I've seen plenty of ANSI. It's probably because of laptops. I noticed many laptops have the STUPID european enter key. It infuriates me when I see that pathetic vertically long enter key.
Same for me. The big IBM 122 key terminal board can get away with that, but on a tiny laptop I really don't understand that waste of space.
Here in Germany and most other European countries which have the stupid enter key in their layout, it is next to impossible to find a laptop with ANSI layout.
Surely, for some manufactureres it is much cheaper to produce only one style (unfortunatly the wrong one).
I have no problem using ANSI layout and those damn umlauts äöå. I really prefer the enter and Lshift keys of the ANSI layout. that alone is enough reason for me to keep using this layout. The other big reason is keyboard availability in ISO layouts. Ekaros can probably tell more of his frustration with the lack of new ISO layout mechanical keyboards.
I spend a lot of time in bash so the \| key is essential to me and I get confused when I'm on an ISO layout board. ANSI is much better for me and there's plenty of laptops with ANSI layout here, but there's others with ISO boards too for some reason.
In the end it's pretty much what you have gotten used to.
I find the ISO layout and the various "Euro" variations amusing considering that the Chinese can type 30,000 different characters using the ANSI layout, but those smug Westerners require dedicated keys for 4 vowels with umlauts or whatnot.
I like the big enter... feels reaffirming to smash at the end of inputting something smart =D And a third layer is sort of non-optional to us swedes anyhow. In our layout there are other more useless keyes to remap the potential loss of "\|" to.
I actually hit the Enter key with my ring finger.
Latex with the babel package or whichever it is supports all sort of characters. Having them on a third layer would be a real pain... Imagine having a few of the english characters located there =P Q and W aren't really used in swedish though. Moving them and perhaps X out would do the trick I guess. Then how would I type on GH? =) But really, as I tried to point out. The total number of keys is not the problem. I don't mind having some of the special characters on the third level.
In the end it's pretty much what you have gotten used to.
Yep, it's there, it's big, it's just great to hit it with one finger and be done with it...
I like the big enter... feels reaffirming to smash at the end of inputting something smart =D And a third layer is sort of non-optional to us swedes anyhow. In our layout there are other more useless keyes to remap the potential loss of "\|" to.
cat file.txt | grep dog
As for the accented characters, I do get that you use them a lot, but what's wrong with the mac system of the option layer on the keys? Just remap caps lock to option, and you'd be good to go, without moving from home row for the most part.
Um, quadibloc, what key between Z and left shift on the ANSI layout are you talking about? I can't seem to find anything there on any of my ANSI keyboards...Oops. I try to be so careful, but it's so hard not to get the two names confused...
Did you mean ISO?
Well, nothing wrong with it per se, except that it would suck to type on. If you don't think so, remap your letter b to Ctrl-b for a month and then tell me how you liked it.
BTW are modifier keys a "mac system"?
Some PC layouts (including UK/Irish) have an Alt-Gr key which has a similar effect to the Option layer. Not sure who came up with the idea first.
I just wondered about Return-key too. Why isn't it in place of Caps Lock? Would be way easier to reach on both ansi and iso...Well, the Enter key belongs in the position of the Carriage Return key, and the Caps Lock key belongs in the position of the Shift Lock key.
Well, the Enter key belongs in the position of the Carriage Return key, and the Caps Lock key belongs in the position of the Shift Lock key.
It would be confusing to give computer keyboards a different layout than that of typewriter keyboards.
Boy, americans really are as ignorant and conservative as their reputation =D
I hope you do realise that the pipe is relocated to a different key, not even too hard to get to, on other layouts... On a swedish layout it's located on the extra key between shift and z together with < and >. No characters are impossible to get. Sure, I hardly think it was designed by a programmer but I don't get that impression from ANSI layout either... And of course the "logical" layout of all characters are possible to change around. I'm strongly considering moving all right hand characters two keys outwards. I much rather prefer reaching a bit further towards the middle with my index fingers. Personally I don't mind a few special characters requireing a little extra effort. I hardly type code or commands at hundreds of words a minute anyways. I don't type text that fast either but I would still hate to have any of the 29 alphabeth characters on another level. And there is really no necessity to either...
