geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ynih on Thu, 25 November 2010, 06:14:00

Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Thu, 25 November 2010, 06:14:00: Hi everyone, been a long time lurker on geekhack here and I've decided to say hi and ask you veterans some age-old questions...

SHORT VERSION:

My ultimate question is...for a man who loves his IBM Model M, and cannot live without the flat scissors keyboards like Logitech Ultra X and Thinkpad Laptop keyboard, what would be a good recommendation for him to try? Assuming price is of no object, (also assuming that $250 is the most I'll be shelling for a keyboard that is short of doing the typing for me). So what about it? What do you guys suggest I try?

LONG VERSION:

I've been studiously going through this site's articles and videos and unboxings, etc and reviews, but I am still a little lost on the "feel" of a some of these keyboards...namely the Filco Blue and browns, (and whites?), and the Realforce keyboards... I've listened to all the sound samples and I guess, for me, the sound is a secondary factor. The feel of the keyboard as it responds to each finger press is a more important factor for me...

I know it's very difficult to describe a feel to someone, so I'll start listing all the keyboards I've used for the past 5 years and maybe someone on here who's used the same ones I have and some other ones, can provide a more detailed feedback based upon comparison in what kind of keyboard is more suited for me...

Anyways, around 5 years ago, when I was deciding on my first laptop, I read somewhere that IBM Thinkpad keyboards were legendary to type on among all the laptops out there at the time. After some research, I promptly purchased an IBM Thinkpad T43 for college. I was not disappointed.

1. IBM Thinkpad T43. Honestly the best flat keyboard I've used that just responds to my fingers really well. (http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/4149.jpg)

2. Logitech UltraX. I've now used my Thinkpad for a full year and decided that it was time I built myself a desktop PC. I did a little research and decided to try this Logitech OEM keyboard. To my surprise, the flat keyboard grew on me. It is not quite as good as the IBM Thinkpad, as the build quality, construction, tactile response, was not the same. However, it was close enough.
(http://strony.aster.pl/barton/hardware/Logitech_UltraX_Keyboard.jpg)

3. IBM Thinkpad X60. I decided to pass the T43 to my Dad (he needed a laptop for something and I didn't know any better at the time), and bought a X60 tablet for school to replace my original T43. This laptop's screen was really good for taking notes on in class, but noticeably, the keys were a little more cramped and the keys didn't quite feel the same as the T43 ones that were made by IBM. The X60 thinkpads were already sold to Lenovo and so the keyboards were already a bit different feel compared with the T43.
(http://svc141.bri9l.webmetrix.com.au/images/01-LaptopSolo.jpg)

4. IBM Model M 1390131. After college, I came across a dirty IBM Model M 1390131. I cleaned the keycaps and took it apart (followed the guides on this forum, woot woot) and cleaned the inside too. I use this keyboard almost everyday for 8+ hours a day for work. This was my first noisy keyboard and I surprised myself with how quickly I fell in love with it. keyboards 1,2,3 from above were all flat keyboards, and after trying this sturdy Model M, I started doing more research and found out that Unicomp had bought the patent for the buckling spring. I went to their website and ordered a 104 customizer and tried it out. To my dismay, despite the newer materials used and supposed improved quality, I found the unicomp to be inferior to my 1390131 in every which way. I mean the keys felt looser (not as tightly fit as my Model M), the feel of the plastic kind of make it feel cheap, something about the backplate or the key caps themselves make every actuation feel like a snapping a spring inside a hollow tube that was too thin to contain the actual spring. It was different than my Model M, as my Model was just built like a tank and each spring snap still had that "sprrrriiiinnnggg" sound to it. In the end, I quickly sold the Unicomp to my coworker who sat a few cubicles away from me. He's loving it, I'm glad.
(http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2005/1386085/1386085-001.jpg)

