bigger problem in a much more important part of the economy compared to the tech bubble.

And that doesn't get started on the deficit (Bush inherited a more-or-less balanced budget) and two ongoing wars. Clinton didn't leave any crap like that lying around for Bush to clean up.

Quote
Oh I KNOW what I'm paying in taxes. Nearly 5% of my paycheck goes to taxes. That's insane. If there's been a cut for somebody, I didn't get it.

If you paid payroll taxes, you got a credit in 2009 (and will again for 2010). The credit is $400 for individuals making up to $75,000 in taxable, gross-adjusted income. It phases out above that level (IIRC the formula has it going to zero at $95,000). And obviously, if you paid less than $400 in payroll taxes, the amount will be less. Double all those numbers for couples filing jointly.

So either you made more than $95,000, or you didn't pay payroll taxes, or somebody did your taxes wrong, or you don't actually know what you're paying in taxes.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 05 November 2010, 11:32:28
Quote from: zefrer;242983
Well, no. During Clinton's 8 years the US enjoyed a period of the longest economic boom in its history.

Granted all can't be attributed to Clinton  (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/were_clintons_policies_responsible_for_the_1990s.html)and by the time he left and Bush took over the economy was already in recession, but still.


yea part of it was granted to monica lewinsky, she made the presidency happen!
i liked clinton, i'm only blaming him in the fact that he picked such a ... not good looker.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 11:35:15
For all the Clinton-lovers, Clinton also was the one who originally bombed Afghanistan and got the taliban pissed at us. Osama Bin Laden was also leading the taliban at the time and was directly involved. So, look at what Clinton left Bush to deal with.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 11:56:10
Quote
Clinton also was the one who originally bombed Afghanistan and got the taliban pissed at us. Osama Bin Laden was also leading the taliban at the time and was directly involved. So, look at what Clinton left Bush to deal with.

Well, no. The Taliban started harboring Bin Laden at that time (1998) and it is he who the attacks were targeted against. Bin Laden was involved in the Africa embassy bombings earlier that year. As soon as the taliban started harboring Bin Laden it was always the case that the US would have to get involved with them.

And poor Bush, so many problems, such a small brain to deal with them all. I shall play a violin elegy for him :violin:
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:03:11
Quote from: zefrer;243007
Well, no. The Taliban started harboring Bin Laden at that time (1998) and it is he who the attacks were targeted against. Bin Laden was involved in the Africa embassy bombings earlier that year. As soon as the taliban started harboring Bin Laden it was always the case that the US would have to get involved with them.


Harboring?! There's no 'harboring', Bin Laden was a "Leader" during the conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile_strikes_on_Afghanistan_and_Sudan_(August_1998)).

And speaking of small brains and killing civilians (http://www.rferl.org/content/Clinton_Expresses_Regret_Over_Afghan_Civilian_Casualties_Vows_Investigation/1622953.html)...
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:04:47
Quote from: keyboardlover;242997
Clinton also was the one who originally bombed Afghanistan and got the taliban pissed at us.


omg bro, seriously you have to read up a bit on the history of the taliban... you'll find it interesting in its own right, its fascinating stuff, but you seriously cant continue propagating stuff like this.

Quote

Osama Bin Laden was also leading the taliban at the time and was directly involved. So, look at what Clinton left Bush to deal with.

again, on basic facts, this is plain wrong. Bin laden was never in the taliban, he was in al queda and these are two separate organizations. The taliban harbored bin laden for a while, but bin laden wasnt "in" the taliban.  THese are totally different organizations, with different roles, different locations, different sources of funding, and even different political ambitions.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:08:35
Quote from: wellington1869

again, on basic facts, this is plain wrong. Bin laden was never in the taliban, he was in al queda and these are two separate organizations. The taliban harbored bin laden for a while, but bin laden wasnt "in" the taliban.  THese are totally different organizations, with different roles, different locations, different sources of funding, and even different political ambitions.


Fair enough, I meant Al Quaeda. My bad. I get all these terrorists mixed up :confused:

Still, the facts still stand - Clinton bombed Afghanitstan and got Al Quaeda pissed at us.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:08:43
but there's a bigger issue here other than plain wrong facts.

and thats the chuckle i get when you bend so far backwards that you're actually trying to pin 9/11 on clinton. against all the facts, yea, but also that you'd even attempt it, is really telling in itself.

You said earlier that we shouldnt be comparing fox news to goebbels. I wonder if thats any worse than equating clinton to bin laden.

I dont know where you get your political information from, but you really need to diversify your sources of information a bit man. And be a little more critical of all of them.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:09:55
Quote from: keyboardlover;243011

Still, the facts still stand - Clinton bombed Afghanitstan and got Al Quaeda pissed at us.


thats totally incorrect too bro, because al queda hated us long, long, before clinton ever held office...  again this goes back to your coming up to speed on the history of al queda, both as a specific organization, as well as its ideological roots.

in fact, clinton was rightly retaliating for an al queda bombing, which if he hadnt done by the way, the repubs would have called him weak on national security anyway. Just cant win, can he.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:10:39
(i'm waiting for oranjoos to show up and remind us that it was the CIA that caused 9/11).
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:11:28
Our involvement in the middle east has always come back to bite us in the ass... Support of the Mujahideen against the Soviets, our support of Saddam Hussein in his war with Iran while he was gassing Kurds, instigating a coup of Prime Minister Mosaddegh in Iran, everything that's ever involved Ahmed Chalabi... Will it be a surprise to anyone when we find out Hamid Karzai isn't exactly a choir boy?

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00791/rumsfeld-hussein-19_791932c.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:11:54
I'm waiting for you to stop triple-posting and creating troll-baiting threads.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:18:59
Again, Al Quaeda bombed two US embassies in 1998 (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/1998_U.S._embassy_bombings).

That was why the US was looking for him and the reason for those bombings of Afghanistan. The bombings certainly did not make Al Quaeda angry at the US, they had just bombed two US embassies, kinda late to get angry after that don't you think :)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:22:25
Quote from: zefrer;243021
Again, Al Quaeda bombed two US embassies in 1998 (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/1998_U.S._embassy_bombings).

