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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: advancedgamer on Fri, 28 January 2011, 11:34:59
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hey people, i started this thread to not derail the other big thread.
i'm new here and bought the razer black widow, having mixed feeligns about it. i'm a huge gamer, be it semi-competetitive or just all different kinds of games, so that is the most important thing for me, typing comes next.
about 70/30 ratio.
on the one hand the blackwidow has awesome looks, i love the small key letters and the design, on the other hand it is too loud for my liking, double tapping is not so easy possible since the keys need to get up again before you press them nicely again. typing is good too.
i heard from various sources that red switches are the best for gaming, but hardly produced anymore. next would come browns, they are not as noisy as the blues, so i dunno why razer went for blue switches. there also seem to be clear switches? how are those for gaming? what's DoubleShot?
anyawy i came across these keyboards:
- Cherry G80-3600LYC, it even has red switches!!!
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8597
- Deck Keyboard The Legend? cherry white keys??
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/
- German Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover
http://keyboardco.com/
which one is this btw?
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_big.asp?PRODUCT=767
- Topre Realforce?
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=791
- the well known cherry g80-3000, with soft tactile, click and linear?
again what i should i look out for?
http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/office_business_G80-3000.htm
- zowie celeritas, dunno which switches they use
- http://cgi.ebay.at/Cherry-G80-3494-Keyboard-Black-G80-3494-Linear-White-/270602674492?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs
and this one i found on german board, they said the offers legit, somebody oredered it and it worked prefectly fine!!! RED SWITCHES :D
i'm from germany, so german layout would be good, not 100% necessary
so which of those could you recomment to me? keeping in mind i'm a huge gamer, fps and rts are important :)
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Look for steelseries keyboards(6gv2/7g). They have linear black switches and widely avalable in germany for a mainstream price.
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I just bought the Topre you've listed and while it's a great keyboard for typing, I would prefer my DAS for gaming.
It is available at a German webstore (http://www.getdigital.de/products/Das_Keyboard_Model_S) and offers full NKRO. You might not like the switches though, it comes with either Blue or Brown Cherries.
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Lol...Germans are so literal.
"Das Auto". "Das Keyboard".
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"Das Keyboard".
"Die Tastatur" actually.
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I just bought the Topre you've listed and while it's a great keyboard for typing, I would prefer my DAS for gaming.
It is available at a German webstore (http://www.getdigital.de/products/Das_Keyboard_Model_S) and offers full NKRO. You might not like the switches though, it comes with either Blue or Brown Cherries.
nice! can you explain further why the topre is not that great for gaming?
and i see you're from germany too, ^^
and what about the filco majestouch?
i dunno why but i think i have a thing for it, plus it has PS/2 and USB.
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Basically most of the listed keyboards has nkro and PS2/USB. Of course Cherry g80-3000 is an exception and I am not sure about the Deck.
Pro gamers prefer linear mx black/red anyway, especially those fps guys.
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nice! can you explain further why the topre is not that great for gaming?
Well, for one there are the weighted keys. They are great when touch typing, but when you're playing a FPS, you press the 'a' key with your ring finger instead of the pinky which makes the weaker key quite irritating imho.
and what about the filco majestouch?
i dunno why but i think i have a thing for it, plus it has PS/2 and USB.
I don't have a Filco, but it certainly is a good keyboard as well. The DAS also has both PS2 and USB.
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Well, for one there are the weighted keys. They are great when touch typing, but when you're playing a FPS, you press the 'a' key with your ring finger instead of the pinky which makes the weaker key quite irritating imho.
Uniform weighting FTW! :P
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Uniform weighting FTW! :P
I actually love the weighted keys for typing and since that's what I'm mainly doing nowadays...
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I actually like the weighted keys for gaming. The variable weight doesn't really bother me in FPS.
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For casual gaming it may be ok, but for pro level gaming I doubt.
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I actually like the weighted keys for gaming. The variable weight doesn't really bother me in FPS.
I do all my gaming on my Model M and I am not bothered by the tactility of the keys.
In the games I play, I have never done any key double tapping so I ahve never found that to be a problem.
In another thread someone suggested that getting the springs from Cherry MX Blacks and replacing the springs in the blues with them would make them feel more like reds, if that is what your going for...
