geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: pitashen on Tue, 08 February 2011, 17:37:03

Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: pitashen on Tue, 08 February 2011, 17:37:03: So, many of you probably have already heard of KBTalking (squirrel) custom keyboard from Taiwan? It was a collective effort from a mech keyboard community, very much like this one, and they decided they wanted gathering everyone's input and then came up with final a keyboard design/features. It was distributed through group ordering instead of mass produce for retailers.

Lately, they are debuting a new scissor switch based light lit keyboard KBTalking Light which is kinda cool, most of us are probably not gonne be interested but here are the photos.

http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/27426
http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/27444
http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/27460

More importantly, there is another mech keyboard still under development. KBTalking Pure, A 60% keyboard basing on the philosophy of HHKB. Here is where they discuss how their final keyboard should be (sorry, in Chinese).

http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/23806

My point is. Is there such an opportunity for community brewed keyboard branded geekhack keyboard? I guess miniguru is kinda close, but whats your take on this??

Quote from: keyboardlover;292217
Update: I created a Poll to gauge interest: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=15167 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=15167)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Salash on Tue, 08 February 2011, 17:44:18: If there is, I am in.
That 60% keyboard with blank keycaps would look wonderful on my desk.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: sixty on Tue, 08 February 2011, 17:49:04: Back then, someone got an invoice from Costar (the OEM of Filco keyboards) and it came down to as low as $50 per custom branded keyboard when buying 50 or 100 of them. People here could not even agree on the colors of LEDs and nothing ever came out of it.

This community is much too disorganized for things like that to happen. If you want something to go through, you have to organize it and present it to people with a (very) limited choice. Just compare the doubleshot group order #3 and #1 vs #2 and you will see what I mean.

Full choice and taking in all wishes from users = absolute failure in a community of this size
Come up with an idea and present a concept with few choices for the users, collect money = great success
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: theferenc on Tue, 08 February 2011, 17:51:16: I agree with sixty on this one. Benevolent dictatorship works so much better in this type of community. It's always rather amused me iMav didn't claim BDFL (benevolent dictator for life) as his title.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Salash on Tue, 08 February 2011, 18:06:11: Quote from: sixty;291988
Back then, someone got an invoice from Costar (the OEM of Filco keyboards) and it came down to as low as $50 per custom branded keyboard when buying 50 or 100 of them. People here could not even agree on the colors of LEDs and nothing ever came out of it.

Who would we ask now? I bet we could get 50 - 100 people to go in on a blue switch, HHKB copy. Especially if it was half of the price of a HHKB.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: pitashen on Tue, 08 February 2011, 18:09:13: That would be cool :D
Before BKTalking, there was the TAclick, which used the platic mold of Matias Tactile Pro, and incorporate cherry switch and better keycaps.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: sixty on Tue, 08 February 2011, 18:22:55: Quote from: Salash;291994
Who would we ask now? I bet we could get 50 - 100 people to go in on a blue switch, HHKB copy. Especially if it was half of the price of a HHKB.

HHKB copy is not gonna happen since it will require a new mold -> $30000 tooling costs.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 08 February 2011, 18:52:26: Quote from: Salash;291994
Who would we ask now? I bet we could get 50 - 100 people to go in on a blue switch, HHKB copy. Especially if it was half of the price of a HHKB.

Ha! I was just about to say "if it has blues, I'm not interested." Now an ANSI tenkeyless with reds or clears would have my interest.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Minskleip on Tue, 08 February 2011, 18:55:50: Another tenkeyless? Make something really spaced. Something truly ergonomic ;)

The keycaps in the OP is really cool btw. I don't know anything about runes, but they look cool.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Tue, 08 February 2011, 21:30:35: Quote from: keyboardlover;292009
Ha! I was just about to say "if it has blues, I'm not interested." Now an ANSI tenkeyless with reds or clears would have my interest.

Lol, me too. Actually, an ANSI tenkeyless with reds or clears would probably generate some interest. To my knowledge, limited that it is, no such thing exists. The only clears I know of are the Deck Legend and the one Cherry Corp, both of which are full size. Sixty said in another thread that reds aren't actually in production though, so that one is out.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: lootbag on Tue, 08 February 2011, 21:32:28: Quote from: keyboardlover;292009
Ha! I was just about to say "if it has blues, I'm not interested." Now an ANSI tenkeyless with reds or clears would have my interest.

+1
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 08 February 2011, 21:35:03: Quote from: Mr. Perfect
Lol, me too. Actually, an ANSI tenkeyless with reds or clears would probably generate some interest. To my knowledge, limited that it is, no such thing exists.

Exactly!

Quote from: Mr. Perfect

Sixty said in another thread that reds aren't actually in production though, so that one is out.

The last I heard was that as of January this year, reds are back in production (due to be available on a forthcoming full-size Leopold board). No idea yet if they'll be available on a tenkeyless though...
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: lootbag on Tue, 08 February 2011, 21:37:53: I want Cherry MX Red or Clear in tenkeyless or 60%!
It will never happen.
:(

KL, we should make our own :D
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Tue, 08 February 2011, 21:38:48: Really? Good news! Maybe they'll stop being so damn rare now.

Now, about that tenkeyless with clears...
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: cyberphine on Tue, 08 February 2011, 22:27:41: Quote from: sixty;292000
HHKB copy is not gonna happen since it will require a new mold -> $30000 tooling costs.

I'll preference this saying that I have limited knowledge of this subject. I sourced a small plastic electronic.

I've been doing some research in this area. There are tons of places that say they can do rapid prototyping for molds. Usually around the 1.5k-2.5k area. That comes with a limited run mold. Usually can do a couple hundred molds before it becomes malformed. Anyone look into the rapid prototyping companies? (not the 3d printing like shapeways)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: lootbag on Tue, 08 February 2011, 23:34:50: lowpoly needs to bring his keyboard to fruition
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 09 February 2011, 00:39:55: I tried to put together a homebrew board that everyone could buy their own switches and would just be the case, plate, and circuit board, but ran into difficulties trying to punch square holes in metal. It would also be very customizable for everyone. I was able to get caps from Signature plastics and assemble a prototype board using alps switches, and a teensy controller which is customizable.

The main thing hanging it up is the metal sheet-work.. The circuit boards and case can be conquered I think fairly easily, there are a lot of techniques to do them. I think I could probably cold cast the case with silicone mold like I do my sculptures, so it wouldn't need a high pressure injection cast. I developed a method to cold cast so that the resin doesn't have any bubbles for my sculpture which should work really well.

