geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: bettablue on Wed, 09 February 2011, 22:24:44
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I like the IBM KB-8923. For being a rubber dome. it really is a good keyboard. The rubber dome construction is far better than any of the rubber domes you see on new keyboards. I find that this keyboard is very quiet compared to the model M, but not squishy like most rubber dome keyboards I have used. The keys are a single one piece design and although it is a rubber dome, the board has pretty good tactile response. The case is built well too. On the 8923 I own, there are no artifacts remaining from the casting process and all of the parts fit well. There is very little side to side play in the keys too. Key travel is smooth , with no binding or sticking. Mine has the standard 5 ft cable ending in a PS2 connector. I have used it on a computer witout a PS2 by getting a cheap PS2 to USB adapter and it worked without a flaw. Too bad the cables are not detachable like the early model M's. In my opinion, that would make it a much better keyboard, and easier to install on some desks.
While searching for a model M I asked almost everyone in my office if they knew of one or knew where I might get one locally. We have a veery large geek factor at my job. So, one day, a co-worker came to work with a keyboard in a plastic bag. He came up to me almost yelling; "I GOT one!" Meaning, he thought he had brought in a model M "clicky". Upon quick examination, it turned out to be a very nicly kept KB-8923. It was a bit dirty from use, but it was all there; no missing keys, scratches or chips on the case, etc... As soon as I showed him the green rubber membrane underneath one of the keys, he agreed it wasn't a "clicky" and walked back to his desk, although a bit dejected. I ended up keeping the keyboard and bringing it home. I used it on my home built PC for a couple of months while I was searching for the model M. I am keepin it too, for those occasions when I need an additional keyboard for some reason.
The funny part of this is that I have seen posts on the web displaying an IBM KB-8923 with a caption like the following: "An Original IBM PS2 Keyboard KB-8923 (Yes, that's right the original bullet proof super tactile spring loaded keys, so you can type only one letter instead of three letters by accident.)
http://geeks.pirillo.com/forum/topics/what-keyboard-do-you-use
The really sad part is that nobody called him on it. I really wish I could have.
I cannot bring my own keyboard to work or I would certainly have my model M sitting on my desk, but if they did let allow our own keyboards, and the model M was too noisy, I wouldn't have a problem using the 8923.
Why are there so many of these keyboards around? Why do they last so long compared to other rubber membrane keyboards? Is the ugly green rubber membrane made of some special material that can withstand the hammering and pounding we subject our keyboards to on a daily basis? The rubber certainly is thicker than any of the membranes I have seen on other keyboards, but that can't be the whole story.
I can't answer these questions. All I know is that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the KB-8923 to anyone as a backup. (OMG! I'm starting to sound like an advertisement.)
What are your thoughts on this keyboard?
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I have the KB-8923. Its the only rubber dome that I like. It's missing some keys though :(
The A and J keys. I replaced them with end and page down
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I have several white 8923 units I robbed the trackpoints from for my Kinesis mods. They are totally worth using, even without the trackpoints (need to use a separate mouse instead). I have a black one that I used to use myself, that I may sell now for $50 since I probably will never type on it again. The rubber membrane is definitely thicker and has more resistance, but I don't know if that is the reason they feel better or seem to last longer.
They do not have a full PCB and the rubber domes are a big sheet, not individual.
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Why are there so many of these keyboards around? Why do they last so long compared to other rubber membrane keyboards? Is the ugly green rubber membrane made of some special material that can withstand the hammering and pounding we subject our keyboards to on a daily basis? The rubber certainly is thicker than any of the membranes I have seen on other keyboards, but that can't be the whole story.
The folks at Chicony obviously knew what they were doing and managed to keep a certain level of quality and reliability (the KB-5312 that I used to have felt pretty cheap but obviously outlasted quite a bit of use). Similar things can be said about NMB, who contributed the "good" Dell QuietKeys back in the day.
Sadly price pressure for rubber domes became too much some time after the turn of the century, so quality ones pretty much died out.
