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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: fssbzz on Fri, 10 December 2010, 11:54:41

Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Fri, 10 December 2010, 11:54:41: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Fri, 10 December 2010, 12:01:59: Quote from: ripster;260744
Yep.

Here. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7486)

I AM the Geekhack search engine today. Maybe it was the thread title?

"Cherry Switch Swapping." Cherry Switch Switching wouldn't have helped you and sounds horrible.

Thank you very much!!!
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: turbocharged on Fri, 10 December 2010, 12:02:51: There are two ways that I know of for doing this.

The Professional Way (aka the fast way if you have the right tools)
Step 1: Use a solder sucker to desolder each pin from the PCB.
Step 2: Depress the tabs that are above the plate with a small screwdriver and push out the switch from the back.

The Other Way (aka what you do if you don't have a solder sucker...not the recommended way)
Step 1: Depress the tabs on the top of the plate (that hold the switch to the plate) and twist the screwdriver to put a bit of tension on the switch.
Step 2: Go with your soldering iron and melt the solder on a pin. The switch should move up a little.
Step 3: Next melt the solder on another pin while prying on the other side of the switch. The switch will come out a little more.
Step 4: Keep going back and forth until the switch works its way out.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 10 December 2010, 12:22:10: solder sucker is the way to go, you can pop those cherries off easily with a 8$ solder sucker, honestly after doing like 10 cherry switches you can probably do a switch in 5 seconds. (not counting the time needed to "clean" out the solder in the sucker).
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Fri, 10 December 2010, 12:29:44: what's the best soldering tool you guys will recommend?
prefer from amazon.
and i will just get a good sucker as the desoldering tool
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Fri, 10 December 2010, 12:46:50: Quote from: ripster;260782
Weller and Debby Does Dallas, both at Amazon.

lol.
ok whats the different between those watt?
25watt enough for soldering?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B63BTU/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&s=hi&psc=1
or this?
http://www.amazon.com/Coopertools-SP12-Mini-Lightweight-Solder/dp/B00002N7S9/ref=sr_1_9?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1292013032&sr=1-9 (http://www.amazon.com/Coopertools-SP12-Mini-Lightweight-Solder/dp/B00002N7S9/ref=sr_1_9?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1292013032&sr=1-9)
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: JBert on Fri, 10 December 2010, 13:02:05: The more watts, the faster it heats and re-heats. It allows you to work faster and more accurate.
For small stuff, the limit is at 50W though, anything above needs serious temperature control or is just unusable for anything but soldering large pieces of copper (like plumbing).

35W might thus work better but is more expensive as well. While looking for it on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP35-Professional-Soldering-3-Wire/dp/B000B5YIYS/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1292013854&sr=1-8), I noticed that that particular soldering iron seems to frequently bought together with an extra tip and solder sucker...
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 10 December 2010, 13:13:43: don't forget the solder sucker, they're cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-Solder-Sucker/dp/B0002KRAAG/ref=dp_cp_ob_hi_title_3 (http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-Solder-Sucker/dp/B0002KRAAG/ref=dp_cp_ob_hi_title_3)
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: runeazn on Fri, 10 December 2010, 13:19:43: since i dont want to make a whole thread about it is this one good :
http://cgi.ebay.de/regelbarer-Lotkolben-Pro-708-50W-200-450-C-/250740723014?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Heimwerker_Elektrowerkzeuge&hash=item3a614fcd46
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 10 December 2010, 13:26:18: i found that for desoldering, any iron is good, cuz all your doing is putting something hot (700c) to solder and melting it and using something (sucker/wick) to bleed it out. Of course more expensive solder irons or more watt irons would heat up faster so you can desolder more.
what i mean by heat up faster is that, once you put your solder iron on a solder to de-joint, the heat goes away and the solder iron has to heat up to that temperature again to have the heat necessary for more desoldering.
i'm just using basic logic in that more expensive/ more watts will let you desolder faster.
here's a better vid explaining what i'm trying to say
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 10 December 2010, 13:28:55: While I know they make some of the best equipment in their field, there is still something a little unsettling about using something with the name "Fluke." Kinda like Fry's Electronics or Conn's.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: kidchunks on Fri, 10 December 2010, 13:33:01: I used this desolder tool back in the day. Haven't done any soldering in awhile.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731&filterName=Category&retainProdsInSession=1

I thought it worked well for what I needed it for.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: runeazn on Fri, 10 December 2010, 13:33:17: 200-450C enought to desolder??
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Fri, 10 December 2010, 14:06:35: I think a better question is how did that Korean guy open up a plate mounted Cherry switch without desoldering it? It's spoken of in hushed terms, like some urban myth. I haven't seen an actual link or run down of the procedure, I just know it's "out there".
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Fri, 10 December 2010, 19:21:05: alright...thanks everyone for help!
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 10 December 2010, 19:30:32: Quote from: Mr. Perfect;260874
I think a better question is how did that Korean guy open up a plate mounted Cherry switch without desoldering it? It's spoken of in hushed terms, like some urban myth. I haven't seen an actual link or run down of the procedure, I just know it's "out there".