That was why the US was looking for him and the reason for those bombings of Afghanistan. The bombings certainly did not make Al Quaeda angry at the US, they had just bombed two US embassies, kinda late to get angry after that don't you think :)


Yea but I think they were mostly pissed about civilian causalities. But who knows really. Like it's been said, the history is long and confusing. And in the meantime we're all caught up in another one of Welly's troll-baiting threads. Welly needs to be banned from Off-Topic thread creation, IMHO.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:25:59
Um, it is off-topic.  If you don't want to get caught up in it, don't post (see: ripster).  Check out the "Religion" thread.  The OP of that one posted all of about 5 times in that epic troll-fest.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:27:40
Quote from: itlnstln;243023
Um, it is off-topic.  If you don't want to get caught up in it, don't post (see: ripster).  Check out the "Religion" thread.  The OP of that one posted all of about 5 times in that epic troll-fest.

How many times did Welly post in that one?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:32:41
Quote from: keyboardlover;243025
How many times did Welly post in that one?


you can make this about me bro, if you cant come up with the facts to support your positions... ;P
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: instantkamera on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:32:46
Quote from: keyboardlover;243025
How many times did Welly post in that one?


does it matter there, Mr. 1000+ Post Since July(Including a BS thread about that achievement)?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:34:13
Quote from: wellington1869
you can make this about me bro, if you cant some up with the facts to support your positions... ;P


Already did...if you read my posts.

Quote from: instantkamera

does it matter there, Mr. 1000+ Post Since July(Including a BS thread about that achievement)?


Ahh the sweet smell of jealousy ;)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:36:10
Quote from: keyboardlover;243022
Yea but I think they were mostly pissed about civilian causalities. But who knows really.


From the link you posted earlier

"According to Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid, 20 Afghans, seven Pakistanis, three Yemenis, two Egyptians, one Saudi and one Turk were killed.[9] Abu Jandal later estimated that only six men had been killed in the strikes.[1] The only confirmed death in the strikes was Egyptian-Canadian Amr Hamed. Osama bin Laden jokingly told militants at the al-Jihad merger that only a few camels and chickens had died.[16]"

Al-Quaeda is a terrorist organisation, they don't have civilians :) The Afghani were pretty pissed, sure.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 12:40:19
Quote from: zefrer

"Osama bin Laden jokingly told militants at the al-Jihad merger that only a few camels and chickens had died.[16]"


That Bin Laden...what a jokester!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: RoboKrikit on Fri, 05 November 2010, 13:37:43
Clinton bombs people and they get mad at us, bad.
Bush bombs people and they get mad at us, good.

Got it!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 13:42:44
Quote from: RoboKrikit
Clinton bombs people and they get mad at us, bad.
Bush bombs people and they get mad at us, good.


Clinton failed. Bush succeeded in at least taking Saddam out of power. That's a win in my book.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 05 November 2010, 13:46:23
Quote from: keyboardlover;243022
And in the meantime we're all caught up in another one of Welly's troll-baiting threads. Welly needs to be banned from Off-Topic thread creation, IMHO.


I think Welly just uses some kinda provolone or chedder that you can't resist that he uses for his bait in his mousetraps.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: RoboKrikit on Fri, 05 November 2010, 13:46:53
He succeeded in getting Al-Qaeda mad at us.  That was his intention, yeah?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 13:47:45
Quote from: Lanx;243051
I think Welly just uses some kinda provolone or chedder that you can't resist that he uses for his bait in his mousetraps.


Must be cheddar or swiss. Provolone's not my fav :P
I like mozzarella too... :P
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: RoboKrikit on Fri, 05 November 2010, 13:54:09
I like how that commercial is intended to target xenophobes and engender fear, but somehow makes being Chinese look awesome.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:02:51
Quote from: keyboardlover;243048
Bush succeeded in at least taking Saddam out of power. That's a win in my book.


...even tho saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. got it. its a win anyway!


i'm going to trip the next old lady i see walking by me on the sidewalk. I'm a winner!!!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:03:06
Cheaper Realforce keyboards is all those damn repubs care about!

Quote from: welly

...even tho saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. got it. its a win anyway!

...that we know of. He's definitely been linked with Al Qaeda.

Quote from: welly

I'm a winner!!!

I wouldn't go that far...
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:11:23
Rewriting history now? What was the official reason for invading Iraq as reported by the US government on several occasions again?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:16:12
Quote from: zefrer
Rewriting history now? What was the official reason for invading Iraq as reported by the US government on several occasions again?


I never said the reasoning that was told to us was accurate, or that there was reasonable transparency between our government and our people during the whole thing. I'm as annoyed about that as anyone else to some extent, but to some extent I suspect that the conditions involved were and are very complex. Sometimes governments hold back certain things from the public for various reasons. Happens in every government.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:24:31
Perhaps, sure. Given the circumstances however don't you think they would have mentioned that :) Anyway, you're right, you made no such assumption. I was just pointing out that any potential more complex reasons are rather moot given the official reason at the time and the fact that the man in question has already been executed.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:33:16
Quote from: keyboardlover;243062


He's definitely been linked with Al Qaeda.




*sigh*. bro, he's definitely been *unlinked* from al queda, even the bush administration acknowledged that. jesus christ.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:35:55
Quote from: ripster;243079
Hanging is a pretty grisly way to go.  Lot's of physics involved.  

Chinese method of just shooting people is much more straightforward.


maybe the guillotine really was more humane.

personally i like the 'drop 16 ton weight on head from great height' method but govts havent taken to that for some reason.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:36:50
Quote from: wellington1869;243078
*sigh*. bro, he's definitely been *unlinked* from al queda, even the bush administration acknowledged that. jesus christ.


Not according to this document (http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/iraqi/index.html).

Quote

Captured Iraqi documents have uncovered evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism, including a variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. While these documents do not reveal direct coordination and assistance between the Saddam regime and the al Qaeda network, they do indicate that Saddam was willing to use, albeit cautiously, operatives affiliated with al Qaeda as long as Saddam could have these terrorist–operatives monitored closely. Because Saddam’s security organizations and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network operated with similar aims (at least in the short term), considerable overlap was inevitable when monitoring, contacting, financing, and training the same outside groups. This created both the appearance of and, in some ways, a “de facto” link between the organizations. At times, these organizations would work together in pursuit of shared goals but still maintain their autonomy and independence because of innate caution and mutual distrust. Though the execution of Iraqi terror plots was not always successful, evidence shows that Saddam’s use of terrorist tactics and his support for terrorist groups remained strong up until the collapse of the regime.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:39:00
Quote from: keyboardlover;243081
Not according to this document (http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/iraqi/index.html).


Bush: No saddam links to 9/11.  (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/18/iraq/main584234.shtml)

oops.

