geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Phaedrus2129 on Sat, 05 February 2011, 01:13:25
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So my major requires we take a computer literacy class. As we all know, I'm a computer geek who's built many computers, knows rudimentary programming, and got a commendation in high school for getting a 100/100 in my comp sci course, even though I technically broke the rules by using remote execution to screw with a couple other students who pissed me off. But that is neither here nor there.
So this computer literacy thing is sort of a joke. But I figured it'd be an easy class, free A to boost my GPA.
But hooooo, boy, I opened a big can of worms here.
The teacher they've got in charge of this class has no. ****ing. idea. what she's doing. She's no IT professional, no programmer, no geek, nada, not any connection to computers, so technologically backward I doubt she knows a router from a PC.
She pronounces DOS like "dose". She can't tell the virus on half the lab computers that's pretending to be an AV from the actual McAfee AV installed on the systems. Doesn't know if the lab PCs are thin clients or thick. Thinks that the HEATSINK is the CPU. Can't help the students who don't know how to log in to Blackboard.
She reads from a book that is obviously over a decade old, featuring a picture of a computer with ISA slots. I S ****ING A. I've never seen a computer with ISA still in operation, they phased them out with Pentium 3. There are several pages that were removed, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were about Y2k.
She reads rapid-fire mispronouncing almost every word, and obviously barely comprehends a tenth of what she's saying. The quizzes she gives are full of opinion questions or questions with no correct answer, and even the answers she gives in the notes don't always match the correct answer on the quiz.
I'm sure she's a nice lady, but she has about as much right to be teaching a computer literacy class as I have to be a football coach. I'm complaining to her department head along with a couple of other students later this week, and if necessary going up to the dean or the provost. It's simply unacceptable; she's doing more harm than good for the students who actually need to learn this stuff.
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makes you want to judge the competency of the next person up the ladder over in the HR recruitment dept.
o.O;
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Take it easy buddy, there are two sides to every story, she probably had to screw a dozen guys just to get this job, just get your A and be done with it :)
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lolololol
tell em why you mad son.
my favorite part is "using remote execution to screw with a couple other students who pissed me off"
i remember doing that hahaha
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lolololol
tell em why you mad son.
my favorite part is "using remote execution to screw with a couple other students who pissed me off"
i remember doing that hahaha
Hehe, I wrote a C++ script to make the monitor go into sleep mode and come out again really fast, so it looked like it was flickering. When the teacher sent for the sysadmin to take a look I made it stop.
Ah, my brief script kiddie days. Good times. :p
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They used to have the computers at my HS pretty locked down, but when one of us in my HS computer class found a way to get to the command line, it was smooth sailing from there.
It's funny cause all the computers were numbered, so once you figured out your computer name, you could just replace the number. net send was the greatest command ever.
We used to send messages to kids like "Click OK to format your hard drive!". If you've never seen a net send message, it pops up with a box with the message (saying who sent it as well, but since the computer names were pretty cryptic, it looked malicious) and the only thing you can do is click "OK". Trying to get rid of the window in any other way just makes it flash a bit.
Then after that message, sending another one that said something to the effect of "Are you SURE?"
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To the OP-
I am no IT person but I have had my fair share of very, very similar situations in different disciplines. Bummer you are in that situation now, oh the pain. XD
However this perhaps is a much better topic for the "off topic" section doncha think? =P
We have not even mentioned the word "keyboard" yet in this thread, haahaa.
=)
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Or the course could be designed to teach you patience. Or some other such thing.
Personally, I agree with you. But sometimes, you just have to grin and bear it, as they say.
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I know exactly how you feel man. My old computer teacher had no idea what she was talking about. I would correct her all the time and she would argue with me like I was wrong, like she is all high and mighty just because she is older than me. My parents did the same thing. Telling me that I'm putting a bunch of viruses on their computer. and people are going to steal my identity if I buy things online. URRGGG!! Petpieve right there! When old people think they know about computers, when in fact all they know is how to open solitaire and microsoft internet explorer.
I actually replaced the google chrome icon with the internet explorer icon so my parents would stop opening up IE and making it the default browser.
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When old people think they know about computers, when in fact all they know is how to open solitaire and microsoft internet explorer.
My computer science teacher was 65+ but he knew Assembly like no other...
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Yeah, age has nothing to do with ability in this regard. My advisor is in his 60s, and is still one of the leading experts in his field (scientific computing).
Cleve Moler is pretty old too, yet this is the guy who wrote the original version of Matlab, and helped author LINPACK. You know, that benchmark for the most powerful computers in the world?
I mean, yes, most of the older generation has a difficult time with modern technology, but not because they are stupid, and not because they are old. It's simply they had other interests when they were young, and psychologists have shown that learning new technology is very similar, in terms of brain structures, to learning a new foreign language.
Which, as you get older, gets harder and harder to do. Not because you're less intelligent, but simply because of how our brain works. Language pathways eventually solidify, and there is very little we can do about it.
Besides, there are just as many young people who know squat about computers. It wasn't that long ago that I taught a student who had NEVER TOUCHED A COMPUTER before. And I mean only about 5 years ago. 2006, and never touched a computer.
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My parents did the same thing. Telling me that I'm putting a bunch of viruses on their computer. and people are going to steal my identity if I buy things online.
Then, years later, it's you who has to keep them out of trouble on the interwebs...
I actually replaced the google chrome icon with the internet explorer icon so my parents would stop opening up IE and making it the default browser.
Old trick. IE skins for Firefox enjoy some popularity for much the same reason.