It's all hung up on being able to do a plate for a reasonable amount right now.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: gilgam on Wed, 09 February 2011, 02:54:25: i work near a laser cutting factory. Maybe i can ask...

what do you need ?
size thickness quality of steel how many holes etc.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: laden3 on Wed, 09 February 2011, 03:43:40: How about a keyboard without a metal plate?

If it is possible, will you guys consider a flexible pcb?
Trying to imitate the curvature of the IBM model m keyboards might produce some interesting typing experience.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 09 February 2011, 04:08:34: Quote from: gilgam;292151
i work near a laser cutting factory. Maybe i can ask...

what do you need ?
size thickness quality of steel how many holes etc.

My thread is here. http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:10454
(http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:10454)

I have detailed drawings there. I can send you some that has the plate layout if you want as well. The idea was to have two different plates, one for alps, one for cherry, but we can start with cherry. That would be cool. We need to get them for less than $100, preferably less than $50 to be at all competitive or reasonable though which is the problem that I've been encountering. Every method seems to be way over that.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 09 February 2011, 04:10:03: Quote from: laden3;292160
How about a keyboard without a metal plate?

If it is possible, will you guys consider a flexible pcb?
Trying to imitate the curvature of the IBM model m keyboards might produce some interesting experience.

KBC is doing that as well, and one of the things I don't like. The thing we need a plate for is because most existing keyboards have plates in them and are plate mounted switches. If you don't have a plate it's extremely easy to not have the switches lineup, especially if you're using alps switches. With alps you have to have a plate or the switches won't be in order at all. Not to mention just the durability and sound/feel of the board is sacrificed.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Wed, 09 February 2011, 04:51:32: A board with MX reds, possibly tenkeyless and possibly backlit, maybe with a dash of Deck-Style doubleshots AND branded "Geekhack" ?

Awesome I say :D
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: calavera on Wed, 09 February 2011, 05:22:32: I'm waiting for my fellow Koreans at OTD to sell their custom kids on ebay so I can build my own. Supposed to materialize this year..no set date though. :(
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 09 February 2011, 06:20:57: I was actually going to say, I prefer PCB-mounted to plate-mounted anyway. Nicer feel and much easier to mod. Plus if you choose a strong, quality case you won't have flexing (less common in a tenkeyless format anyway). Seems like we have some interest here. Maybe I'll do a poll. Have to look into rapid prototyping... =)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Eclairz on Wed, 09 February 2011, 06:47:12: I would say to keep it simple, Tenkeyless Blue Cherry, key remover tool, N-Key rollover, Additional keycaps e.g. apple/windows/linux, GeekHack Esc, WASD, relendable keycaps

Extras would be USB hub, mini usb detachable cable.

Extras which would significantly increase costs due to special functions or tooling such as "dip switch" to change keymaps, backlighting, function key to do macros. Can wait til the next revision, if demand is there.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 09 February 2011, 07:09:56: Quote from: calavera;292172
I'm waiting for my fellow Koreans at OTD to sell their custom kids on ebay

There is so much wrong with this statement; I don't even know where to begin.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 09 February 2011, 07:13:32: White Rice did the group buy thing right. Basically, one person needs to choose something, say, "here it is, do you want to buy it?" and tell everyone to pretty much ****-off with their opinions. Once, you start asking everybody what they want, it turns into the Round 3 Group Buy with about 8 million options, expensive, and never comes to fruition.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 09 February 2011, 07:26:13: I think it's possible to make a board that the buyer can fully customize. The restriction is going to be the pcb, which is a problem I and others have conquered with the teensy controller and KBC gave the idea of having a pcb drilled both for alps and cherry. Even if you don't like the pcb that we make, with the teensy controller it'll be easy to rematrix it because it's not going to have wires being strung all over like a standard board will which will allow the buyer to complete rewire and reprogram the thing if they want.

The only other restriction is the plate, which if you want, you don't have to buy the plate, but it will make it more difficult to solder, and get everything perfectly straight.

A completely customizable board is a very possible goal, as I and others have proven with my and their prototypes, and at a relatively low cost, it's just some relatively minor know-how issues holding it up. Also motivation for me. I need to put some more time into searching out cost effective solutions.

The humble hacker is a board that has been fully prototyped as well, the only issue there again is cost, but it's a model that I took a lot of inspiration from. DMW created completely customizable firmware that will run on teensy's that is amazing, which was the biggest step. So many hurdles have been crossed, it's relatively little holding it up in my mind. It's mainly just getting costs down.

I was watching a hak5darren show recently and they had a guy on there that created a bluetooth dongle that you could sniff with. He used this service:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mossmann/ubertooth-one-an-open-source-bluetooth-test-tool

This might be a possibility. This would give us the money to go ahead and get manufacturers in China ect which would make it a reality.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: lootbag on Wed, 09 February 2011, 07:39:37: If and when we do get to the case for the keyboard, I was thinking an acrylic case like the Koreans do it would be nice.

I have access to plenty of acrylic and a couple laser cutters at Architecture school!
I use it to cut pieces for my physical models all the time.

EDIT:

Quote from: itlnstln;292195
White Rice did the group buy thing right. Basically, one person needs to choose something, say, "here it is, do you want to buy it?" and tell everyone to pretty much ****-off with their opinions. Once, you start asking everybody what they want, it turns into the Round 3 Group Buy with about 8 million options, expensive, and never comes to fruition.

+1
Take it or leave it :D
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 09 February 2011, 07:43:08: Quote from: itlnstln
Once, you start asking everybody what they want, it turns into the Round 3 Group Buy with about 8 million options, expensive, and never comes to fruition.

Not to mention wayyyyy confusing. I propose:
Tenkeyless, ANSI layout, PCB-mounted clears or reds, black case (good, solid construction), vintage-style white/gray doubleshots, vintage custom GeekHack key
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 09 February 2011, 07:57:09: Quote
Once, you start asking everybody what they want, it turns into the Round 3 Group Buy with about 8 million options, expensive, and never comes to fruition.

