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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: bladamson on Wed, 22 December 2010, 09:11:20

Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Wed, 22 December 2010, 09:11:20: Hey everyone!

So it seems that, after 15 years, I've finally worn out my model M. :< So I've been doing some window shopping.... I've been needing a decent USB keyboard for a while anyway.

It's pretty much come down to either a Das or a Unicomp, since I can't find a model F AT anywhere. But I can't decide which. Considering that I tend to rest so much weight on my fingertips, I'm afraid that the cherry blue switches in the Das will activate too easily when I am slopping code around at 4am coffee-deprivation hour.

Unfortunately, I live out at the far end of the middle of nowhere, so there's nowhere even remotely close that I know of to try the cherry blues before ordering something.

Are there any long-time model M users here who have made the switch to cherry blue switches? How was the experience? Did you prefer the cherry blue switches after you got used to them?

Thanks much!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 22 December 2010, 09:19:31: Many around here have tried both Blue Cherry keyboards, and Buckling Spring keyboards. Some prefer the Cherries because they are lighter. Some prefer the Buckling Springs because the tactility is more substantial and the keyboards that use them are better built. From your description, and if you've been happy with a Model M for 15 years, you will probably prefer a new Unicomp.

If you are considering a Cherry board, wait for Elitekeyboards to stock Leopold boards which promise to be more interesting than some of the stuff currently on the market.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: HaaTa on Wed, 22 December 2010, 09:40:57: If you don't mind waiting for a board on Ebay or the like, the Model F AT is an excellent option as well (not usb, but awesome nonetheless).
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Wed, 22 December 2010, 11:02:15: It's pretty grody. >_> Lemme clean it up a bit soon(tm) and I'll see if I can get hold of a decent camera...

The alphabetic keys are all pretty shiny, except for J and Q. The ink is wearing off of E, O, A, S, D, C, N (and W, R, U, I, L, M, and left-crtl to a lesser extent - just starting to fade).

It's a gray-label with the detachable cable. It came off of an old 3270 terminal, though it is the usual PC keyboard, not one of the terminal keyboards with all the extra keys. Might not have been the original keyboard.

PN 1391401
FRU 1392090
ID 7105474
Date 02OCT91

It's been a darn good keyboard, used to hack code almost daily since the mid 90s. Really, the only thing wrong with it is left shift sticking very very badly. I've cleaned it out well and replaced the shift key and spring with parts off another model M with some dead keys on it, lubed it up with silicon spray, and it hasn't helped. :s It kinda jams down sideways if you don't hold your mouth juuuust right, and gets stuck until you hit it on the left edge to free it.

In other news, I ordered a rather used Model F PC/AT with a din5->ps2 adapter from clickykeyboards at a rather exorbitant price (but hopefully worthwhile, if it's not already too worn out to get a few year's work out of). Hopefully the AT model is as good as the XT model was. I hacked a lot of pascal on one of those things back in the day....

Edit- Not a 3270 lolol. 5250.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:50:00: We couldn't find batteries for the real camera, and had to use a crappy laptop-integrated webcam instead. Sorry for the low quality.

Anyway, here's some shiny and worn-thin ink for you. :P
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 22 December 2010, 17:57:03: An IBM or a Unicomp should suit you well.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 22 December 2010, 18:53:35: so *that's* your secret profession, tech support for cam performers! ;)
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 22 December 2010, 19:02:12: Some of those earlier Model Ms have pretty bad stabilizer inserts for large keys. The right shift on my SSK is a bit sticky, even with a new spring. Replacing the stabilizer insert, possibly with one from a lesser used key like Numpad Plus, could fix it.