Some of use also use | regularly in Bash.Code: [Select]cat file.txt | grep dog
grep dog file.txtI often just use ctrl-j anyway
That's a really silly way of looking at it.
I'm Hungarian, we have 9 accented letters in addition to the letters of the English alphabet. A lot of them are in the top right corner area you can only reach with your right little finger, one is in the bottom left corner. The upshot is that it is possible (barely) to give each character its own key and allow reasonably normal typing. 3 letters are near the backspace key which is pretty awful, but it's still better than resorting to keycombos. I mean, would you like to have to press, say, AltGr-o to get a u letter? and Shift-AltGr-o to get a capital U? Of course not.
Obviously, the Chinese had no chioce, there is no practical way of accommodating all their characters. That's a totally different situation.
On another note, I hate the small ANSI enter key with a fiery passion. When I bought my laptop, I made sure it had a proper big enter.
Part of the reason for the tall enter in the ISO layout may be that we have another key between the L and the enter. On an ANSI keyboard it's K, L, :, *, Enter. On Hungarian keyboards it's K, L, É, Á, Ű, Enter. That means you can't just reach over with your little finger to hit Enter, you have to move your whole hand - so you need a bigger target if you want to be able to hit it witout looking. I actually hit the Enter key with my ring finger.Show Image(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Hungarian_keyboard_layout.svg/500px-Hungarian_keyboard_layout.svg.png)
Honestly, it's about time that foreign languages just ditched the accents on letters when it comes to computers. That would make computer input much simpler.
why not ban english from user interfaces
And don't forget that | and \ are used extensively in programming and markup languages. Plus #, which is really convenient on an ANSI board, but I seem to recall not nearly as convenient on an ISO board. At least the UK layout, it's a pain in the ass to get to.
` and ~ are also extensively used in UNIX land and programming.
Maybe that's the biggest difference, I think. Many programming languages come out of the US, and so the characters used by the language are mostly based on the ANSI layout, and so the ANSI layout tends to be the most convenient for programming. After all, you will just not be using anything other than ASCII in C, for instance, except *possibly* in strings -- and then only if you are using the wchar type or a unicode aware string package. But none of the actual control will be in anything other than ASCII characters.
Which are all that you can find on an ANSI board. ISO boards tend to have other characters, that are not in the ASCII set.
No, the ANSI enter key is faster because you don't have to move your hand far at all to hit it on the utmost left of it. Whereas ISO enter you have to move your hand ALL THE WAY to the right.I have to move my hand to hit enter on either
Also, to make a question mark, with ANSI you simply swipe the right shift and slash key. Quick.
So in terms of efficiency, ANSI is faster.
Nice, we're making progress! I'm really looking forward to the day when the books finally start to print ancient greek quotes in plain and simple english letters and symbols such as the Perseus Project's transcription (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu):mh=nin a)/eide qea\ *phlhi+a/dew *)axilh=os ou)lom\enhn, h(\ muri/' *a)xaioi=s a)/lge' e)/qhke[/SIZE]
looks so much more appealing and certainly more modern than those stupid old greek hieroglyphicsμῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε[/SIZE]
It would also be much more convenient for beginners if we standardized the letters in all existing languages to those used in english, since nobody would have to learn any strange new symbols. It would really be a leap towards a better future for all of mankind.
Chris
we could cut down those
eksperts r alrdy vurkn on dis prop
/txtmsg
... APL ...
Honestly, it's about time that foreign languages just ditched the accents on letters when it comes to computers. That would make computer input much simpler.
Also, to make a question mark, with ANSI you simply swipe the right shift and slash key. Quick.
Honestly, it's about time that foreign languages just ditched the accents on letters when it comes to computers. That would make computer input much simpler.
Honestly, it's about time that foreign languages just ditched the accents on letters when it comes to computers. That would make computer input much simpler.
Typewriter legacy perhaps?No. In Ireland, in France, in Germany, typewriters did not normally have a key between the letter Z and the shift key.
I have no idea if you actually meant that
In Ireland,
No. In Ireland, in France, in Germany, typewriters did not normally have a key between the letter Z and the shift key.
Actually, while you're at it, why not ban languages other than english....