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I do all my gaming on my Model M and I am not bothered by the tactility of the keys.
In the games I play, I have never done any key double tapping so I ahve never found that to be a problem.
In another thread someone suggested that getting the springs from Cherry MX Blacks and replacing the springs in the blues with them would make them feel more like reds, if that is what your going for...
you are thinking of the springs from browns and putting them into a black switch. :)
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you are thinking of the springs from browns and putting them into a black switch. :)
Sticker modded and RO-59 lubed mx black and mx clear switches added with sixty's smooth spring is them are my dream gaming switches for FPS and RTS.
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I do all my gaming on my Model M and I am not bothered by the tactility of the keys.
In the games I play, I have never done any key double tapping so I ahve never found that to be a problem.
In another thread someone suggested that getting the springs from Cherry MX Blacks and replacing the springs in the blues with them would make them feel more like reds, if that is what your going for...
never meeting problem doesnt mean improving performances in game
as he perfectly said, if you are not an huge and skilled player, it will not bother you
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hell no i m not talking about myself ,p
being skilled doesnt mean being skilled for cs, cod, wow, sc2
those games which you might win and start to gain prices
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Pro-gayming.
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Has anyone here tried both red and black switches for gaming? If so, which do you prefer? I'm talking strictly for gaming, nothing to do with regular typing.
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This guy (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=16576) tried both for gaming.
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Thanks for the link. Looks like he slightly prefers the blacks for just pure gaming although he says the reds feel better typing. I think the blacks might suit me better because I game a lot at night when everyone else is sleeping so that's when I'll bust out my alt linear keyboard and it seems like people are saying the light touch of the reds makes it easier to bottom out which will cause more noise than the heavier blacks. Reds might be a good choice for someone who just wants to get one keyboard for both typing and gaming.
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I definitely like the blacks for typing as well.
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I definitely like the blacks for typing as well.
It took me a while to get used to them for typing. Painful experience, literally. At the end it was ok.
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My Steelseries given me pleasure since the day I bought it.
I can't say the same about my Realforce.
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Besides the Filco tenkeyless mx blacks, is there any other mx black keyboard that's tenkeyless? I really like the smaller form factor.
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Well, there is the Leopold and the Ducky. Other than that, i'm not aware of any non-2KRO tenkeyless MX Boards.
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If you want a Realforce for gaming, you need the 55g version but it cost more than keyboards with cherry switchs.
The variable is alright for casual gaming or RPG type of game but for a skilled FPS player you must avoid it.
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I have a 55g...haven't gamed on it yet. Will hopefully be trying it out at home tonight. I'm honestly a bit skeptical, though.
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Pro level gaming...wow :P How many people out there do you actually think can make enough money from gaming competitions alone to live :P It's only at that level that you should call yourself professional.
I would say anyone who plays for pay is a pro (per. the Princeton dictionary). It gets weird when you are trying to calculate a "living wage". Where does one draw the line. Food stamps and a few bucks or someone bringing in 300k.
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I would say anyone who plays for pay is a pro (per. the Princeton dictionary). It gets weird when you are trying to calculate a "living wage". Where does one draw the line. Food stamps and a few bucks or someone bringing in 300k.
I have always used this definition. In college I averaged around $300/month playing in Warcraft 3 tournaments. I consider myself to have been a semi-pro gamer at that point as I was making more money playing WC3 than working in the philosophy department photocopying books.
I was also winning some of the biggest North American tournaments at the time. It wasn't on the scale of CS or SC1 where you could actually make a living wage at the time but I was at the forefront of that particular game and making ok money playing it.
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Warcraft 3 is awesome man! I played it since the BETA came out.
That is the most micro intensive game ever.
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Yeah man, it's pretty much my fave though I'm learning to really love SC2's more macro intensive style.
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Just got to PIMP
Pylons -- Don't get supply blocked
Income - Spend your money
Minimap -- Watch out!
Production. - Tap your hotkeys - Probes, Upgrades, Structures
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=203113
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Yeah man, it's pretty much my fave though I'm learning to really love SC2's more macro intensive style.
So your avatar is after archmage, not ezalor.
I feel betrayed...