Just to clarify, I am not trying to rag on 7_bit; I respect what he's trying to do. When you try to please everyone around here, though, things turn very messy very fast.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: lootbag on Wed, 09 February 2011, 07:57:25: Quote from: keyboardlover;292199
Not to mention wayyyyy confusing. I propose:
Tenkeyless, ANSI layout, PCB-mounted clears or reds, black case (good, solid construction), vintage-style white/gray doubleshots, vintage custom GeekHack key

I am pretty sure a lot of people would agree with almost everything on that list.
I for one, would vote for PCB mounted reds (or clears) as well.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 09 February 2011, 08:13:32: Oh, and windowed caps and scroll lock keys with blue LEDs (these would be non-doubleshot but similar look and feel) =)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 09 February 2011, 08:25:27: Update: I created a Poll to gauge interest: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=15167 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=15167)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: pitashen on Wed, 09 February 2011, 08:59:33: I think having all kinds of opinions coming from the community is fine. The important part is to have a few selected people who are (able to be )in charge of making final calls after collecting all the opinions (useful or not) and narrowing down the options that's viable.

I mean, this new scissor switch keyboard KBTalking came up with even got a timer to remind you that your instant noodle is ready (common junk food among asian computer geek/ hardcore gamers with no life).
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Shazb0t on Wed, 09 February 2011, 13:52:58: Quote from: keyboardlover;292199
Not to mention wayyyyy confusing. I propose:
Tenkeyless, ANSI layout, PCB-mounted clears or reds, black case (good, solid construction), vintage-style white/gray doubleshots, vintage custom GeekHack key

This guys knows what he is talking about. This keyboard style with clear/red switch choice is what we are all missing. Other styles can be bought from vendors. If it comes down to this ^, I would gladly buy one.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 09 February 2011, 13:57:50: Thanks! Don't forget to vote (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=15167)!
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: tarc on Wed, 09 February 2011, 14:03:27: I would be interested.

Would arrow keys be possible on this kind of layout?

I was searching for a compact (+/-12") tenkeyless with arrows and there isn't so much choice. Just the Choc afaik...

tarc
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 09 February 2011, 14:10:46: This would be a tenkeyless style similar to a Filco or Realforce tenkeyless so yes, it would have arrow keys!
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 09 February 2011, 14:22:49: I propose a rambling 100 page discussion before we all settle on another Filco clone.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: pitashen on Wed, 09 February 2011, 14:39:03: Quote from: ch_123;292437
I propose a rambling 100 page discussion before we all settle on another Filco clone.

+1
Fair enough!
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Reaif on Wed, 09 February 2011, 15:14:32: You have my vote.

I really like the idea of having some reds. Compact + arrow keys? YES!
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 09 February 2011, 15:16:56: Great!
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 09 February 2011, 15:31:45: Just later on, but why not have a CNC milled aluminum case with say, white keycaps? And integrate the plate with the top half of the case.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: laden3 on Wed, 09 February 2011, 15:53:25: Quote from: chimera15;292164
KBC is doing that as well, and one of the things I don't like. The thing we need a plate for is because most existing keyboards have plates in them and are plate mounted switches. If you don't have a plate it's extremely easy to not have the switches lineup, especially if you're using alps switches. With alps you have to have a plate or the switches won't be in order at all. Not to mention just the durability and sound/feel of the board is sacrificed.

I was thinking about using the top case as the plate to hold the switches as well, and it doesn't have to be a metal plate. If I am not mistaken, a Korean guy made a keyboard like this with an acrylic case.

As for alps switches, it is almost impossible to find new ones unless you order them from some Taiwanese company who are still making them. I think a top case for Cherry switches is more practical for now.

I understand that the results of using plate mounted switches without a metal plate is not satisfying.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: spolia optima on Wed, 09 February 2011, 17:43:05: I like where this thread is going, and I'd like to add my .2

How about a bunch of us get together and throw down on a custom Cherry build?
Say, a G80-3000 or G80-1800?

I'm sure a lot of us would agree on:
-Brown switches
-NKRO (will add a few $ per board but worth it)
-Beige / white color (leaves room for custom RIT jobs)
-Standard lasered PBT caps (again, ripe for the RIT dye)
-Orange WASD / ESC keys
-Classy, modern geekhack logo lasered on upper left or right

I don't think we need to go all-out on a "first" geekhack board. Besides, the miniguru is still on the table. No need to steal it's thunder.
A nice ANSI G80-3000 with NKRO and brown switches is a safe route and a guaranteed kickass keyboard to boot.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: RiGS on Wed, 09 February 2011, 17:51:16: Quote from: spolia optima;292532
I like where this thread is going, and I'd like to add my .2

How about a bunch of us get together and throw down on a custom Cherry build?
Say, a G80-3000 or G80-1800?

I'm sure a lot of us would agree on:
-Brown switches
-NKRO (will add a few $ per board but worth it)
-Beige / white color (leaves room for custom RIT jobs)
-Standard lasered PBT caps (again, ripe for the RIT dye)
-Orange WASD / ESC keys
-Classy, modern geekhack logo lasered on upper left or right

I don't think we need to go all-out on a "first" geekhack board. Besides, the miniguru is still on the table. No need to steal it's thunder.
A nice ANSI G80-3000 with NKRO and brown switches is a safe route and a guaranteed kickass keyboard to boot.

Wow that makes sense. Actually blank pbt caps would be even better.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: spolia optima on Wed, 09 February 2011, 18:13:50: Quote from: RiGS;292538
Wow that makes sense. Actually blank pbt caps would be even better.

Yeah, like a white Das 2 with Nkro and a GH logo. That's what I am thinking.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: iMav on Wed, 09 February 2011, 21:02:58: I'd buy a few.

Is someone willing to take lead on this?
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 09 February 2011, 21:26:06: Quote from: iMav;292643
I'd buy a few.

Is someone willing to take lead on this?

If you're referring to my idea then yes, I am. However at the moment I'm only gauging interest with the poll. If there are enough people interested, then I am willing to take the lead on seeing how and if we can really make it happen.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Moogle Stiltzkin on Wed, 09 February 2011, 22:09:56: If your talking about custom cherry boards,

My suggestion is a geekhack custom metal plate for a G80-1000 series model modification part. They are hard to get, and i'm not too fond of pcb mounted boards because of durability/cleaning.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: JohnehJH on Wed, 09 February 2011, 22:23:00: I'm half on board for this. I've never bought a mechanical keyboard but if these were cherrys (blues/browns) at a reasonable price I'd be on it.

If there is going to be a logo, I don't think it should be on the face. The Rosewill 9000's logo was actually the reason I still haven't bought one. And no offense to geekhack, but from a typographic stand point, those e's are excruciating to look at (both "worn" in the same way, obvious font).

