Print Page - Should Numpad be in the Base kit?

geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: dvorcol on Sun, 25 May 2025, 22:30:49

Title: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: dvorcol on Sun, 25 May 2025, 22:30:49

Full Base kit vs TKL + Numpad

(https://i.postimg.cc/08YMkCS3/GH-Title-r3.png)

Assuming overall contents don't change, a TKL Base kit is cheaper than a Full Base kit, and a Full Base kit is cheaper than a TKL Base kit + Numpad kit. One group of buyers doesn't want numpad support, the other group requires it. Which group should pay more so the other pays less? I think there's no universal answer, but looking at numbers from past GBs adds some perspective.

Numpad take rates

Jamon was the first GMK set I saw with a separate Numpad kit. Wondering how popular the Numpad is, I started keeping track of Numpad take rate.

(https://i.postimg.cc/NgsfZkMZ/Numpad-Take-Rate200926.png)

Numpad take rates for SA and KAT group buys:
(https://i.postimg.cc/KbVjHW6g/SA-numpad-take-rates-251110.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gGJCX3pC/KAT-Numpad-take-rates-250701.png)

It's interesting that Numpad take rate varies widely between sets. One big factor is probably the set's theme. For example, almost 80% of DSA Scientific buyers purchased a Numpad kit. Maybe science and numbers are related...

Cost comparison

Last year I summarized prices and take rates for some DCS and KKB sets. The raw numbers are to the best of my knowledge accurate. Anything regarding averages should be taken with a grain of salt. Or perhaps a cup, or a bag.

Kit content details beyond Full vs TKL are not considered at all. Zero, zilch, zip, nada, nothing. In reality, for some sets the TKL kit has more small bars, or novelties, or 40s mods, or UK ISO, etc. that would bloat a Full Base kit. For other sets this is not the case. Some Numpad kits have additional keys that don't fit in a Full Base kit, but others are bare-bones. And some Full kits are fuller than others. I'm ignoring a lot of other set-to-set variables too: number of stock and custom colors, MOQs, sales margins, GB dates, etc.

DCS sets

(https://i.postimg.cc/69xbQzQt/DCS-TKL-vs-Full-base-240619b.png)

Averaging kit prices from 14 DCS sets (7 Full Base, 7 TKL + Numpad) yields:
$124 Full Base
$121 TKL Base = $3 less than Full
$30 Numpad
$151 TKL + Numpad = $27 more than Full Base

So with split kits, a Numpad user paid about 9 times what a TKL user saved.

I only have order numbers for 10 of these sets:
(https://i.postimg.cc/PXrgtK6N/DCS-GB-Sales-240619b.png)

The average Numpad take rate for 5 DCS sets was 30%. Is it best to have 30% of customers pay $27 more so 70% pay $3 less?

KKB sets

(https://i.postimg.cc/HYyQ71vN/KKB-TKL-vs-Full-base-240611b.png)

Averaging kit prices from 17 KKB sets (7 Full Base, 10 TKL + Numpad) yields:
$96 Full Base
$92 TKL Base = $4 less than Full Base
$20 Numpad
$112 TKL + Numpad = $16 more than Full Base

So with split kits, a Numpad user paid about 4 times what a TKL user saved.

I only have order numbers for 7 of these sets:
(https://i.postimg.cc/69R3r6wC/KKB-GB-Sales-241015.png)

The average Numpad take rate for 2 KKB sets was 23%. Is it best to have 23% of customers pay $16 more so 77% pay $4 less?

Title: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: LightningXI on Mon, 26 May 2025, 00:41:18

Really interesting data. Given this and primarily personal belief, I'm in the camp that it's worthwhile to keep full base kits to become a standard that has general compatibility that is as expansive as possible and does include the numpad.

I can't see the few bucks of saving by TKL or smaller users being worth of numpad users taking such a big hit monetarily.

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: dvorcol on Mon, 26 May 2025, 18:20:28

I use the Numpad, but I'd like to think this is an unbiased summary of actual numbers.

For some manufactures, separate kits might make sense. Perhaps KAT/KAM with Keyreative's original pricing & MOQ methodology, for example. Unfortunately, none of those sets offered Full Base so there's no way to check. It doesn't matter now anyway because Keyreative has overhauled their pricing methodology.

