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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: sixty on Wed, 10 November 2010, 12:03:34

Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: sixty on Wed, 10 November 2010, 12:03:34: Its that time again. The guys over at OTD came up with yet another new custom keyboard. This one is not from the 356 series, but rather a brand new model. It looks very promising and is also cost effective (at least compared to the previous custom runs).

From what my contact has told me they will be eventually selling these at eBay too at some point in 2011.

All pictures are taken from 응삼 on OTD. Check the original post over there. (http://www.otd.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=album&wr_id=35982&page=3)

Features:
* Full CNC carved metal case
* Sanded, anodized look
* Full N-Key over PS2
* Freely re-programmable layout via firmware
* "Budget" price of 299,999 WON (~269 USD)
* Available with MX Black, MX Blue, MX Brown or MX Clear switches
* Various color combinations possible for each part (parts are changeable, see pics)
* Double Shot keycaps included (the dummy in the pics shows Cherry Corp ones, real ones not yet delivered, will likely be SP)
* Soldering and assembly not included
* Tons of customization options due to the "open" and accessible design of the case and construction

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_332d3e9a_DCS_9165.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_e941523e_DCS_9173.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_dc1261f1_DCS_9185.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_5c2f5ee6_DCS_9186.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_da66691d_DCS_9190.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_37aa9d47_DCS_9193.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_8e689f9d_DCS_9203.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_52b8a089_DCS_9196.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_75eda24a_DCS_9207.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_bbd46cf5_DCS_9210.jpg)
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 10 November 2010, 12:06:10: Love the idea, but the price kills it for me. I'd rather have a Realforce.
Also I'm not a big fan of legs that you can't collapse.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: elbowglue on Wed, 10 November 2010, 12:08:44: Quote from: sixty;245030

* Soldering and assembly not included

And this is why we aren't in the same league as them.

Looks awesome sixty.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 10 November 2010, 12:13:12: Price is a bit much, but some of the features definitely deserve a higher price tag. I'd rather solder it myself anyways, I've seen some bad hand soldering on small runs of anything. So much want!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Wed, 10 November 2010, 12:36:48: 269 USD for a 'board 'o cherries? I'll pass.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 10 November 2010, 13:42:45: Beautiful.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 10 November 2010, 13:53:31: excellent find :D
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: zefrer on Wed, 10 November 2010, 14:19:33: Price is too steep considering you're doing the building yourself. Would love to have one, for half the price..
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: laden3 on Wed, 10 November 2010, 14:43:18: Is there a 356 at the size of a HHKB? or something like that...
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: 002 on Wed, 10 November 2010, 14:56:43: Quote from: NewbieOneKenobi;245057
269 USD for a 'board 'o cherries? I'll pass.

This.

I do like the idea of the metal case and the double-shots but they're going to need to come up with some more compelling reasons than that.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Zen on Wed, 10 November 2010, 15:01:51: Quote
Full CNC carved metal case
[/B]
This ALONE justifies the price-tag !!
You guys got any idea what metal-cases cost ?
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 10 November 2010, 15:19:45: I like!

EDIT: Ouch! I don't like this. Hopefully that ziptied cable soldered directly to PCB is just for the prototype. A keyboard of this caliber should have a usb port and detachable cable.

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105777654_52b8a089_DCS_9196.jpg)
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: nanu on Wed, 10 November 2010, 15:46:01: Do they even include a cable? That's a Filco velcro loop pictured... I thought this was an economical board for the DIY crowd.
Quote from: didjamatic;245135
Ouch! I don't like this. All that effort into an excellent keyboard and they do a cheap piece of crap zipped in cable soldered directly to PCB? Hopefully that's just for the prototype.

It's a feature or lack thereof, for modders. The fun is in the flexibility of the board. Look at all that free space underneath the PCB.

A zip tie looks functionally sufficient IMO. Maybe add some superglue. Who tugs at keyboard cords ever, by accident or otherwise? If you extended the cord long enough, you could keep pulling at the keyboard cord for some time before having to reel it back in. Perhaps color the last 30cm yellow so you know it's time.