5. I recently just purchased the Filco Majestouch Tactile touch (browns) Ten KeyLess for a friend who didn't have a credit card/paypal. The keyboard came and he gave me half a day to test and play with the keyboard. I was at work so i was obviously comparing it against my Heavy Duty model M..... my initial impressions were that the craftsmanship was very top notch. The keyboard doesn't look as tank-like as my Model M, but it sure felt sturdy. However, there's only 1 problem. The keys felt kind of weird because there were no clicks (I know there shouldn't be ...) but something about the Brown switches that I couldn't put my hand on...didn't feel right. Anyways, that day passed and I no longer have access to test that brown anymore.
(http://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/FKBN87MEB_all_th620x400.jpg)

What is weird is that I type on my model M at work for 8 hours a day, and when I come home and I use my Logitech Ultra X or Thinkpad, I'm totally fine. I think it's because both of these keyboards are scissor switches (I've taken them apart and checked). The logitech scissors are not as good as the Thinkpads (IMO), as the logitech keys feel looser the more I type on it over the years....but my thinkpad has stayed fresh and tight.

My ultimate question is...for a man who loves his IBM Model M, and cannot live without the flat scissors keyboards like Logitech Ultra X and Thinkpad Laptop keyboard, what would be a good recommendation for him to try? Assuming price is of no object, (also assuming that $250 is the most I'll be shelling for a keyboard that is short of doing the typing for me). So what about it? What do you guys suggest I try?
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 25 November 2010, 07:06:01: Welcome to GeekHack! A really good modern scissor switch board might be the best bang for the buck. I don't know which ones are really good right now but I'm sure someone will be along to mention a few.

If you liked the Model M than it's likely you'd dig a Filco with Cherry blues. And, personally I can't recommend the Realforces enough...Personally I think if you can afford the amount, I'd go with one of them first. I think coming from loving scissors and being 'meh' about cherry brown, you'd love a Realforce variable board. My 2 cents, anyway.

EDIT: There was a recent case where a guy who liked his Macbook Pro scissors bought a Realforce, and it ended up on ebay because he decided he liked his scissor switches more. I get the feeling a really good scissor switch (like a logitech perfectstroke) might be your best bet, at least at first.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: mjacob on Thu, 25 November 2010, 10:09:19: Tough call.

I had a ThinkPad T60 and really liked the keyboard on that laptop. I think I picked up a few old Model M's after that and then a Unicomp Customizer/Model M. I'm using a Das Keyboard with Cherry blues at work, and I really like the feel/sound of those switches. I've got a Topre Realforce at home, and I'm still kind of undecided about it. Thinking about picking up a Rosewill RK-9000 if they go on sale this weekend so that I have a Cherry blue board at home.

Let's see... I've also got a couple of Apple aluminum keyboards (wired and wireless), and I actually don't mind those at all. The wireless one is probably the nicest form factor you can get in a keyboard, and it looks great on a desk. Also, if you've got Macs, the Mac function keys are nice to have. For me, the biggest problem with the compact Apple keyboards is when I work from home and remote desktop into my Windows box at work. It's frustrating, to say the least.

You can't go wrong with Cherry blues, though. If you don't need the ten key and don't mind paying a little more for a Filco board, get the tenkeyless tactile click. If you'd rather save $60-70 at the cost of a little more desk real estate, Newegg/ChiefValue might have some deals this weekend on the RK-9000.

Hope that helps,

Matt
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Thu, 25 November 2010, 13:35:58: Quote from: keyboardlover;252254
Welcome to GeekHack! A really good modern scissor switch board might be the best bang for the buck. I don't know which ones are really good right now but I'm sure someone will be along to mention a few.
Thank you!

Quote from: keyboardlover;252254
If you liked the Model M than it's likely you'd dig a Filco with Cherry blues. And, personally I can't recommend the Realforces enough...Personally I think if you can afford the amount, I'd go with one of them first. I think coming from loving scissors and being 'meh' about cherry brown, you'd love a Realforce variable board. My 2 cents, anyway.
Wow, you'd recommend a real force right away huh? They must be really worth the money for you...I will look more into them~ The only problem I forsee with getting Cherry blues is that the actuation force required might be too low, compared to my 1390131. I read somewhere that it's something like 60cN to depress for model Ms, but requires slightly less for the Blue Cherries to click? Anyone can provide some kind of feedback on the tactility?