You can read the whole history of the claim of any link between saddam and 9/11 OR saddam and al queda, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_and_al-Qaeda_link_allegations#2008_Senate_report).  Bottom line: er, no.  If anything saddam wanted al queda well out of iraq, because al queda threatened his secular power directly.

Let me guess, yellow cake uranium? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake_forgery)  Oops.

Neither smart nor courageous nor honest.  Just plain and simple greedy dangerous morons.  If so much wasnt at stake, the bush years might have simply been one of the most hilarious presidencies in american history. But so much was at stake. Which makes it one of the most tragic.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:40:06
Bin Laden was on Saddam's hit list.  If anything, he could have been an ally.  Oh well.  That's Texas for you.  Kick everyone's ass first, then ask questions/deal with the repercussions later.  Ask all our death row inmates about it.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:41:19
Perhaps I wasn't clear. You are justifying the invasion of a country under false pretense by an alleged link of a terrorist organisation and the president of said country who was executed for wholly different reasons, again different than the false pretense under which his country was invaded. Lol?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:43:29
Quote from: wellington1869
Bush: No saddam links to 9/11.  (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/18/iraq/main584234.shtml)
oops.


Since when do you trust what Bush says?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:50:27
Terrorism, human rights, etc. were just an excuse. There are lots of terrible dictators all over the world, lots of them contribute to or harbor terrorists, lots of them brutalize their own people. But we didn't invade those countries because Iraq had something else we wanted...

Here's GWB on Osama Bin Laden in March of 2002, during the PR campaign to sell the Iraq war:
Quote
I'll repeat what I said: I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

But, you know, once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins.

He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore...

Of course, that was before successful Al Qaeda attacks in Bali, Jakarta, Madrid and London. The war in Iraq did exactly what many of us who opposed it thought it would; it distracted us from crushing the organization that attacked us.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:52:08
Quote from: ripster;243086
We can kill foreigners.  It's in the constitution somewhere.


Hahaha, ok, I laughed, I'll admit.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:53:53
Quote from: Fwiffo;243092
The war in Iraq did exactly what many of us who opposed it thought it would; it distracted us from crushing the organization that attacked us.


thats the bottom line. and as a result we lost everything, from the goodwill of the world, to the initiative we had in the war on terror.

this is what you're defending, KL. With a handful of outdated Cheney lies.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:54:29
Quote from: zefrer;243093
Hahaha, ok, I laughed, I'll admit.


;) me too
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 14:58:49
Quote from: wellington1869
thats the bottom line. and as a result we lost everything, from the goodwill of the world, to the initiative we had in the war on terror.


Ok you guys are right. I see your logic and proof (sarcasm). I surrender.

NOT! :D
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: godly_music on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:04:05
When you get down to it, nothing that is presented to us is necessarily the truth. More sensible information is more damaging, giving more incentive to conjure something up. Why argue?

Nevertheless, here's my take on it: Saddam was just another dictator. Small fish. The US had no trouble with their diplomatic relations to him until he was shoehorned into invading Kuwait. The US had no trouble either sponsoring the same muslim fighters that they now fight, back when they had someone else to send them against.

That "War on terror" is a bogus concept is, I think, fairly established. I think TV's big role in the modern world is to reaffirm a reality to the individual that he might otherwise find ridiculous. I watched a German political debate that was from the late 70's the other day, and the eloquence and depth of presented issues compared to what we hear today just surprised me. I think we're all well on our way raising other people's brain children. Even us smart guys.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:05:17
Quote from: keyboardlover;243101
Ok you guys are right. I see your logic and proof (sarcasm). I surrender.

NOT! :D


;) I wouldnt expect you to surrender to logic and proof  :P
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:05:17
I regret it already ;)

KL what you're saying makes no sense, sorry.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:06:25
Quote from: wellington1869
;) I wouldnt expect you to surrender to logic and proof  :P


I would if you presented it!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:17:09
Quote from: godly_music;24310

Nevertheless, here's my take on it: Saddam was just another dictator. Small fish. The US had no trouble with their diplomatic relations to him until he was shoehorned into invading Kuwait.

what do you mean 'shoehorned'? Saddam claimed kuwait for decades and finally decided to act on it. He didnt believe (because of his own faulty intelligence) that the US or anyone else would ultimately intervene. and he was locked in an ongoing war-to-the-death with iran at the time.

Quote
The US had no trouble either sponsoring the same muslim fighters that they now fight, back when they had someone else to send them against.

this is true. Doesnt mean we have no values; It does mean we can be very shortsighted from time to time and we pay the price if we dont learn from our mistakes.  As depicted pretty well in that movie (what was it called? charlie?) our mistake in afghanistan was not following thru with real support for democratic education once the soviets were defeated. It was an enormous mistake and a real missed opportunity.  We're great at intervention, we're really bad at follow-through.

Quote

That "War on terror" is a bogus concept is, I think, fairly established.


its not a 'bogus concept'.  Terrorism is all too real. The issue is how best to tackle it, and its on that score that bush fell flat on his face taking most of america with him.

Quote
I think TV's big role in the modern world is to reaffirm a reality to the individual that he might otherwise find ridiculous.


no, tv's role is to make a profit for its parent company. it does that job the best that it can. When media corporations get too big they dont let diversity thrive, and thats when the dissemination of information -- so vital to a healthy democracy -- suffers.  Its not rocket science. The problem isnt corporations as such, its monopolies and oligopolies as such.  (And the lack of originality or creativity or courage, things today's media desperately needs and cant seem to afford.)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:23:23
Did you guys hear about this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/05/nbc-anchorman-suspended-donating-democrats (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/05/nbc-anchorman-suspended-donating-democrats)

Crazy...I'm glad that MSNBC did the right thing here.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:27:16
Quote from: keyboardlover;243114
Did you guys hear about this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/05/nbc-anchorman-suspended-donating-democrats (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/05/nbc-anchorman-suspended-donating-democrats)

Crazy...I'm glad that MSNBC did the right thing here.


is that about olbermann? was it really a surprise that he supports democratic canddiates?

personally i think npr overreacted with juan williams and msnbc overreacted with olbermann. dont know whats going on.

in olbermann's case especially, his whole show is about beating up on repubs, its an opinion-show, not a news show. so why suspend him? It would be like suspending glenn beck for being a mormon.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:30:07
He was suspended for funding politicians, not for his beliefs.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:30:51
Quote from: keyboardlover;243116
He was suspended for funding politicians, not for his beliefs.


he made contributions to candidates. so what? its perfectly legal. I dont know the details in his case, but if thats all it was, then I dont get it.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:33:08
Quote from: wellington1869
he made contributions to candidates. so what? its perfectly legal. I dont know the details in his case, but if thats all it was, then I dont get it.