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The folks at Chicony obviously knew what they were doing and managed to keep a certain level of quality and reliability (the KB-5312 that I used to have felt pretty cheap but obviously outlasted quite a bit of use). Similar things can be said about NMB, who contributed the "good" Dell QuietKeys back in the day.
Sadly price pressure for rubber domes became too much some time after the turn of the century, so quality ones pretty much died out.
I agree, I've had the opportunity to use a couple Chiconys and many Dell QuietKeys and they are very nice for membrane keyboards. I cannot stand the newer Dell keyboards.
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The ink on the keys of this board is terrible though... I washed the board one time and all the ink washed away and the ink on the keys looks faded now. I washed the keys of my Cherry G80-1000 the same way and it lost nothing at all.
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whoops, I have the kb-7953, not the kb-8923
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whoops, I have the kb-7953, not the kb-8923
That's the rapid access (or II), isn't it? Still enjoys a pretty good reputation.
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This thread made me whip out my old KB-8926 and give it another spin. I just had to fix the spacebar. The KB-8926 and the Microsoft Internet Keyboard are probably the two rubberdome keyboards that have my utmost respect. They're not mushy or squishy at all.
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I have a KB-8923 right here in front of me. Typing on a Lexmark-Made IBM Model M. and have an older Model M sitting off to the side, so I can provide a pretty good comparison directly between the KB-8924 and the Model M.
The KB-8923 is a nice rubber dome keyboard. Its sturdy and well spaced. However, the difference between it and a Model M are day and night even though they look vaguely similar. Doesn't feel the same at all to type on.
I used the KB-8923 for a long time, though. It was my keyboard for years...but I couldn't go back to it after using a Model M. Key Height, Tactile Response, and (dear lord) weight are huge differences. The KB-8923 is a nice keyboard that doesn't sound like a machine gun and weighs less than a young child...so basically the exact opposite of a Model M in that regard. :-p
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Not all rubber domes are bad. I'ved used a Dell RT7D5JTW Quietkey and I found it to be one of the best rubber domes out there.
Right now though, I'm using an HP KB-9970 with Dell SK-8125 domes transplanted it. The SK-8125 has ridiculously tactile domes, but construction and keycaps are mediocre and stabilization is poor. KB-9970 has really good caps with low wobble and good stabilization, but the domes are mediocre. So I combined the two, and I get this super tactile rubber dome that's quite loud (almost as loud as BS at full speed), but feels great.
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My point exactly, there doesn't seem to be anything really all that different about the construction, but the keyboard stands out as a good model and is certainly useable. The longevity of the 8923's design also speaks volumes about it's quality at the time of production. I looked at the Chicony web site and saw nothing there to indicate anything really special there either. They seem to be just another run of the mill keyboard production plant making rubber dome and laptop keyboards. It's really sad to think how quality in keyboards has fallen so dramatically since the intrduction of mouse based navigation. The model M and KB-8923 are great examples of just how quickly these changes took place. Sure the 8923 will never be a mechanical keyboard, but then again, the similarity of the keyboard layout aside, it was never supposed to be. It is nevertheless a decent rubber dome keyboard.
Too bad too, that some people mistake this keyboard for the model M. I guess it has to do with the tactile feel of the keys and the fact that it does make more noise than most rubber domes made today.
I will never go back to using a rubber dome at home. However if I had no other option but to choose a rubber dome keyboard for work, I would certainly use a KB=8923 over almost all of the rubber dome boards made today.
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I have a KB-8923 right here in front of me. Typing on a Lexmark-Made IBM Model M. and have an older Model M sitting off to the side, so I can provide a pretty good comparison directly between the KB-8924 and the Model M.
The KB-8923 is a nice rubber dome keyboard. Its sturdy and well spaced. However, the difference between it and a Model M are day and night even though they look vaguely similar. Doesn't feel the same at all to type on.
I used the KB-8923 for a long time, though. It was my keyboard for years...but I couldn't go back to it after using a Model M. Key Height, Tactile Response, and (dear lord) weight are huge differences. The KB-8923 is a nice keyboard that doesn't sound like a machine gun and weighs less than a young child...so basically the exact opposite of a Model M in that regard. :-p
Again, I agree whole heartedly. My KB-8923 keyboard doesn't compare to the model M in any way, yet, because it did feel much better than the keyboard I was using at the time, (an illuminated thing I found oneline, a rare moment of keyboard indiscretion, and a complete wasts of money) I took it when it was offered to me and began to use it right away. If I hadn't gotten my model M, the 8923 would still be in daily use.