See, if I were the type of person experiencing inevitable cord pulls, here's what I'd do:
Mod the USB cord so its 4 wires are all of different length. Solder each onto a header pin, and then wrap that all up in heatshrink tube the same diameter as the outer cord shroud. Then make holes for those pins, and make mating connectors. These connectors will be mechanically decoupled from the destination solder points, anchored to the case (drill some holes for some screws and a corresponding bracket.

It should be possible for a strong enough pull to gracefully detach itself. What are the chances of that though. It's more likely that it'll be slowed down or stopped by friction and a lateral pull (hence why the previous idea of a very long cable, tucked inside is not unreasonable).

Of course, separate this all from the PCB's underside via a sheet or paper, because you expected the cord to be tugged. You don't want those pins touching random solder points. No, scratch the screws-in-case-wall idea, you wanted to make dead lead weight for the bottom anyhow to give it some mass, and to make a keyboard falling of your desk even more tug-a-riffic, so mount it to that instead.

Lots of fun!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: zefrer on Wed, 10 November 2010, 15:58:05: Quote from: Zen;245126

This ALONE justifies the price-tag !!
You guys got any idea what metal-cases cost ?

Good point. Reconsidering.. heh
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: nanu on Wed, 10 November 2010, 16:08:22: Oh brainfart, yeah I meant 4-conductor cable. If pictured is a Filco cable, yea sure any old keyboard's cord will do, if you wanted a built-in strain relief.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: JBert on Wed, 10 November 2010, 16:52:53: Quote from: Zen;245126

This ALONE justifies the price-tag !!
You guys got any idea what metal-cases cost ?
I couldn't care less what the case is made of, as long as it is solid, durable and has a better finish than what you'd do yourself. It's the inside that counts.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 10 November 2010, 18:01:11: i don't understand.
they just give you a bunch of keys,pcb, case and you assemble it yourself?
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: isp on Thu, 11 November 2010, 00:16:29: I'm sure some nice looking boards will come out of this, but I don't have the time or money to throw at this. Good luck to the others!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: WhiteRice on Thu, 11 November 2010, 00:20:05: Awe man wow! Sixty please keep us updated about this :)

Please consider organizing a group purchase :D
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 11 November 2010, 07:05:56: I would love one of these, but I would want to pay someone to put it together for me. As beautiful as it is, I'm pretty lazy.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: chongyixiong on Thu, 11 November 2010, 09:39:00: I don't know why I am so turned on with that red backplate..

I could do soldering (and you could pay me with one of 'em boards) - heck I'll even throw in free shipping for you!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: calavera on Thu, 11 November 2010, 20:46:11: I'll be getting one for sure.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 11 November 2010, 21:04:52: The programmability sounds great, can't wait to try it.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Sam on Thu, 11 November 2010, 21:25:14: Looks very nice. Great job guys.

Quote from: didjamatic;245736
The programmability sounds great, can't wait to try it.

What I find totally amazing is that in these days there are any premium keyboards that don't offer 100% programability. If done properly, it should cost very little extra. For standard or low-cost keyboards, I can understand not having this feature. For a high-end keyboard, the lack of it in my opinion points to complete incompetence in the company's engineering abilities, and I in no way would seriously consider using their products.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: WhiteRice on Thu, 11 November 2010, 22:45:22: sixty, you mentioned that they will be sold on ebay. Will they be available to US buyers?

In case that it has not been addressed would you mind asking?

You seem to be our only man on the inside.

I appreciate your work!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: hoggy on Fri, 12 November 2010, 01:20:32: Quote from: Sam;245747
Looks very nice. Great job guys.

What I find totally amazing is that in these days there are any premium keyboards that don't offer 100% programability. If done properly, it should cost very little extra. For standard or low-cost keyboards, I can understand not having this feature. For a high-end keyboard, the lack of it in my opinion points to complete incompetence in the company's engineering abilities, and I in no way would seriously consider using their products.