Now, removing one of those things without breaking the keyboard apart might prove to be interesting...
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Wed, 22 December 2010, 21:26:55: Someone corrects me if I am wrong, but I don't think there are many keyboards out there that can take so much abuse over so many years like the IBM Model M can. And this is one of the reasons, I think, that make the IBM Model M the king of keyboards.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: iMav on Wed, 22 December 2010, 21:47:54: If you don't want the Unicomp logo, they will sell you logo-less LED stickers if you ask for them. I've got a pile of them on my desk.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 22 December 2010, 21:47:58: yes... buckling spring keyboards were designed as office equipment. back when there were professional typists, that really meant something :)

the model f switch mechanism is rated at 100M actuations.

typing 120 WPM nonstop, 8 hrs/day, every work day of the year, the life expectancy of the most-used switch (under the space bar) would be 7 years.

for a $350 keyboard, that comes to only $4 a month. an excellent value for any serious business! :D
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 22 December 2010, 21:48:56: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;267580
the king of keyboards

yes... buckling spring keyboards were designed as office equipment. back when there were professional typists, that really meant something :)

the model f switch mechanism is rated for 100M actuations.

typing 120 WPM nonstop, 8 hrs/day, every work day of the year, the life expectancy of the most-used switch (under the space bar) would be 7 years.

for a $350 keyboard, that comes to only $4 a month. an excellent value for any serious business! :D
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: Oqsy on Wed, 22 December 2010, 23:51:40: I have 2 IBM and 2 Unicomp model Ms, and the differences are negligible (no more difference between any single IBM and Unicomp M than there were between a UK IBM and a KY Lexmark.) The Unicomp boards feel and sound SLIGHTLY different, but without the two side by side you'd be hard pressed to notice. Unicomp is our best kept secret. Fortunately, they don't seem to keen on revealing themselves and reclaiming control of the keyboard market any time soon.

Ahem, SPACE SAVER! NEW COLORS! COMPETE DAMN YOU!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Thu, 23 December 2010, 02:21:23: Quote from: ch_123;267523
Some of those earlier Model Ms have pretty bad stabilizer inserts for large keys. The right shift on my SSK is a bit sticky, even with a new spring. Replacing the stabilizer insert, possibly with one from a lesser used key like Numpad Plus, could fix it.

Now, removing one of those things without breaking the keyboard apart might prove to be interesting...

I'll try that here once I've had my coffee. Thank you! By insert, I assume you mean the plastic barrel rather than the metal bar? I've replaced the whole key, but I didn't realize that the barrel was removable. :3

Will the keyswitch board from any of the Unicomps fit into a model M enclosure and hook to the electronics, just out of curiosity? I have another one that's in far better shape, except the 7UJM column is dead.

I still have that Model F on the way though. :P I really do think it's time. The keys on this one feel a good bit sloppier than those on my broken parts donor board, and I like the unix layout of those things.

I've been entertaining thoughts of opening it up and putting the board out of a USB converter inside of it, so as to not have all that converter junk hanging off the back of my box, and so I can hook it to the laptop... It looks like there's plenty of extra space up near the top.

Also been reading on here about the backspace mods. Has anyone tried cutting traces on the board and jumping the pads for the backslash key to the right place with like #30 connection wire and a little solder and nail polish, rather than remapping in software?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Thu, 23 December 2010, 02:27:42: Quote from: bladamson;267658
I'll try that here once I've had my coffee. Thank you!

!!!!!!!!

Good as new! Lol.

Well, not really. The spring isn't buckling right, but it's not sticking anymore, anyway.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: Cheese101 on Thu, 23 December 2010, 04:13:59: Quote from: Oqsy;267608
I have 2 IBM and 2 Unicomp model Ms, and the differences are negligible (no more difference between any single IBM and Unicomp M than there were between a UK IBM and a KY Lexmark.) The Unicomp boards feel and sound SLIGHTLY different, but without the two side by side you'd be hard pressed to notice. Unicomp is our best kept secret. Fortunately, they don't seem to keen on revealing themselves and reclaiming control of the keyboard market any time soon.

Ahem, SPACE SAVER! NEW COLORS! COMPETE DAMN YOU!

They're content to just sort of ride off into the sunset.
What happens when the 4 folks working there retire? Will they hire any new employees to replace them? I reckon they could at least triple their sales with all black and spacesaver models if they ever could get over the hurdles involved in making them.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Fri, 24 December 2010, 06:38:34: i prefer the feel of the blue cherrys. i like the das the best with those switches. the unicomp is simply a better built keyboard though. why can't anyone make a good quality blue cherry board anymore?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 24 December 2010, 09:49:17: Quote from: bladamson;267658
Will the keyswitch board from any of the Unicomps fit into a model M enclosure and hook to the electronics, just out of curiosity? I have another one that's in far better shape, except the 7UJM column is dead.