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13046 (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13046)

make that tool and you can "rock" one side out then rock the other.
another consideration is to mod an ic extraction tool

dremel out the metal i colored in yellow and it should fit the cherry tabs nicely. (note i haven't tried this, but it came to my attention when i was cleaning out all my tools and this useless tool seemed to have a purpose since i've never touched an IC)
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5131/p1010880q.jpg) (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/p1010880q.jpg/)
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Fri, 10 December 2010, 19:49:42: Hmm, interesting. I'd rather rock open tabs then desolder/resolder switches. Thanks, Lanx.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: turbocharged on Fri, 10 December 2010, 19:52:57: Quote from: Lanx;261051
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13046 (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13046)

make that tool and you can "rock" one side out then rock the other.
another consideration is to mod an ic extraction tool

dremel out the metal i colored in yellow and it should fit the cherry tabs nicely. (note i haven't tried this, but it came to my attention when i was cleaning out all my tools and this useless tool seemed to have a purpose since i've never touched an IC)
Show Image
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5131/p1010880q.jpg) (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/p1010880q.jpg/)

I don't see how that would make you able to take the switch apart through the plate without desoldering.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Fri, 10 December 2010, 20:00:36: ya. me either. i try to open one of my switch just now, it doesn't work very well.
is pretty hard. end up damaging the plastic around the cherry mx switch.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 10 December 2010, 23:11:50: maybe get 2 or a wider ic puller and carve out exact porportions, i've used the rocker tweezer just fine (sometimes it takes a while to nudge it in).
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Fri, 10 December 2010, 23:13:12: will it end up and pull the whole switch off?
broke the soldering between the PCB, then the whole switch come off, i pull it too hard?
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Sat, 11 December 2010, 00:17:34: i've opened 100 cherries or so cuz of my mod, i've rocked the cherries in my modded nostromo many times (deciding between brown/blue/spring strength).
i don't know how the ic puller will work since i have no experience with it, and only mentioned it cuz i just cleaned out my "work area" and thought hey this might work.

with enough force, you can break a cherry switch but it'd have to be a combination of a lot of force and bending the tabs in really the wrong way. I highly doubt the it could be pulled off the board, idk it might be different with other manufacturers (and there is evidence) but the cherry boards i had would need hulk sized strength to rip the cherries out in tack w/o de-soldering.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: nanu on Sat, 11 December 2010, 05:45:42: Wait, Lanx, I keep reading your proposed solution. What is it meant for doing, pulling out a desoldered MX switch, whole?
Or removing the upper casing half of a plate-mounted MX switch so you can, for instance, do a spring swap?

I'm skeptical of the elusive "metal slivers through the plate holes" method of undoing the snap tabs. To have the claws thin enough to slide into the plate mounted holes yet still rigid enough to hook onto the tabs to flare outward is impractical. There is zero clearance/no gap between a properly plate-mounted switch and its plate. You'd have to warp the switch inward just to get something through the hole.

Alternatively, if your motivation is to harvest plungers and springs for a permanent swap (trading one MX switch type for another, but mixing components of each), you could avoid desoldering plate mounted switches by going at it from the sides with a knife to cut the tabs, killing the upper half of the switch enclosure(s).
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Sat, 11 December 2010, 11:39:52: just removing the cap, to remove the entire switch you have to de-solder.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Sat, 11 December 2010, 12:13:31: Quote from: Lanx;261364
just removing the cap, to remove the entire switch you have to de-solder.

so the plate mounted mx cap is removable without de-solder it?
im too scare to put in too much force on to removing the cap, end up breaking the mx switch and if lucky, break the PCB.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 11 December 2010, 13:22:49: Quote from: fssbzz;261375
so the plate mounted mx cap is removable without de-solder it?

No. There are four plastic prongs that keep the switch housing together. These prongs are squeezed shut by the left and right walls of the square hole in the plate that the switch sits in.

However ... the top millimeter of each prong is accessible from the top, and I suppose that it would be possible to saw the prongs off with some custom-made razor saw.
That would destroy the switch and the only way to put it together again would be to use glue. You could put a spot of glue in each corner, away from the switch mechanism.
I suppose that this is what the crazy [strike]Korean[/strike] Japanese guy could have done. I wouldn't try it.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: nanu on Sat, 11 December 2010, 14:23:16: Yeah, it's a myth unless someone documents in great detail exactly how it's done. In most cases, both of these conditions hold true:

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13953&stc=1&d=1292105591)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13954&stc=1&d=1292105591)
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: fssbzz on Sat, 11 December 2010, 14:25:36: i guess soldering is the best method for the plate mounted mx switch.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: nanu on Sat, 11 December 2010, 14:40:54: There's at least one other destructive method that may work.