Are you a lawyer?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:40:22
Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan have donated to candidates in recent years, but they never got suspended from MSNBC. Oh wait, they donated to Republicans, so it's just fine.

It's Phil Donahue all over again. I wonder if they'll tap Michael Savage again.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:48:38
Quote from: Fwiffo;243123
Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan have donated to candidates in recent years, but they never got suspended from MSNBC. Oh wait, they donated to Republicans, so it's just fine.

It's Phil Donahue all over again. I wonder if they'll tap Michael Savage again.


seriously.  (my hated) huffpo notes (correctly) that some 30 fox news anchors and journalists have actively raised money for or campaigned for repubs, none of them got fired.

and they quote even arch-conservative bill kristol saying olberman's firing was 'ludicrous'.  I tend to agree. sounds really silly, like some clueless msnbc exec was having a bad day.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:50:19
Quote from: wellington1869

and they quote even bill kristol saying olberman's firing was 'ludricrous'.


That's not ludicrous.

THIS is ludicrous.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Ludacris_2008.jpg/220px-Ludacris_2008.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:51:52
Fox News bobble-heads would get fired for not raising money for Republicans.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:55:34
Quote from: Fwiffo
Fox News bobble-heads would get fired for not raising money for Republicans.


Lol! That's a good one.

(http://unusuallife.com/wp-content/uploads2006/BillOReilly_01.jpg)

Edit: I want an O'Reilly bobble head. That'd be awesome.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Fri, 05 November 2010, 15:57:09
Quote from: keyboardlover;243116
He was suspended for funding politicians, not for his beliefs.
Reading the Guardian article, though, it's clear that donating to a politician isn't a corrupt act - so the only legitimate reason for reacting to a donation is that it gives an appearance that a journalist is biased.

"Like suspending Glenn Beck for being a moron"... when that is apparently what he was hired for... probably puts it quite well, given that Obermann was an opinionated voice. Still, I don't fault liberals for wanting to take the high road, even if Republicans don't.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 16:03:28
Quote from: quadibloc;243134
Still, I don't fault liberals for wanting to take the high road, even if Republicans don't.


maybe there's some value in that, i agree, and its good not to emulate fox news; but this seems over the top, like they were looking for a reason to fire him anyway (how were his ratings? I havent watched olbermann in a long time. I rather liked ben affleck's parody of him on SNL earlier this year).
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 16:04:50
Quote from: keyboardlover;243129
That's not ludicrous.

THIS is ludicrous.

Show Image
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Ludacris_2008.jpg/220px-Ludacris_2008.jpg)


good point
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 05 November 2010, 16:05:27
Olbermann is the highest rated show on MSNBC, as was Phil Donahue at the time he was fired.

I actually don't care for him; I think he's insufferable (Rachael Maddow is so much better), but it's obvious given the timing and the double standard WRT to conservatives on the network, that it was just an excuse to fire him for being a liberal.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: godly_music on Fri, 05 November 2010, 16:10:06
Quote from: wellington1869;243110
what do you mean 'shoehorned'? Saddam claimed kuwait for decades and finally decided to act on it. He didnt believe (because of his own faulty intelligence) that the US or anyone else would ultimately intervene. and he was locked in an ongoing war-to-the-death with iran at the time.


Kuwait was an important ally in Iraq's war against Iran. Iraq had a heavy debt to Kuwait and tried to get out of it by OPEC production cuts. Kuwait would not pardon the debt, and instead increased their own oil production to counter the decrease. Iraq economy collapsed, and it was called an act of aggression. Kuwait didn't want to back down against an enemy already putting up troops on the borders. This is seen by some as hint that Kuwait had US backing in a plan to lure Iraq into the offense.

Quote from: wellington1869;243110
this is true. Doesnt mean we have no values; It does mean we can be very shortsighted from time to time and we pay the price if we dont learn from our mistakes.  As depicted pretty well in that movie (what was it called? charlie?) our mistake in afghanistan was not following thru with real support for democratic education once the soviets were defeated. It was an enormous mistake and a real missed opportunity.  We're great at intervention, we're really bad at follow-through.


Who knows why people do what they do in world politics. What I do know is that it wouldn't hurt for America to turn their eyes inward for a change. The thing that many people argue Bush Jr. was trying to distract from with what he did.

Quote from: wellington1869;243110
its not a 'bogus concept'.  Terrorism is all too real. The issue is how best to tackle it, and its on that score that bush fell flat on his face taking most of america with him.


Terrorists following a single ideology can come from many different countries that may all be at peace with their neighbors and the rest of the world. You do not wage war on individuals, that is what's bogus about it. You're right, this only boils down to how you tackle the issue. But a nonsensical expression like this can only have been made up by people who have no clue how to tackle the issue because they haven't grasped how terrorism works. And the result of this was an unimaginative, traditional war that completely ignored the issue.

Quote from: wellington1869;243110
no, tv's role is to make a profit for its parent company. it does that job the best that it can. When media corporations get too big they dont let diversity thrive, and thats when the dissemination of information -- so vital to a healthy democracy -- suffers.  Its not rocket science. The problem isnt corporations as such, its monopolies and oligopolies as such.  (And the lack of originality or creativity or courage, things today's media desperately needs.)


Yeah, it does that. I should've said it's the effect, not the role.

I find information suffers much earlier. When a guy who is involved with a show or the news goes: "We'll get more people with car crashes." Doesn't need a monopoly to smell the best bait. Doesn't need a genius to figure out in what direction this pushes people mentally.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 16:17:12
Quote from: godly_music;243142
Kuwait was an important ally in Iraq's war against Iran. Iraq had a heavy debt to Kuwait and tried to get out of it by OPEC production cuts. Kuwait would not pardon the debt, and instead increased their own oil production to counter the decrease. Iraq economy collapsed, and it was called an act of aggression. Kuwait didn't want to back down against an enemy already putting up troops on the borders. This is seen by some as hint that Kuwait had US backing in a plan to lure Iraq into the offense.

ok, fair enough. He did claim for a long time that kuwait was part of 'historical iraq' though.  Also I still dont see how he was 'shoehorned' into the war with kuwait, which makes it sound like he had no choice. Instead, it sounds like he needed a scapegoat and a distraction from his internal woes.
 