I made around $80 being a mercenary at my peak in COD2 and COD4, then I found RTS/Dota and I can't go back to FPS
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Any money I've made in TF2 has been spent on hats. DAMN YOU VALVE!
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I think both microing War3, and marcoing SC2 require a high level of the ability to swith-tasking your attention very rapidly.
I think this flash game (http://www.kongregate.com/games/IcyLime/multitask) is very similar in that aspect, also very challenging.
Try to beat my record!
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16686&stc=1&d=1302113217)
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So your avatar is after archmage, not ezalor.
I feel betrayed...
I made around $80 being a mercenary at my peak in COD2 and COD4, then I found RTS/Dota and I can't go back to FPS
Haha. Yeah, if my avatar were a DOTA hero it would be Clinkz. :) Back when he was awesome in 5.84c he was my boy.
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Haha. Yeah, if my avatar were a DOTA hero it would be Clinkz. :) Back when he was awesome in 5.84c he was my boy.
Cheap bastard, burn in hell!
I don't like clinkz :( But whatever, it's all about HoN now.
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Just got to PIMP
Pylons -- Don't get supply blocked
Income - Spend your money
Minimap -- Watch out!
Production. - Tap your hotkeys - Probes, Upgrades, Structures
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=203113
But I play terran =/
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Cheap bastard, burn in hell!
I don't like clinkz :( But whatever, it's all about HoN now.
Agreed, HoN is my jam. Hellbringer or Magmus all day. :)
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But I play terran =/
Let me fix that then.
Supply Depots
Tanks
Imba
Marauders
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Zerglings
Early
Really
Gosu
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I kill two of my drones so I can 4 pool like it's BW. Every. Game.
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Pro! Did you see the GSL April Fool's match? It was amazing!
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Yeah, I was a bit surprised. Didn't expect an April fools joke from GOM.
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Pro! Did you see the GSL April Fool's match? It was amazing!
Loved that, although I was disappointed when they went back to SC2. I was hoping they'd do some BW matches.
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honestly, i think for gaming your bw is really good, I just went from a filco brown mx nkro to a bwu dragon age 2 edition, don't regret it.
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Well, there is the Leopold and the Ducky. Other than that, i'm not aware of any non-2KRO tenkeyless MX Boards.
Noppoo has a version with blacks and nkro with usb.
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honestly, i think for gaming your bw is really good, I just went from a filco brown mx nkro to a bwu dragon age 2 edition, don't regret it.
what do you mean by BW? I am too lazy to reread the whole thread to find out, sorry. :P
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what do you mean by BW? I am too lazy to reread the whole thread to find out, sorry. :P
Razer BlackWidow I assume.
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Razer BlackWidow I assume.
thanks, I should have known that. :P Been busy today and I am a bit on autopilot.
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honestly, i think for gaming your bw is really good, i just went from a filco brown mx nkro to a bwu dragon age 2 edition, don't regret it.
ಠ_ಠ
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Trolls be trolling. BW mean Starcraft: Brood War. (or black widow)
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Trolls be trolling. BW mean Starcraft: Brood War. (or black widow)
i was thinking Brood War, but that did not make sense to me for this thread or his post lol :P
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Wait, what April Fools Match? Is there a VOD? HOW THE **** DID I MISS IT RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*ALMOST SMASHES NEW BLACKWIDOW AND REALIZES ITS NOT HIS CRAPPY OLD MICROSOFT KEYBOARD ANY MORE AND YELLS AT IT FOR BEING EXPENSIVE*
Whoa, that was a long *action*.
Glad I got that out of my system.
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Oh I found it.
Google is cool.
http://www.gomtv.net/2011championship/vod/64135
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wow gj people, while i was absent of these forums for some months you turned this into a gaming thread =P
makes me proud
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Topre is fine for gaming. But not the best. It's just... yea, it's good but not the BEST :)
I had HHKB and for gaming wise, it works but other switches provide better for gaming.
I am a huge gamer too btw :)
From most ppl this is how it goes:
Blue - good for RTS. Many progamers use. But ppl recommend other options other than blue.
for me, I think blue's great for typing and gaming! I had great experience with blue while playing CS.
Brown - MOST ppl recommend this for gaming and typing. Majority of the SC2 progamers use this switch.
For me, it's great. But it somehow leaves u wanting more.