Well, diodes cost very little, and we don't see them often enough.

I think it's a bit mean to say that Filco and friends are incompetent just because they don't add this feature. However, it would enhance their boards and encourage me to buy another.

I think the main problem is that people get their boards with the computer, and why would Dell care?
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Sam on Fri, 12 November 2010, 02:08:20: Quote from: hoggy;245825
Well, diodes cost very little, and we don't see them often enough.

I think it's a bit mean to say that Filco and friends are incompetent just because they don't add this feature. However, it would enhance their boards and encourage me to buy another.

I think the main problem is that people get their boards with the computer, and why would Dell care?

I work in the electronics industry and manage a team of engineers who design this kind of stuff everyday. I know from personal experience that there's an awful lot of incompetent engineers working in many of the smaller firms as I unfortunately end up having to deal with them quite frequently. Electronics-wise, it takes no creativity to make a standard keyboard these days. You just take a bunch of off-the-shelf components and slap them together and you have a working board. Note, I'm talking specifically about the electronics - hardware/firmware if any, not the mechanical design.

In the case of the Filco, I don't own one, nor have I ever seen one, so don't know if they just used off-the-shelf components or designed something unique. If they didn't design something themselves, then they didn't utilize any true design engineers. Being there are no engineer(s), there's no way to qualify them.

If they did design some of the electronics themselves, then I see absolutely no reason for not putting in a programmable keyboard controller for a board selling for that kind of money. The trade-off between a slightly more expensive controller with flash memory vs. one without would be well worth it in attracting many more customers. In fact, I would be surprised if the controller didn't have flash memory, regardless. These days it's very uncommon to design electronics that don't have flash memory except for extremely high volume and well proven designs where it's not needed. For unproven designs and low volume, it's much more expensive and dangerous to design systems which have no upgrade ability. I know this from first-hand experience, working with a company who nearly went bankrupt due to deciding to save a few pennies on the microcontroller and go with a masked version instead of a flash version. They ended up eating hundreds of thousands of dollars in worthless fully assembled PCBs because of a simple bug in the firmware.

Even if you design something perfect for today's market, you have no guarantee that something won't change tomorrow with the industry, where some new OS design or whatever requires that you change the firmware. If you're one of the big boys and selling huge quantities of keyboards, you can probably get away with modifying your controller and doing a new masked version of it as the need to adapt comes along. Then if someone needs the new version, they need to buy a new keyboard. If you're a small guy, it just doesn't make sense to keep updating your controller with masked versions. The cost in testing and for the large MOQ is simply too great.

So it is my opinion that if they designed their own controller, and they're not selling hundreds of thousands of units, and spend a whole lot of time in testing, the smart thing to do would be to use a flash-based controller. If they already have a flash-based controller, then adding a programmable feature should cost nothing more in material costs. It's only a matter of having a competent firmware engineer who can design such a system, and a competent PC applications/driver software engineer to design the PC-side software to allow the firmware to be updated. Thus, I stand by my conclusion that the absence of this feature indicates incompetent engineers involved in the design (if they did in fact do their own design). Either that or incompetent management who didn't realize and utilize their engineer's abilities.

Note all of this assumes new stuff being designed today with the economics of electronics manufacturing as it presently stands. I'm not at all talking about electronics designed back when flash memory was very expensive, or before the existence of flash memory.

Edit: I just wanted to add that by incompetence, I'm referring to the ability to design effective full-featured flash memory firmware. Lots of engineers are competent in old-school design, but when trying to make the jump over to the new way of designing electronics, they simply don't have the right stuff.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: woody on Fri, 12 November 2010, 03:31:16: Quote from: Sam;245828
In the case of the Filco, I don't own one, nor have I ever seen one, so don't know if they just used off-the-shelf components or designed something unique.