I think color should be voted on. I know there's more flexibility if it's beige / white, but I suspect more people are going to want black.

Yes for Tenkeyless, NKRO, if the the keycaps aren't blank they should be a respectable typeface.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Madidas on Thu, 10 February 2011, 00:53:40: Are we actually making progress here in this community ??? What I have read it`s almost impossible...

spolia optima put to gether nice board but I would like to give you an option.
"Dictator orders and it`s take it or leave it..."

-Tenkeyless keyboard (Filco look-a-like, maybe just a tighter package)
-Color would be snow white (freshly snowed snow) or just white/beige
-Cherry MX switches mounted on metal plate ( no idea what... blue/red/clear ??)
-Keycaps "blank" black, faint laser carved letters<- almost undetectable but you could feel it, if it`s possible
-Backlight: white LEDs (on+ some brightness levels and off possibility)
-Keycaps+LED: when off-> keycaps would be blank and when on-> white light would glow through carved letters
-Almost forget that orange ESC key
-NKRO of course
-Detachable USB-cord as an optional
-Geekhack logo lasered where Filco put their logo...

P.S. Sorry for some spelling and grammar mistakes
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: iMav on Thu, 10 February 2011, 06:28:13: I was actually referring to this (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=292532&postcount=48)...but I like all the ideas.

As far as geekhack branding is concerned, members are free to do so as long as it is a GH-community focused project. And the forum graphic does not need to be used...feel free to come up with something else that you would find more appealing to the eye. (the next update to the GH themes will have a different header graphic anyways)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 10 February 2011, 06:45:30: Quote from: spolia optima;292532
I like where this thread is going, and I'd like to add my .2

How about a bunch of us get together and throw down on a custom Cherry build?
Say, a G80-3000 or G80-1800?

I'm sure a lot of us would agree on:
-Brown switches
-NKRO (will add a few $ per board but worth it)
-Beige / white color (leaves room for custom RIT jobs)
-Standard lasered PBT caps (again, ripe for the RIT dye)
-Orange WASD / ESC keys
-Classy, modern geekhack logo lasered on upper left or right

I don't think we need to go all-out on a "first" geekhack board. Besides, the miniguru is still on the table. No need to steal it's thunder.
A nice ANSI G80-3000 with NKRO and brown switches is a safe route and a guaranteed kickass keyboard to boot.

This would be a fantastic idea. I would be in for one or two myself.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: spolia optima on Thu, 10 February 2011, 07:01:51: This would probably be a good time to mention that I have neither the time nor the organizational skills to manage such a project... I have no idea how to order a manufacturing run from overseas, trust me, I'm not the guy you want in charge! :( i was just spitballin' ideas.

But I'm glad you guys like it! I'm flattered *blushes*

I would be glad to take on a role in the process, though. I can do some things.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: bakageta on Thu, 10 February 2011, 07:06:38: Quote from: spolia optima;292532
I like where this thread is going, and I'd like to add my .2

How about a bunch of us get together and throw down on a custom Cherry build?
Say, a G80-3000 or G80-1800?

I'm sure a lot of us would agree on:
-Brown switches
-NKRO (will add a few $ per board but worth it)
-Beige / white color (leaves room for custom RIT jobs)
-Standard lasered PBT caps (again, ripe for the RIT dye)
-Orange WASD / ESC keys
-Classy, modern geekhack logo lasered on upper left or right

I don't think we need to go all-out on a "first" geekhack board. Besides, the miniguru is still on the table. No need to steal it's thunder.
A nice ANSI G80-3000 with NKRO and brown switches is a safe route and a guaranteed kickass keyboard to boot.
I'd easily be in for one, possibly more depending on price. I'd prefer blank PBT keys, but the standard lasered ones would be acceptable. If you do a colored esc/wasd, leave them as extra keys for sure.

(edit)
Actually, would only be in for an ANSI-ish layout, the ISO enter key drives me crazy so that's a dealbreaker... Don't know how many people feel one way or another about it though.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 10 February 2011, 07:07:46: I would do it, but I can't get anything out of Cherry in the US, at least in my area. It would probably have to be someone in a different part of the US or overseas. Maybe Bruce with the Keyboard Co. could help and offer it on their site.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: sixty on Thu, 10 February 2011, 07:11:21: I sent a request for a custom board to Cherry a year or two ago, here are a few infos:

* Color keycaps are no longer being produced. White PBT, Black POM. Nothing else. No double shots, no color keys, no LED window keys.
* MOQ for a board with customization for anything besides the usual switch variants (black, blue, clear) and a different logo is 300 keyboards.
* You need to order from a registered business address

This data is from Cherry Germany and MOQ might vary outside of Europe.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: spolia optima on Thu, 10 February 2011, 07:24:24: Suprised so many GH members are on this early- ha ha i take it most of you guys aren't on the Pacific coast!

If brown isn't available as a "usual switch", I would definitely opt for clears or blacks.
Since the switches will be PCB mounted, it would also make for a great addition to the GH spring group buy... High modifiability for those with sub-par soldering skills.

GH spring + clears would give us somewhat of a "new" switch, given the larger tactile bump of the clear switches. That would be totally tits, guys.

edit: so how does this work... is there like an insured escrow kinda bank account we all would deposit our share of the money into, or what?
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: sixty on Thu, 10 February 2011, 07:34:40: Should probably first contact Cherry again and find out actual costs and required order amounts. I can call them later today if I have the time.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: spolia optima on Thu, 10 February 2011, 07:48:54: Good idea. Don't want to go counting chickens before they've hatched.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Fiasco on Thu, 10 February 2011, 08:44:07: Quote from: sixty;292793
Should probably first contact Cherry again and find out actual costs and required order amounts. I can call them later today if I have the time.

How about this one to be geekhack brand keyboard?

I think it is possible to engrave the "geekhack" in the side of spacebar.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Senor_Cartmenez on Thu, 10 February 2011, 09:28:44: meh

I'd only be interested in a board with reds :)
don't u guys think that would be more desireable anyhow since reds are so rare to come by?
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: tjweir on Thu, 10 February 2011, 09:44:03: I'm interested for sure.

I'd like reds or blacks as an option, if it's possible.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Bern on Thu, 10 February 2011, 09:49:02: I would be interested too depending on price.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: tarc on Thu, 10 February 2011, 10:23:31: Quote from: ripster;292425
Arrow keys are easy on this layout.

The Divine People already have it. The question is whether the HHKB3 will in ANSI, not JIS.
Show Image
(http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/lineup/images/thumb_pdkb420w_l.jpg)

Yes, it's a nice compact Layout with arrows, (the spacebar is small though). A bit in the spirit of the project linked in the first post.

Fkeys might be nice also..

Tarc
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: gilgam on Thu, 10 February 2011, 10:25:22: Me too whatever a, reasonable, price.

I think it's important for those who ignore it that the price will be higher than 150 dollars.

Isn't it ?

About the mx
is it possible to get the choice ?

For the layout that one is truly fantastic.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: sadbox on Thu, 10 February 2011, 11:09:17: I don't understand the obsession everyone has with reds. Is it just because they're so rare? Then again I'm obsessed with blues.....
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: killy on Thu, 10 February 2011, 11:21:43: Is there any point to this? Most layouts are now available for reasonable prices. Quality is no guarantee, as it is set by the company you order from.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Eclairz on Thu, 10 February 2011, 11:36:40: Quote from: tarc;292839
Yes, it's a nice compact Layout with arrows, (the spacebar is small though). A bit in the spirit of the project linked in the first post.

Fkeys might be nice also..

Tarc

Well that layout includes the Japanese keys which can be removed to make a larger spacebar.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: digitalleftovers on Thu, 10 February 2011, 11:54:17: I want to know who manufactured the miniguru/poker boards. Cherry is probably the most efficient way to go, but if those mini boards were available at a competative price, I would want to know more about that option.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: digitalleftovers on Thu, 10 February 2011, 11:58:55: Quote from: killy;292869
Is there any point to this? Most layouts are now available for reasonable prices. Quality is no guarantee, as it is set by the company you order from.

LOL. Don't forget, you're talking to people who own titanium spacebars!
(http://pic.kbc-china.com/image/jm/m2.jpg)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Reaif on Thu, 10 February 2011, 11:59:56: I guess once pricing is figured out, we ought to figure out what switch we are going to be ordering. I figure that there will be quite a few people who won't get exactly what they want, but there should be one switch that a lot of people can still enjoy. Perhaps we ought to get a poll running with first and second choice for a switch type, then pick the one that most people would be fine with typing on.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 10 February 2011, 12:08:52: Quote from: digitalleftovers;292891
I want to know who manufactured the miniguru/poker boards. Cherry is probably the most efficient way to go, but if those mini boards were available at a competative price, I would want to know more about that option.

Member lowpoly manufactured the Miniguru.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: guilleguillaume on Thu, 10 February 2011, 12:13:33: I'm not a big fan of Full-Size keyboards anymore so If the idea it's to go with a Full-Size keyboard I must not agree at all.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: pitashen on Thu, 10 February 2011, 12:32:43: Quote from: keyboardlover;292217
Update: I created a Poll to gauge interest: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=15167 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=15167)
mm
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Shazb0t on Thu, 10 February 2011, 12:36:58: Tenkeyless Cherry Red. Pleaseee?
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Reaif on Thu, 10 February 2011, 12:55:49: Quote from: ripster;292895

#1 result for "cherry corp us sales manager" though. I bet his wife likes that.

Only because of your post lol.

Interestingly enough, when you search for "cherry corp us sales manager", 5 of the top 6 results are from geekhack.org.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Ekaros on Thu, 10 February 2011, 13:27:11: Something else than \KL's Tenkeyless Clone with non-(brown/blue/black)...

I would personaly go for something more special, namely compact layout, still with some rarer switches like reds or clears.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 10 February 2011, 13:41:42: I really hope you didn't just refer to me as "MW"...
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Ekaros on Thu, 10 February 2011, 13:47:09: Quote from: keyboardlover;292944
I really hope you didn't just refer to me as "MW"...

Sorry mate... Will fix it now...
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: .XL on Thu, 10 February 2011, 13:59:08: Put me down for one, too. Compact layout with Browns/Clears would be perfect.

Is it really cheaper to get the keyboard custom from Germany? I know Chinese factories take custom orders (my dad does it all the time, but not with keyboards) if you're willing to order enough. If you could get some 200 people from here to put an order through I'm sure a chinese manufacturer would be willing.

Maybe something like the Choc Mini that would work on Mac with Home/End keys? In white? That seems to be what most people want.

I think a nice GEEKHACK on the space bar where the Noppoo logo is on the Choc would be sick.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: digitalleftovers on Thu, 10 February 2011, 16:03:34: compact + arrow keys + clears + a gh logo = WIN
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 10 February 2011, 16:26:49: Asians do group buy the best, basically just dictatorship wins, too much democracy and nothing happens as is the case with 90% of everything here, except for the recent dolch signature keycaps (done by an asian, I assume being named whiterice). If geekhack is to succeed in doing another successful groupbuy, have it organized by an emperor like asian, choices=fail.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: .XL on Thu, 10 February 2011, 17:19:39: Quote from: Lanx;293043
Asians do group buy the best, basically just dictatorship wins, too much democracy and nothing happens as is the case with 90% of everything here, except for the recent dolch signature keycaps (done by an asian, I assume being named whiterice). If geekhack is to succeed in doing another successful groupbuy, have it organized by an emperor like asian, choices=fail.

Or, someone who is a respected member of this forum and understands the general desires expressed in this thread, could narrow it down to three options. Something like...

1) Tenkeyless with brown switches, GEEKHACK logo on top right
2) Tenkeyless with clears, GEEKHACK logo on spacebar
3) 104 with reds, GEEKHACK logo on front (like the FILCO logo)

(All ANSI)

And then the community can vote from there. That way the choices are narrowed down to a small selection, and everyone will be satisfied.

My thinking is everyone puts a $25 down payment to vote, making the possibility of the people who chose the second-place selection not buying the first selection a non-issue. This way, if there are extra boards (say 200 needed for an order, only 150 ordered) the $25 buy in can help lower the cost of the extra boards if the people who put the money down in the first place don't just spring the extra cash for get a GEEKHACK board.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Ekaros on Thu, 10 February 2011, 17:30:45: Quote from: .XL;293072
Or, someone who is a respected member of this forum and understands the general desires expressed in this thread, could narrow it down to three options. Something like...

1) Tenkeyless with brown switches, GEEKHACK logo on top right
2) Tenkeyless with clears, GEEKHACK logo on spacebar
3) 104 with reds, GEEKHACK logo on front (like the FILCO logo)

(All ANSI)

And then the community can vote from there. That way the choices are narrowed down to a small selection, and everyone will be satisfied.

My thinking is everyone puts a $25 down payment to vote, making the possibility of the people who chose the second-place selection not buying the first selection a non-issue. This way, if there are extra boards (say 200 needed for an order, only 150 ordered) the $25 buy in can help lower the cost of the extra boards if the people who put the money down in the first place don't just spring the extra cash for get a GEEKHACK board.

I would prefer some options which aren't available from other makers. I think it's bit pointless to make just rebrand, more of unique product could be ideal and I also would prefer compromise between Ansi and iso meaning the including of extra key somewhere in prosess...

Or maybe gather list of possible option in poll and let people choose from there and make compromise option then get people in for it...
MX Clear
MX Red
MX Blue
Tenkeyless
Mini 1
Mini 2
Mini 3
White
Black
Otaku
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: .XL on Thu, 10 February 2011, 17:36:51: Quote from: Ekaros;293079
I would prefer some options which aren't available from other makers. I think it's bit pointless to make just rebrand, more of unique product could be ideal and I also would prefer compromise between Ansi and iso meaning the including of extra key somewhere in prosess...

I was just providing that as an example. But we're going with ANSI. Because America is the whole world.

I don't know how key remapping works, but if the manufacturer can provide us with both enter keys that would be great! However, if we had to settle on one, would be you okay with ANSI? It seems to me most users here are American, but I'm not sure.

I understand what you mean about the rebrand thing. Maybe a tenkeyless red or clear keyboard would be more desirable. I haven't used either personally, but from what I've read here most people seem to prefer clears.

Is there any way we could do this with Topre boards? If the price would be some 175 each, would people spring for them? I know I would, but it seems like Topre's aren't as popular, and may be much more expensive to produce than I think.

__________________________________________________

EDIT: Just saw your addition. I like that idea much better.

We could vote first on board size, then switch type, then font type. How does that sound?

That way it'd be 3 or more polls, and in the end we'd have a big compromise between all of us. It's the most democratic way.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 10 February 2011, 17:41:38: Quote from: Lanx
Asians do group buy the best

Racist!!

(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldg8o1zTcT1qakgigo1_500.jpg)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: WhiteRice on Thu, 10 February 2011, 18:15:33: oh herro
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: sixty on Thu, 10 February 2011, 18:26:13: Everything I predicted in the very first post, explaining why I do not believe in this to happen has happened within the last 4 pages. People never change :redface:

Btw, news from Cherry:

MX Red Boards - No publishing rights outside of Asia - 500 MOQ in Korea and Taiwan, 1000 in Japan
Other MX Boards such as brown: 500 MOQ
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: .XL on Thu, 10 February 2011, 18:32:57: Quote from: sixty;293110
Everything I predicted in the very first post, explaining why I do not believe in this to happen has happened within the last 4 pages. People never change :redface:

Btw, news from Cherry:

MX Red Boards - No publishing rights outside of Asia - 500 MOQ in Korea and Taiwan, 1000 in Japan
Other MX Boards such as brown: 500 MOQ

Wow, so much more than I thought...can we muster up 500 people?? Or is anyone willing to go to other forums to recruit??
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Ekaros on Thu, 10 February 2011, 18:37:34: Quote from: .XL;293111
Wow, so much more than I thought...can we muster up 500 people?? Or is anyone willing to go to other forums to recruit??

Try getting order from some retailers?

500 isn't too large run either, but for us it is...

Also my ANSI-enter works, as long as there is place on board for that one extra key. Might mean smaller shift-key depends realy on layout.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Reaif on Thu, 10 February 2011, 19:24:32: Unless everyone here wants two, I doubt we will get Cherry to make them with that kind of requirement. Unless there are a lot more people who visit this forum than I thought.

In any case, I would recommend that anyone who has a connection with some sort of manufacturer or whatever start making some phone calls. I agree that someone needs to jump in and take charge. I don't mind making decisions, though I don't really have a lot of cred on this forum yet, and I am not in touch with anyone capable of taking on an order like what we need.

As far as deciding on a layout, the best idea put forth so far, I think, is to go with something that isn't already available. So I will go ahead and list a few factors which are fairly unique, which probably ought to go in.

1. Small form factor
2. Keycaps printed with both ansi and iso, different colors for distinction of course.
3. An uncommon switch. The most popular seem to be:
_ a. Cherry red
_ b. Cherry clear
4. Color scheme(the least important thing in my opinion, but still something that has to be decided) This probably ought to be something uncommon as well.
_ a. White
_ b. Something like Otaku.
_ c. Something custom.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: killy on Thu, 10 February 2011, 19:45:56: So why is everyone fixated on Cherry clears? The huge tactile bump with no auditory feedback is starting to sound more and more like a rubber dome to me. I guess it's because in Brown / Clears, the bump happens later compared to immediately with a dome?
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Lpb45 on Thu, 10 February 2011, 20:11:03: Has anyone looked into the logistics of moving the keyboards to the US? I work for a logistics company and we have offices all over east asia (25+ in China). I can look into pricing for moving the shipment to the US even including clearing them aswell directly from the manufacturer's door. If you have any questions or are just looking for a quote shoot me a pm. I can help aswell with speaking to the manufacturer overseas, it's pretty much what I do all day at work.

I really would love to get one of these boards to, something small form factor I hope. Kinda want something smaller then my Filco 104 and love the look the the choc mini and hhkb, not to mention this looks to be something very unique and 1 of a kind.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: .XL on Thu, 10 February 2011, 20:25:09: Quote from: Lpb45;293157
Has anyone looked into the logistics of moving the keyboards to the US? I work for a logistics company and we have offices all over east asia (25+ in China). I can look into pricing for moving the shipment to the US even including clearing them aswell directly from the manufacturer's door. If you have any questions or are just looking for a quote shoot me a pm. I can help aswell with speaking to the manufacturer overseas, it's pretty much what I do all day at work.

I really would love to get one of these boards to, something small form factor I hope. Kinda want something smaller then my Filco 104 and love the look the the choc mini and hhkb, not to mention this looks to be something very unique and 1 of a kind.

I think the only way we can really do this is through regular airmail, which will be expensive. If we work with a 3PL on a one-time deal it will save shipping/customs but if they charge us a great deal we could end up being worse off for it.