I've always wondered how IC survey results compare to actual orders once the GB ends. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: Trackpoint on Wed, 28 May 2025, 18:26:08

Interesting, I would have thought that there would be a greater difference between the TKL and full kits. I rarely use a numpad, but for a few more bucks it seems worthwhile to include them. I do wonder though if low-MOQ sets gravitate towards TKL kits (and obviously, as you noted, there are way more variables as well that weren't taken into account).

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: dvorcol on Mon, 10 November 2025, 19:55:09

Just added take rate graphs for SA and KAT profiles.

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: Zzzzhao on Mon, 10 November 2025, 22:38:50

Wow if the price difference between bundled full kit and tkl is this low, I would say most people who don't anticipate using a numpad would be glad to pay a bit more to have everything.

PS. I was very sad that the fleuriste set's numpad kit did not reach moq so there's that.

Sent from my A059 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: Hugo_mungus on Tue, 11 November 2025, 00:24:08

This is a fun preliminary review of prices, and great info for a question I’ve wondered myself!

Quote from: dvorcol on Sun, 25 May 2025, 22:30:49

I'm ignoring a lot of other set-to-set variables too: number of stock and custom colors, MOQs, sales margins, GB dates, etc.

With that said “adding the numpad would only cost $3” is probably not the slam-dunk conclusion that someone skimming this might think it is because of those quoted reasons. Still good food for thought

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: dvorcol on Tue, 11 November 2025, 01:01:47

Quote from: Zzzzhao on Mon, 10 November 2025, 22:38:50

PS. I was very sad that the GMK Fleuriste (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116070) set's numpad kit did not reach moq so there's that.

Yeah, that's no fun. But it's hard to justify paying $47 for a numpad kit. The orders-only take rate was less than 12%

(https://i.postimg.cc/kJ65cgH1/05-numpad-o-G2Re-NC.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LH8z5THs/GMKfleuriste-Orders220227fin-YNext.png)

GMK Yugo (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103263) is the only other set I remember canceling it's numpad (Yugo 55). It was $50. Even still, the orders-only take rate was about 28%.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Q84pBCTm/02b-Numpad-CANCELED-ek-W4SBc.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vY5LhtQf/GMKyugo-Status200111fin-YNext.png)

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: ber7 on Tue, 11 November 2025, 08:29:08

I'm totally fine with 3% to 5% or even 10% increased prices for a Full Base Kit although I'm mostly using TKL layouts. Paying 40 to 50 bucks just for numpad kits is pain af.

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: zslane on Tue, 11 November 2025, 11:13:05

Most mech keyboard enthusiasts don't use numpads, so it is rarely worth it to add them to keycap sets these days. I always buy numpad kits because I'm a full-size kbd user, but I acknowledge that I'm something of a dinosaur in that respect, and while I'm willing to pay a premium to get a numpad kit for a set I really like, I don't expect very many others to do the same.

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: Zzzzhao on Fri, 14 November 2025, 21:34:03

Quote from: dvorcol on Tue, 11 November 2025, 01:01:47

Quote from: Zzzzhao on Mon, 10 November 2025, 22:38:50
PS. I was very sad that the GMK Fleuriste (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116070) set's numpad kit did not reach moq so there's that.

Yeah, that's no fun. But it's hard to justify paying $47 for a numpad kit. The orders-only take rate was less than 12%

Show Image
(https://i.postimg.cc/kJ65cgH1/05-numpad-o-G2Re-NC.png)

Show Image
(https://i.postimg.cc/LH8z5THs/GMKfleuriste-Orders220227fin-YNext.png)

GMK Yugo (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103263) is the only other set I remember canceling it's numpad (Yugo 55). It was $50. Even still, the orders-only take rate was about 28%.

Show Image
(https://i.postimg.cc/Q84pBCTm/02b-Numpad-CANCELED-ek-W4SBc.png)

Show Image
(https://i.postimg.cc/vY5LhtQf/GMKyugo-Status200111fin-YNext.png)

Interesting. In fact. I have always wondered what "extras" mean. Are extras orders from vendors who will sell then as in stock later? If that is the case I do understand why they don't want numpads, as they will only be ordering extras to secure moq (at least for the two sets Fleuriste and Yugo) and wouldn't want to have leftovers.

In that case, instead of saying that the numpad kits got cancelled, we can say that the base kit got saved by extras!

Sent from my A059 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: villagepillage on Sun, 23 November 2025, 05:36:40

Yes

Title: Re: Should Numpad be in the Base kit?
Post by: SleepyMoth on Sat, 29 November 2025, 10:43:48

I'm team numpad. I use it, and I've run into many situations where I like a keycap set, only for the numpad to be sold out.