Holtek.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: sixty on Fri, 12 November 2010, 04:16:39: Please keep in mind that these keyboards are "hand" made by another group of keyboard enthusiasts, so the entire talk about the industry kinda does not apply. The custom keyboards on OTD have been semi-open source minded. You can download CAD files and other source files for the PCB and other construction parts for some of their past custom runs. From what I know this keyboard will be limited to a total of 300 units.

@WhiteRice: From what I heard so far there are plans to sell them on eBay at some point to international customers, not yet though. I can't get on MSN right now to ask my contact for more information, since my DSL is down and my stolen wireless does not let me connect to MSN.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 12 November 2010, 05:14:29: Quote from: Sam;245828

Edit: I just wanted to add that by incompetence, I'm referring to the ability to design effective full-featured flash memory firmware. Lots of engineers are competent in old-school design, but when trying to make the jump over to the new way of designing electronics, they simply don't have the right stuff.

Can you elaborate a little bit more? this sounds interesting!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Sam on Fri, 12 November 2010, 07:22:15: Quote from: Lanx;245850
Can you elaborate a little bit more? this sounds interesting!

[Note: very long and technical reply for Lanx or others interested. If you're not into long technical replies, please skip.]

Sure, I'd be glad to. The majority of firmware engineers (I'd say about 95% based on my own experience) do not know or care how to properly design firmware for working on flash memory. Even though they might be an experienced firmware engineer, and write very good code, they just somehow do not give proper thought to all that's involved in making the system work to it's full potential on flash memory.

Whether the code is running off of flash, EEPROM, EPROM, hard drive, or whatever, the basic code is the same. However, each storage technology has it's quirks which need to be addressed if writing to the storage medium, or updating firmware. A hard disc with a proper driver and OS is pretty easy. You just read/write/erase and don't need to do much else. Updating involves perhaps making a backup of the existing files and copying new files. Flash memory, in it's basic form, without an OS or driver (which would typically be the case for small embedded microcontrollers such as a keyboard), cannot simply use the read/write/erase that you would on a typical system with a hard disc.

First of all, flash memory size is probably very limited. So you might not be able to make a backup of the existing firmware before overwriting it with the new firmware. With ever declining prices of flash memory though, this is becoming more and more possible. So if possible, you need to have an algorithm which downloads the new firmware into a separate portion of flash memory, then verify it is correct, then finally write a code into flash memory to tell the bootloader to use the new verified firmware rather than the old firmware. If you don't have enough flash memory for two versions of the firmware, then you need to have a bootloader which is standalone (and typically which never gets updated), which can download new firmware in case the system gets reset or has some sort of a problem while downloading. This is pretty basic, but still some firmware engineers mess up here and design a system which isn't foolproof and allows the user to end up bricking their device by messing up during downloading new firmware. Basically, if you're going to design on flash, you must at a minimum make the system totally idiot proof. Under no circumstances should the firmware ever allow a user to be able to brick their device while upgrading, with the exception of someone who tries to circumvent the normal download process.