Unicomp's internal assemblies will only fit inside the 42H1292 style Model Ms - i.e. most of the ones made from 1996 onwards. If you have an oldschool Model M like the 1391401, it won't fit.

You can repair dead traces on Model Ms easily enough. The challenge however is getting to the membrane, and sticking the thing back together again. It would take a day's work.

Quote
why can't anyone make a good quality blue cherry board anymore?

It's not just the keyboards, the Blue Cherry switches themselves are quite temperamental compared to a buckling spring mechanism.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 26 December 2010, 15:17:26: i was wondering what peoples experience with das vs. unicomp legends is. i have pretty caustic hands. both my lasered keys and dye sub look like his pictures of the dye subs on the first page of this post.
i wear them both pretty good but it takes years to completely wear them off.
they start to fade on me within 2 weeks if they are lasered or dye sub. topre as well. only ds lasts me for years like new.

plus 25m keystrokes vs. 50m. that might not be a big deal though because cherrys tend to fail well before 50m. the unicomp probably lasts the full 25m or more. it is a less complex switch.

i always read here dye sub does not wear. i think the op's photo's are proof it does. the only difference is my unicomp spacesaver looked like that in two weeks! intrestingly the das took about 45 days before it looked like that. other people wore the legends clear off the das in a week.

i have wore out a topre. the legends are broken lines and it is super shiny. i guess pbt vs. abs does not matter either if you have funky hands. well, maybe it is not even my chemistry. i simply type over 100 hours a week! so, what is usual wear for most people happens to me in a matter of months. i have actually failed a new model m back in the day! yes, i hit over 100m keystrokes or there abouts. or whatever it took to fail several keys.
i guess the bottom line is ymmv.

i was just wondering if the unicomp legends tend to last most "normal" people longer than the das. barring the das' that rubbed off straight away.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 26 December 2010, 15:25:19: @_@

you're an actual typist.

the only thing that could survive that kind of punishment for more than 3 years is an otaku model f... or maybe a black cherry board with double shot keys :)
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 26 December 2010, 15:41:09: i am actually surprised at myself that i wore dye sub so quickly. i guess you are right, forgo the legends alltogether and go otaku. i don't need the legends anyhow. i touch type wpm i won't even metion as not to be taken seriously lol. yeah, thats what i do i type.

well, i have an old idea. there are a bunch of old cherry corp boards in the storage room. i am going to try to get ds keys on the das. i really do like the das overall. the only issue is that even if i find black keys they will probably not match the das' frame. who cares though. other than that i might order some otaku's. good idea, thanks! i don't mind shiny. having half a legend might not have them to begin with. the worn letters look like poop.

it takes about 2 years to blow the switches. which i don't mind. i can do without the worn legends in two weeks.

oh btw, thats how i cheat and hit the high wpm i don't shift. as you have noticed :). of course if code requires shift i do.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 26 December 2010, 15:53:33: you mean... with an X?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 26 December 2010, 16:02:39: the pic could be very improved for reference. you can clearly see what happened though. it "thinned out". what intrests me is how long he states it took him. that takes me a few months. as has been noticed i use the sh!t out of a keyboard though. so it is not really any particular keyboard that wears quicker. it is just very heavy use. which in turn accelerates the life span of the board of course. i know people that just use a computer to casually browse the internet and their $10 logitech board looks brand new after a year.

when people state wear around here they should also state how much they used it and if they have funky hands. i have been honest about both.

i wonder if the legends on a unicomp last longer than the das for average people. in contrast to your findings, ripster i have found the das' lettering to be pretty decent. to me it is a toss up but i do not put average use on them.

now, i have to go hunt for those ds keys in the dungeon! i don't expect the spacing to be perfect but it should work out better than half rubbed off legends.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Sun, 26 December 2010, 16:33:27: Quote from: ripster;269190
Where did the OP go?

This pic "could be improved".

I'm still around. But I'm snowed in and won't have access to a camera until I can get out of my driveway. :P
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Sun, 26 December 2010, 16:58:32: Quote from: typo;269198
when people state wear around here they should also state how much they used it and if they have funky hands. i have been honest about both.

Iunno exact wear figures. I don't really keep track. I've had 5 different Ms in my life. One of them came into my hoard about 17 years ago (an '88 board) and the other 4 about 14 ('91 boards). The board that the key pics are from is one of the younger ones. Over the years, two of the boards have broken as a result of particularly tantrum-prone children and exes pounding on them, one was given away, and one was lost. Back when I had more than one working one, they got shuffled up every time I rearranged my computer room and cleaned keycaps, so up until about 5 years ago, the board in question didn't see constant use.

My skin is somewhat dry and entirely non-funky.

But... It's just a keyboard with worn keys. Lol.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 26 December 2010, 17:06:13: Quote from: typo;269177
plus 25m keystrokes vs. 50m. that might not be a big deal though because cherrys tend to fail well before 50m. the unicomp probably lasts the full 25m or more. it is a less complex switch.

Agreed. I remember when I started getting interested in keyboards, the spec for Blue Cherries was 20 million presses. Then suddenly it was bumped up to 50 million out of nowhere, without any change to the switch design.

Of course, this is the same 50 million expected presses switch that will stop clicking if a single hair gets lodged into any of the conveniently located gaps around the bottom of the switch.

Quote
i was just wondering if the unicomp legends tend to last most "normal" people longer than the das.

Yes, definitely.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 26 December 2010, 17:09:40: lol, ripster. you are actually correct about that. strangely my best looking key! hmmm.

dude, if you live where there is snow you need a used jeep for the winter. it can pay for itself in one winter with a plow on it!

i made like $1,200 in the last 48 hours plowing! heck, if i could do comercial i'd be only working in the winter!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Sun, 26 December 2010, 17:13:59: Quote from: typo;269223
dude, if you live where there is snow you need a used jeep for the winter. it can pay for itself in one winter with a plow on it!

The WV DOT is supposed to plow here, but they never do. -_-'
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 26 December 2010, 20:24:00: i asked this a long time ago but i think it went unanswered. i don't have a spacesaver here at the moment.

if anyone has a ruler and spacesaver handy could you please tell me: how long in inches is the keyboard from the bottom of the frame to the top of the function keys?

i know the frame is 7.1 inches.

i tried to look it up but the new google search on this site blows. i understand the financial concerns of the sites owner however.

thanks.

edit: found it. it was answered.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Mon, 27 December 2010, 08:57:33: actually the guy said 5.5" from the bottom of the frame to the top of the func keys. it seems like more than that. darnit where is mine i can't find it!

i need to put a different keyboard tray on for boards more than 5.5" to the top of the func keys and it is a royal pain in the butt. maybe that is why i am not using it, i am not sure.

if anyone kindly cares to measure theirs please.....

eidt: nevermind, i found mine! it is not even 5.5 inches. it is on my tray now. oh yes, it is! that is odd though, it looks bigger than the das but it is not.

man, i wish they would make a hhkb style keyboard otaku. that would be the sh!t! i doubt they will though since this is office equipment.

thanks.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Mon, 27 December 2010, 14:11:22: as usual ripster, you are too funny.

you know what? i tend to wear out dye sub faster than good laser. i don't think it is so much my funky hands as abrasion that wears them out. then of course the laser would last longer. since you have to wear down the whole key past the grrove to wipe out the legends. yeah, they put some on top outside of the groove to make the contrast higher. i wear that off in a couple of weeks. my dye subs just rub off whereas the lasers fade but retain the complete legend.

i guess different strokes for different folks then. i do maintain i prefer blue cherrys though. so the das quickly wen't back on my tray. buckling springs and topre's are not really mechanical switches which i just seem to prefer.

as for the cherry's getting full of hair. there are a lot of cat's around here and i am my own serviceman as well. the cherry's are very serviceable and individually replaceable. as are the keycaps of course. overall, with work a mx board can stay in service much longer than a ibm/unicomp or topre imo. when one key fails on the other boards afaik ,game over. this is important to me because i use these boards like a monkey eats bananas. please, no monkey joke ripster!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 27 December 2010, 14:21:54: model m was the first ibm keyboard where individual switches were non-serviceable, if i'm remembering the ibm wiki correctly. unfortunately this was inherited by the unicomp versions.

btw, what kind of desk/chair/tray/monitor setup do you have? since you type so much, i'm curious if it's unusual :)
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Mon, 27 December 2010, 14:37:29: I superglue sandpaper to my fingertips when I type. It helps me grip the keys better.