Of course age doesn't have much to do with computer literacy per se, even though statistically us younger folks are likely to fare better for obvious reasons (though the trend probably has already reversed).
Having a computer literacy course fronted by someone who obviously doesn't have that much of a clue of the subject would seem like putting the cart before the horse. The young'uns being ahead in terms of the latest and greatest developments is kinda normal, but as a teacher one needs to have a good basic understanding of things and some hands-on experience at least.
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They let me test out of mine. Can't you do that? It's a waste of time and probably money for you.
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I mean, yes, most of the older generation has a difficult time with modern technology, but not because they are stupid, and not because they are old. It's simply they had other interests when they were young, and psychologists have shown that learning new technology is very similar, in terms of brain structures, to learning a new foreign language.
Which, as you get older, gets harder and harder to do. Not because you're less intelligent, but simply because of how our brain works. Language pathways eventually solidify, and there is very little we can do about it.
Essentially there are two kinds of people:
1. Those who are open to learning new things throughout all their life.
2. Those who don't bother any more at some point.
Yes, learning does get slower with age, but training has a huge impact, easily dominating other factors. How old was the oldest lady to ever obtain a university degree, like 80+?
Besides, there are just as many young people who know squat about computers. It wasn't that long ago that I taught a student who had NEVER TOUCHED A COMPUTER before. And I mean only about 5 years ago. 2006, and never touched a computer.
You can fully expect the percentage of computer geeks to decrease further. I think this peaked at the times when computers were hot and exciting stuff. Nowadays a computer is, well, a tool. Music has gotten more popular in return.
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and who has the degree?
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and who has the degree?
Are you sure the woman teaching the course has one in an even tangientially related field?
Also, a degree is a piece of paper. I've known some frighteningly computer illiterate COMPUTER SCIENCE professors in my life. They are theory people, but still.
I have lots of degrees. But that doesn't mean I'm qualified to teach a class in Chinese literacy, even if I do have basic skills in the area.
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Take it easy buddy, there are two sides to every story, she probably had to screw a dozen guys just to get this job, just get your A and be done with it :)
Just to be clear: this is incredibly offensive. This chauvinistic attitude is one of the primary reason so few women go into technical and scientific fields, and it needs to stop.
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This is an unfortunate reality in life...at my college, fortunately, our professors have years of field experience with whatever the course they teach is. It's sort of a requirement for them.
The problem with college professors is that they are primarily research personnel who are required to teach a certain quota of hours as part of their tenure. This leads to the following problems -
1) They may be very knowledgeable, but not necessarily have the skills required to actually teach people properly. This is problematic given that there is often an inverse correlation between how much you know and your ability to communicate what you know.
2) Their area of expertise may be something that is above and beyond the scope of an undergraduate or even masters course, so they get lumped in teaching something that is vaguely related to what they do, but not necessarily something they are completely comfortable or up to date with.
3) You get senile *******s who hold professorships and can't be gotten rid of. No matter how many complaints are made, no matter how many people fail their course despite acing everything else, the college sits back and inflicts them on year after year of hapless students because it's not worth their time to do anything else.
I have experienced all three (particularly the first), in many cases, combinations of two, in at least one case, a combination of all three.
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Just to be clear: this is incredibly offensive. This chauvinistic attitude is one of the primary reason so few women go into technical and scientific fields, and it needs to stop.
Hippy.
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The problem with college professors is that they are primarily research personnel who are required to teach a certain quota of hours as part of their tenure.
This is true. But at least it still buys you a certain minimum degree of competence - so it's a step up from the situation described by the OP.
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psychologists have shown that learning new technology is very similar, in terms of brain structures, to learning a new foreign language.
In a non hostile tone: source please?
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George Gedds addresses it in this paper (http://www.ics.heacademy.ac.uk/italics/vol5iss4/geddes.pdf) (PDF), including giving references to other studies that discuss it. It was also addressed quite extensively in an ergonomics course I took, that was a joint program between CS, cognitive science, and the school of education. They had a lot of F-MRI studies showing the same areas of the brain light up when given a new technology based task and when a new language is introduced to the subject.
One of the interesting aspects of the paper linked above is that self-doubt is one of the primary reasons for the solidification of the language centers.
"I'm too old to learn a new language", "I don't like computers", "Physics/math is just too hard". I'm sure you've heard these from some of the worst students you know in the given areas.
Hippy.
You say hippy, I say rational adult. Regardless of my personal view of the world, the original statement was still incredibly offensive, even more so to any woman who has gained her job based solely on her own skills for the job, in the face of rampant sexism.
It's a sad state that my calling him out on his attitude results in disparaging remarks about my character. I thought geekhack was a better community.
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Regardless of my personal view of the world, the original statement was still incredibly offensive, even more so to any woman who has gained her job based solely on her own skills for the job, in the face of rampant sexism.
From my reading of the OP, this doesn't seem applicable here.
I thought geekhack was a better community.
Once you get this far, the disappointment never stops.
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ISA may be obsolete but the engineers that designed it were much smarter than the ones that design the current school buses. Just think of it as learning how some bus works. As for random opinions being the correct answer, thats always true. Consensus opinion IS the absolute truth. Everywhere you go in life, the opinion of some weasel will be held up as the truth and you will be expected to conform. Don't expect any tests you take in life to be about anything else. If you want to learn, do it for your own sake.
Anyway if she annoys you just pop a keycap in her ass, you'll probably only get 5 years.
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Are you sure the woman teaching the course has one in an even tangientially related field?
