geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: wendell on Wed, 15 December 2010, 10:56:24
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I have some early-90s keyboards with clicky keys, but the one I can hear best from the other end of the house is a HHKB Lite. The membrane action itself makes practically no sound; it's the clack and rattle of the keys.
Switch sound gets a lot of discussion, but not so much the rest of it. It really ought to, though. The click of a switch gives audible verification of input, but creaks, clacks, and rattles occur without direct relation to keyswitch function. It is purely a distraction that needs to be minimized.
I thought if there were a common term for it, that would encourage discussion and indirectly influence manufacturers to pay more attention to reducing it.
Here are a few ideas, none of which I really like:
EBTS
clatter
rattle
resonance
R&R (rattle and resonance)
peripheral noise
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AFAIC, "clack" is the appropriate term for the sound a key makes when bottoming out or when returning to the top position.
Check out these threads (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22clack%22+site%3Ageekhack.org&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&num=100&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&tbs=#sclient=psy&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&q=%22clack%22+site:geekhack.org&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9111c1d610a8252).
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AFAIC, "clack" is the appropriate term for the sound a key makes when bottoming out or when returning to the top position.
Check out these threads (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22clack%22+site%3Ageekhack.org&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&num=100&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&tbs=#sclient=psy&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&q=%22clack%22+site:geekhack.org&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9111c1d610a8252).
This.
In GH common-language, "click" refers to intended, audible feedback from the switch itself; "clack," as iMav pointed out, refers to the noise created by the switch bottoming or topping out. Other noises, like creaking, are referred to on an ad hoc basis.
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The auto industry has the term NVH for noise, vibration, and harshness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise,_vibration,_and_harshness). It doesn't imply that all noise is a bad thing; there is good and bad noise.
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Well, "clack" doesn't quite cover creak and resonance, but it's clearly the established term. Question answered.
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I third that "Clack" motion and henceforth have added it to the Wiki Start Here glossary (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START+HERE+--+The+Geekhack+Mechanical+Keyboard+Guide+-+Includes+Glossary+and+Links#GLOSSARY).
FYI, "USB" is one of three valid answers for the registration question.
(and I think BRS needs to be added to the glossary) ;)
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ADB and PS2. (lots of folks were putting that in and I was getting lots of email about registration issues...none since adding those two). :)
Buckling Rubber Sleeves
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Biologists use the term "Binary Nomenclature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_nomenclature)"
Haha, reminded me of the "Fantastic Mr. Fox" movie and instantly laughed.
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I would add this definition:
Rattle - The noise from unintended collisions within the key/switch, most of all in a horizontal direction. If you sweep your fingers over the keys without depressing them, this is what you will hear. These are often caused by there being gaps in-between parts, such as between key cap and key stem or in-between plunger and shaft walls.
I have experienced both rubber domes and mechanicals with either high and low levels of rattle.
As to "resonance" - I would say that that is only a variable telling how much the noise is amplified.
However, on the rubber dome that I am typing on now, most of the noise does not come from click (it is not clicky), clack (dampened by rubber) or from rattle (it is a good rubber dome), but from when the keys bounce back to the top after I have released them.
What would you call this unwanted noise?
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However, on the rubber dome that I am typing on now, most of the noise does not come from click (it is not clicky), clack (dampened by rubber) or from rattle (it is a good rubber dome), but from when the keys bounce back to the top after I have released them.
What would you call this unwanted noise?
Top-out noise?
BTW, just about any "crisp"-feeling 'board is likely to have some of that. It's not possible to have a sudden onset of force on downstroke without a hard stop up there. The rest is moving mass vs. damping plus noise propagation.
Or did you mean something that occurs even before the key tops out? Like the flop-flop noise that the domes in my BTC make when restoring their shape?
BTW, there is another source for rattling, PCBs which aren't fixed perfectly. G80-3000 users might know this.
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Yea, I don't mind the clickyness of my blues at all, it's just the top-out ringy resonance noise which I don't like in my ears
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What about the sound some rubber domes make when the domes collapse?
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What about the sound some rubber domes make when the domes collapse?
I think that that is something else that you hear than the rubber dome collapsing. Perhaps it is clack, rattle or noise from friction within the switch. I don't think that I have ever heard any noise from the dome itself.
As it happens, I have three types of rubber sheets of domes next to me that I have removed from keyboards (Keytronic, Fujitsu, Chicony) and when pressing a dome right next to my ear, I can hear no noise at all.
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...on the rubber dome that I am typing on now, most of the noise does not come from click (it is not clicky), clack (dampened by rubber) or from rattle (it is a good rubber dome), but from when the keys bounce back to the top after I have released them.
Same with the HHKB Lite.
Well, iMav and itlnstln stated that "clack" is understood to cover both bottom-out and top-out. So, I'm willing to go along with that.
Playing with my keyboards here, it seems to me that top-out and rattle are mechanically the same thing.
You know...we haven't covered the noise it makes when you whack your neighbor with it.