Sorry. I couldn't resist being snarky. It's all in good fun. ;P
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Mon, 27 December 2010, 14:39:01: I type so hard that I break each of my fingers off at the second joint, leaving only bloody stumps with which I flail at the keys ineffectually in a blind rage-haze of pain.

...

...

Thank goodness for Lexmark-era drainage channels.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Mon, 27 December 2010, 14:49:56: *cues up the Cure and types hard*
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: woody on Mon, 27 December 2010, 14:56:38: Not related to key wear, but in a thread (maybe old) I saw a photo of a guy's bent pinky, supposedly Emacs fan. Then I looked at my pinkies and .... my right one is slightly bent. ZOMG.

EDIT: I'm not Emacs user, to begin with. Damn.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Mon, 27 December 2010, 15:00:53: I hear that proximity to Emacs users can cause sympathetic finger-bending.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: woody on Mon, 27 December 2010, 15:10:43: Computers lead to mutations, I tell you!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: woody on Mon, 27 December 2010, 15:26:22: Yep, that picture.

Mine is not bent that much, but still differs from the seemingly straight left pinky when compared.
Have you compared yours?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Mon, 27 December 2010, 15:27:42: Quote from: ripster;269492
Show Image
(http://www.drbill.cc/images/dilbert.png)

Favorite. Dilbert. Evar.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: woody on Mon, 27 December 2010, 15:36:07: Here's a cocktail for you:
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Mon, 27 December 2010, 17:22:41: come on guys. i don't type hard at all. i just type a lot.

to the person that asked. a hon desk and a herman miller chair. not that intresting. i do not use arm or wrist rests.

i like the das best and it has worn similar to every other keyboard i lay my hands upon. if you use anything a lot it will wear out faster. you should see what i do to professional vacuums!

i hope the troll statement was not in regards to me, i did not mean to be.

the op states he wore out dye subs rather quickly as well.

besides that i was just mentioning my personal preference. having both the das pro s and space saver.

i was going to take a picture of a dye sub "a" that is now nearly otaku but i painted the legend back on lol. i'll look for some others though.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: theferenc on Mon, 27 December 2010, 17:24:44: Quote from: ripster;269492
Emacs Pinky!!!
Show Image
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2760/4468068807_f6e6bbe8dd.jpg)

It's kinda like Unix Beards!!!
Show Image
(http://www.drbill.cc/images/dilbert.png)

Hmmm, I bet this wouldn't happen with proper control key placement. Put it where god intended, and there is no need to curl your pinky under in distressing ways.

Also, I love that dilbert comic. I forgot about the suspender aspect of being a UNIX beard. I thought that was just my personal idiosyncrasy.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Mon, 27 December 2010, 18:57:38: Quote from: typo;269542
i hope the troll statement was not in regards to me, i did not mean to be.

Nawww, I was just joshin' ya. Trolling at myself more than anything. :P
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 27 December 2010, 19:03:04: Quote from: ripster;269492
It's kinda like Unix Beards!!!

(http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=269137&postcount=12)
Quote from: iMav;269137

My career was strictly UNIX administration for a long time (AIX, Solaris, UNICOS, HP/UX, etc). If it was a UNIX variant, I likely dealt with it at some time or another.
[/URL]
(http://geekhack.org/image.php?u=1&dateline=1291471329)

Now wait a minute... Is it time for another poll?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 27 December 2010, 19:08:11: quick, check for suspenders
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Mon, 27 December 2010, 19:18:04: The helmet must be to help fend off the angry hordes of lusers. :P

Ahhhh, sysadminning, I do not miss you at all...