Also, a degree is a piece of paper. I've known some frighteningly computer illiterate COMPUTER SCIENCE professors in my life. They are theory people, but still.
I have lots of degrees. But that doesn't mean I'm qualified to teach a class in Chinese literacy, even if I do have basic skills in the area.
We had one of these Profs. in my Algorithm course in Computer Science.
I don't fault someone for not being able to use Windows like a professional (I know I can't), but when you require the TA to load your pre-created power point slide shows that came with the stupid book, it shows your lack of interest in continued education.
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Just to be clear: this is incredibly offensive. This chauvinistic attitude is one of the primary reason so few women go into technical and scientific fields, and it needs to stop.
why do I give a **** about the fact that few women are in technical and scientific fields? given my knowledge about females, that's probably a good thing.
This has nothing to do with a "chauvinistic attitude", i don't care if it's a dude or a woman, if he/she can't handle the ****in job and it's time to make a change.
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Actually the number of women in Computer Science has been declining for a decade.
Given the amount of intelligent discourse in this thread it's easy to see why.
i guarantee you that it has nothing to do with male chauvinism. We all know that men are just better at certain jobs than women, same vice versa. It's a fact and we need to live with it.
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Just to be clear: this is incredibly offensive. This chauvinistic attitude is one of the primary reason so few women go into technical and scientific fields, and it needs to stop.
I'm usually not a big fan of political correctness, but you're absolutely right on this one.
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George Gedds addresses it in this paper (http://www.ics.heacademy.ac.uk/italics/vol5iss4/geddes.pdf) (PDF), including giving references to other studies that discuss it. It was also addressed quite extensively in an ergonomics course I took, that was a joint program between CS, cognitive science, and the school of education. They had a lot of F-MRI studies showing the same areas of the brain light up when given a new technology based task and when a new language is introduced to the subject.
One of the interesting aspects of the paper linked above is that self-doubt is one of the primary reasons for the solidification of the language centers.
"I'm too old to learn a new language", "I don't like computers", "Physics/math is just too hard". I'm sure you've heard these from some of the worst students you know in the given areas.
You say hippy, I say rational adult. Regardless of my personal view of the world, the original statement was still incredibly offensive, even more so to any woman who has gained her job based solely on her own skills for the job, in the face of rampant sexism.
It's a sad state that my calling him out on his attitude results in disparaging remarks about my character. I thought geekhack was a better community.
well first of all this is the keyboard section, i take anything non-related to kbs here as a joke for the most part. If that offended you then I'm sorry, but there is no need to take it up to the "Geekhack community" level. I don't represent the geekhack commnuity and my words certainlt do not, either.
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There's certainly plenty of women still on geekhack, judging by all the whinging *****es.
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The other thing I like about women is they can spell correctly and communicate better.
At the same time as they cook, clean and iron.
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well first of all this is the keyboard section, i take anything non-related to kbs here as a joke for the most part. If that offended you then I'm sorry, but there is no need to take it up to the "Geekhack community" level. I don't represent the geekhack commnuity and my words certainlt do not, either.
You might not believe you do, but unfortunately for all of us, you are incorrect.
We all represent the community to someone on the outside. They would read this thread, and might (somewhat accurately) assume there is a certain misogyny inherent in the community. You might think you are funny. I might think you are offensive.
Also, just to note, I'm not sure where you are located geographically, but at least in the UK and US, the courts have ruled that forum statements can be grounds for a libel charge. Precedent has been set such that even comments like yours, that are "intended humorously," can constitute libel.
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Also, just to note, I'm not sure where you are located geographically, but at least in the UK and US, the courts have ruled that forum statements can be grounds for a libel charge. Precedent has been set such that even comments like yours, that are "intended humorously," can constitute libel.
And not a single **** was given that day.
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You might not believe you do, but unfortunately for all of us, you are incorrect.
We all represent the community to someone on the outside. They would read this thread, and might (somewhat accurately) assume there is a certain misogyny inherent in the community. You might think you are funny. I might think you are offensive.
Also, just to note, I'm not sure where you are located geographically, but at least in the UK and US, the courts have ruled that forum statements can be grounds for a libel charge. Precedent has been set such that even comments like yours, that are "intended humorously," can constitute libel.
misogyny? wow man now you are just pulling stuff out of your bottom right now.
My mom is a college professor, she does quantum mechanics, and guess what, if there is one thing that she taught me well, it's that women COULD just be as competent as men intellectually.
what the OP said is clearly not the case here, however, it has nothing to do with her being a female, she just happened to be one and I had to make a joke given that I know nothing about this person except that she is in fact, a woman.
btw, I don't think it constitute a libel, I don't even know who this woman is after all, am I right?
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I wasn't saying you were misogynistic, I was saying there is a certain thread of it within this community.
And I think you learned the wrong lesson from your mom. Women ARE just as intellectually competent as men. Unfortunately (and your mom should be able to attest to this) they are held to a much different standard. They can't just be "as good" as their male counterparts, they have to be better, for the same position, unfortunately.
And what the OP is describing has nothing to do with being a woman, you are correct. And it's quite likely she was hired to teach a different class, and got stuck in this one to fill a vacancy, nothing more. That happens all the time in academia.
And your joke was distinctly offensive, unfortunately. It just enhances the anti-female aura (also known as misogyny) that geekhack already has.
And according to several of my friends who are practicing lawyers, it can constitute libel, if the target of the comment chooses to take it that far. Not that it's likely in this case, but still. On a public forum such as geekhack, you really do have to be careful with what you say in regards to other people. Especially if its google indexing day.