Quote from: keyboardlover;252254
EDIT: There was a recent case where a guy who liked his Macbook Pro scissors bought a Realforce, and it ended up on ebay because he decided he liked his scissor switches more. I get the feeling a really good scissor switch (like a logitech perfectstroke) might be your best bet, at least at first.
Is the Perfect stroke a subset of scissor switches? OR are they chiclets in disguise? I have tried both the Macbook (which I think is chiclet) and Thinkpads...and as cute and fun it is to type on the MacBook...I think it may not be the best choice for me, as it doesn't feel as "tactile" to me as the Thinkpads...like it doesn't jump back at me with enough force....or the springs are too light or something, heh
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: bakageta on Thu, 25 November 2010, 13:49:16: Quote from: ynih;252353
Wow, you'd recommend a real force right away huh? They must be really worth the money for you...I will look more into them~ The only problem I forsee with getting Cherry blues is that the actuation force required might be too low, compared to my 1390131. I read somewhere that it's something like 60cN to depress for model Ms, but requires slightly less for the Blue Cherries to click? Anyone can provide some kind of feedback on the tactility?

Blues are actually just a hair stiffer than browns, so if you didn't find browns too light, blues shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Thu, 25 November 2010, 13:54:35: Quote from: mjacob;252297
Tough call.

I had a ThinkPad T60 and really liked the keyboard on that laptop. I think I picked up a few old Model M's after that and then a Unicomp Customizer/Model M. I'm using a Das Keyboard with Cherry blues at work, and I really like the feel/sound of those switches. I've got a Topre Realforce at home, and I'm still kind of undecided about it. Thinking about picking up a Rosewill RK-9000 if they go on sale this weekend so that I have a Cherry blue board at home.
Hmm that's an interesting proposition...would you think that the Rosewill RK-9000 Cherry blue's will feel the same or closely similar to the Das or Filco Cherry blues? I know it's not the same thing, but if I can pick up something for cheap to play with, and then make my buying decision, why not, right?

Quote from: mjacob;252297
Let's see... I've also got a couple of Apple aluminum keyboards (wired and wireless), and I actually don't mind those at all. The wireless one is probably the nicest form factor you can get in a keyboard, and it looks great on a desk. Also, if you've got Macs, the Mac function keys are nice to have. For me, the biggest problem with the compact Apple keyboards is when I work from home and remote desktop into my Windows box at work. It's frustrating, to say the least.
Haha, I know what you mean about the RDP... >_> I forgot to mention, I also have the flat full sized Apple keyboard too, but the fact that it's SOOO flat and requires SOOO little actuation force, actually makes me kind of dislike it. (http://storeimages.apple.com/1772/as-images.apple.com/is/image/AppleInc/MB110LL?wid=1200&hei=1200&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95&op_sharpen=0&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.5,0,0&iccEmbed=0&layer=comp)

Quote from: mjacob;252297
You can't go wrong with Cherry blues, though. If you don't need the ten key and don't mind paying a little more for a Filco board, get the tenkeyless tactile click. If you'd rather save $60-70 at the cost of a little more desk real estate, Newegg/ChiefValue might have some deals this weekend on the RK-9000.

Hope that helps,

Matt
Thanks for the RK-9000 suggestion, I'll look into that...I only wish there was a place that sells these or similar keyboards with similar key switches on display for us to try....I'm going to try and see if Frys has anything similar on display. I know that Frys has the Black Cherry switches (on the SteelSeries) and I don't really like them, as they don't provide any tactile feedback during typing (to me). I have also seen that they had the SIIG mechanical keyboard there too, but I do not know what kind of switches are used in them...
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Thu, 25 November 2010, 13:56:53: Quote from: bakageta;252361
Blues are actually just a hair stiffer than browns, so if you didn't find browns too light, blues shouldn't be an issue.

Ah, really? Just a hair huh...what (if anyone can chime in) would the feel between blues vs brown vs realforce keyboards? Is it something like realforce > Blue > browns in terms of actuation weight required?
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: mjacob on Thu, 25 November 2010, 14:16:06: Quote from: ynih;252362
Hmm that's an interesting proposition...would you think that the Rosewill RK-9000 Cherry blue's will feel the same or closely similar to the Das or Filco Cherry blues? I know it's not the same thing, but if I can pick up something for cheap to play with, and then make my buying decision, why not, right?

