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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ajx on Wed, 19 January 2011, 13:52:30

Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: ajx on Wed, 19 January 2011, 13:52:30
advice me on which port should i connect my mechnical keyboard?
there is a mixed blessing between both of it
i honestly dunno how nkro would be benefit to me
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 19 January 2011, 14:03:15
UBS (http://www.ubs.com/)  might save you more money in the long run.  I used to connect my keyboards via UPS when I was younger, but the protocol was too slow.  It took what seemed like a week for each keystroke to get to my PC, and it was only a couple of feet away.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 19 January 2011, 15:24:32
I think that you should use PS/2 if both your keyboard and computer have it.
1) The n-KRO issue, which you seem to be aware of, and ...
2) You save one USB port that you can use for other stuff.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 19 January 2011, 15:25:50
Quote from: Findecanor;281323
I think that you should use PS/2 if both your keyboard and computer have it.


Seconded.  You will hear varying opinions, though.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: ajx on Wed, 19 January 2011, 15:45:30
what does nkro consist?
i dont think so its fully necessary
responsiveness on PS2 is it slower then usb?
i m kinda expected for it
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: spolia optima on Wed, 19 January 2011, 15:57:37
Responsiveness shouldn't be different on any noticeable level

PS/2 allows for full rollover- the same keyboard on USB will only have 6 key rollover. 6 key is good enough for just about anyone.

I recommend USB just because PS/2 is supposedly being phased out.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 19 January 2011, 16:01:42
Also, if you're adamant about getting the absolute highest performance from your computer, whether it be for games, scientific simulation, or whatever, PS/2 is a better choice due to the interrupt based nature of the protocol, as opposed to the polling based USB protocol.

USB really is a horrible horrible interface. It's chatty, it's polled, and the spec is absurdly over complicated. But it's the classic case of "good enough". Because it works for most things most of the time, it's the current standard.

There are much better standards for different purposes, but USB is good enough for most everything. And it's CHEAP. I read somewhere recently that PS/2 was dropped not because it wasn't needed anymore, but because it was actually more expensive to include than another pair of USB ports. That should tell you something right there...
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: Apocrypha on Wed, 19 January 2011, 16:07:56
Not only are most new motherboards without PS/2 ports, but I don't think ANY laptops have them anymore.

Either way, pretty much every board has USB->PS/2 cabability except for a few.

I also think PS/2 boards are the only ones that can do some of the weirder more eccentric BIOS things like keyboard power-on, where you press keys with your computer off and it will turn on.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Wed, 19 January 2011, 16:13:08
PS/2 keyboards tend to be less flaky in general. It's true that the rollover really isn't essential for most, the polling probably doesn't make a huge difference with human reaction time, and any additional resource usage is probably minimal - but I've had trouble with USB devices on some LiveCDs/BIOSes, even on recent computers, and thus I prefer PS/2 when I can use it. Saves a USB port anyways.

OCN seems more adamant about using PS/2.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 19 January 2011, 16:21:04
At some of the national labs, PS/2 ports are required on all computers, as the fraction of a percent loss in CPU cycles actually adds up to a solid amount of time over the course of a long running simulation.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: nocturn4l3030 on Wed, 19 January 2011, 17:03:17
would i lose anything in terms of responsiveness or nkro etc if i were to use usb --> ps2 converter instead of straight ps2?  was always curious about this
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: ajx on Wed, 19 January 2011, 17:21:58
Quote from: ripster;281365
UBS is a great bank for tax evasion.  Highly recommended.

The PS2 is a nice gaming platform but if you have my PS3 it's not really needed.  
Show Image
(http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2008/02/mgs4_ps3_bundle_box.jpg)


It's kinda old and obsolete.  Like PS/2 as shown in the USB Versus PS/2 Wiki. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=USB+versus+PS+2)
ahaha
my bad :(
i didnt even notice  for having written ubs instead of usb
i typed it with my first mech kb :p
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: ajx on Wed, 19 January 2011, 17:28:50
Quote from: nocturn4l3030;281377
would i lose anything in terms of responsiveness or nkro etc if i were to use usb --> ps2 converter instead of straight ps2?  was always curious about this

from my old experience of usb and ps/2 from membrane keyboard, i had a loss of responsiveness in game
maybe it would be quite different with mechanical since i didnt notice any loss of responsiveness for now
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: ajx on Wed, 19 January 2011, 17:54:57
celeritas
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: keyb_gr on Thu, 20 January 2011, 09:14:17
From my experience,

PS/2 - Just Works[tm]. Inflexible though.
USB - Has dropped a few characters under heavy load, in spite of having a dual processor system (even if it's the latest and greatest technology of like early 2000...). It's hot-pluggable and supports multiple boards though.