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I wasn't saying you were misogynistic, I was saying there is a certain thread of it within this community.
And I think you learned the wrong lesson from your mom. Women ARE just as intellectually competent as men. Unfortunately (and your mom should be able to attest to this) they are held to a much different standard. They can't just be "as good" as their male counterparts, they have to be better, for the same position, unfortunately.
And what the OP is describing has nothing to do with being a woman, you are correct. And it's quite likely she was hired to teach a different class, and got stuck in this one to fill a vacancy, nothing more. That happens all the time in academia.
And your joke was distinctly offensive, unfortunately. It just enhances the anti-female aura (also known as misogyny) that geekhack already has.
And according to several of my friends who are practicing lawyers, it can constitute libel, if the target of the comment chooses to take it that far. Not that it's likely in this case, but still. On a public forum such as geekhack, you really do have to be careful with what you say in regards to other people. Especially if its google indexing day.
well I don't sense any misogynistic attitude at geekhack, everyone here is quite friendly and helpful, if there is a anti-female aura well all I can say is that it's the interwebz we are dealing with here.
also for a libel, by definition, my statement has to be false in the first place. I'm innocent until you prove me wrong.
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I think people are taking things way too seriously
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I used to lecture. Lecturers don't always get to pick the all subjects they teach.
Being hostile will only make her dread that class. Time to influence, not attack.
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At the same time as they cook, clean and iron.
Why do you troll if you are going to put so little effort into it.
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Why do you troll if you are going to put so little effort into it.
Lead on MacDuff.
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*scratches head*
what ever happened to our Rants area?
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Lead on MacDuff.
He said, as he loaded up classic_misogyny_lines.txt, pondering whether or not to request the poster to bring him a sandwich.
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You're really terrible at this by the way.
edit: hth
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I used to lecture. Lecturers don't always get to pick the all subjects they teach.
Being hostile will only make her dread that class. Time to influence, not attack.
Reminded me of our substitute chemistry teacher back in high school, she was a earth science teacher but for some reason we didn't have any chem teacher at the school for a semester and she had to fill in.
She didn't have a clue about chemistry, couldn't even calculate moles correctly most of the time, but that doesn't stop her from being a GREAT teacher and inspirer, we all loved her despite her lack of knowledge on the subject. I hated chemistry but enjoyed her teaching tremendously.
back the what the OP was saying, I'd think that it probably has something to do with her being bad at teaching, not necessarily because she lacks computer literacy. I'm more than computer literate but I know for sure that I would be a horrible lecturer if I ever need to teach someone what I know.
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Make sure you get an A from the teacher ;)
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Nice thread.
In high school 25 years ago I had a computer science teacher who was female. She was awesome, super knowledgeable, she knew assembly and fortran as well as the other languages like Pascal and Basic, as well as hardware, and we were dealing with dos of course, and helped sponsor with me the first computer club in the school. Sex really has nothing to do with computer knowledge. Attractiveness does though. She was overweight and not exactly pretty on the eyes. lol
Of course a girl I watch on youtube called Finapon is super hot and studying computer science in Germany, so there are exceptions.
I hope you just look into testing out though so you don't have to deal with that class. I've been subjected to idiot professors a lot, and one caused me to have to drop out of one college attempt since he taught multiple classes that I was required to take in that school, and we would constantly argue in his class. He actually failed me in a class, because I didn't agree with an opinion of his that technology was evil (he was a total hippy). I did the assignments and papers and he still failed me because he said I was hostile in my writing, when I had straight A's in other classes including a writing course. Other students constantly complained about him as well.
I learned a lot from that experience that you just have to deal with idiots sometimes and go along to get along. I think that's one of the main things that college is there to teach you in fact. In later attempts I just went along with them, and treated dealing with these bad professors more like a game, and tried to predict what idiocy they would base their grade on.
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Finapon
that's the most lifelike android i've ever seen ;)
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that's the most lifelike android i've ever seen ;)
I think she might be. She's amazing. She speaks Japanese, German, and English fluently, and studies computer science, and makes amazing youtube videos and just became a youtube partner. lol
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now *that's* a gushing review. here take this, you'll need it ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orianaitaly/3296554674/
now back to our regularly scheduled bitter arguments... :)
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fascinating progression on this thread, but to address the original rant -
Phaedrus, what is exactly the goal of the class as stated in the syllabus? Is the course designed to make one proficient in programming or just to familiarize one with the concept of computers and what they can potentially be used for? A lot of introductory courses are only designed to introduce very basic concepts such as how to use an application like Word or something, not really as prerequisites for a degree in comp sci, but for ordinary people who would probably have a heart attack if they were ever in a situation to find themselves looking at this:
A:\>
and they would probably freak out thinking they'd broken the machine since that is not a very helpful or inviting line if you don't know what the hell it means. Such a level of course might only be designed to let people understand that AV exists and why rather than be able to distinguish between the malware and the real thing. Those skills would be actual Computer Science type courses, I think, as opposed to Computer Literacy. There are people who use computers day in and day out that have never seen a dos prompt and probably wouldn't know what to call it if they did, so in that light, maybe she isn't so out of her league as it may seem.