Beyond the firmware and updating it, you also have to consider data storage, and design an algorithm that takes into consideration the nature of flash. Flash memory has a limited number of times it can be erased and rewritten. Almost all firmware engineers I've come across totally fail to design the system with this in mind. Perhaps not so applicable to a keyboard controller, but very applicable in many other systems, is using the flash memory as a "last memory" storage device. For example, if you were designing a TV set where a microcontroller kept track of the last channel being watched, and power was cut to the microcontroller each time the TV was powered off, you'd want to save the currently viewed channel to flash memory whenever it was changed. So the typical firmware engineer that I've run across would code it to simply use a given block of flash memory to save the last channel number (and any other last memory or other settings), and if the user changes the channel, the system would erase that block and the write over the erased block with new information. This is a completely wrong approach. First, if the user is rapidly changing channels, you don't need to be saving to flash memory on each and every channel change. You set the last memory update routine up on a timer and if no changes have been made for some period of time (maybe a few seconds), then you write the changes. But you can't erase the existing block, because that would mean you'd lose all your settings if power was cut before you could save the new block. So most firmware engineers, if realizing this pitfall and attempting to overcome it, would simply write to a new block, then after successful completion would erase the old block and have the system be able to determine which of the two blocks contains information. That's fine, but if someone is just changing the channel, you're erasing and writing a new block each time the channel is changed (with respect to the timer function already mentioned). So back to the nature of flash memory with a limited number of times it can be erased and rewritten. This sort of an algorithm will greatly reduce the life of the device if it's frequently erasing and writing new blocks. If the flash device is rated at a million erases, it might be fine for just channel changes. If it's rated at 100,000 erases and the system updates flash for many reasons beyond just channel changes, and does so very frequently, the system will eventually fail simply because the flash memory was overused. So the best solution is to design an algorithm whereby records are stored inside a block of flash memory, and when the system is reset, it searches the block to find the last valid record and uses that. In addition, a minimum of two blocks are needed, for the case when one block is full but the new information must first be written before the old block is erased. Using this technique, a block of flash memory is never erased until after it is full, which could mean in some cases the amount of flash memory erasing required for a small amount of data stored inside a much larger flash memory block can be reduced to a small fraction of what it would without using this technique. Whatever technique is decided on, one must crunch the numbers and figure out what is the maximum number of erases that will happen over the product's expected lifetime when used in a normal manner, and to verify that this number is well within the flash memory device spec.

When writing all data, the firmware engineer must consider that the device might be powered off at any point, and partial saves might happen. Thus whenever saving data, the data itself must first be saved and confirmed, and finally a checksum of that must be written. Then when the data is read, it must verify the checksum. If the checksum is invalid, the data must be considered invalid. Of course this is all done automatically on a hard disc. In firmware though, you either need to find a well-tested library compatible with your device, or do it yourself.

Typical errors (bugs) in firmware are to be expected. It's the nature of the beast. All but the simplest of software will have some bugs. Thorough testing should be done before release so that the product is able to operate error free by the vast majority of users. But general bugs are easy to correct via downloading new firmware, so there's a limit economically in testing, beyond which it'll cost increasing larger amounts of money to find and fix a diminishing number of bugs. Flash bugs though can easily brick the device. Thus top priority must be given to careful coding and completely thorough testing/debugging of the flash functions.

I could go on, but I think it's probably over the heads of most here already. Nothing I've said is particularly difficult, but it is tedious and very time consuming and a lot of software engineers seem to want to just gloss over these issues and write their code quick and dirty, which will mean a certain percent of the devices will fail in the field. A well-run development team will see to it that proper flash memory algorithms are utilized, either designing their own code library in-house, or buying a well respected third-party library. Electronics firms which are not well-run and who concentrate on getting products to market without spending the necessary time and money to design them right will typically ignore points such as this. That's why when I seriously look into some product, one priority is to examine as best possible their firmware upgrade facilities. It tells me a lot about how well the product was designed. If the upgrade is poorly designed or non-existent, I'll likely consider other alternatives.

Professionally speaking, poorly designed flash algorithms is probably my biggest pet-peeve, which is why I'm so opinionated about this issue. Second biggest pet-peeve is poorly designed communications protocols with non-failsafe error detecting.

BTW, I don't mean any of these comments to be directed at the team who developed the OTD keyboard. They're also not directed at a hobbyist who just wants to make something for his own use, or for fellow hobbyists capable of downloading directly to a microcontroller. The comments are directed towards companies manufacturing flash-based electronics for mass consumption.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Sat, 13 November 2010, 15:12:53: Cherry has a lot of boards with hardware repgorammability, but it's never implemented to its fullest ability. The QWERTY section is never reprogrammable, for instance, and often the ctrl or shift layers are software. Other Cherry boards boast reprogrammability, but it's all on the software level (like my SPOS).
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Infinite north on Sun, 14 November 2010, 00:19:05: Is there any info on production limitations for these? definitely the first time I have been interested in one of these aluminum body types. after picking up some scarface keycaps for $300 more you are set.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: nanu on Sun, 14 November 2010, 07:51:21: Quote from: Infinite north;246587
Is there any info on production limitations for these? definitely the first time I have been interested in one of these aluminum body types. after picking up some scarface keycaps for $300 more you are set.