There is certainly nothing "special" about this model though. I do like the fact that it kept the standard layout of the moel M, albeit with the inclusion of the Windows keys.
I could write volumes on this model; just because of where it stands in the evolution of computer mmanufacturer supplied keyboards. The quality of the KB-8923 is still far better than rubber dome keyboards made today.
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Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I just found of these today for $3 at the goodwill store. xP Typing on it right now, and I have to agree with you guys, for a rubber dome keyboard it's one of the best I've tried. The only thing I don't like about it is the space-bar sound is really high pitched and noisy. Any way to stop that? Also I was wondering if anyone cleaned one of these by popping the keys off and putting it in the dishwasher. How long would it take to dry? Or would that not be a very good idea?
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I've tried the Compaq version of KB-3923 (supposedly similar) at the local library and it's quite decent. The feel is quite good and the keyboard is quite loud. But the best keyboards in the library are always going to be the large type Model M look-alike Keytronics, which are mad noisy but feel fantastic.
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Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I just found of these today for $3 at the goodwill store. xP Typing on it right now, and I have to agree with you guys, for a rubber dome keyboard it's one of the best I've tried. The only thing I don't like about it is the space-bar sound is really high pitched and noisy. Any way to stop that? Also I was wondering if anyone cleaned one of these by popping the keys off and putting it in the dishwasher. How long would it take to dry? Or would that not be a very good idea?
Go ahead and unscrew the keyboard. There is nothing that you will damage, it's extremely simple. Then you can take the whole top, keys attached and all to put in dishwasher.
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How long would it take to dry?
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Ok, when you take apart the keyboard, the top of the case will have the keys attached. Then you have the bottom, the steel backplate, and the rubber dome sheet, and mylar pcb and the controller pcb. You are only going to put the top that has the keycaps attached. It's all plastic. So if you get it wet, shake it off, and let it air dry, it depends on the temp and humidity in your house. A couple hours if you shake the excess water off and it gets air circulation. Sort of like dishes :)
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Personally, I wouldn't put any part in the dishwasher. Just use a little but of elbow grease and a mild soapy water mix. You would be surprised at just how easy it is to clean these things. My old 8923 is now living with a friend of mine who needed a new keyboard to replace his 18 month old Logisys backlighted. He couldn't believe the difference. I think eventually he'll pop the money and get a mechanical, but for now, the 8923 lives on.
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What scares me about putting keys in a dishwasher is the potentially wide variation in heat between different dishwashers depending on model and the settings. On higher heat settings some keys might just melt into useless junk. If you soak them in soapy water for a while, the grime loosens up pretty well. As you said with elbow grease, and perhaps some agitation of shaking them in a closed bottle with soapy water gets them pretty clean.
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In this particular case, I popped off all the keys and put them separately in a bowl with warm water and some bleach. I didn't know there were screws underneath the keys until I gave up trying to open it (I only found the 8 screws on the bottom, so it wouldn't open) and decided to just pop the keys off. Then, of course, I found the screws and was able to separate the top from the bottom.
I let the keys dry out overnight (and possibly longer, some keys have a little bit of water left in them), and that worked pretty well. The top casing I stuck in the dishwasher on a rinse cycle. That didn't work perfectly, so I then used some alcohol to clean up what was left over.
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Sounds like that was one dirty keyboard!
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Yeah, it was pretty bad. I guess that's what you get for paying only $3 at Goodwill. Luckily it's working great after I've cleaned it. It actually feels better and not as mushy. It's funny to see the rubber domes themselves when I took it apart.
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$3 is a smoking price. You did great, they basically gave it to you. We did a group buy and paid $20 each (shipping included). THAT was a good deal. They were filthy too. We bought them to remove the trackpoints for our mod projects. I feel bad because the boards are very decent, and I don't know what to do with them now.