For mission critical tasks I'd always use a PS/2 connection. USB will do for playing around and additional boards.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 20 January 2011, 09:21:34
While I might rather use PS/2, I do have to agree with Ripster in that I have never had a problem with functionality over USB save for some BIOS stuff back in the day.  I have never seen dropped characters before.  I think the theory of how USB works in terms of keyboards (polling, CPU usage, etc.) is worse than the reality.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: keyb_gr on Thu, 20 January 2011, 09:36:07
You guys probably never used a USB 'board with a machine as slow/dated as mine here, or at least with different software (this would never occur in Word, I bet). Combine that kind of machine with the fancier text wrapping algorithm for input forms they came up with in Gecko 1.9, plus a browser that's been running for a while and consumes like 200+ megs, and you may see some. Remember my input occasionally doesn't show up for a couple of seconds here, so I must be able to type blind reliably.

Only a critical scenario like this would highlight the difference, so for most applications, USB is "good enough" indeed.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: elef on Thu, 20 January 2011, 09:53:42
Quote from: Apocrypha;281346


I also think PS/2 boards are the only ones that can do some of the weirder more eccentric BIOS things like keyboard power-on, where you press keys with your computer off and it will turn on.


My Filco does that with my laptop when connected via the USB port on the docking station, it's pretty annoying. Press any key accidentally, and the computer comes back from sleep. I haven't tested if it happens in other scenarios as well.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: Moogle Stiltzkin on Fri, 21 January 2011, 01:26:24
Usb keyboard that works with USB to PS2 adapter to regain NKRO.

Or better yet a usb keyboard that can already do NKRO via usb without the usage of the PS2 port.

Honestly, both are fine, however the first method requires that your pc has a ps2 port, so the 2nd option is much more preferable.


Do you need nkro ? Well not really. But as a gamer i do need at least 7kro for 100% games compatibility. If you buy an expensive keyboard for gaming it should at least do that :P
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 21 January 2011, 05:33:00
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;281349
OCN seems more adamant about using PS/2.


Kids with short attention spans... Read someone saying something and then proceed to repeat that ad infinitum like a headless chicken.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: laserlight on Fri, 21 January 2011, 10:04:26
Quote from: ripster
If you speak Latin a Celeritas goes at the speed of light so it's a constant whether you use USB or PS/2.
The speed of light depends on the medium so USB and PS/2 could result in different constants.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: ajx on Fri, 21 January 2011, 21:29:47
from here, guide promotes usb over ps/2
on the opposite, overclock.net said ps/2 win over usb
so can i conclude both are fine according to use?
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: ajx on Fri, 21 January 2011, 22:28:47
Quote from: ripster;282678
Yep, that's about right.

But I wouldn't buy a PS/2 only keyboard unless you are a retrobate.  Where you plug your current keyboard is a private matter.
i d rather keep using with PS/2 for own preference
i can not explain accurately but it feels more smooth for pressing keys
i suspect usb having faster rate transfer or something
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: NamelessPFG on Fri, 21 January 2011, 23:00:26
Quote from: Moogle Stiltzkin;282148
Do you need nkro ? Well not really. But as a gamer i do need at least 7kro for 100% games compatibility. If you buy an expensive keyboard for gaming it should at least do that :P

To clarify, while most boards are claimed to be 6KRO (one short), you could probably add one or two modifier (Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Win/Cmd/Super/Meta/logo) keys to that. Any more and you'll likely start ghosting under Windows. Just what keys ARE you using in games that need 7 simultaneous keypresses?

I would like full NKRO on my DSI Modular Mac, but I'm not going to go crazy over the 6KRO limit. Besides, I happen to have a couple of full NKRO boards now in the form of BTC-5339s; all they need is an AT-to-PS/2 adapter that works reliably (or hack up and re-cable my existing one). I just don't see myself using them because they feel very linear.
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: mail2345 on Fri, 21 January 2011, 23:17:33
A bit of a side question, does the choice of passive vs active adaptor affect NKRO?
Title: ubs or PS2 for mechanical keyboard?
Post by: woody on Sat, 22 January 2011, 07:26:48
The axe-wielder must be Eunix guy.