As a joke (taking a cue from BOFH), I once wired a 120v power plug to an ethernet cable and hung it on my door. Nobody got it. And then the cable disappeared. I hope nobody tried to use it. D:=
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: iMav on Mon, 27 December 2010, 19:26:43: Quote from: ripster;269492
Emacs Pinky!!!
Show Image
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2760/4468068807_f6e6bbe8dd.jpg)

Emacs? You should see what GEEKHACK does to your fingers!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: eherzog on Mon, 27 December 2010, 23:19:09: Has my freakish handicap scared everyone away from this thread? It's ok. I'm comfortable with my extremely short, crooked fingers. You can come out of the woodwork. iMav, it's too bad that I can't simply wave my deformed hands in front of the kids and get them to quiet down like this!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 27 December 2010, 23:22:39: but i'm pretty sure...

it's from too many mac keyboard shortcuts!

command option shift 4!! ;)
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 28 December 2010, 13:47:26: Quote from: iMav;269591
Emacs? You should see what GEEKHACK does to your fingers!

Quote from: eherzog;269678
Has my freakish handicap scared everyone away from this thread? It's ok. I'm comfortable with my extremely short, crooked fingers. You can come out of the woodwork. iMav, it's too bad that I can't simply wave my deformed hands in front of the kids and get them to quiet down like this!

Did you injure your hand or have arthritis?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Tue, 28 December 2010, 17:48:00: Woah, I figured it was photoshopped. :3
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Tue, 28 December 2010, 18:33:52: guys, i have a serious question though.

for most people does abs get shiny well before pbt? i have not kept actual tabs on wich lasts me longer. i am not talking about the legends wearing but the pebble grain getting smooth.

i just thought this question was useful since the unicomps are pbt and the das is abs.

thanks
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: jpc on Tue, 28 December 2010, 18:48:26: New Unicomp keys should have a lifetime measured by geological time period.

I have a Model M from 03AUG87. Mine since 1996. I've used it on and off over the years. The key caps still have most of their texture.

I've seen Model M's with shiny key caps. Lord knows what happened to them. They must have been employed in some ****ensian data-entry mill.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Tue, 28 December 2010, 19:22:34: i have worn m,f,topre,unicomp. i think it did take longer though.

you can obviously get the idea from those pics. they are worn. he said it didn't take that long either if i remember correctly. ripster, why only your spacebar? i tend to always wear out the wasd first and i don't game. my spacebar is the one key that doesn't get shiny! that is strange.

i can see what keys i use the most but it does not make sense to me. maybe i type too hard afterall plus i have nails but they certainly are not long. i do feel myself hitting the keys with my nails. maybe that is the whole problem i am having with every board.

i am certainly not the best typist by any means but i just type a lot.

if it helps explain this any i also wear out the finish on decent mice. plus i just noticed my business phone handset i use a lot is shiny and that is my palm! i just don't get this. obviously it is me but i don't know what i am doing wrong. before you joke my hands and the rest of me are kept clean. so thats not it. i rarely use lotion or cologne either.

confused (:
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 28 December 2010, 19:23:47: Do you have long fingernails? People with fingernails wreak havoc on keyboards.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Tue, 28 December 2010, 19:56:26: i don't know how to explain the length of my fingernails. i do feel that is what is hitting the keys first. a standard clipper will not cut shorter without pain. i refuse to bite them lol.

if this was my problem all these years.....damn!

i don't know what other kind of clipper there is and i can't really see them being shorter. i guess they are flush with the top of the rounded part of the skin on my fingers. maybe a a 50th of an inch beyond. the fact remains they are hitting every key every time. darnit!

as for the phone i think that just got shiny because it has been in heavy use since the 80's. that probably has nothing to do with what is happening to the keyboards i use. afaik, my hands do not sweat at all in the office. i do have rough skin. i figured that would cause less damage than lotion to the keys.

i am seriously looking to you guys to figure this out. i have no problem otaku but i like the look of the fonts. there is some reason i have wrecked all these boards. i got a model f at goodwill about 2 years ago. i am sure it saw a ton of use due to it's age. it looked darn good when i got it and cleaned it up. i wore it down in 4 months!

so, is it the rough skin and fingernails? i don't know of a different nail clipper and i figured lotion would damage keys worse. what to do?

thanks
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: woody on Tue, 28 December 2010, 19:59:38: Do you have Aliens among your ancestors?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Tue, 28 December 2010, 20:06:58: Quote from: microsoft windows;270043
Do you have long fingernails? People with fingernails wreak havoc on keyboards.

Not anymore. When I moved back to this one-horse town, I had to start dressing like a normal person.

Now I bet you're wondering if I'm kiddinig or not, huh? You'll never know, mua ha ha.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Tue, 28 December 2010, 20:08:11: Quote from: ripster;270017
Try 12" FROM WEBCAM DOOOOOD!

I'm getting to it! :P

I inherited a crappy webcam a couple of hours ago, so I'm going to see if I can get it working as soon as I get all my forums surfed and spam^H^H^H^Hemail responded to...
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Tue, 28 December 2010, 21:01:33: Wow, this camera sucks. :s Sorry. These are a little better.

A heavily worn key:

A moderately worn key:

An unworn key, purely for reference of course:

Shininess:
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Tue, 28 December 2010, 21:12:03: I never thought much about it. :3 Indeed, before I came here I didn't realize there was anything hurculean-seeming about wearing down dye-sub stuff.

Since y'all seem to like it so much, maybe I'll keep using them and see if the legends ever wear all the way off... I was going to replace all my caps with some newer-looking ones dyed all black. :3
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Wed, 29 December 2010, 20:18:07: i think i figured this out. my spacebar is not shiny because i hit it with the side of my thumb. it has to be my darn nails that wreck all the other keys. i hit the keys head on with my nails and not my flesh. so, i guess that explains it.

i could not see cutting my nails shorter. so i will live with the worn down keys.

for reference. the white at the end of my clear nails is about 1/10th of an inch. i do not feel comfortable cutting them shorter. trust me, i have and it hurt for weeks.

you guys have no nails or what? well, it also might be my typing style. i do not hit the keys with the flats of my fingers but the top. this is my idea of touch typing. i hit the keys very lightly. maybe much more wear on the keyboard but i think a lot less on my hands. which is important to me.

i also use my nails on the mice which wear out quickly. at least i know what is going on now.

i am still looking for a dyesub or double shot i wore out for a pic. i seem to paint them or use a marker when they have had it.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Wed, 29 December 2010, 20:55:08: Yayyyy. Is there free food?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 29 December 2010, 21:05:57: Quote from: typo;270484
i do not feel comfortable cutting them shorter

maybe if the edges were rounder?

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=14373&stc=1&d=1293678301)
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: bladamson on Wed, 29 December 2010, 21:40:09: I must.... Stop... Wearing... My... Keys! ... Spock!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: eherzog on Thu, 30 December 2010, 00:28:55: Quote from: bladamson;269991
Woah, I figured it was photoshopped. :3
iMav smashed my hand when I touched one of his keyboards without permission. This was the best the doctors could do.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 30 December 2010, 00:45:34: keeping sweet, sweet keyboards out in the open... it was a trap!
;D
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: RoboKrikit on Thu, 30 December 2010, 02:51:07: My thumbnails do this to space bars.

(http://i.imgur.com/ONdqTl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/ONdqT.jpg)

I do tend to tap the keys with my fingernails, especially the lower row. Usually the M, N, and C keys are the first to go.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Thu, 30 December 2010, 19:43:38: i could join him in that contest even with double shots! i kid not. i can't find one so i guess i lose by forfeit :)
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Fri, 31 December 2010, 02:16:42: i realised something after rereading the key wiki. the das is one of those keyboards where they put a bunch of the paint/epoxy above the laser cut indents. they do this as a "teaser" obviously. so you will see very high contrast when the board is new. if you type a lot this will quickly rub off. leaving the low contrast typical lasered keys. like the way cherry boards come new. so what i am seeing now is actually typical lasered keys. i do maintain it has worn beter for me than dye sub, but not than ds. the keys have lost their pebble grain and become very shiny. so has every keyboard i have used. pbt takes longer but eventually ends up looking the same for me. i feel the das is a very nice keyboard overall. it does still have it's fonts. just not with as much contrast but that should be expected by anyone i think. i prefer the cherry switches to the buckling springs. i personally do not prefer the unicomps. ymmv.