Surely you could test out of this if this is a requirement, or at least substitute a higher level class that would be more appropriately challenging for your skill set. It sounds as though it might be more difficult to get through the "easy A" just by having to sit through the class. =)
As to the problem of teachers who can't teach, this happens because there isn't really a way to find out if someone is a good instructor until they are given the chance to instruct. We had a couple of science teachers who didn't last too long at my high school because they didn't meet the standards expected of them, though they were probably fine somewhere else where parents weren't spending upwards of 15K a year for their kids to go to high school. I guess you spend that kind of money and things get taken care of - My tenth grade Chem teacher didn't even make it past parent's night. My mom is a biology teacher and she defended him when I first complained that he was an idiot, but after parent's night she had to agree with me. Next class I was shocked to find we had a new instructor who was MUCH better. I was very impressed with that kind of response time, to say the least.
Now as to the PC-ness of sexist comments, perhaps we need to look inward at what made the original joke funny - I snickered, and I am female, so what does this mean? The thing of it is, had the instructor been male, the comment wouldn't have been made, nor would it have been funny if it had, so there IS some substance behind people taking offense to it, I think, even though I didn't find it offensive at face value. I will have to think about that some more...
also - an afterthought on the teaching - Mom's currently tutoring a lot of the neighborhood kids in algebra and the parents are willing to spend some $ for her as a private tutor just because she was a teacher for 35 years. Nevermind that she taught ESL biology and that algebra is NOT her strong suit by any means. For her higher level students she often calls me in a panic to help because she's run across a problem she can't do. BUT despite that, most of her kids have improved by a letter grade or more because she is good at teaching concepts, though not so good at doing math itself. Go figure...
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fascinating progression on this thread, but to address the original rant -
Phaedrus, what is exactly the goal of the class as stated in the syllabus? Is the course designed to make one proficient in programming or just to familiarize one with the concept of computers and what they can potentially be used for? A lot of introductory courses are only designed to introduce very basic concepts such as how to use an application like Word or something, not really as prerequisites for a degree in comp sci, but for ordinary people who would probably have a heart attack if they were ever in a situation to find themselves looking at this:
A:\>
and they would probably freak out thinking they'd broken the machine since that is not a very helpful or inviting line if you don't know what the hell it means. Such a level of course might only be designed to let people understand that AV exists and why rather than be able to distinguish between the malware and the real thing. Those skills would be actual Computer Science type courses, I think, as opposed to Computer Literacy. There are people who use computers day in and day out that have never seen a dos prompt and probably wouldn't know what to call it if they did, so in that light, maybe she isn't so out of her league as it may seem.
Surely you could test out of this if this is a requirement, or at least substitute a higher level class that would be more appropriately challenging for your skill set. It sounds as though it might be more difficult to get through the "easy A" just by having to sit through the class. =)
As to the problem of teachers who can't teach, this happens because there isn't really a way to find out if someone is a good instructor until they are given the chance to instruct. We had a couple of science teachers who didn't last too long at my high school because they didn't meet the standards expected of them, though they were probably fine somewhere else where parents weren't spending upwards of 15K a year for their kids to go to high school. I guess you spend that kind of money and things get taken care of - My tenth grade Chem teacher didn't even make it past parent's night. My mom is a biology teacher and she defended him when I first complained that he was an idiot, but after parent's night she had to agree with me. Next class I was shocked to find we had a new instructor who was MUCH better. I was very impressed with that kind of response time, to say the least.
First intelligent post in almost two pages. :)
We were given a syllabus, but I seem to have lost it. That reminds me, she favors giant packets. She's given us at least three packets that were over 10 pages, including the syllabus. She gives you said packet, then puts it on the projector and mumbles through it at a mile a minute, taking about fifteen minutes, gives a blackboard assignment, then wanders around staring vacantly and responding to questions for help with "I can't tell you the answer". Yeah, there's more to it than just incompetency.
Anyway, I don't recall the exact wording of the syllabus, but it was the usual obtuse paragraph that says basically nothing. I know how to read between the lines, and even so all I was receiving was:
What I consider computer literacy:
Knowing the difference between a PC, laptop, netbook, tablet, etc. and their pros and cons
Knowing the various input and output devices a PC may have
Knowing that "Mac vs. PC" is like saying "Boeing 737 vs. Airplanes"
Knowing what an operating system, on a basic level at least
Knowing what a web browser is
Knowing how to use basic office programs
Knowing how to browse the web safely and avoid viruses and phishing sites
Knowing how to distinguish spam from actual emails
Knowing how to tell when a problem is actually caused by a virus
Knowing how to tell your antivirus from malware pretending to be an antivirus
--^Related: Knowing that McAfee and Norton are ****, get 'em to use Kaspersky or ESET or something else that actually works
Having a basic familiarity with the theory behind computers, at least on a very simple, abstract level
Having a glancing familiarity with the inside of a PC (to the point of being able to say "this is a motherboard" "this is RAM" "this is a hard drive)
Having a basic familiarity with some of the major companies in the IT industry and what they do, including Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Apple, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, etc.
I consider that baseline computer literacy. And it's what I would teach, if it were my place to do so.
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Just ask if you can test out.
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Just ask if you can test out.
Even assuming I can, this woman is not the person to be teaching this class, period. I said in the OP that she is doing more harm than good by confusing and frustrating students, and I stand by that. Besides, I've already agreed with other students that we're going to talk to the department head (3-4 of us).
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Unfortunately teachers like this exist in every school. It's an unfortunate byproduct of the current system. I was in your position about a decade ago, and I have one solution. Pick your battles. I understand you are paying (cash/grants/loans/scholarships) for an education, but getting on the bad side of a department head isn't the way to start a college career. If you know the content, I would move on.
I also understand the urge to make things right, even if it's for the benefit of others. When the CS sub-culture of meritocracy, is thrown against the educational systems bureaucracy, things clash. While this doesn't excuse this specific teacher I just wanted to reiterate the point to pick your battles.
If your goal is to get a degree, then abide by the rules of the game.
If your goal is to learn, then I'd suggest self-study while in school and passing that study off as "projects".
If you can't stand the fact that this teacher is there and you have an overwhelming urge to become an activist, then think about what you're doing very thoroughly. If you really do want to make it better for others don't be held to the mindset "oh, this is broke because the teachers sucks, so the fix is to get a new teacher". I'd suggest being a little bit more cordial and join the student council, ACM, or whatever organization. Don't, repeat, don't be on the wrong side of a "teachers lounge conference".
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Such a level of course might only be designed to let people understand that AV exists and why rather than be able to distinguish between the malware and the real thing. Those skills would be actual Computer Science type courses, I think, as opposed to Computer Literacy. There are people who use computers day in and day out that have never seen a dos prompt and probably wouldn't know what to call it if they did, so in that light, maybe she isn't so out of her league as it may seem.
Actually, that would probably be administration, or maybe just the generic title of "Computer Repair".
Computer Science covers theory(eg, what sorting algorithm is best for sorting this list under these conditions).
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it seems like every computer class i have taken has been horrible, but easy A's. the students always know more than the teachers. it always feels like the teachers are trying to tell us stuff that is common knowledge, and the way the teach it never makes sense haha.
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Actually, that would probably be administration, or maybe just the generic title of "Computer Repair".
Computer Science covers theory(eg, what sorting algorithm is best for sorting this list under these conditions).
Computer science is really just a branch of maths, particularly stuff do with formal logic and set theory.
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Unfortunately teachers like this exist in every school. It's an unfortunate byproduct of the current system. I was in your position about a decade ago, and I have one solution. Pick your battles. I understand you are paying (cash/grants/loans/scholarships) for an education, but getting on the bad side of a department head isn't the way to start a college career. If you know the content, I would move on.
I also understand the urge to make things right, even if it's for the benefit of others. When the CS sub-culture of meritocracy, is thrown against the educational systems bureaucracy, things clash. While this doesn't excuse this specific teacher I just wanted to reiterate the point to pick your battles.
If your goal is to get a degree, then abide by the rules of the game.
If your goal is to learn, then I'd suggest self-study while in school and passing that study off as "projects".
If you can't stand the fact that this teacher is there and you have an overwhelming urge to become an activist, then think about what you're doing very thoroughly. If you really do want to make it better for others don't be held to the mindset "oh, this is broke because the teachers sucks, so the fix is to get a new teacher". I'd suggest being a little bit more cordial and join the student council, ACM, or whatever organization. Don't, repeat, don't be on the wrong side of a "teachers lounge conference".
There is some merit to this line of thinking, but as one who, in 8th grade, left an anonymous note for my life science teacher to let him know that his classes were excruciatingly boring and his lecture style could benefit from some less traditional approaches, and who, in 9th, cited specific negative examples of her English professor's own behavior in the research paper that was worth 40 percent of our grade for the semester, I can well understand the desire to speak up. So I suggest, if you must, try to be diplomatic in the approach, or at least have solid backing for your stance that is documented.
Perhaps a careful conversation directly with the professor with an offering of services to help improve or focus the curriculum as an aide may be more productive and less adversarial? (This is not the best approach if you don't feel that you have the face to face finesse to pull it off without earning an F in the course for pissing off the teacher, but should it result in that, you at least have some grounds for dispute since you can easily prove better knowledge of the subject matter than she.)
Since it is not certain what circumstances have put the instructor there, perhaps it might be a little unfair to start by going over her head, though. For all you know this was a last minute substitution of teachers when something befell the one who was supposed to be there. i find it surprising that a teacher who has "packets" to hand out doesn't know the material if they put in the effort of making packets to begin with, but if the packets are from some other source, that could also be very telling as far as whether or not the instructor was even originally intended for that class.
There are some critical questions about circumstance that would also influence how I might proceed as well. For starters, what sort of institution is it? Public or private? That can really dictate an entirely different best choice of action depending upon which it is, as well as how many students attend the school and the class itself.
FYI- the outcome of my situations: The note I left was not as anonymous as i had intended since the next day I was asked to stay after class by the instructor who apparently had figured it out. But rather than in trouble, I got to share the techniques of some of my past excellent instructors with a teacher who was really trying to improve his ability to get through to us. He came up with a painfully dry "cell mitosis game" but at least he tried and was better than what the rest of the year could have been like if I'd left it alone. (His first semester at our school was unfortunately his last, but at least he made it past Parents night to the end of the semester long class.)
The English paper was an impulse fueled by my own frustration with a teacher I hated and who I felt hated me - I dropped my original topic in favor of examining the direct relationship between teacher's expectations and student performance just two days before the rough draft was due. It was well written and argued, but still a pretty decent risk to put the prof in the middle of it all so unmistakeably. I let my nerdiest friend read it before handing it in and she very carefully said, "Well... You'll either get an 'A' on this... or an 'F'." And, once again, I was asked to stick around when class let out the day those came back to us.
Turns out the guy, before becoming head of our upper school English dept., had previously been a professor at Carnegie Mellon or the like. Our class was his first, and very rocky, exposure to junior high. (My mom, even after 35 of teaching in a Los Angeles public school district swore she would never touch a junior high class with a ten-foot pole if her life depended on it.) He simply didn't know how to handle our level of maturity, or rather, lack thereof. Though he had established himself as an excellent and passionate instructor at the upper grade levels, he was lost and nearly driven mad by a small group of 14 year old girls.
He actually thanked me for having the courage to write that paper - and the balls to hand it in. He admitted that my paper stung him, said he actually winced at recognizing himself in it and actually apologized to me personally and even tried to make amends with the class. I got to have him again in upper school, and to this day I think of him as one of my favorite and best instructors and someone who had the greatest hand in developing my writing. And, of course, I got an 'A' on the paper and in the class. [I don't think, though, that he ever took on another 9th grade English class... =)]
I should reiterate that these happy outcomes were both within the same school that had our chem teacher replaced within two days of the Parents meeting, so a small expensive institution is likely the most receptive to any complaints coming from the student body, while a larger university may have a lot more red tape or even bigger concerns than the quality of instruction of such an entry level course. It is good advice, not only to pick your battles, but if you pick this one, to plan it carefully so as to avoid any unnecessary casualties on either side. Remember that teachers, even the incompetent ones, are still people first with feelings and, more often than not, good intentions.
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You're lucky Voix. I guess I had similar hopes that my situation with my college teacher would turn out well. I had high hopes since my mother was also a teacher, but it all turned out horribly for me.
I also tried to organize students to make complaints to the dean about him, which they did, but it didn't help me in the end. The teacher apparently had a conference about the matter with the dean, but the teacher wasn't fired and he also refused to reverse my grades, which made going to that school pointless for me.
I hope your problem turns out more like Voix than mine.
I think as someone else said in this thread. College these days has mostly become about obtaining a piece of paper, not really about learning. That piece of paper is more a sign that you can deal with people than it is that you know a certain subject.
I tried to go it on my own and learn on my own for a decade or more, and it's tough, because while you may know a million more times about a subject than someone with a degree, it's that person with a degree that's going to get a good job ahead of you, and be placed in a position over you, because no one will respect you, or give you credit that you know what you do know without one.
If I had it all to do again in that early college attempt of mine I would have just shut up and gone along with my idiot teacher. I would have probably had a much easier and nicer life.
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You're lucky Voix...
You ain't jus whistlin' Dixie, son... I can't possibly express the amount of understatement in that sentiment. I am utterly amazed at the quality of the educators I have been privileged with since I was 7 years old. It is grossly unfair that many only get one or two in a lifetime that stand out if they are lucky while I can't think of a year that passed by without at least one of note, and half of those years were at a public school. Even if you take into account how my parents chose their neighborhood by the school district it still doesn't balance the odds of me having instructors that put such passion into their craft.
One madman actually took 14 seventh graders on a car/camping western loop tour of the US for two weeks once summer vacation started - on his own time, mind you! He would have taken us across the US from coast to coast had it been a feasible task dealing with the rental station wagons all because of a Geography project we had done that year. Were it not for Don Pedersen I wouldn't have yet seen the Grand Canyon, Carlsbad Caverns, or Old Faithful in person. I'm still trying to track him down to say THANK YOU now. What teacher would dare do something like that in today's litigious society? (And this guy at the PUBLIC school! Clearly, he must have been insane...)
And having a teacher that outstanding nearly every year of schooling? IMO that is far surpassing "lucky" and more like entering the realm of "The Force" ... I need to find a way to give some of that back to the universe.
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Computer science is really just a branch of maths, particularly stuff do with formal logic and set theory.
We can't be bothered with constants!
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You know, Ripster, it takes a lot of Lego sets to get 9 of those skull heads.
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I will never understand why Americans call Lego sets "Legos". Lego as a brand name is used in the singular here in the UK: "Even Lego dies eventually". Where I'd say "I have lots of Lego" I've heard Americans say "I have lots of Legos".
I'm not putting English English above American English by any means here - there are several American usages that went across the Atlantic four hundred years ago and remained, whereas we've ditched them. And don't get me started on S/Z, books by certain Frenchmen aside.
Anyway, back OT:
I know what it's like being sent to teach a class you have no idea about. It's a case of blagging your way through it sometimes. Far from ideal I know.
As for statements like "the students know more than the teachers" and "there are people in their 60s who know about computers" don't forget, you reprehensible whippersnappers, that a mere 30 years ago 8-bit machines were very popular in the home. Dads everywhere stood aghast as their 8-yr old children outpaced them by the furlong within ten minutes of opening the box. Some things don't change. But those people who designed those 8-bit systems will probably know more about how to build a working computer from matchsticks and rubber bands than the current click-happy illiterates will ever hope for.*
*wink or lol or whatever.
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That was good. I made this face with my face :-D
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moar legos!
http://legoexpress.tumblr.com/
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I think she overheard us talking, and took down our names.
Now, regardless of whether she's guilty or not, it's war.
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Dude,
I think you should think of college professors like forum trolls, or mods on power trips. Half of them are there just to tick you off so you get thrown off the board, or in this case school. It doesn't matter how unreasonable you think they are, they're not the one that's going to get banned.
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I think she overheard us talking, and took down our names.
Now, regardless of whether she's guilty or not, it's war.
What, you were discussing this IN CLASS!?
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It my class, it is common to ***** about lecturers in non-discrete ways all the time. Sometimes we do it in front of other lecturers, who often laugh.
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To be honest, what pisses me off more than unqualified teachers are the oh-so-know-it-all students that just have to question everything the teacher does. Making the class pretty much unbearable for everyone else, just to pump up his self-esteem.
Yelling stuff like "HAHA INSTALL UBUNTU ON IT lol derp herp" out of nowhere and put on this smug face like they really just told the teacher off.
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Take it easy buddy, there are two sides to every story, she probably had to screw a dozen guys just to get this job, just get your A and be done with it :)
or a few pandas at which point I would give her any teaching position she wanted.
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First off, to all the people who said the class was designed to teach people humility and patience, screw that. It was marketed and designed to teach computer basics. To teach people who know nothing about the subject something. For an IT pro or even somebody in the same ballpark as an IT pro to go into that class and see so much fault with it is a disgrace to the higher learning facility and its HR department to boot.
That being said, if she's teaching a computer class it doesn't surprise me, but it's comments like this:
Just to be clear: this is incredibly offensive. This chauvinistic attitude is one of the primary reason so few women go into technical and scientific fields, and it needs to stop.
That allow for women to get jobs they can't do. Just because it's a woman; people like you turn it into a social faux pas to criticize. To be clear, I want women who can do my job to do my job, or men. People. But if I see a woman doing a job she isn't qualified to do, I immediately either question the HR department, or question her "references". This isn't just a chick teaching a class, this is a chick teaching a class she doesn't know a damned thing about. It's TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUES.
Save your hippy bull**** for a community who wants to read it. I'm not pandering to women, I'm demanding the same thing I'd demand from men: competence. Oh and ESPECIALLY in a teaching position, because blind leading the blind helps nobody.
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@OP,
School, like many things in life, is a game. The key is to play it well. That way you'll do well and be happy. You're not going to like all the professors you have, nor will you ever like every single person you work with or for or ever meet in life for that matter. But your attitude will determine the majority of your outcomes with other people. So play your cards right and you'll end up on top.
Sincerely,
\KL
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You spelled "Sincerely" wrong.
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Fixed. BTW OP, don't be like MW.
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Should I become a stupid English professor?
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Should I become a stupid English professor?
Depends...would it be an improvement?
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Depends...would it be an improvement?
Sure, he could troll the class by lecturing on the literary prowess of Stephanie Meyer.
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First off, to all the people who said the class was designed to teach people humility and patience, screw that. It was marketed and designed to teach computer basics. To teach people who know nothing about the subject something. For an IT pro or even somebody in the same ballpark as an IT pro to go into that class and see so much fault with it is a disgrace to the higher learning facility and its HR department to boot.
That being said, if she's teaching a computer class it doesn't surprise me, but it's comments like this:
That allow for women to get jobs they can't do. Just because it's a woman; people like you turn it into a social faux pas to criticize. To be clear, I want women who can do my job to do my job, or men. People. But if I see a woman doing a job she isn't qualified to do, I immediately either question the HR department, or question her "references". This isn't just a chick teaching a class, this is a chick teaching a class she doesn't know a damned thing about. It's TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUES.
Save your hippy bull**** for a community who wants to read it. I'm not pandering to women, I'm demanding the same thing I'd demand from men: competence. Oh and ESPECIALLY in a teaching position, because blind leading the blind helps nobody.
You clearly took my comment out of context. The stated belief was that she only got the job by screwing enough people. This is the offensive part. An incompetent man would be ridiculed, but without the ad hom attacks.
However, I definitely agree that it's abilities, not gender, that are important. That doesn't change the fact that chauvinism exists, and women have to be more qualified than men in many areas of science and technology, for the same jobs.
This teacher clearly is not that, but that doesn't make it acceptable to cast aspersions on her character. Her abilities, yes. But not her character.
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MW - have you heard of these two new keyboard forums that Sixty and Runeazn have?
I'm fine with posting here, thank you.
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You clearly took my comment out of context. The stated belief was that she only got the job by screwing enough people. This is the offensive part. An incompetent man would be ridiculed, but without the ad hom attacks.
However, I definitely agree that it's abilities, not gender, that are important. That doesn't change the fact that chauvinism exists, and women have to be more qualified than men in many areas of science and technology, for the same jobs.
This teacher clearly is not that, but that doesn't make it acceptable to cast aspersions on her character. Her abilities, yes. But not her character.
I'm all for not hating on somebody, but I'm not going to pay tuition so that my teacher can bumble her way through meeting gender and racial diversity requirements. I've been taught by women that knew the field, and by men who didn't. I'd say the same thing either way, all I ask is that I get my money's worth as a student.
Seriously, by the description I still say there were some favors involved, or a bad HR department.
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Or simply another teacher who left suddenly prior to the semester starting, and this was the only person who could cover the class?
That sort of thing happens a lot in academia, by the way.
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Or simply another teacher who left suddenly prior to the semester starting, and this was the only person who could cover the class?
That sort of thing happens a lot in academia, by the way.
Either way I have to pay for it?
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That's why class drops exist. Don't like the class, think it's poorly taught, you either deal with it, or you drop it.
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That's why class drops exist. Don't like the class, think it's poorly taught, you either deal with it, or you drop it.
I can think of many situations where neither is acceptable. But we will just agree to disagree.
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Great thread Phaedrus2129! I really enjoyed reading this on the my lunch break. Thanks all! <3 <3 <3 <3 This made my day.
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I have a BS in Software Development...and sadly, teachers like this are far too common. With my A+ certification course, we had a professor who had NO idea what he was talking about. The class had absolutely no hands-on hardware whatsoever because he insisted that it was "unnecessary" and that the best way to learn was to "study" diagrams and figures. It was really awful - all that we did was look at pictures of dated technology. He knew nothing whatsoever about modern hardware.
For what it's worth, only 3 of the ~20 people in the class ended up with their certification. What a joke.