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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: spremino on Sun, 04 January 2026, 08:10:09
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From a functionality point of view, a nav-less layout keeps all keys. The numpad can already act as a navigation block, but the navigation block cannot replace the numpad.
The only explanations that come to my mind are that TKL is easier to manufacture as a cut-down full-size board, or that many users simply prefer a dedicated navigation cluster. I am curious what other reasons people see, thank you.
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Unfortunately, it is rare that programs support key combinations with modifier keys on the numpad.
So you can't always select text and/or jump to next/previous word or top/bottom of document using the numpad the same way as with the dedicated arrow keys.
I've learned that the space around the inverse-T cluster matters for people. it helps people locate it.
Even some 65% and 75% layout keyboards have space around the arrow keys for that reason.
The inverse-T is IMHO superior ergonomically to the cross-layout embedded in the numpad. When you rest your fingers on the cluster, the middle finger — being longer — has its natural resting position in-between the Up and Down arrow keys, with equal distance to both. The numpad could be improved if the Numpad-5 key was an additional Down key, but I've never seen support for that.
I have become accustomed to having Home/End/PgUp/PgDn above the cursor keys. I use them all the time for editing text and code and wouldn't want to be without them.
I have a couple keyboards where the nav cluster above the cursor keys are 2×2 or 2×3, and the entire keyboard being one column less wide than a typical TKL, and I have had no problem going between that and a TKL.
There are lots of 65% and 75% keyboards that don't even include the full for nav keys, but instead have Ins and Del, or Del and PageUp, or PageUp/PageDown. Many even lack a Del key. I would never buy such a keyboard.
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Many even lack a Del key. I would never buy such a keyboard.
Hear, hear. "Delete" is one of the most often-used keys by my right hand. Do I make a lot of mistakes? Maybe.
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BTW. There have been a couple keyboards which have overlaid inverse-T arrow keys and nav keys on top of a numeric keypad.
One of them was the Cooler Master "CM Storm Quickfire TK" / "MasterKeys Pro M" from 2012.
[attachimg=1]
(Image from the Deskthority Wiki. Public Domain)
Another was the Plum 96, which had the 6-key cluster one row up and four keys above the numpad on the function key row.
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Yes. The "Nav. Cluster" is ergonomically superior.
I can use the numpad for the same functions, but the Nav. Cluster is faster and easier.
I don't buy anything without a Nav. Cluster, unless I am looking for something very compact. That's why I have TKLs. I have a 70% board, but I find myself wanting the F-row.
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i felt the same for quite a while. but a few years ago i bought a KBD67 by accident.. (meant to buy a Tiger Lite ..... yes, i am stupid). i was disappointed at first, but i gave it a try, using layers of course, and while the KBD67 (at least my unit) is utter garbage, i have never looked back. the biggest keyboard i have used on a daily basis since then is the cycle7.
but as already mentioned, i heavily rely on layers, otherwise i would need a TKL.
(i use caps lock and the key to the right of space as layer shifts.)
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For me, I can't live without the directional keys. But the numpad can be easily replaced by the number row.
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People just hate numpad in the hobby generally, so they would rather have a large keyboard without a numpad, than a compact one with numpad.
(https://i.redd.it/e7n3dpuxsfnb1.jpg)