now a question: isn't a unicomp just a membrane keyboard with a spring actuating the membrane instead of a rubber dome/cup? i understand it has a different feel and is tactile. however isn't the actual "switch" the same thing? hence the 25 million cycles just like a keytronic. it is not capacitive like a topre afaik.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: biziclop on Fri, 31 December 2010, 13:03:09: I'm actually using this to reduce the length of my nails:

(http://shop3.unas.hu/shop_ordered/5495/shop_pic/unas_633141.jpg)
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Fri, 31 December 2010, 13:20:13: i am dumbfounded! i seriously don't know why i never thought of a emry stone/board. duh! i just never thought of using one for some odd reason. i figured as short as the clipper would safely go was it. man i feel stupid. plus my nails would look nicer too. gee whiz.

you know what though, my keys are not scratched up. they just wear down like if i took 2000 grit sand cloth. i will go get an emry stone! i am guessing it is actually the aligator skin i have which the emry stone will also take care of.

a lot of men just don't pay enough attention to their skin/hair/nails including myself i guess.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Fri, 31 December 2010, 13:24:05: :lol:

"scotty, you've just earned your pay for the week!" XD
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 02 January 2011, 20:28:02: i was wondering if there are any double shot keys readily available that will fit this keyboard for all keys. i love this keyboard so i would do that.

thanks
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 02 January 2011, 20:40:50: thank you ripster. i am going to get to work on this. this keyboard is my favorite i ever had it justs needs more robust keys for me. the keys should be more than good enough for most folks though.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 02 January 2011, 20:48:06: i didn't edit because i wanted ripster to see this.

wow ripster! i have seen that before i did not know you were the author! nice!
thank you for the work.

here is the amazing thing: i actually know where there is one of those pos boards in a closet pile. i am hoping the people will be elated to take $25 or $50 for it.

asuming i snag the board the das will be what i always dreamed of. yeah, i don't know why i like it so much but i just do.

thanks ripster!
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Sun, 02 January 2011, 23:53:30: i have arranged to get the cherry pos keyboards tomorrow. they would not take any money! i am asssuming these do not simply plug right in. well the stabilizer keys at least. i figure to allow a couple hours or so. this is going to be fantastic. i really wish i liked my topre or f,m's better but this board just seems to have the perfect blue action for me. the filco is also from costar but i like the looks of the das. i am very happy. i just hope this does not change the action i like so much.

thanks ripster
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: db_Iodine on Mon, 03 January 2011, 03:15:18: I swapped the key caps of my Das Ultimate to those thick Cherry doubleshots (except front row), and I think the feel of the keys is so much nicer than the original blanks. I don't think the feel of the switches changed much, but definitely the keys feel much nicer on your fingers.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Tue, 04 January 2011, 23:50:05: done. ahh, thats more like it. i was afraid it would change the action in a non pleasing way. nope. the solid thunk is much appreciated. i wish they would sell this keyboard this way for say $300usd and try to compete at the top level. i'd buy one. this is darn near perfect now. the realforce and buckling springs will not be seeing my fingers for some time :)
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 04 January 2011, 23:51:49: is this the first anti-otaku das?? :D

we want pics! *clanks empty tin cup against bars* :D
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: typo on Thu, 06 January 2011, 02:32:52: look right above. other people already have them.
i think i actually want to go otaku though now after all ahh. my cherrys are already shiny but of course the legends are all there. keys with legends just look like poop wehn they are worn at all imo. are the caps on elite keyboards abs or heavy duty?
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: db_Iodine on Thu, 06 January 2011, 03:38:03: Quote from: msiegel;273374
is this the first anti-otaku das?? :D

we want pics! *clanks empty tin cup against bars* :D

I did it a month ago, and posted results in ripster's anti-otaku thread (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=263414&postcount=167). You can also find one picture from my sig.
Title: Das Keyboard vs. Unicomp Customizer?
Post by: eherzog on Fri, 07 January 2011, 21:27:55: A serious answer to your inquiry...it's not photoshop, it's a genetic mutation thing - a form of brachydactyly with some other stuff involving bone structure. Sometimes painful, but could be a lot worse. At least it's not a heart defect. I can't always reach change in vending machines, but at least it's not cutting my life short. :)