Red - Newest switch. Great for gaming and typing. Since it's new, many progamers are yet to try them. But I saw some SC2 progamers use Red.
For me, Red is far the best gaming keyboard. BUT not for typing... :( It's okay for typing..
Black - People say it's best for FPS. Just best.. NOT recommended for typing by majority. ur fingers have to fitness to type long with this
For me, it is great for FPS. It just gives u different experience. But you are not going to only FPS with this so...
I recommend brown or red. Black is very nice but too heavy for me at least :( It is great for FPS though.
Personally I don't see what's wrong with blue for gaming. It is great for both typing and gaming. Blue is definitley most fun.
EDIT: Woo forgot to recommend model
Go with Filco. One of the best since the stone age of cherry switch boom.
Das is also great. Personally, Das feel better in typing than Filco but the build quality wasn't satisfactory for me :(
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1. What models of Filco exacly do you have in mind brkim1324 ? atm i m favoring brown , i play only Sc2 competitivly (and the rts janra) . In my mind the best keyboard for sc2/rts are the ones best for typing but at the same time i dont like the ideea of noisy keyboards as i dont use headsets . I only used the black swiches and they are good for sc2 but i find them horrible for any game where you need to keep a key down alote , like running in a fps or mmo as then it realy tiers you down. My biggest concern with brown (considering i havent tryed them) it that they are too soft and you can press keys involuntaty.
2. Where i can buy Filco in europe ? if you know give more options as most dont send in my country
3.Does anyone know where you can get Das professional silent with delivery in europe? http://www.getdigital.de doesnt have this model unfortunatly
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get blues, browns blow
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Topre is fine for gaming. But not the best. It's just... yea, it's good but not the BEST :)
I had HHKB and for gaming wise, it works but other switches provide better for gaming.
I am a huge gamer too btw :)
From most ppl this is how it goes:
Blue - good for RTS. Many progamers use. But ppl recommend other options other than blue.
for me, I think blue's great for typing and gaming! I had great experience with blue while playing CS.
Brown - MOST ppl recommend this for gaming and typing. Majority of the SC2 progamers use this switch.
For me, it's great. But it somehow leaves u wanting more.
Red - Newest switch. Great for gaming and typing. Since it's new, many progamers are yet to try them. But I saw some SC2 progamers use Red.
For me, Red is far the best gaming keyboard. BUT not for typing... :( It's okay for typing..
Black - People say it's best for FPS. Just best.. NOT recommended for typing by majority. ur fingers have to fitness to type long with this
For me, it is great for FPS. It just gives u different experience. But you are not going to only FPS with this so...
I recommend brown or red. Black is very nice but too heavy for me at least :( It is great for FPS though.
Personally I don't see what's wrong with blue for gaming. It is great for both typing and gaming. Blue is definitley most fun.
EDIT: Woo forgot to recommend model
Go with Filco. One of the best since the stone age of cherry switch boom.
Das is also great. Personally, Das feel better in typing than Filco but the build quality wasn't satisfactory for me :(
Cherry Blue drove me nuts when i play Action and any other fast pace game which doubletab the same keys repeatedly at high speed(including Dota, to hold position).
Strangely, blue is okay and acceptable for FPS as i dont bottom up it(WASD) when walking in game.
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I only used the black swiches and they are good for sc2 but i find them horrible for any game where you need to keep a key down alote , like running in a fps or mmo as then it realy tiers you down.
Where i can buy Filco in europe ? if you know give more options as most dont send in my country
You don't need to keep holding the key down. I don't bottom out the black switches while gaming. It takes some practice, but totally worth the effort/time.
You can get the Filco from http://keyboardco.com/ (http://keyboardco.com/).
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1. What models of Filco exacly do you have in mind brkim1324 ? atm i m favoring brown , i play only Sc2 competitivly (and the rts janra) . In my mind the best keyboard for sc2/rts are the ones best for typing but at the same time i dont like the ideea of noisy keyboards as i dont use headsets . I only used the black swiches and they are good for sc2 but i find them horrible for any game where you need to keep a key down alote , like running in a fps or mmo as then it realy tiers you down. My biggest concern with brown (considering i havent tryed them) it that they are too soft and you can press keys involuntaty.