Quote

What I do know is that it wouldn't hurt for America to turn their eyes inward for a change.

this is true of nearly any nation or group, and arguably today, evangelical islam in particular.  

Quote

Terrorists following a single ideology can come from many different countries that may all be at peace with their neighbors and the rest of the world. You do not wage war on individuals, that is what's bogus about it. You're right, this only boils down to how you tackle the issue. But a nonsensical expression like this can only have been made up by people who have no clue how to tackle the issue because they haven't grasped how terrorism works. And the result of this was an unimaginative, traditional war that completely ignored the issue.

i actually agree with this.  The name reflects the frightened state of affairs that a misguided political correctness has landed us in.

Quote

I find information suffers much earlier. When a guy who is involved with a show or the news goes: "We'll get more people with car crashes." Doesn't need a monopoly to smell the best bait.

true, too much competition can create unhealthy desperation for ratings too. creating a situation as bland and destructive as any monopoly.

Quote
Doesn't need a genius to figure out in what direction this pushes people mentally.

well, i'm just saying I dont think there's a conspiracy to make people dumb. I think the effect is an outcome of other factors (like too much or too little economic competition) rather than individuals engaging in conspiracy, whcih is what this sounds like a bit.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: godly_music on Fri, 05 November 2010, 16:26:00
Quote from: wellington1869;243147

well, i'm just saying I dont think there's a conspiracy to make people dumb. I think the effect is an outcome of other factors (like too much or too little economic competition) rather than individuals engaging in conspiracy, whcih is what this sounds like a bit.


Oh yeah, I go on that tangent pretty easily. People sitting in a dimmed room smoking cigars and plotting to kill a large part of the earth's population by producing products that cause cancer.. does sound silly. What's kinda scary though is that, the effects we get from TV overexposure, buying medicated meat or other possibly hazardous processed foods and drugs, yada yada, would work pretty well in a conspiracy situation. That we do all this **** to ourselves just out of stupidity and greed is kind of putting humankind in a worse light than option A. ;)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 18:04:56
Quote from: godly_music;243153
That we do all this **** to ourselves just out of stupidity and greed is kind of putting humankind in a worse light than option A. ;)


i guess i'm inclined to think humankind is that dumb even as our masters are that evil ;) Its kind of a lose lose situation ;)  Not hopeless, but will take a ton of work to improve it any cuz if we're not fighting evil overlords then we're fighting really, really stupid masses.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 18:12:54
Quote from: ripster
Actually it'll get better once women take control.

Nancy Pelosi announces she'll become House Minority Leader.

Republicans hate strong women so this should result in much lulz.


I think it will result in much lulz because she'll likely fail and bring Obama down with her. Not that I think he cares. His heart's not in it.

Other lulz may result from her face drooping during public speaking events.

(http://p21chong.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/nancy-pelosi-facelift.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 05 November 2010, 18:48:23
Vote for Joad Cressbeckler!

He is someone we all can believe in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqktCdX0hs
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 05 November 2010, 19:21:26
Quote from: ripster

Republicans are a "do nothing" party.  It's going to be embarassing in two years when their only accomplishment will be sending more jobs overseas and extending tax credits to the wealthy.


Ironic since historically they've done more to make the country competitive than Democrats (talk about a party that REALLY does nothng). More FUD from the leftist GH peanut gallery.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 05 November 2010, 20:21:40
Quote from: Computer-Lab in Basement;243199
Vote for Joad Cressbeckler!

He is someone we all can believe in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqktCdX0hs


lol, i'm a huge fan of joad cressbeckler! :) I keep hoping the onion gives him his own regular show already.
(saw him on a different ad the other day, for a make-your-own business cards site.)


fs=1&hl=en_US">fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385">[/youtube]


fs=1&hl=en_US">fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385">[/youtube]
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: audioave10 on Sun, 07 November 2010, 22:17:39
It seems that news reporters have all become "Stars".
(at least in their own mind)
I don't watch ANY of them.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Mon, 08 November 2010, 07:05:55
Quote from: keyboardlover;243062

...that we know of. He's definitely been linked with Al Qaeda.


(http://www.president-bush.com/alqaeda-iraqlink.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 08 November 2010, 16:41:07
my friend received this as spam, but its pretty funny actually:

------------------------------------

A teacher asked her 6th grade class how many of them were Palin fans.

Not really knowing what a Palin fan is, but wanting to be liked by the
teacher, all the kids raised their hands except for Little Johnny.

The teacher asked Little Johnny why he has decided to be different... again.

Little Johnny said, "Because I'm not a Palin fan."

The teacher asked, "Why aren't you a fan of Palin?"

Johnny said, "Because I'm a Democrat."

The teacher asked him why he's a Democrat.


 Little Johnny answered, "Well, my mom's a Democrat and my dad 's a
Democrat, so I'm a Democrat."

Annoyed by this answer, the teacher asked, "If your mom were a moron and
your dad were an idiot, what would that make you?"

With a big smile, Little Johnny replied, "That would make me a Palin fan."
------------------------------------




tee hee.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Mon, 08 November 2010, 17:17:26
Lol that's pretty funny
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Voixdelion on Fri, 12 November 2010, 11:45:11
Late to the party on this thread, but here's my two cents on the first page (first):

Quote from: wellington1869;242068
i mean any news. I read about current events in snippets online, like the AP ticker on yahoo or something,, but thats about it.

i find more than ever that all the news does is make me depressed or angry and is presented in a manner that is intended to do so.  so i'm not going to be the newsreader's ***** anymore.

While at Emerson College, to which I transferred for the purpose of majoring in broadcast journalism, it took only a few actual days of attending my "News history, analysis and research" class (basic req. course for the major) before becoming totally disillusioned with the entire concept.  

The coursework involved actually having to watch several news programs on daily basis, and after knowing what I then knew about what went into them before airing, I couldn't stomach it any longer.  Dropped both the course and the major in under two weeks and switched to advertising and PR, which actually seemed like the more honest career with more integrity after learning the truth about "News."    

The thing that I appreciate most about Emerson is what I learned about the Mass Media as a whole and the way communication is so affected by the relationship between the message and the messenger.  I realize that my perception of the world would not likely be the same had I not attended Emerson.  Now that I think of it, too, it actually helps me understand why the country is so out of whack considering that most people did NOT get that sort of information from the schools they attended.