Actually, the RK-9000 is exactly the same thing as the Filco 104-key NKRO tactile click board. They're both made by Costar, and the only thing that's different is the branding. The Das Keyboard is made by Costar too, but I believe the construction is different from their other boards.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Thu, 25 November 2010, 14:55:09: Quote from: keyboardlover;252254
Welcome to GeekHack! A really good modern scissor switch board might be the best bang for the buck. I don't know which ones are really good right now but I'm sure someone will be along to mention a few.

Higher models from Hama.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 25 November 2010, 18:15:04: Quote from: ynih

Is the Perfect stroke a subset of scissor switches? OR are they chiclets in disguise? I have tried both the Macbook (which I think is chiclet) and Thinkpads...and as cute and fun it is to type on the MacBook...I think it may not be the best choice for me, as it doesn't feel as "tactile" to me as the Thinkpads...like it doesn't jump back at me with enough force....or the springs are too light or something, heh

While the macbook has chiclets, the macbook pro has different keys which are much nicer to type on. My dad has one and loves it. The perfectstroke is a type of scissor switch made my logitech and available on certain types of their keyboards (you'd have to search to find out which).

Quote from: ynih

Higher models from Hama.

Cool, good to know!
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: spolia optima on Fri, 26 November 2010, 00:08:50: Give the browns a good month to grow on you. Your fingertips will thank you after a day of serious typing on those browns, really. It's like dipping your fingahs in buttah.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: iMav on Sat, 27 November 2010, 04:00:34: I'm going to go in a different direction and recommend you try a Model F. However, I have to warn you...you won't want to use your Model M ever again. :)

(there's plenty of details regarding this keyboard here at geekhack, so I won't bother with a sub-par synopsis of the 'board.)
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Sat, 27 November 2010, 11:49:57: Wow @_@ oh my...looks cool but I don't need that much bling in my keyboard...that's partially why I held back on getting that RK-9000...it has a slight red undertone to it (underneath) the keycaps, also because the reports that come back saying the quality is not quite as spot on as the Filco Tactile Clicks...

(http://www.hwstation.net/img_rec/enermax_acrylux/foto4.jpg)
I mean this just looks like my Logitech UltraX (which I have 2 of) except it being wireless and glow-y....No sir, maybe another day when I've collected all the Filcos and RealForces...

WHICH comes to beg the question....if I have ~$250 to blow (i.e. overlook the price), should I get the Brown Filco or the RealForce 55g? (And I'm not getting the variable weighted one, since I type kind of cheating-ly....I only use my pinkys for "a" and occasionally for the keys past "p")

So keyboardlover mentioned RealForce...and that got me thinking...should I get the best of the best as my first expensive keyboard...or would it be more wise and prudent to get a middle of the line and evaluate from there? In other words, I don't want to deal with Buyer's remorse!! hahah
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Sat, 27 November 2010, 11:57:44: Or instead of the Tactile touch, should I get the Tactile Click instead? As the IBM Model M's noise totally helps me type and keeps me SANE. I love it. But I do want to enjoy and feel all the glory that is RealForce....!! hmm...I hate this indecisiveness. ...
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: guilleguillaume on Sat, 27 November 2010, 11:58:53: Ripster you mean this keyboard I supose:

(http://i.imgur.com/TO8Ra.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/qFePs.jpg)

I think they look pretty good with the aluminium.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Sat, 27 November 2010, 12:51:33: Quote from: guilleguillaume;253004
Ripster you mean this keyboard I supose:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/qFePs.jpg)

I think they look pretty good with the aluminium.

Is it just me or are those keys mapped...a little differently?
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: whizz on Sat, 27 November 2010, 13:27:05: Guys, I had this Enermax Aluminum keyboard before and be careful! It is a piece of crap!

It looks great, but it has a very serious problems.