Viewing the switch from the top, for each of the 4 snap-tab-prongs, there is a hole. The plastic you see through the holes is actually the bottom half of the switch casing. You could probably drill away to remove material there. This cancels the locking effect.

As for what extent: just enough so that you can pry away the top half. The point is to make it friction-fit rather than snapping. Sort of like how the plate mount tabs on the other two sides of the switch actually works. In the worst case, removing too much plastic would send the guts of the switch flying apart if you release a pressed key. I couldn't see this happening unless you use a spring stiffer than a Cherry black's.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Sat, 11 December 2010, 14:54:27: i musta missed the plate mounted sorry, all the stuff i've said concerns pcb mounted only since that's the only experience i have working with.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: elbowglue on Sat, 11 December 2010, 15:12:58: Lol lanx - You almost got me to break a switch on my wife's pink filco trying to pry it out from the side. I guess common sense prevailed (not before trying hard though)
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Arc'xer on Sat, 11 December 2010, 15:33:25: Shame it doesn't work on plate mounted. Unless somehow it's possible with a fine enough tool.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: nanu on Sat, 11 December 2010, 16:07:57: I used a 3/64" drill bit on my Dremel. You only have to do one side.
It's impossible to see what material you've removed so invariably you will have to overkill but it's arguably less effort than desoldering and resoldering.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13959&stc=1&d=1292104952)
Pictured at the right is a switch I cut with a knife. The snap tabs are still stuck in there. Generally, this is not feasible because there's another switch in the way. Still quick if you only intend to harvest plungers/springs.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Lanx on Sat, 11 December 2010, 16:43:01: i'm mourning those cherries right now, the left one cannot have an open casket!
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: Konrad on Sat, 11 December 2010, 18:24:21: What, nobody uses desoldering braid any more?

Solder sucker bulbs or tubes are cheap, but copper braid is cheaper still if you have a run of old TV coax you can destroy. Drinks wet tin solder up nice and clean.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: nanu on Sat, 08 January 2011, 22:33:20: We always go OT but since we've discussed solderless methods ITT anyway, here's what I tried today. It's destructive but works so far.

[strike]All you really need for the upper MX switch case half is a means to keep the plunger side guides in its channels, capping them off. The overkill of the original upper half is just robustness to minimize wiggling in the up/down direction, and to withstand keycap pulls. Not to mention providing some barrier to the internals from foreign particulates.[/strike]

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=14626&stc=1&d=1294547034)
However, it's not without execution problems:

If you don't enlarge the "diode slot" hole on center, there will be friction against the switch plunger (I first tried it without melting the inner wall a bit).

What's a good sized screw? I don't know, these are cheap ones I salvaged from some piece of junk.

As noted in the image, merely using a screw hardly does anything but keep the thing together some.

Oh, and cutting the tabs requires much force and so it's not quite feasible to do this to a whole keyboard. Maybe a special knife would work. I used the knife on a Leatherman Micra and even that was almost too big.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 08 January 2011, 22:42:24: Awesome, bold mod Nanu.

(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4627/ho8dz21294550516.jpg)
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: typo on Sat, 08 January 2011, 23:35:44: if i need to service a switch, hopefully the bottom contacts are still good. they usually are. i just disassemble the switch right on the plate and replace the guts.

someone not so long ago posted about how to remove a switch without soldering!
i hope you can find that post now because i cannot.

edit: i see all this was discussed already. the hole is not too small if you use a spark plug gap tool. you will need the expensive kind with all the different blades. just use the blade that fits. they go much thinner than paper but those are too flimsy and you will not need that one.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: nanu on Sun, 09 January 2011, 19:26:27: Epoxy seems to hold things together in my screwy mod as long as the keycap doesn't terribly stick onto a switch. 3/4 keys in my arrow key trial can be keycapped pulled without the screw coming loose. This is likely the extent to which I will apply this mod. I am liking ghetto reds.

Quote from: typo;275547
someone not so long ago posted about how to remove a switch without soldering!
i hope you can find that post now because i cannot.

the hole is not too small if you use a spark plug gap tool. you will need the expensive kind with all the different blades. just use the blade that fits. they go much thinner than paper but those are too flimsy and you will not need that one.

This is the greatest hoax thus far on geekhack!

Quote from: nanu
Yeah, it's a myth unless someone documents in great detail exactly how it's done.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: typo on Sun, 09 January 2011, 21:55:45: sorry, i just saw it. i did not know it was bs. my bad.
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: AcidSouL on Sat, 16 April 2011, 04:04:51: hey guys...is razer black widow is plate mounted? i mean do i will can change some keys to chery black from 6gv2...just like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivKt63dLvA&feature=player_embedded#at=24
or not?
Title: Is there any guide how to switch/unsolder plate mounted Cherry MX switch?
Post by: RiGS on Sat, 16 April 2011, 06:07:31: Yes, it is plate mounted. No, you cannot change it like that.