My mom didn't really value the idea of education for the sake of itself, but she wanted me to attend college so that I could "get a job."  If I had known that when I was applying to schools, I would have not even bothered until I had some Idea of what kind of job I wanted to get, possibly even saved her $100,000 in tuition in the process.  I just assumed it was expected of me, the same way that graduation from high school was.   I don't know if a degree in "Communication Studies" is useful for a damn thing as far as making me more employable, but I will say that the practical knowledge if afforded me is something I consider invaluable now.  

Quote from: quadibloc;242080
Use your anger, Welly. Reach out with your mind, and find the politician who will actually fix the things that are wrong instead of doing something stupid.

I think what the U.S. needs is a Populist politician, who, like a Democrat, will cut imports and immigration to put people back to work, and like a Republican, will keep the nation's defenses strong.

But sinister forces are working so that what the nation will get, instead, as the answer to its discontent will be Sarah Palin.

It's time for concerned Americans to stop the Tea Party, and bring either the Republicans or the Democrats back to the center, so that Americans will have a rational alternative to vote for. Nehemiah Scudder must not win in 2012!


The man that would fit that bill never had a shot, although he did run:  Mike Gravel.  He got my attention one Sunday morning that the TV was left on and the Iowa (?) debates awakened me.  I was about to turn it off and go back to bed, but it was Gravel's turn to speak and he was pretty ticked about something, so it got my attention long enough to process the fact that he seemed, surprisingly, to be making a good deal more sense than I expected a politician to be making.  I recall sitting there in shock thinking, "Holy ****, did he really just say that?  That sounded suspiciously like the truth.  Who the hell is this guy?"   Now I ****in' LOVE im.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 12 November 2010, 13:58:55
Quote from: Voixdelion;245960
it took only a few actual days of attending my "News history, analysis and research" class (basic req. course for the major) before becoming totally disillusioned with the entire concept.  

lol, i had that experience with my first graduate course in historical methods.

Quote

The coursework involved actually having to watch several news programs on daily basis, and after knowing what I then knew about what went into them before airing, I couldn't stomach it any longer.  

ditto for me and History coursework. After knowing what goes into the writing of a historical book, I cant stomach it anymore. The politics and the bull**** is just amazing, and the end product is so polished and "authoritative" that the general public has no freaking idea.

Quote

Dropped both the course and the major in under two weeks and switched to advertising and PR, which actually seemed like the more honest career with more integrity after learning the truth about "News."    

lol, at least they're up front about the bull****, yea. Less hypocrisy, i agree.

Quote

The thing that I appreciate most about Emerson is what I learned about the Mass Media as a whole and the way communication is so affected by the relationship between the message and the messenger.  I realize that my perception of the world would not likely be the same had I not attended Emerson.  Now that I think of it, too, it actually helps me understand why the country is so out of whack considering that most people did NOT get that sort of information from the schools they attended.

exact same thing can be said about academic history programs.

Quote

My mom didn't really value the idea of education for the sake of itself, but she wanted me to attend college so that I could "get a job."  If I had known that when I was applying to schools, I would have not even bothered until I had some Idea of what kind of job I wanted to get, possibly even saved her $100,000 in tuition in the process.  I just assumed it was expected of me, the same way that graduation from high school was.   I don't know if a degree in "Communication Studies" is useful for a damn thing as far as making me more employable, but I will say that the practical knowledge if afforded me is something I consider invaluable now.  

same here. i'm doing the degree for my own education, not because i expect a job out of it. Which, ironically, allows me to have more personal integrity as I go thru the program, and while so many of my colleagues have to sell their soul and their intellectual integrity to scramble to get a job in the field.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Fri, 12 November 2010, 14:08:43
Mike Gravel produced the best two pieces of political ANYTHING in the past 20 years.



Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 12 November 2010, 17:14:10
Quote from: wellington1869;243226
lol, i'm a huge fan of joad cressbeckler! :) I keep hoping the onion gives him his own regular show already.
(saw him on a different ad the other day, for a make-your-own business cards site.)


fs=1&hl=en_US">fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385">[/youtube]

fs=1&hl=en_US">fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385">[/youtube]



Hey. I'd vote for Joad Cressbeckler. Since he's a gold prospector, maybe he'll dig up some gold to help pay off the deficits!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sun, 14 November 2010, 09:48:25
Quote from: wellington1869;242068
i mean any news. I read about current events in snippets online, like the AP ticker on yahoo or something,, but thats about it.

i find more than ever that all the news does is make me depressed or angry and is presented in a manner that is intended to do so.  so i'm not going to be the newsreader's ***** anymore.


I try to tell that to my relatives and to my friends, that they should take what is being said on the news with a grain of salt, because these "news sellers" need to create sensation, otherwise their "news" would be boring, and no one will be interested. For example, we will never see something like: "Here's a small town in Canada. As you can see, it's business as usual, nothing extraordinary is happening today."

What I find more annoying is that some people believe everything they see on the internet. Just because it's on the internet does not mean that it is 100% true.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Sun, 14 November 2010, 10:50:33
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;246663
Just because it's on the internet does not mean that it is 100% true.
What about NATURE'S 4 CORNER HARMONIC SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE (http://www.timecube.com/)?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Mon, 15 November 2010, 00:37:31
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;246663
I try to tell that to my relatives and to my friends, that they should take what is being said on the news with a grain of salt, because these "news sellers" need to create sensation, otherwise their "news" would be boring, and no one will be interested. For example, we will never see something like: "Here's a small town in Canada. As you can see, it's business as usual, nothing extraordinary is happening today."

What I find more annoying is that some people believe everything they see on the internet. Just because it's on the internet does not mean that it is 100% true.

News media pretty much created the swine flu, which was so rampant and detrimental to the pork industry they lobbied the media to call it H1N1. And in the end? nothing.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Spinifex on Mon, 15 November 2010, 02:27:50
You might be interested in this (http://way2bliss.com/media-fast-lesson.php).  

The reasoning is this (http://way2bliss.com/value-of-tv.php).  The value of TV is relatively limited.  The main purpose of TV, is to generate income for the Television broadcaster, disregarding public service television.  The way this is achieved is YOUR ATTENTION is SOLD to advertisers.  