1) aluminium is great to look at, but it is constantly cold, so you cannot use the wrist-rest at all because it is very uncomfortable

2) the keys are very hard bottom end, it is like to type on the rock

3) it has a problems with connectivity, until finally died

4) it has USB hub which makes the cable ultra-fat and ugly

That is my point of view of course
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Sat, 27 November 2010, 13:39:40: whizz, your thoughts remind me of the HP Wireless Elite Keyboard that I had...It was absolute eye candy on my desk. very sleek and flat...but that was the problem! It was too darn flat, and my fingers ached from typing on it
(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1499/331078876271ec6f92d2.jpg)
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Sat, 27 November 2010, 13:42:53: Quote from: ripster;253049
Well, that sounds yucky.

And just to be complete speaking of unusual layouts there is the Filco Scissor. Would be a PITA to get though. Plus, it's pretty pink and will invite ridicule outside California. NowSharing had a Kensington scissor that he liked but had to replace like three times.
See now, All three scissors that I've seen, enermax, Filco scissor, and the UltraX that I have from logitech all "look" the same--I know looks aren't everything...but are the differences in feel for the different scissors as pronounced as big mechanical switch keys? I have to argue...a rubber is a rubber, even if they are all under some scissor mechanisms...
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Sat, 27 November 2010, 20:44:49: Ah, makes sense...

See now I am at ANOTHER dilemma, I have given up scissor switches, and I want to go full size/length.

I really don't know which keyswitch is the one for me!! @_@ help please!... Brown Cherry or Topre....or should I forgo the silence and just get a Blue Cherry? I love the clicking noise of my Model M so much, but I also love the tactile feel of my thinkpad laptop....I'm hoping either Topre or Brown will be able to replicate that similar kind of feedback, somehow...

See for me is: I wouldn't mind spending near $300 on a keyboard locally from elitekeyboards.com or risk shipping it from Taiwan for $150 USD, I just don't want to spend that much on something that I don't know if I'll like because I've never touched/felt it... I've read all through the wiki's and listened to all the sound clips available, but it's the feel that I cannot figure out. It's just a whole lotta risk in something that you read and hear about from forums online on product(s) that depend a whole lot on how it *feels*...ya'll know where I'm coming from? I know that you've all been in that boat once before you found the keyboard that suits your style....help a brotha out~

Say... Are there any geekhackers in the Los Angeles region? Would anyone like to meet up somewhere in Los Angeles area with me and wouldn't mind if I touched their keyboards for a few minutes? (i know how bad this sounds, lol!) I'm a really reputable individual that's done his fair share of buying and selling online, meeting people from forums someplace in the middle to buy/trade stuff...I'll even wear surgical gloves if you want me to....
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: maxlugar on Sun, 28 November 2010, 02:30:18: Quote from: ynih;253170
Ah, makes sense...

See now I am at ANOTHER dilemma, I have given up scissor switches, and I want to go full size/length.

I really don't know which keyswitch is the one for me!! @_@ help please!... Brown Cherry or Topre....or should I forgo the silence and just get a Blue Cherry? I love the clicking noise of my Model M so much, but I also love the tactile feel of my thinkpad laptop....I'm hoping either Topre or Brown will be able to replicate that similar kind of feedback, somehow...

See for me is: I wouldn't mind spending near $300 on a keyboard locally from elitekeyboards.com or risk shipping it from Taiwan for $150 USD, I just don't want to spend that much on something that I don't know if I'll like because I've never touched/felt it... I've read all through the wiki's and listened to all the sound clips available, but it's the feel that I cannot figure out. It's just a whole lotta risk in something that you read and hear about from forums online on product(s) that depend a whole lot on how it *feels*...ya'll know where I'm coming from? I know that you've all been in that boat once before you found the keyboard that suits your style....help a brotha out~

Say... Are there any geekhackers in the Los Angeles region? Would anyone like to meet up somewhere in Los Angeles area with me and wouldn't mind if I touched their keyboards for a few minutes? (i know how bad this sounds, lol!) I'm a really reputable individual that's done his fair share of buying and selling online, meeting people from forums someplace in the middle to buy/trade stuff...I'll even wear surgical gloves if you want me to....