I guess most people that I've seen want Clears/Reds, but most mods people do are ghetto reds. Maybe the red switch? Anyway, we could just hold a poll and see which one people would like better.

The biggest issue lies in the logistics...not just the how, but the cost. Getting a GEEKHACK branded keyboard is great, but not so great when you have to pay an exorbitant amount.

We might just end up being better off ordering a run of white Filcos and getting them customized post-production.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Lpb45 on Thu, 10 February 2011, 20:41:19: Quote from: .XL;293158
I think the only way we can really do this is through regular airmail, which will be expensive. If we work with a 3PL on a one-time deal it will save shipping/customs but if they charge us a great deal we could end up being worse off for it.

I guess most people that I've seen want Clears/Reds, but most mods people do are ghetto reds. Maybe the red switch? Anyway, we could just hold a poll and see which one people would like better.

The biggest issue lies in the logistics...not just the how, but the cost. Getting a GEEKHACK branded keyboard is great, but not so great when you have to pay an exorbitant amount.

We might just end up being better off ordering a run of white Filcos and getting them customized post-production.

This is exactly why I posted, I can do this at cost. I would be the 3PL and can really really drive the rate down if everyone is patient enough to wait for it to move by ocean which is around 30 days transit not counting pickup and loading, if you guys are even thinking of moving it by AIR the price will be through the roof for something of the dimensions this order would have. Exports out of East Asia right now are at a premium, the last shipment I did from Seoul was around 5 dollars a kilogram and thats just for non guaranteed normal service. Just for funzies we should estimate an order of 250 and try and gather some dimensions of what the freight may look like and I can atleast quote it to see what the cost may be around. No harm in it, it's not gonna cost anyone anything for me to quote it and see if it may be cheaper.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: .XL on Thu, 10 February 2011, 21:04:48: Quote from: Lpb45;293162
This is exactly why I posted, I can do this at cost. I would be the 3PL and can really really drive the rate down if everyone is patient enough to wait for it to move by ocean which is around 30 days transit not counting pickup and loading, if you guys are even thinking of moving it by AIR the price will be through the roof for something of the dimensions this order would have. Exports out of East Asia right now are at a premium, the last shipment I did from Seoul was around 5 dollars a kilogram and thats just for non guaranteed normal service. Just for funzies we should estimate an order of 250 and try and gather some dimensions of what the freight may look like and I can atleast quote it to see what the cost may be around. No harm in it, it's not gonna cost anyone anything for me to quote it and see if it may be cheaper.

If you're planning on freight consolidation then we won't have to pay by weight if they fit in the container...those things take 40,000lbs. And yeah, air would be way too expensive. By ship would be the best.

Oh, and put in a good word for me over there in Asia. I'm an International Business and Supply Chain Management major looking for a job in Korea/China/Taiwan :)
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Lpb45 on Thu, 10 February 2011, 21:45:32: Quote from: .XL;293180
If you're planning on freight consolidation then we won't have to pay by weight if they fit in the container...those things take 40,000lbs. And yeah, air would be way too expensive. By ship would be the best.

Oh, and put in a good word for me over there in Asia. I'm an International Business and Supply Chain Management major looking for a job in Korea/China/Taiwan :)

You don't need to book a whole container to move something by ocean, you pay by the cubic meter if its LCL. Well like I said I would love to help and get a nice unique mech board but I think I am gonna stop wasting my time from the responses.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 10 February 2011, 22:07:46: Quote from: Pylon;292479
Just later on, but why not have a CNC milled aluminum case with say, white keycaps? And integrate the plate with the top half of the case.

I looked into this. The problem with cnc is that it can't really do square corners anyway. It can do sort of square with the corners knocked out, but it's not efficient and is still costly. Even if I were to do the operation myself at a do it yourself place it would still most likely be around $100 per sheet. It's not really a solution.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 10 February 2011, 22:11:33: Quote from: laden3;292489
I was thinking about using the top case as the plate to hold the switches as well, and it doesn't have to be a metal plate. If I am not mistaken, a Korean guy made a keyboard like this with an acrylic case.

As for alps switches, it is almost impossible to find new ones unless you order them from some Taiwanese company who are still making them. I think a top case for Cherry switches is more practical for now.

I understand that the results of using plate mounted switches without a metal plate is not satisfying.

The problem with acrylic is the thickness, and again it produces a different feel. It's also I think extremely loud. There's one on youtube like this as well and in the mod section. You still need some sort of machinery that will cut it and do so precisely and quickly. I don't think it's a very good solution either.

Most enthusiasts have alps boards, and you can pick up used white alps complicated boards off ebay for less than $50. There's a focus and a blue alps leading edge on ebay right now for $40 that you can harvest switches from if you want. I for one prefer alps complicated and blues over cherry by quite a lot. This is an enthusiast board we're talking about, not a standard production run as far as I'm concerned. This is the thing that will make it unique and have worth and be different from other products out there. It's also possible to offer a harvesting service combined with this board if people get scared by desoldering which I know some are. There are already boards out there that do most of what others are talking about, or can be easily modified by anyone who has spent any time on this forum. I think this keyboards that just have a geekhack key or geekhack brand put on them and are standard runs are missing the point.

I think the point of a geekhack board should be in it's ability to be customized by the buyer and do exactly what the customer wants, be it key layout or switch type.

Most of the people are here on this forum imo because they're looking for something that is extremely rare in the marketplace or doesn't exist. I know that's how I found it and why I'm here. I think a geekhack board should be the thing that fulfills that craving.

I suppose for most people it's a tenkeyless red cherry board? But there are already Filcos like that.

For me it's a hhkb/lowpoly type super mini that actually has usable function/numpad layer programming, large backspace, non iso enter, clicky keys, and doesn't cost $200-300. That's likely never to exist unless we make it.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: laden3 on Thu, 10 February 2011, 22:51:28: Is it possible to produce a case with squares holes using the cold cast method? It doesn't need to be specifically acrylic.

LOL ligo is reading... he makes keyboard. period.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: manfaux on Fri, 11 February 2011, 01:05:30: Can you imagine the GH keyboard full of double shot Geekhack keys? ALL 104 OF THEM.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Reaif on Fri, 11 February 2011, 02:21:50: I can't remember who said it, but it looks like they were right about there being too much diversity in opinion, and I agree with whoever he is that this isn't going to happen at this rate.

Might as well just buy an arduino, program that as a controller board and just make the keyboard yourself.