Yes.  You have your sorry ass hocked to advertisers the more you sit in front of the idiot box.  I use to work in the industry.  It is pathetic.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 15 November 2010, 07:34:53
Quote from: Spinifex;246920
 The way this is achieved is YOUR ATTENTION is SOLD to advertisers.  


thats basically it. As noam chomsky put it, they're in the business of selling you to advertizers. Everything else -- news value, informational value, etc -- is incidental.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 15 November 2010, 10:03:10
Quote from: ripster;246963
In the end you are a lump of biological cells bonded by chemistry for the sole purpose of consuming resources for driving the economy.

Get over it.

When Katie Couric puts on glasses I think she gets even Hawter.
Show Image
(http://swannellc.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/img-article-kurtz-couric_142300686009.jpg?w=387&h=302)


didnt she put video of her rectal exam online or something? (to promote awareness of annual check ups for rectal cancer). Pretty sure she did, and yea i dont think it was very 'hawt', lol!  Now every time i see her all i can think of is a colonoscopy.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 15 November 2010, 11:55:01
Quote from: ripster;246998
Not funny dude.  Her husband died of colon cancer and she's been very vocal for the cause.

In fact she went on the next day and did the news after her husband died.


thats great and all, but dude, i did not need to see her rectum. just saying.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 15 November 2010, 12:44:11
I guess it depends if you live in a ****-hole or not.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: quadibloc on Mon, 15 November 2010, 14:18:35
Quote from: Lanx;246907
News media pretty much created the swine flu, which was so rampant and detrimental to the pork industry they lobbied the media to call it H1N1. And in the end? nothing.
Usually, even when an influenza epidemic is so severe that many people die, they're usually the ill and elderly.

This time? Adults in their prime of life, hale and hearty, died from the swine flu in large numbers in Mexico City.

Does that mean that if people hadn't shown up to take their shots, thanks to the media raising awareness, there would have been a catastrophe? No, since the shots didn't even become available in time to do more than protect against the third wave of the epidemic. Instead, it turned out, luckily for everyone, that the only reason that particular flu virus was so deadly in Mexico was that peoples' immune systems were compromised... by low levels of arsenic in the drinking water there.

But does that guarantee we'll be as lucky next time? If a new flu virus is knocking over healthy young adults, it makes sense to react quickly and strongly. Overreacting ten times in a row... is way better than missing the time when hundreds of thousands of people are killed needlessly because we did nothing.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Mon, 15 November 2010, 14:35:39
The media can overreact and generate stories out of nothing (remember the Summer of the Shark?), but I don't think this is a case of that happening. The 1918 flu killed 3% of the world population. If there's even a small chance of pandemic flu, the media SHOULD go ape**** on the story.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 15 November 2010, 15:03:03
Quote from: ripster;247042
My wife made me look at the inside of Dr. Oz's colon.

i'd like to know what Dr. Oz was doing inside your house.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 15 November 2010, 16:33:31
Quote from: ripster;247136

Welly, you ever been in a Turkish prison?  I have and you don't want to drop the soap.


you might get a colonoscopy?

fs=1&hl=en_US">fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385">[/youtube]
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Mon, 15 November 2010, 17:26:05
link is very much on topic.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20101115/pl_yblog_theticket/almost-5-million-people-watched-sarah-palins-alaska
5million viewers? biggest premiere for TLC? that's a lot of GOP looking at a milf.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 15 November 2010, 19:25:48
Quote from: Lanx;247243
link is very much on topic.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20101115/pl_yblog_theticket/almost-5-million-people-watched-sarah-palins-alaska
5million viewers? biggest premiere for TLC? that's a lot of GOP looking at a milf.


its the same reason people slow down to watch a car wreck... (or glenn beck)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 15 November 2010, 20:41:10
Quote from: wellington1869
its the same reason people slow down to watch a car wreck... (or glenn beck)


You call Glenn Beck a carwreck? You seem to have a different definition of carwreck than me:

(http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/wp-content/gallery/random/pelosi3.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Mon, 15 November 2010, 21:51:16
Glen beck is a mormon, something he decided to become while sitting at the dinner table with his wife and basically saying "ok what religion do we want to be a part of?"
i don't know much about mormons, i know i live in mormon ville, i have mormon churches and mormon specific banks all around and the ppl look normal enough. But i base all my bias on anything i learn from south park.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s07e12-all-about-the-mormons
and a little wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon

so yea if trainwreck means that beck is bat**** crazy, then i'm in agreement.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 15 November 2010, 22:46:17
While I personally think Mormonism is a bit strange, calling someone a carwreck for their religious beliefs is pretty dumb. Anyway, if Glenn Beck is a carwreck, he's laughing about it all the way to the bizank.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 15 November 2010, 23:08:20
Quote from: keyboardlover;247352
While I personally think Mormonism is a bit strange, calling someone a carwreck for their religious beliefs is pretty dumb.


no its not. Jihadis are car wrecks. So is glenn beck.

Quote

Anyway, if Glenn Beck is a carwreck, he's laughing about it all the way to the bizank.


yes, lunatic religious folk usually do pretty well for themselves. For a while anyway.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Tue, 16 November 2010, 07:37:14
The southpark episode "all about mormons" says all there is to know about mormons. I have never met one, living in central Europe and such, but I don't need to have met a scientologist either to know that their "religion" is based on a book written by a failed Sci-Fi writer who used to have sex with little boys and what they are talking about is just weird and stupid.

Poor people who are so messed up in their heads that they turn to something like this.

I pity the fool, so does Mr. T.
(http://images.tvrage.com/shows/8/7991.jpg)

/Edit
now that the thread has slowly swung towards religion can we just skip this step and get to talking about nazis?
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 16 November 2010, 07:49:09
Glen Wreck?  Conservatives are paranoid.  Look it up.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 16 November 2010, 09:28:53
so sad for nazi's they used to be the most feared and hated group of ppl 50 odd years ago. Now they are just the de-factor bad guys when creative ppl stop being creative.
1. FPS games
"who do we fight? the taliban!!!" "dude too soon" "the vietcong!!!" "dude too racist" "f-it we'll fight nazi's again!" "safe bet!"
2. indiana jones 4 *sad face*
3. when ppl make protest signs and say that the first black president is just like Hitler... um lol wtf? crazy GOP ppl are crazy
or crazy Tea party ppl are crazy
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Tue, 16 November 2010, 10:00:54
When will they realize that these days it is time to fight the space nazis not just old regular nazis?


Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 16 November 2010, 11:17:20
i've been seeing scientology ads on tv.  Guess they finally launched some kind of PR campaign to counter all the, er, negative publicity.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 16 November 2010, 12:16:10
Interesting article today:
Olbermann, O'Reilly and the death of real news (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/12/AR2010111202857.html)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 16 November 2010, 13:50:02
I always get a good laugh when people are talking to me about how being against radical Islam is "racist". But then I ask them about how they felt about the Holocaust and they talk all about how Anti-Semitism is so bad.

Doesn't it stink talking politics with idiots?

P. S.: If you don't understand this then you should do some research on who's into annihilating Judaism and Israel in the Middle East.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 16 November 2010, 13:53:04
Quote from: microsoft windows;247631
I always get a good laugh when people are talking to me about how being against radical Islam is "racist". But then I ask them about how they felt about the Holocaust and they talk all about how Anti-Semitism is so bad.

Doesn't it stink talking politics with idiots?


Yes. Glenn Beck wrote a book (http://www.amazon.com/Arguing-Idiots-Small-Minds-Government/dp/1416595015) about it:

(http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/arguing_with_idiots.jpg)

A New York Times Bestseller might I add...
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 16 November 2010, 13:55:55
Well, there's both conservatives and liberals who know what they're talking about. And there are also idiots on both sides (More liberals these days since that's where the younger audience in the US is currently leaning).

I definitely would not call Glenn Beck an idiot though. Even if you don't agree with his political view point, I would recommend reading about the "Restoring Honor" rally he and a few others hosted in Washington, D. C. a few months ago.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 16 November 2010, 14:00:54
Quote from: microsoft windows

I definitely would not call Glenn Beck an idiot though. Even if you don't agree with his political view point, I would recommend reading about the "Restoring Honor" rally he and a few others hosted in Washington, D. C. a few months ago.


I'm pretty sure Glenn Beck wrote that book about Welly.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: RoboKrikit on Tue, 16 November 2010, 17:00:12
Fox News has Fair and Balanced headlines.

(http://i.imgur.com/779Vw.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 16 November 2010, 19:58:24
It's kind of funny how he said that Sitting Bull "healed broken hearts". I'd hate to get a dose of his medicine just like the army did at Custer's Last Stand.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 16 November 2010, 20:38:48
I think 'sitting bull' is a great name.

if i were born native american i'd have been called 'watches too much tv'.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 16 November 2010, 20:51:09
Quote from: ripster;247739
Today I Learned that George Bush listens to Kanye West and that he doesn't like black people.

"Conway West"
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 16 November 2010, 21:15:37
Quote from: wellington1869;247845
I think 'sitting bull' is a great name.

if i were born native american i'd have been called 'watches too much tv'.


EIBM/MW would be '****ting Bull' ...
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 16 November 2010, 21:48:10
Quote from: instantkamera;247869
EIBM/MW would be '****ting Bull' ...


thats pretty funny ;)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 16 November 2010, 22:42:45
Someone mentioned Mike Gravel a few pages back.


I wish to god he had gotten farther. He was one of maybe two presidential candidates that, if they were in front of me and I was handed a gun, he was one of a small handful that I would not have shot for the sake of humanity.

He isn't a 100% match with my views, but maybe 70%, while everyone else was a bunch of puffed up racketeers playing to the lowest common denominator, who jived with my views maybe 20%.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 16 November 2010, 23:37:12
[whoops. moved post to the rant thread.]
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: wincabfail on Wed, 17 November 2010, 08:55:18
I personally don't watch the news thanks to the people who just squander their money. Makes me feel real bad at how unfair the world is.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 17 November 2010, 11:07:13
On another semi related note,
bristol palin on dancing with the stars is now in the finals, apparently the GOP centric websites asked ppl to vote for her even if they don't watch dancing with the stars.

my understanding is the ppl who actually like DWTS are up in arms cuz palin is really really bad at dancing but america voting keeps her safe and all the way to the finals. i see DWTS nerd rage inc.

this is of course because the GOP are being told to vote and they do it so well like the sheep they are!
(which actually sounds bad since i actually am a registered GOP)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 17 November 2010, 13:18:48
Quote from: ripster;248070
Boy, I had to go downstairs last night my wife was so pissed.

Republicans are good sheep.  Sheep don't like change.  Change you can believe in.

For someone who complains about troll baiting, you sure do a hell of a lot of it yourself.

Wait, so does that mean Democrats are hypocrites? That can't be...Obama's not a hypocrite!

...oh wait...
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 17 November 2010, 13:23:09
Quote from: wellington1869;247845
I think 'sitting bull' is a great name.

if i were born native american i'd have been called 'watches too much tv'.

Nah. That name "Sitting Bull"'s a bunch of bull.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Fwiffo on Wed, 17 November 2010, 13:30:47
(http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/successful-troll-is-successful.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 17 November 2010, 13:39:25
Obama is a physical representation of a hypocrite, black man in the oval office, i expected him to be all gangsta and go "ok this how we do this bit## up in here". But no we basically get the guy who took a beating over and over and over and obama says "can't we all just get along"(with this bipartisan BS)(wrong black guy to take after, he should be taking after OJ! he did his thang and 10 years after he even had the balls to write a book about how he woulda really killed his wife).
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 17 November 2010, 13:41:59
Quote from: Lanx
i expected him to be all gangsta and go "ok this how we do this bit## up in here".


LOL - I would love to see that in a televised presidential address!
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 17 November 2010, 14:50:32
Quote from: ripster

But at the House party don't expect Boehner to have a boner over Pelosi.   All those tanning booth sessions means he can't get it up anymore.


And all Pelosi's facial surgeries means...

...well I'll let your imaginations process that one ;)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 17 November 2010, 14:50:44
Quote from: ripster;248169
For those of you that don't follow the news Pelosi and Boehner were elected House party leaders.

But at the House party don't expect Boehner to have a boner over Pelosi.   All those tanning booth sessions means he can't get it up anymore.


(http://www.dietsinreview.com/diet_column/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/california-raisins.jpg)
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: zefrer on Wed, 17 November 2010, 17:04:23
Lol, Boner.
Title: i dont watch the news anymore
Post by: Spinifex on Sun, 21 November 2010, 23:49:49
Quote from: ripster;246963
In the end you are a lump of biological cells bonded by chemistry for the sole purpose of consuming resources for driving the economy.

Get over it.

When Katie Couric puts on glasses I think she gets even Hawter.
Show Image
(http://swannellc.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/img-article-kurtz-couric_142300686009.jpg?w=387&h=302)


Yes she does ...

I am not here to consume resources.  I am here to enjoy my new Filco 10Keyless cherry browns.