I'm up in Simi Valley but travel to South Orange County and Phoenix about once a week.

IMav is correct. The so called vintage 84-key IBM PC AT Model F is about as good as it gets for mechanical action keyboards. It uses buckling springs over capacitive contact key switches which will virtually never wear out. However, the layout and lack of dedicated cursor control arrow keys require a separate numeric keypad. When combined with the large 84-key footprint, the two HIDs consume a lot of desktop real estate.

PM me if you're interested in trying out some different keyboards. My office is in Moorpark, off of the 118 Ronald Regan freeway, approximately 40 minutes from the Bob Hope airport in Burbank.

Cheers
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Sun, 28 November 2010, 03:28:04: So you're up in Simi Valley? Nice! That's only 1 hour away from me, I work in City of Industry....So you're a Model F man? do you specialize in that or...do you have other KBs that you use as well?...haha I just noticed the "Emperor ...".....hmmm?
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: maxlugar on Sun, 28 November 2010, 21:14:06: Quote from: ynih;253264
So you're up in Simi Valley? Nice! That's only 1 hour away from me, I work in City of Industry....So you're a Model F man? do you specialize in that or...do you have other KBs that you use as well?...haha I just noticed the "Emperor ...".....hmmm?

Yeah, delusions of grandeur I guess. I'm a real legend in my own mind ;)
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Mon, 29 November 2010, 05:14:22: Max, after reading your post here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=134484#post134484), something clicked in me and I knew...then and there, that you spoke my language and every fiber in my body was convinced that a RealForce was the right keyboard for me.
Quote
Because my primary keyboard has been (and is still occasionally) an 84-key IBM PC AT buckling spring/capacitive Model F, I have been conditioned to pressing hard on the keys (especially the space bar!)

I have grown to appreciate my two Topre key switch boards. What I like about the Topre key switch is the soft landing when it bottoms out. I can still type relatively fast (80-90 WPM) on the HHKB Pro2 and 87U while bottoming out the keys. Bottoming out on the Topres also has a nice reassuring sound, but your fingers feel "cushioned."

I have limited experience with Cherrry Browns; all I have is the Filco keypad. To me, the keys feel linear. I barely feel the tactile bump before I bottom out. I enjoy botomming out on the Cherry Brown only because of the sound - it provides me with audible confirmation of the key stroke. However, bottoming out Brown Cherries is not as pleasant as bottoming out Topre switches. Also, I personally find the Topre key switches more tactile (feeling) than the Brown Cherry key switches. (you know, that snap of rubber cup and feeling of oneness with cup rubber)

I don't got a Model F, but I definitely give it a generous and firm pounding with my fingers whenever I type on it at work.

I'm 80-90WPM as well :~)...my WPM did not change coming from scissor type switches to my Model M's, which probably affirms that I like to bottom my keys out. Glad to know the Topre's will feel good if I were to bottom out...which I'm probably bound to do when I first get them...

"I have limited experience with Cherrry Browns; all I have is the Filco keypad."
>> me too, all I've had to play with is a few hours with a Tenkeyless Brown for a friend. and yes, to me, they felt linear as well. I have tried the Black cherries of the SteelSeries keyboard at my local Fry's Electronics, and the difference (to me) between the brown and the blacks are that the blacks provide more resistance. Both brown and black switches feel relatively linear to me. Yes, the sound coming from the browns after each keystroke is nice....

I don't know what you're talking about with the one-ness with one-cup yet, but more tactile? I'm all for it!
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: ynih on Tue, 07 December 2010, 01:29:34: Okay, alrighty...an update. I ended up getting two keyboards, 1 Realforce 103 55g (from EliteKeyboard) and Filco Electric Blue 104 w/ Blue key switches (The Keyboard Company)....I have to honestly say....and a lot of people will probably facepalm me for this but...the the Filco feels like a friggin toy! Like it's just really "fun" to type on, but ... I never get any damn work done when I'm using it. sheesh! I've used it for 2-3 hours so far, but I'm going to stash it and pull it out when I assemble my other PC later this year.

The Realforce now...is such a comparable/surprising keyboard. It's comparable because I feel like "it damn better type well for the dough I dropped on it..." but surprising because "oh my oh my, it sure feels sooo much better than the initial impression I got by just looking at the pictures".

At work, I'm used to typing on my Model M 1390131 (65g~70g of actuation force) even though I think I bottom sometimes. Now, with the Topre board, it is measured to be 55g of actuation force required for keys all around (I'm using Ripster's method with the US Nickels), but since it seems the keys register at the very top, it actually feels more than 55g of actuation force on my fingers. Keep in mind that I type on my Model M writing and answering support tickets for 8+ hours during the day)...so when I come home, I'll give my fingers a break and have some fun by using the Blue switches, but when I'm using the Topre, it is a much more satisfying feel but not that much lighter on my fingers, compared with my Model M. Note: I only got the 55g because I figured my Model Ms measured 65-70g at work, I wanted to have some kind of consistency...

So to sum it all up in one non-coherent sentence:

When I feel like I want to do some work...I pull out the Topre, but when I want to chat online with a few buddies and (no not play games, the high pitched click kind of annoys me and distracts me from hearing footsteps)...I pull out my Filco.

The only (-) I have with the Topre is that the keys are impossible to read. I considered getting the white one with black lettering, or even the tenkeyless, but I can't promise that I'd be able to keep the keys spotless. You know how dirt shows up really easily on white keyboards...it'd break my heart to see my Topre getting dirty so easily...I digress...Anyone want to comment on the durability of the white Topre keycaps to repel dirt and grime? :~)

The only (-) I have with the Filco is that the keys feel like really Low quality plastic when compared side to side with the Topre. The Topre feels like it's a tool, from the no-nonsense plain casing to the rubbery feel of the keys. The Filco just looks like eyecandy on my desk (I'm considering getting a Tenkeyless with Black switches just for gaming) and the keycaps wiggle a bit and just don't seem all that sturdy. Aside from the 4 large rubber feet found on the bottom, my initial findings on the durability of the Filco is in no comparison with the Topre and the Model M (well, duh).

Again, this review is biased, and I hope my words/thoughts will help some other soul out there. Oh! I'm probably not going to sell the Blue switch, as much as I like the Topre.

Thanks Brian from EliteKeyboards for the Topre, and thanks Bruce from TheKeyboardCo for the Filco. More orders are sure to come from me!
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: hypez604 on Mon, 31 January 2011, 18:01:42: thanks for the short review of the two keyboards, i was trying to decide if to get the realforce 103 55g or a cherry mx based kb like filco or das. Thanks to your review I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the realforce, since I'll use it for coding and gaming it sounds like the best match.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: hypez604 on Mon, 31 January 2011, 19:27:21: Quote from: ripster;287972
Might want to wait and see what the Elitekeyboard Leopolds look like.

The newer style Leopold high contrast lasered keys look nicer than the Das, Cherry Corp and ESPECIALLY compared to this latest batch of Asian keyboards - Noppoo, Ducky, and Plum.

Can you please give me more details about the leopolds..
like when are they going to be released?
what kind of key mechanism is going to be utilized?

If it's a cherry mx based like it says on elite kb website about their soon-to-be-released model, then I'll probably pass and rather get topre switches because they're less noisy, I share the house with my wife and my newborn son.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 31 January 2011, 22:44:56: No clue when they'll be released (supposed to be sometime this spring). They will definitely have MX switches. Topre definitely sounds like a better choice for you; mechanical keyboards don't get any quieter.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: hypez604 on Tue, 01 February 2011, 00:19:23: I'm leaning towards the 55g one.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: gilgam on Tue, 01 February 2011, 16:26:53: No mechanical keyboard is quieter than a scissor switch but Realforce, lightly typed, is very sweet to hear and quiet too.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: hypez604 on Tue, 01 February 2011, 23:53:55: even though I'm an American, still pulled the trigger on rf 103ub 55g.
Title: Need advice in choosing between Filco and Realforce and ???
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 02 February 2011, 07:36:30: Quote from: hypez604;288661
even though I'm an American, still pulled the trigger on rf 103ub 55g.

Congrats! You'll love it!