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I might just go scouting at all the various thrift shops around, fairly often. I'm really hoping I'll happen to find a classic Model M, but even if I find something like this, then I could clean it up and sell it to some folks on these forums. :D
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Sorry for necro-posting but I just found a KB 8926. I've started cleaning it, but my main worry if whether it works or not. The cable has been cut for some reason, so i'm trying to find out where I can get a replacement, and just some info on the cable type. i've searched for a replacement or a name for this but I can't find it.
If anyone could tell me what the part number is, or what I should go about doing next, any helpful tips are appreciated. As I said, I'm not even sure if it will work at all (when I found it it was soaking wet), but I like the idea of recycling instead of throwing things away ;)
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Does the cable look like it is detachable and could have been sold separately?
In such keyboard I'd expect it to be attached permanently and not available as a separate unit. However, even if this is the case you can still replace it with any other PS/2 cable as long as you are willing to do some soldering.
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Hey mich, thanks for replying! It is indeed detachable. Here is a picture I just took of the board and cable.
(http://i.imgur.com/R6kS8.jpg)
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Had a 8923 but it went back into the closet and it was my previous board before switching to a blue switch and although it was a rubber dome it did have a good feel as to the typical mushy membrane only bad thing was the loud spacebar.
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I have this keyboard, the KB-hav8923, and love it. I have been trying with no luck to get it to work on my Dell Inspiron laptop. Any ideas or help would be appreciated, as my laptop keyboard has gone bonkers :p. I am a big BM keyboard fan, have a few dinosaurs. Thanks for your post.
Coleen
IBM FAN
GEEKHACK Rocks
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I have this keyboard, the KB-8923, and love it. I have been trying with no luck to get it to work on my Dell Inspiron laptop. Any ideas or help would be appreciated, as my laptop keyboard has gone bonkers :p. I am a big IBM keyboard fan, have a few dinosaurs. Thanks for your post.
Coleen
IBM FAN
GEEKHACK Rocks
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Thanks for the writeup. I will agree: IBM plate mounted rubber domes are actually quite nice.
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I have this keyboard, the KB-8923, and love it. I have been trying with no luck to get it to work on my Dell Inspiron laptop. Any ideas or help would be appreciated, as my laptop keyboard has gone bonkers :p.
So, if I understand you correctly, the keyboard works on other computers, but not on the laptop?
How far do you get with the keyboard when connected to the laptop? Do the lock lights flash once as they're supposed to?
Do other keyboards work on the laptop OK?
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I have never seen any computer NOT work with an IBM KB8923, or variant. As long as there is at least a PS2 connection with which to plug the keyboard into, it should work. Now there is another thing that may be an issue, and that is if the laptop only has USB connections. You may need to use one of those "Blue Boxes" in order to adapt the keyboard to the USB connection. I haven't seen any of those NOT work either. Give it a try. It can't hurt.
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I gave her the benefit of the doubt that she had at least succeeded in getting the plug into the laptop ;-) I could be wrong …
By the way, "blue box" is what the Doctor travels in; the unbranded, blue PS/2 to USB converter is colloquially referred to as a "blue cube".
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Thank you... I stand corrected. Blue Cube is what I meant.
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Personally; out of all of the rubber dome keyboards out there, the KB-8923 has got to be one of my favorites. Still though, my all time favs are the Model M's. I currently own 2 Model M, an IBM AT, keyboard that came with my IBM 5150 PC, and my other IBM 5160. I use my Model M with my current home built Windows PC, and a tweener, which is an older PC that allows us to move programs and data between my vintage 8088 and newer PC.
So far, I have also found that the Apple IIe, and Mad SE also have mechanical keyboards as well. Not that it matters;, but don't know exactly how many of my vintage computer collection has mechanical keyboards. If anyone is "in-the-know", and is willing to take a look at the list of vintage computers, and can tell me for sure, which computers/systems use mechanical boards, I would love to hear from you.
Thanks in advance.
~BB~
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Why not just post a topic about it and those "in-the-know" can tell you :)
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Good question. Just me being an idiot again.