geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: cheeseds on Fri, 21 January 2011, 17:04:56
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The propellant used in some brands of silicone spay contain Acetone, (CRC Heavy Duty Silicone spray 30% - 40% by weight) and Methylene chloride (Jig-A-Loo 30-60%). As you may know Acetone is a solvent for polystyrene, polycarbonate, some types of polypropylene, and ABS, so basically all the plastics used to make keycaps switches and cases. Methylene chloride is used for CHEMICALLY WELDING ABS together.
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4174/img20110121152535.jpg)
here we have my well loved and used rubik's brand rubik's cube. I solve this puppy at least 3 times a day, when i first got it like all rubik's cubes it was stiff as a board and impossible to turn with any speed so i went out and got some CRC Heavy Duty Silicone spray. about a week later one of the little cubes popped out and you can imagine my surprise when i saw THIS!
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2459/img20110121152636.jpg)
the acetone in the CRC spray did as advertise and had slightly dissolved my cube, it was also pitted and rough and has micro crack running through it
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7303/img20110121152721.jpg)
I haven't used CRC for lubricating anything plastic ever again and god forbid what would happen if i used Jig-A-Loo.
so in conclusion if you want your keys switches and cases to look like that go right ahead use a silicone spray lubricant, its a highly effective lubricant that has a long lubricating life. Im not sure if there are any silicone sprays out there that dont use those two chemicals as propellants, there must be some.
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Thanks for the heads-up. Looks like it pays off to read the security datasheet, huh?
The one I have here (NIGRIN Hybrid Silikon Gleitspray, made right here in Germany) is stated to contain only propane/butane as a propellant. The advertising also states "smell-free" and "suitable for plastic".
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Thanks for the heads-up. Looks like it pays off to read the security datasheet, huh?
The one I have here (NIGRIN Hybrid Silikon Gleitspray, made right here in Germany) is stated to contain only propane/butane as a propellant. The advertising also states "smell-free" and "suitable for plastic".
Would you recommend this for lubing the switches?
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Would you recommend this for lubing the switches?
The Cherry MYs I treated with it several months ago look just fine (I just opened the board to make sure, which also worked fine recently), so I guess I would. I guess there'll be other sprays which are equally good, just make sure the stuff is OK for plastics.
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here we have my well loved and used rubik's brand rubik's cube. I solve this puppy at least 3 times a day, when i first got it like all rubik's cubes it was stiff as a board and impossible to turn with any speed so i went out and got some CRC Heavy Duty Silicone spray. about a week later one of the little cubes popped out and you can imagine my surprise when i saw THIS!
i always used vaseline on my cubes (not that i would recommend that for keyboards)... maybe i should look inside one and see what the damage is.
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Silicon spray is generally a bad thing to use for lubricating plastics, for the above mentioned reasons. Not all plastics are affected by acetone, but don't tempt fate unless you know the type of plastic you're going to be using it with.
I would stick with light silicone greases, Teflon pastes, lithium grease. Those are compatible with almost all plastics and synthetic rubbers. Petroleum jelly is okay... though it can cause trouble with some natural rubbers (and polycarbonate too, I think?). But if you're serious about lube, use serious lube.
And don't use WD-40 on plastics. It wasn't developed for that application, and can interact chemically with some plastics.
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silicone paste will work just fine i think there are a couple lubricant threads deep in the bowls of this forum
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Keys#Squeaky+Key+Time+to+Lube+UP (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Keys#Squeaky+Key+Time+to+Lube+UP)
I always used vaseline on my cubes (not that i would recommend that for keyboards)... maybe i should look inside one and see what the damage is.
im not sure about Vaseline but i know they use silicone paste for the cubes used in competitions and such
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good info, but i have never had to lubricate my keys yet :P
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I posted similar findings in another thread about lubricating ALPS switches. I used CRC Silicone, and it ate up a plastic cup I sprayed it into for brush application. The acetone is vicious.
(For clarity's sake, the thread was about lubing ALPS, I did NOT, however, use the CRC on my ALPS because of it's plastic-eating properties, instead I used it on a Cherry ML)
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Hell, I'm a keyboard lover and even I wouldn't do that!
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Well, lubing my black switches and adding stickers to it and swapping the springs with geekhack springs sounds to me as a good mod.
I would certainly feel myself korean.
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Isn't lithium grease just too thick to be using on sliders?
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RO-59 is ptfe based lubricant, but unfortunately it is really hard to get one.
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I bought some NIGRIN Standard silicone spray for the squeaking stabilizers on my old G80-3000. I'm thinking about lubing the switches too, or would that be crazy?
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sane people never make history.
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sane people never make history.
i agree, go nuts and be remembered forever!
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Just go for it then report back with your experiences. Accorrding to the Koreans and the Japanese RO-59 would be a better option here. They also apply stickers to prevent the switches from gathering dust.
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Silicone spray is not conductive, so you don't want to get any on the contact areas (thus I wouldn't apply it in bulk). MX switches already come with lubrication in critical spots from the factory, too.
If you do want to apply the stuff, I'd do so carefully using Q-Tips or things even finer after popping the switch open.
Silicone spray makes a lot more sense on MY mechanisms, I'd say.
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The keyboard sat in storage unused for 13 years, would that affect the factory lubricant? The keys are all going fine, it's just the stabilizers that squeak. My plan was to pop the switches and apply the stuff very thinly onto the metal leaves and the springs, not because they need it, but just cuz. It might be nice to get them even smoother than they are.
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The keyboard sat in storage unused for 13 years, would that affect the factory lubricant? The keys are all going fine, it's just the stabilizers that squeak. My plan was to pop the switches and apply the stuff very thinly onto the metal leaves and the springs, not because they need it, but just cuz. It might be nice to get them even smoother than they are.
