geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 21 December 2010, 17:15:30

Title: Dell KB1421 (OptiPlex) rubberdome
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 21 December 2010, 17:15:30

Just curious whether anyone's tried Dell's latest OptiPlex rubberdome:

(http://telcontar.net/store/hosted/fora/Dell-KB1421-1.jpg)

(http://telcontar.net/store/hosted/fora/Dell-KB1421-2.jpg)

(http://telcontar.net/store/hosted/fora/Dell-KB1421-3.jpg)

(Can't even buy it from Dell's UK website at the moment, not in black anyway, but they're coming with the new machines we get in)

Coming from the monumentally awful rattletraps that preceded them (with the protruding front row of keys and rear LED "podule" with its unviewable LEDs), it's a huge improvement in my books. Very clean, smooth and soft feel, comparable in weight to Cherry blues and not jarring like MX or scissors; ultra quiet sound with no rattle; and a curious combination of relatively low profile keys and relatively long travel, so you get the vogue look without sacrificing travel as you do with scissor keyboards, which I do not get on with.

Obviously you don't get Diatec's exquisite pad printing, but you do get tiny, subtle blue LEDs without FILCO's eye-searing brightness (if LG and Dell can do it, why can't Costar?) Also, one batch we got (maybe more) had keys sourced from two batches, one with matt finish, and one with a shiny, textured surface, and although it was mostly the main side keys in matt (tab, caps lock, backspace, enter, shift etc), one had one Windows key in each surface texture, another had a matt numpad 5 key, and they looked kinda stupid with the assortment of black and grey keys (effects of the lighting on the two textures). The one on the next desk appears free from this mistake.

I noticed recently that UK Topres are on sale now, much to my surprise. Far too expensive for a quiet keyboard (I'm holding out for the Tactile Pro 3 instead as I like noise!) so I won't know for a few more years how good a rubberdome can be, but Dell definitely impressed me there, after years of making some of the most abhorrent keyboards I've ever used.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: wanabe on Tue, 21 December 2010, 17:27:48

if nothing else, I have to say that it DOES look nice

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 21 December 2010, 17:44:06

If that keyboard is what I think it is, then it is not that new and I have tried it. They feel crisper and nicer than the "rattraps" you mention. The keys are almost flat.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 21 December 2010, 17:47:15

I've used the KB-1421 variant and I can say it's decent. Stabilization is decent (for once), and the keycaps are less scooped than before. Feedback is good.

Can't comment on the SK-8175 variant.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 21 December 2010, 17:52:25

It's nice to see keyboards turning back to the classic IBM 101/104 layout. It gets real annoying when they re-arrange the arrow cluster and Insert/Del/etc. cluster just to shave off inch of width.

Which layout would you rather use? Which looks cleaner and better-designed?
(http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/images/microsoft%20keyboard%20from%20pc%20magazine.jpg)

or

(http://telcontar.net/store/hosted/fora/Dell-OptiPlex-keyboard.jpg)
(http://cebuclassifieds.mysugboclassifieds.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/c4bca_IBM-Model-M-Keyboard.jpg)

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 21 December 2010, 17:57:08

I've tried the KB-1421 variant and it's decent. Decent tactile feedback, decent stabilization for extended keys(for once on a Dell KB), and I like the font, since it's not the usual generic Helvetica-like monolinear font with the $ sign that's not quite Helvetica. Blue LEDs are a nice touch. Overall, I think they're really nice looking keyboards. They nail the no bezel look (unlike the older "rattraps") by maintaining clean lines and keeping protrusions to a minimum, something the older "rattraps" failed at miserably.

I can also confirm that the keycaps are flatter, and rather shallow, though throw is decent. Tactile feedback is great for a domer. If I'd ever pay $22 for a rubber dome, I'd probably get one of them. I can't comment on the Sk-8175 variant though. Also, I haven't touched one in about 4 months, but I think they weighed decent and probably have a metal backplate (not sure however)

They come packaged with the newer Dell Optiplexes with the new styling (with gunmetalish mesh design), not the old ones with light silver tops/sides and black fronts.

And the old ones ("rattraps"), I will say, sucked, though I don't hate my SK-8115 that much. Keys felt cheap, the legends were thin and cheap, the whole thing looked cheap in general, the thing was featherweight and lacked a metal backplate (can you say cheap?), it had almost no stabilization except on spacebar and right shift, the deeper keys on the front row were very wobbly, and it was just plain ugly with all the protrusions and what not. I did like the wider(or deeper?) spacebar a bit though.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 21 December 2010, 18:04:23

@wanabe: that it does, although there's just something more substantial about Costar's cases (FILCO, ABS etc)

@Findecanor: I said latest/current, to set it aside from the two previous USB keyboard ranges, the rattletraps – it's been around a little while, yet you can't actually buy one from Dell in the UK!

