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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Pylon on Tue, 22 February 2011, 12:52:36

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 22 February 2011, 12:52:36

The other day at school, I noticed the advantages of the nav layout of the numpad (when numlock is off) - Home, End, Page Up, and Page Down were conveniently located next to the arrow keys, unlike in the dedicated nav cluster, where they were farther away. However, the lack of an inverted T layout was annoying, as it meant that my middle finger had to move extra to press the down arrow.

So I thought about this a little while, and I came up with the following as a better nav cluster:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15580&stc=1&d=1298400693)

A lot of laptops place Page Up and Page Down near the arrow keys, and some people markedly prefer this layout. So I basically moved the 2x3 nav block down right next to the arrow keys to make them more accessible. That means that you have easy access to Home/End and Page Up/Page Down when using the arrow keys. I placed Delete above the up arrow and gave it a step to prevent accidental presses when using the arrow keys. And the hated Insert key was removed (you could probably relocate it to a different part of the keyboard).

This arrangement also gets you a bit more space, on the board, so you can fit in three more keys where the 2x3 block used to be. Perhaps volume controls?

Any thoughts?

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: symphonic1985 on Tue, 22 February 2011, 13:00:39

I like it. I'm still thinking of how I will arrange the arrow keys for my 180-flip-thumbs-on-f-keys mod. I wouldn't want to lose any of those 9 nav keys but it's true that insert is a little pointless for most of us. Volume controls are a must for me now too, ever since I got used to using a Logitech Illuminated.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 22 February 2011, 13:02:21

I'm not a huge fan of "alternative" layouts, but this looks like a pretty good idea.  I typically use the arrow keys in conjunction with Page Nav keys (Shift+End+Down in Excel, for example), and sometimes that's quite a jump on a regular layout (even worse on the G80-1800, which is the main reason I ended up not liking it).  The HHKB makes this easy, too.

EDIT:  Getting rid of/moving Insert is a great idea, too.  It's pretty worthless, IMO.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 22 February 2011, 13:30:53

I use insert all the time writing code in a non-looping way =P But mashing the navcluster is either to merge it with the numpad and then there are plenty of keys to keep insert. Or there is a lot of space cleared for more keys in the nav cluster. So either way there will be room. I like the idea in the merge-with-numpad way.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: kill will on Tue, 22 February 2011, 14:26:35

i prefer the og one ... i like home and end above the up arrow to denote up and down home and end lol

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: laden3 on Tue, 22 February 2011, 14:38:28

A stepped delete is hard to make...

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: DanGWanG on Tue, 22 February 2011, 14:41:05

I like this, a lot actually.

Quote from: itlnstln;299406

Getting rid of/moving Insert is a great idea, too.  It's pretty worthless, IMO.

I always accidentally press it while typing or reviewing a paper.  Then all of a sudden, as I'm spacing along, everything gets deleted!  Thank god for CTRL+Z.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: Reaif on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:03:45

I like the removal of the Insert key, though I am never a fan of lost functionality lol. I think that it would be pretty awesome to make Insert an alternate function of the Delete key, so that you can use it if you REALLY want to.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:04:40

I used to use a terminal emulator that used Shift+Insert for Paste.  Other than that, it's been since the DOS days (or earlier) since I have used the Insert key regularly.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: digitalleftovers on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:11:02

The only issue that I raise with this, is what to do with the space it would leave behind? This config would leave a 2x3 white space.  Do you have any suggestions for what should be done with it?  I'm not opposed to leaving a 1x3 space above and below the cluster, or pushing it to the bottom and leaving the spacing between Psc/ScrLk/Break and the cluster.  

Just something to think about.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: bugfix on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:16:17

Quote from: ripster;299472

This is logical if you are a Happy Hacking Caucasian.

You're from Russia?

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:18:20

Quote from: ripster;299472

This is best.

Simple.

Logical.

Show Image

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5282/5304278286_5b20577b51_z.jpg)

That's terrible on so many levels.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:23:55

I don't like nav keys that are commonly used together as layers of the same key.  Even the HHKB doesn't do that.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:29:06

I am not so sure about the proposed layout. It will not be as easy to find the arrow keys by touch as before. The space in-between the keys provides a guide for the fingers.

Quote from: symphonic1985;299403

I like it. I'm still thinking of how I will arrange the arrow keys for my 180-flip-thumbs-on-f-keys mod.

I have been thinking about a minimalistic ergo layout with thumb keys ... I am leaning towards using Fn-key (left thumb) + IJKL as arrow keys, with Home/End/PgUp/PgDn around them as on a numpad. The "home row" for a nav cluster is where Left-Down-Right is, so it is natural that if the alphabetic keyboard would be overloaded with arrows, those keys would go onto the alphabetic home row.
This has also a lot to do with me having come accustomed to the numpad on my G80-1800s.

But I am not entirely content with that. I have also been thinking of having arrow keys where the Right Shift key is and letting the other nav keys be combinations of Fn-arrow, but they I would have to move the

In either case, I think that Insert belongs on Fn-Delete ... :-P

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: theferenc on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:30:56

If you like the inverted T and you like the numpad layout, why not just map down to the 5 key?

Or remap 4/1, 8/5, 6/3 to get almost the layout you have in the OP.

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 22 February 2011, 15:58:52

So where's your review of that board?

Title: A better nav cluster
Post by: Soarer on Tue, 22 February 2011, 18:23:26

Quote from: theferenc;299486

If you like the inverted T and you like the numpad layout, why not just map down to the 5 key?

This. Simple, works great, and when you forget that you're on someone elses keyboard, no harm ensues since 5 just does nothing without the remapping.

Otherwise, this 2x4 layout is really nice to use (but doesn't include del)...

Code: [Select]

Home    Up     End    PgUp
Left   Down   Right   PgDn

... and is definately what I'd choose if mapping a second fn layer onto IJKL etc. (or perhaps with pgup/pgdn on Y/H?)