I don't think brown is that light. Red is too light. But I believe the reason ppl most mistype is not because the keyboard is in bad design or too light but more like they just mistype.. fingers going everywhere.
Currently I use brown for typing and it is great. Blues the still most fun though so thinking about majes 2 blue replacing my old blue.
I play lots of SC2 and my friends do too. I am masters and my freind's GM. He plays with blue and has no problem at all. In fact he plays better than with rubber dome, faster and more responsive.
I play with Red for SC2. It just feels smooth and right. Brown is great too but I am juts more used to Red's smoothness and easy to tap. Red is lighter for your fingers meaning your fingers will less fatigue.
My fingers used to fatigue quite fast with blues. With Reds, much longer.
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Strangely, blue is okay and acceptable for FPS as i dont bottom up it(WASD) when walking in game
Yeah I am a light typist too but as I got used to Red, I tend to bottom out more. At first with Red, the keys are very light so I do like cloud typing. Then I started to feel I cannot really feel whether I typed it or not. So my fingers bottom out more. I used not bottom out with blues but now I bottom out more :( well that's okay as long as my fingers are strong!
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Damn, that's so impressive!
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I don't think brown is that light. Red is too light. But I believe the reason ppl most mistype is not because the keyboard is in bad design or too light but more like they just mistype.. fingers going everywhere.
Currently I use brown for typing and it is great. Blues the still most fun though so thinking about majes 2 blue replacing my old blue.
I play lots of SC2 and my friends do too. I am masters and my freind's GM. He plays with blue and has no problem at all. In fact he plays better than with rubber dome, faster and more responsive.
I play with Red for SC2. It just feels smooth and right. Brown is great too but I am juts more used to Red's smoothness and easy to tap. Red is lighter for your fingers meaning your fingers will less fatigue.
My fingers used to fatigue quite fast with blues. With Reds, much longer.
brkim1324 got one more question , when you play sc you usualy fully press the keys or just enough to register, aka when you wana make probes etc ?
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brkim1324 got one more question , when you play sc you usualy fully press the keys or just enough to register, aka when you wana make probes etc ?
I used to fully press keys, but with Reds, I don't really fully press keys. Just enough to give command. In the beginning of the game, I just warm up my fingers and make probes. But as the game goes on more intense and I got more things to do, so your fingers gotta work faster. Just has to go everywhere. So I did notice myself not bottoming out to reduce time for next command. Sometimes I mistype so the command doesn't go in, but I believe that's just I need more practice :) For now, I play with both brown and Red, and they are different experience. Brown feels more stiff and firm than Red. Red is light and cloudy meaning your fingers like to fly over the keyboard often. Overall, I like them both :) I am thinking about ordering new Blue on Monday and getting it on Tuesday.. Blues will be just for typing thou and even for gaming. But it's just mostly I wanna have it... :P which is crazy and greedy... XD
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In the beginning of the game, I just warm up my fingers and make probes.
Gross,, Terran all the way.... My poor bunkers in next patch...
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i spin around Das professional silent (brown) and Filco Majestouch-2 (red) , cant decide yet . The thing is i can never not fully press keys when i play ,i do this on black swich keyboard and i m a prity big guy(i only get fatigued on black if i need to keep a button down , like runing in a RPG). Here ar some of my thoughts
I heared the Filco has prity poor key paint and the keys start to fade soon and considering the cost of the Filco i m not too happy about that.One thing that is very important to me if how high i can get the keyboard(using the feet support if any of them have one), does anyone know anything about that?
Also there is the fact that the das kayboard gets in my country at half the price of a filco
ofc Zamorph i m terran too , protoss is just too booring and easy to play for my taste :) but yeah SCV= probes/drones to me , also want to ask if you feel that someone that pushes keys at max can have problems with Filco Majestouch 2 as it s very easy to involuntery press keys or it s just all in my mind?
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why is the filco majestouch-2 not available in brown??
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why is the filco majestouch-2 not available in brown??
You mean this one? (http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Tactile-Keyboard-FKBN104M/dp/B004VKUSG6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1307053697&sr=8-3)
or perhaps this one? (http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Tenkeyless-Tactile-Keyboard/dp/B004WOF7QM/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1307053697&sr=8-6)
Unless you're talking about the bezel finish. And if so.... ewww.