If you want a choc mini with red switches, might as well buy the choc, buy the switches, and solder them in yourself lol.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 11 February 2011, 03:06:59: Quote from: Reaif;293268
I can't remember who said it, but it looks like they were right about there being too much diversity in opinion, and I agree with whoever he is that this isn't going to happen at this rate.

Might as well just buy an arduino, program that as a controller board and just make the keyboard yourself.

If you want a choc mini with red switches, might as well buy the choc, buy the switches, and solder them in yourself lol.

The main problem with doing that though is that all the parts are spread out all over the place, in different countries, you have to deal with low order quantities and availability. It would be a lot easier if you could just buy a kit from a single person that already has everything you need. They could even bundle soldering/desoldering supplies. That's half the value of someone on this board taking up the mantle of a geekhack keyboard imo.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 11 February 2011, 04:07:54: Quote from: laden3;293209
Is it possible to produce a case with squares holes using the cold cast method? It doesn't need to be specifically acrylic.

LOL ligo is reading... he makes keyboard. period.

I hadn't thought seriously about this before.... I suppose it could be possible, and use an existing plate as a model... It of course wouldn't be as durable as metal, but it would act to support switches while soldering and to make sure they're stable and in line which is the main reason for a plate....

I've cold cast thin sheets of resin before for modeling purposes. It takes some knowhow, but definitely possible.... It would probably actually be easier than a full on flat sheet since the holes will act as support for the silicone mold. That could really be the solution...

I need to modify or somehow make use of my scorpius to try to do a mockup of it to make a mold from.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: sixty on Fri, 11 February 2011, 05:36:08: Also, just for information purpose:

The "Korean Acrylic Method" does not carve or cut a simple "box" out of acrylic. Instead, several layers are bolted together.

Example:

(http://i.imgur.com/CGjZm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8ofsO.jpg)

7 layers here.

Result is very stable. I dare saying its more stable than most plastic cast cases.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 11 February 2011, 06:00:51: Interesting, but how does the switch mount into it if nothing is cut then?
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: sixty on Fri, 11 February 2011, 06:16:46: Basically there are three different layers required. The top plate, which covers the thing. A bottom plate (possibly with some carvings so the pcb can rest) and then the identical 5 plates between that simply give stability. The PCB and the backing plate (also laser cut out of aluminium or acyrlic too) are designed accordingly, so for example they will also be stabilized with the bolts through the case where possible.

Few more acyril ones:

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105666106_fc180924_1.jpg)
(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/album/2105666106_f3abbcc9_3.jpg)

(http://www.otd.kr/data/file/Aquacompany/2784373876_20240483_M_a87.jpg)
You get the idea.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: gilgam on Fri, 11 February 2011, 07:05:34: I vote for that one
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: lootbag on Fri, 11 February 2011, 07:09:10: Same here.
I use the laser cutter at university to cut acrylic for architectural models all the time.
Good material but smells so bad when it is cut though.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 11 February 2011, 07:30:26: I demand beam springs.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Ekaros on Fri, 11 February 2011, 07:43:18: Hmm, so top layer could be metal? ;D I think that's quite cool...
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 11 February 2011, 07:47:15: Quote from: laden3;293209
Is it possible to produce a case with squares holes using the cold cast method? It doesn't need to be specifically acrylic.
Do you mean casting a case in a thermosetting plastic (usually called "resin") such as polyurethane, polyester or epoxy?
That could be quite labour-intensive, and that labour could get quite expensive.

Resin is more brittle than acrylic, unless reinforced with fibreglass (or carbon fibre) but laying that in the mold would be even more labour-intensive, and I think it would be difficult on such a relatively small scale. On the other hand, when the "plate" does not have to be flat, then you could fill the space in-between the switches.
There is also the problem of getting enough precision. You need a very good caster to do it right, or there could all sorts of problems with shrinking, warping, bubbles, etc.

I have been considering building a home-made keyboard in 'urethane, but that is mostly because I wanted to make my "master" from different materials glued together, and that would hold up even worse.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: Ekaros on Fri, 11 February 2011, 08:08:07: Quote from: ch_123;293325
I demand beam springs.

Hall-effect FTW. Or some own switch type which last to our grand-children ;D
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 11 February 2011, 08:49:59: Quote from: Findecanor;293333
Do you mean casting a case in a thermosetting plastic (usually called "resin") such as polyurethane, polyester or epoxy?
That could be quite labour-intensive, and that labour could get quite expensive.

Resin is more brittle than acrylic, unless reinforced with fibreglass (or carbon fibre) but laying that in the mold would be even more labour-intensive, and I think it would be difficult on such a relatively small scale. On the other hand, when the "plate" does not have to be flat, then you could fill the space in-between the switches.
There is also the problem of getting enough precision. You need a very good caster to do it right, or there could all sorts of problems with shrinking, warping, bubbles, etc.

I have been considering building a home-made keyboard in 'urethane, but that is mostly because I wanted to make my "master" from different materials glued together, and that would hold up even worse.

I'm a very good caster and have cast stuff that requires much more precision that this will. I was a caster and sculptor for 20 years. Only low quality resin has the quality you are talking about. A good quality resin will bend quite a lot before it it cracks, yet is still quite strong. It's as good as injection plastic in most cases if not better. There are dozens if not thousands of formulations of epoxy and polyurethane resins, and each one has different tensile strength, hardness, and overall properties. It took me a long time and a lot of experimenting to find a really good one.

I have developed methods and techniques, and have tools so there are 0 bubbles in my resin. My estimate is that the average case produced in this method would cost me no more than $20-30 in materials and less than an hour of time once the mold is made. It's definitively a possibility to gauge interest, at least to produce enough to get a production run started, and possibility get some real backing for a full production run. I can do this all in my basement where I have a shop set up for doing that sort of work. There are still some unknowns with using my method for this, but I think that right now has the best chance of producing what we need for a reasonable cost.

The acrylic thing would still require sending out to someone with a laser cut service, which I suppose I need to price. In which case if you have access to a laser cutter, I would think you might as well use a metal plate again. Anyone call or talk to a laser cutter and see what a 10 inch by 5 inch plate full of 60 or so square holes would cost? A lot of people seem to have more experience with it than I do.
Title: geekhack brand keyboard?
Post by: eMps on Fri, 11 February 2011, 11:00:34: Mini form factor, detachable USB, non-staggered/grid/matrix/whatever-you-want-to-call-it layout.. pretty please? :)