7 posts up Sixty mentions a run of 300 units. What do you mean by "production limitations?"
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: WhiteRice on Sun, 14 November 2010, 11:02:03: Quote from: nanu;246640
7 posts up Sixty mentions a run of 300 units. What do you mean by "production limitations?"
Probably starting capital.

Can someone point me to the CAD files?
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Infinite north on Sun, 14 November 2010, 22:28:59: Yeah that's what I was wondering, I scanned through all the posts but missed that.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: sixty on Mon, 22 November 2010, 20:52:55: The name has been revealed now:

The Cheat - CMA

The board is mostly referred to as CMA now. Apparently meaning Copy My Ass.

I did not have the time to fully read up on the reasoning of this yet due to lack of internet access, but I assume its a pun that has to do with certain other people casting keyboards build after the look of the hhmx and 356 for the commercial market. Or maybe just for lulz.

Speaking of lulz, they also have this going on:

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/Aquacompany/3667529462_884df34e_P1010574.jpg)
CMA in a Chinese train.

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/Aquacompany/1138922147_cf4576fd_EC82ACEBB3B8+-ED81ACEAB8B0EBB380ED9998_IMG_0332.jpg)
In Canada

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/Aquacompany/411899986_76b0680b_otdBBT_6505.JPG)
Niagara falls.

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/1325795700_65fc11e1_DSCF3964.jpg)
Stuttgart, Germany

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/Aquacompany/3418785216_0790b376_IMG_0053.JPG)
Hong Kong

News announcement (in Korean language) about the release is here:

http://www.otd.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=product_news&wr_id=1654
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: WhiteRice on Mon, 22 November 2010, 20:55:44: I think STK for steal this keyboard would've been better...
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: RoboKrikit on Mon, 22 November 2010, 22:21:21: Surely there'll be a yellow version of The Cheat.

(http://i.imgur.com/AAFgH.png)
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 09 January 2011, 12:45:13: NECROOOOO. I changed my mind. I want one of these with clears.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: sixty on Sun, 09 January 2011, 13:17:36: The official release to the Korean users is abit more than a month away now. Some new images from various OTD articles from the past month on development progress and parts:

* Special-Modifier/Function keys will be red, double shot
* Special "Cherry" key is included, 2 color sublimation print
* Base color of keycaps will be blue on dark gray, double shot
* Keyboard will be available in two variants black/red and silver/red

Overall it looks very awesome and more promising with every development update. You can see what type of high quality materials they are working with here.

(http://i.imgur.com/ekS6M.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/woLHY.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/F70Rp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P6fmQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XbJLx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XJGdr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/o9xpI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PYeUz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/i3aCB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zg9au.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/95sII.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hQOMt.jpg)

Picture credit:
1,2: 찌니 @ OTD
rest: 응삼 @ OTD
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: wanabe on Sun, 09 January 2011, 13:58:51: wow...i'm not a huge fan of the risers, but this thing looks amazing!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Mojitosh on Mon, 10 January 2011, 01:21:37: Awesome.. love the red bazel..

$$ is totally ~~~
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: squarebox on Mon, 10 January 2011, 03:57:49: Can we buy them?
I seriously would get one.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Supergleep on Mon, 10 January 2011, 10:40:20: /want :faint2:

I would seriously love to aquire one of these with the Cherry clear switches. DIY be damned, this is just too awesome to pass up if it actually becomes available outside of Korea.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: v193r on Mon, 10 January 2011, 10:40:38: Quote from: ripster;245047
Nice. I'd buy one in an instant for the firmware custom layout programmability alone.

The $275 HHKB and $265 86U Realforces should have that instead of DIP switches.

This.