@microsoft windows: I've used several Microsoft keyboards similar to the top one, with the varying alpha key widths – extremely weird. The Dell rattletraps moved Print Screen/Scroll Lock/Pause off to the top-right so that you can't press Win+Break (System Properties) with one hand any more.

I don't prefer any layout but it's less painful to maintain consistency unless there's a very good reason for change, e.g. the HHKB, or keyboards that otherwise aim to move commonly used keys closer to the home row. For example, you could move the number pad to the left side for ease of reach. Choosing layouts to completely replace the old IBM layout, though, is a whole other topic.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 21 December 2010, 18:08:25

I've tried the KB-1421 variant and it's decent. Decent tactile feedback, decent stabilization for extended keys(for once on a Dell KB), and I like the font, since it's not the usual generic Helvetica-like monolinear font with the $ sign that's not quite Helvetica. Blue LEDs are a nice touch. Overall, I think they're really nice looking keyboards. They nail the no bezel look (unlike the older "rattletraps") by maintaining clean lines and keeping protrusions to a minimum, something the older "rattletraps" failed at miserably. If I'd ever pay $22 for a rubber dome, I'd probably get one of them. I can't comment on the Sk-8175 variant though. Also, I haven't touched one in about 4 months, but I think they weighed decent and probably have a metal backplate (not sure however)

They come packaged with the newer Dell Optiplexes with the new styling (with gunmetalish mesh design), not the old ones with light silver tops/sides and black fronts.

And the old ones ("rattletraps"), I will say, sucked. The keycaps felt cheap, the legends were thin and cheap, the whole thing looked cheap in general, the thing was featherweight and lacked a metal backplate (can you say cheap?), it had almost no stabilization except on spacebar and right shift, the deeper keys on the front row were very wobbly, and it was just plain ugly with all the protrusions and what not. I did like the wider(or deeper?) spacebar a bit though, and I will admit my Sk-8115 has great tactile feedback for a rubber dome board though.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 21 December 2010, 18:15:23

@pylon: rattletrap, "a shaky, rattling object, as a rickety vehicle." – my name for them because of the awful rattle they emit even new. Especially the previous midnight grey ones, with the softer keys. [Edit: I was sure you wrote "ratttrap" but maybe sleep deprivation has left me delusional. Christmas break is looming fast! And then TP3 in the new year. And now I'm really curious about Topres ...]

(We're getting the new ones with OptiPlex 380s (black plastic front, metal sides -- just bog standard machines) – sounds like you're referring to the 980s with the mesh fronts. I do love the look of those, but the PSUs are way too lame and they don't support PCI-e power. (No biggie for a large case PC as you can swap the PSU, but if you want a low profile PC, no use there even if they do support full size video cards via a riser. I'll keep my old GX270 a bit longer until someone introduces a decent 500+ W PCIe power low-profile PC, or my poor old PC explodes. Then I'd have to decide whether Linux or Windows 7 would be more excruciating.))

When I got my first FILCO, I was dismayed by how light it was. Then I gave away my cheapish Trust scissor, and compared that to a rattletrap Dell, and realised that the scissor in fact contained a metal plate as it was twice the weight of a cheap Dell. Its new owner remarked that it didn't slide around his desk like the Dell keyboard did. The FILCO is heavy, but my scissor keyboard was also a very decent weight.

The new Dells seem to be light but with more grippy feet -- not sure there.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 21 December 2010, 18:43:07

Hmm, I thought all of the older styled Optiplexes came with the older "rattletrap" design.

As for naming them rattletraps, I would partly agree because their extended keys wobble like mad, though I've seen rubberdomes that rattle a lot more (namely HP's SK-2565).

I think we need a new name for them. I think around here, they're referred to as the black Dell keyboards, the bezelless Dell keyboards, or simply as "those awful Dells". For the last one, any one of us who's ever been in a computer lab or in an office environment that uses Dells would probably immediate know what's being referred to.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 22 December 2010, 16:44:28

Edit: posted some better photos. Should have calibrated my camera's white balance first, but, oh well. I've given them a spot of colour balance to help out.

The keyboard is so nice, I think I'm starting to understand why Topres are so popular! Except Topre keyboards are hideous. Maybe with Topre you're let off from having LED bleed.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:00:20

thanks for the review Daniel :)

do you have a model number for that dell?

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:01:43

No. I'll read it off tomorrow.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:12:56

Also, can you check if Dell actually uses metal stabilizers on keys other than space bar or right shift on your board (e.g. under backspace or numpad + or enter)? The KB-1421 I tried had much more stable extended keys than the older Dells, but I can't confirm metal stabilizers.

Dell's cheaped at least partly on metal stabilizers since the Quietkey days. The RT7D5JTW lacked metal stabilizers on backspace and the numpad extended keys (though they didn't wobble anywhere near as much as later boards because they used a better plunger design). My SK-8125 (midnight gray) lacked stabilizers on all except on right shift and space bar, and the rattletraps (SK-8115, L100, etc.) are the same, except it seems tolerances got lowered and the extended keys wobble a good deal worse than on the SK-8125.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:17:04

Used these in college. Just like any Dell keyboard they're perfectly mediocre, not good, but not horrible either.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:31:30

On testing again earlier, I have to correct myself in that they definitely require more force than a Cherry MX brown. I find browns just too soft, blues too. I'm not very graceful and although MX browns feel deliciously tactile when you adjust to them correctly (as I do sometimes, for fleeting moments), I like something stiffer, but not quite as heavy going as buckling spring or XMs (though the former is great fun to pound away on). That's another reason I'm eager to give Fukkas a go when the UK layout TP3 comes out in the new year -- to see if it hits the sweet spot of force. Rubberdomes though are also softer on your fingers, where MX, scissors and particularly ALPS switches are quite harsh, for those who can't help but bottom out.

What worries me about Topres is their being very light, and that is just not what I want. The expense is just far too great to warrant my buying one as a test!

As for the depicted model being as mediocre as the previous models, I don't feel that way. The previous model, in jet black, is pointlessly stiff and rubbery in feeling -- can't stand them. Before that it was the Midnight Grey variant, softer, more rattly, and in use it feels like every key is clogged up with wet sand, or like you're walking through snow (in winter it felt just like walking in snow). I don't know if they were made like that or whether it's due to rubber degradation with age.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:48:52

I think it both cases you encountered some well worn ones. Ones that are in decent condition are usable, but the ones that have some wear or damage are pretty horrible alright.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:51:31

I've never used a new Midnight Grey model. I've used both new and old black ones, and they're awful from new, including a degree of the nasty rattling that the grey ones suffer from.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 22 December 2010, 18:12:31

My Sk-8115 (one of the rattlers) had decent feedback when I got it new and I think they were quite decent and nowhere near stiff...one of the lightest rubberdomes I have ever used.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 22 December 2010, 18:17:10

Google Images tells me that the SK-8115 is the later, jet black rattler -- maybe it's country or batch dependent, as the jet black ones I've used have all been particularly stiff.

That's one advantage of Cherry MX -- universally recognised parts and universally recognised behaviour! And should you need to replace an obsolete board, you can just find another suitable keyboard with the same switches.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Thu, 23 December 2010, 06:32:46

Quote from: msiegel;267470

do you have a model number for that dell?

It is indeed a KB1421.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: elef on Thu, 23 December 2010, 07:48:47

Quote from: microsoft windows;266917

It gets real annoying when they re-arrange the arrow cluster and Insert/Del/etc. cluster just to shave off inch of width.

Which layout would you rather use? Which looks cleaner and better-designed?

Show Image

(http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/images/microsoft%20keyboard%20from%20pc%20magazine.jpg)

or

Show Image

(http://telcontar.net/store/hosted/fora/Dell-OptiPlex-keyboard.jpg)

The top one, 100%. I wouldn't be seen dead with that particular keyboard, but I absolutely love that del/home/end/pgup/pgdn array. All the keys are so much easier to hit without looking, I find it an obvious improvement over the traditional layout. The large delete just makes sense, and the insert key is much better placed in the top row where you don't keep hitting it accidentally.

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Thu, 23 December 2010, 16:35:51

Quote from: Pylon;267474

Also, can you check if Dell actually uses metal stabilizers on keys other than space bar or right shift on your board (e.g. under backspace or numpad + or enter)? The KB-1421 I tried had much more stable extended keys than the older Dells, but I can't confirm metal stabilizers.

It does, yes; nicely greased, which you can see on the 0/Ins key:

(http://telcontar.net/store/hosted/fora/Dell-KB1421-stabilisers-1.jpg)

I also noticed that the stabilised keys have nifty guides to ensure that the stabilisers go back in place nicely:

(http://telcontar.net/store/hosted/fora/Dell-KB1421-stabilisers-2.jpg)

Seems a little out of place on a keyboard that's not designed to be serviced. The Midnight Grey rattler stabiliser on the right shift key is some nasty piece of loose plastic that is impossible to get back into position, and the number pad keys appear not to have stabilisers (I popped off either + or Enter and it was just a normal key underneath).

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 23 December 2010, 16:45:20

wow:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-LOT-10-Dell-Keyboard-SK8175-KB1421-like-M643H-/220711931834?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item336374cfba

Title: (Current) Dell OptiPlex keyboard
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 23 December 2010, 17:23:08

Quote from: Daniel Beardsmore;268016

Seems a little out of place on a keyboard that's not designed to be serviced. The Midnight Grey rattler stabiliser on the right shift key is some nasty piece of loose plastic that is impossible to get back into position, and the number pad keys appear not to have stabilisers (I popped off either + or Enter and it was just a normal key underneath).

Rock. Dell finally stops cheaping out on stabilization (the black rattlers had next to none and as a result were extremely wobbly). If I recall, even my former Quietkey RT7D5JTW lacked metal stabilizers on the numpad 0/Ins, Enter, and + keys.