I couldn't find any lithium grease, but teflon grease is also available. So that would be better?
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The keyboard sat in storage unused for 13 years, would that affect the factory lubricant? The keys are all going fine, it's just the stabilizers that squeak.
Have you looked at the metal pieces? I have seen these in all conditions from shiny to oxidized and all black.
I couldn't find any lithium grease, but teflon grease is also available. So that would be better?
Some of the best lubricants you can get. Nice for CD player pickup rails and such.
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I suggest not messing with silicone spray on switches. Had pretty bad success here. There is a type of oil that some of the Asian modders use. Not RO59, but some other stuff in a spray can. I'll look it up again later if anyone is interested.
In general I can tell you that the task of greasing switches, one by one is a terribly boring task. Much, much work.
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Yeah I'm sticking with the silicone for just the stabilizers and the PTFE for anything else.
The plan for the switches was to pull the V-shaped springs out, line them up on a sheet of paper with the friction surface up and then spraying them all at once. Same with the spiral springs. Maybe swab the electric contact at the bottom of each switch with a q-tip dipped in alcohol.
Although it's gonna take a while to disassemble and later assemble all the switches.
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I suggest not messing with silicone spray on switches. Had pretty bad success here. There is a type of oil that some of the Asian modders use. Not RO59, but some other stuff in a spray can. I'll look it up again later if anyone is interested.
In general I can tell you that the task of greasing switches, one by one is a terribly boring task. Much, much work.
Thank you in advance for your timely response in this matter.
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why not use silicone grease? better than lithium grease and should be harmless. of course it is not as easy to apply as a spray can but it does not go all over the place either.
it's lubricant properties are very good. it is safe on the most delicate plastic. i use it to lube fountain pen internals. you can get it at home depot in plumbing.
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without reading thread.
lubing your keyboard? wat kind of kinky stuff are you planning to do with it? do you like the high pitch scream/squeak of a model f spacebar or do you like it rough like a model or you want it nice and soft with a cherry my.
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lubing your keyboard? wat kind of kinky stuff are you planning to do with it? do you like the high pitch scream/squeak of a model f spacebar or do you like it rough like a model or you want it nice and soft with a cherry my.
This is why some GeekHackers worry me. Hell, I'm a keyboard lover and even I'M not THAT kinky!
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First guy to post a real x-ray of a keyboard up his butt will receive a free Filco Majestouch with MX Blues.
Edit: HHKB entries not accepted. Full 101~105 keys only!
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You can't imagine how squeaky my spacebar was. I did not spray directly onto the keyboard, but into a cup. Then drenched a q-tip and applied it underneath the cross plugs and onto the hinges of all the stabilizers. They're fine now.
Opening a switch was harder than I remember. Don't have the right tools for it. So I chickened out and didn't do it. Would've liked to see how much smoother I could make them with a little Teflon. Probably would've reduced the pressure required by a few g.
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First guy to post a real x-ray of a keyboard up his butt will receive a free Filco Majestouch with MX Blues.
Edit: HHKB entries not accepted. Full 101~105 keys only!
THIS.
I only have a HHKB.
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You can't imagine how squeaky my spacebar was. I did not spray directly onto the keyboard, but into a cup. Then drenched a q-tip and applied it underneath the cross plugs and onto the hinges of all the stabilizers. They're fine now.
Good to hear.
Opening a switch was harder than I remember. Don't have the right tools for it. So I chickened out and didn't do it.
You did see the recent discussion on opening techniques, right? I got along pretty well with one single 2.0 mm precision screwdriver in the end. But whatever you do, leave the metal parts inside alone, espcially when blessed with the miserable eyesight of yours truly.
First guy to post a real x-ray of a keyboard up his butt will receive a free Filco Majestouch with MX Blues.
Edit: HHKB entries not accepted. Full 101~105 keys only!
That's not gonna happen. (Besides, wouldn't an exclamation of "You can shove your mechanical keyboards up your @ss!" belong to an ignorant subject anyway?) The one case I read about involving a bottle (and, unsurprisingly, the prior consumption of alcohol) apparently was bad enough.
Personally, keyboards never occurred to me as being all that sexy. Maybe that's because all I have is the equivalent of elderly ladies. ;)
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Personally, keyboards never occurred to me as being all that sexy. Maybe that's because all I have is the equivalent of elderly ladies. ;)
Elderly ladies can still look good in a nice bikini (don't dare to quote me on that, ever):
(http://i.imgur.com/oFjDT.jpg)
(http://c1582472.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/images.store.products.views.main.1084.jpg?lm=105742925)
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I suggest not messing with silicone spray on switches. Had pretty bad success here. There is a type of oil that some of the Asian modders use. Not RO59, but some other stuff in a spray can. I'll look it up again later if anyone is interested.
Can you still find what that oil was?
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Is lithium grease in a spray can viable? Couldn't find any lube where I live...
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Holy. Necro bump
Personally I wouldn't use it.
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Holy. Necro bump
Personally I wouldn't use it.
Haha, indeed :p
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Is lithium grease in a spray can viable? Couldn't find any lube where I live...
Spray wouldn't necessarily go where you wanted it to.
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Is lithium grease in a spray can viable? Couldn't find any lube where I live...
Spray wouldn't necessarily go where you wanted it to.
Figured, but if I spray it onto something first, and then put it on my stabs? Also, I'm not even sure if I need to lube. I had that squeaky sound once, but I just had to take my backspace back and on and it was fixed. The problem I'm having right now is that, when I tap my keys gently, I can hear a little metallic sound coming from the stabilizers... Not sure if lubing would even help?
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Here's a more suitable place for this discussion:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34332.0
(it's a sticky too).