What other kbs available offer custom layout programmability? I need it becuz i use colemak and some games i play use directinput which over rides colemak from the os. also overides autohotkey so idk what im do?
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: hoggy on Mon, 10 January 2011, 14:08:36: Wow. More keyboards should be like this.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: v193r on Mon, 10 January 2011, 16:11:33: Quote from: ripster;276215
Moar Flash Memory, Less DIP Switches!

which kbs have this already?
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: cbf123 on Mon, 10 January 2011, 17:41:09: The Kinesis Advantage boards have onboard programmability.

Might be opening a can of worms here, but the Truly Ergonomic claims to be "fully reprogrammable". Whether that means flash or a software driver is unclear. Guess we'll find out if/when it ships at the end of the month.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 10 January 2011, 20:57:28: Moar Flash Memory, Fewer DIP Switches!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 10 January 2011, 21:16:11: Quote from: ricercar;276414
Moar Flash

/oblig :D go flash go!
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: didjamatic on Mon, 10 January 2011, 21:35:47: (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4YYqn6p8vKYRFiMkTaTovGYO-1s8CwLl2wmrXLWytSY_PxWHy)
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: hfcobra on Mon, 10 January 2011, 23:14:57: wow, this looks amazing. the price not so much though :( maybe someday when I know how to put one together myself I'll buy something like this that day
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: nanu on Tue, 11 January 2011, 04:11:15: After having seen a video on SMT soldering (maybe specifically for this chip, but on a green keyboard PCB, even), it doesn't seem that bad—it's sort of encouraging that all you really have to do is just go at it, slowly and methodically. Assuming your solder and iron remain not overheated, you just clean the tip every minute or so, desoldering any shorting bridges that may form between adjacent traces.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: sixty on Tue, 11 January 2011, 05:01:36: As far as I understood the last news post, the board actually comes assembled with everything but the cable.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Kaz!o on Tue, 11 January 2011, 05:44:27: One of the sexiest keyboard I've ever seen. This metal case is so sweet.

But...
I can't imagine soldering by every customer. It's not so easy as it looks on YT tutorials. And I know what I'm talking about. Are there any other keyboards not assembled on market?
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: sixty on Tue, 11 January 2011, 05:46:29: Quote from: Kaz!o;276607
One of the sexiest keyboard I've ever seen. This metal case is so sweet.

But...
I can't imagine soldering by every customer. It's not so easy as it looks on YT tutorials. And I know what I'm talking about. Are there any other keyboards not assembled on market?

Yes, pretty much every other custom-made Korean keyboard is only sold as a set and not assembled. These are not aimed at normal customers, but rather a small elitist group of enthusiasts.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: Supergleep on Tue, 11 January 2011, 15:41:35: Sixty, where would one go to try and find out more about this keyboard? I really do want to try and get one of these.

I strongly suspect I'm going to have to learn to speak Korean now... :wacko:
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: calavera on Tue, 11 January 2011, 15:50:36: well, the only way to get these asap would be to register over at OTD. I've seen a few posts in English there. But since they plan on selling this through ebay in the distant future, I'd suggest you just wait.

There are about three custom keyboards I really have my eyes set on this year. Too bad most of them are not available or cost around 400+ bucks. :(
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: elbowglue on Tue, 11 January 2011, 16:08:46: No the answer is bibimbap.

Silly ripster.
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: imsto on Tue, 11 January 2011, 21:01:30: love it but the price....
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: imsto on Tue, 11 January 2011, 22:05:07: Quote from: ripster;276467
Not just price.

To build it yourself requires a high degree of skill. SMT soldering DIY is no fun.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=14712&stc=1&d=1294723418)

hoho

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTE2NzUyMjA0.html (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTE2NzUyMjA0.html)

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDM5NzY=.html (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjk4MDM5NzY=.html)
Title: OTD guys announce new custom keyboard
Post by: mmmty on Fri, 29 July 2011, 21:07:13: I know. There was one TypeNow on ebay just last week. :whistle: