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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: QQcumber on Tue, 01 March 2011, 06:36:40

Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: QQcumber on Tue, 01 March 2011, 06:36:40
Well the link to the Leopold is up, but...can't...order...

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff223/Droidekea/Imagenes%20para%20foros/FFFFFFFUUUUUU.jpg)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Ekaros on Tue, 01 March 2011, 06:43:42
I think their range is lovely, contains everything I could desire...
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: calavera on Tue, 01 March 2011, 06:45:16
Patience, My Young Padawan
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: godofdeath on Tue, 01 March 2011, 13:58:02
wahhhhhhhhhh

i want now
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: reaper on Tue, 01 March 2011, 14:26:48
Brian's just teasing us with that one single pic. lol
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: pm_ on Tue, 01 March 2011, 14:42:14
What a tease...
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Chojo31 on Tue, 01 March 2011, 14:46:40
haha I always enjoy ripster pic!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: manfaux on Tue, 01 March 2011, 14:51:53
EK needs to stop trolling us.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: 3one5 on Tue, 01 March 2011, 14:52:07
I've been watching

http://www.changedetection.com/log/elitekeyboards/index4_log.html (http://www.changedetection.com/log/elitekeyboards/index4_log.html)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: wanabe on Tue, 01 March 2011, 15:21:24
nice move to distract from the filco/KbCo/amazon announcement
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: whiteweazel21 on Tue, 01 March 2011, 15:58:12
Yea...first it was late Jan/early Feb, now just "March". That Filco red cherry has my eye, it'd be even sweeter if it came in a 10 keyless version. Also, last "News and Update" on EliteKeyboards.com is dated August 23 2010, guess not much happening there..
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: whiteweazel21 on Tue, 01 March 2011, 17:00:36
Quote from: ripster;303037
He never said January. And at this point I'm sure Majestouch regrets mentioning February, the shortest month after all.
Show Image
(http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Red-Books/Reports/R-Book-01.jpg)


I can swear that on a sidebar on the site at one point it said something along the lines of "Late Janurary, early February for ETA". Pretty sure, because I remember checking the site in January for updates hoping I could buy myself a post Christmas present.

I have no proof, but Ripster...

(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5285/goodbyeg.jpg)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: digitalleftovers on Tue, 01 March 2011, 17:06:04
Quote from: ripster;302963
Keep clicking the pic until something happens.
Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/4738827457_13e2999e59_z.jpg)


That keyboard is still in good shape.  That skeleton must have been holding a FILCO.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 01 March 2011, 17:13:10
Inspecting every single bit and bytes of their site is something.
But does anyone here got enough balls to send a simple email
to: sales@elitekeyboards.com and ASK?

(http://www.masternewmedia.org/images/ask-licensing-283.jpg)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: wanabe on Tue, 01 March 2011, 17:15:40
EK recently posted on GH that they were delayed to mid (?) march
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Addy on Tue, 01 March 2011, 18:20:05
I'm guessing they are on the way...why worry?
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4862653635_550f0f8928.jpg)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: zaerst on Tue, 01 March 2011, 20:02:02
I bet I will see my Red Poker before I see the Leos!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 02 March 2011, 08:09:00
The fact that Brian added a page on EK is promising.  He's pretty well-known for being conservative on publishing release dates and the like.  I would expect they'll be available in the next week or two.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Engine on Wed, 02 March 2011, 17:33:16
I got an email from EK yesterday and they said that "roll out" was due to happen at the end of this month.  Unfortunately, he also said that it would be officially anounced today, which if that means via email I signed up for or on their website, either way, it didn't happen.  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold
Also, I called them two days ago and again today and only get "voice mail".  That was the "Support" line.  Why don't they have a "Sales" line instead of only having an email option?

Oh and one more thing.  EK states on the website that they are the only US distributor of the Topre and Leopold.  Is that true???
Added:  Um, I just looked on Amazon and they have the Topre 103 for $299.  Obviously more than EK.

AND, where is the link for EK in this forum???  I looked in the Venders forums and didn't see them listed.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 02 March 2011, 17:54:32
I'm not sure that an Amazon store called "User Side" counts as an official distributor. It's more likely they are simply an importer. But I could be wrong.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: digitalleftovers on Wed, 02 March 2011, 17:57:25
Quote from: Engine;303706

AND, where is the link for EK in this forum???  I looked in the Venders forums and didn't see them listed.


They used to be in the vendor forum, but have left.  I'm not familiar with the circumstances.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: jsvd on Wed, 02 March 2011, 17:59:58
So, even if EK starts selling the Leopolds, will there be an EU distributor shortly after? EK's shipping price to europe is nuts.. + taxes to get the keyboard out of customs
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:02:07
I'm still not sure why you are so obsessed with more keys, ripster. I actually run out of things for keys to even do after 101. All of my keyboards are actually 102, but there is a dead key that just isn't used for anything after I set it to use the UNIX layout.

And that's counting the keys to the right of the F keys as "useful". Though since I remap them to macro keys, I suppose they sort of are...but still unnecessary.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:04:33
What about the 122 key terminal emulators? By your logic, those are the newest keyboards on the planet.

Honestly, I rather like the empty space between ALT and the Windows key on my keyboards.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:11:50
Actually, I was simply pointing out the ridiculousness and lack of consistency of your statement, nothing more.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Engine on Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:12:50
"Meanwhile, back at the ranch"...
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:15:58
I am a PhD student, and I find it rather offensive you would compare me to that idiot.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:17:25
Glenn Beck wrote a book about idiots.

(http://www.newsrealblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/arguing_with_idiots.jpg)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Engine on Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:26:46
A Cherry rep(Ed) emailed me and stated that MX Black was available in the US and that MX Blue and MX Brown would be available in April.  I would imaging this would mean "NOT" available until then for actual "Purchase" from EK.  EK did use the word "Pre-order" in conjunction with "March" in the latest website announcement.
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Wed, 02 March 2011, 19:11:09
Should I just give in and order a Happy Hacking Keyobard? Before I die of growing old.
I mean they're only $200+ uggggh.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Engine on Wed, 02 March 2011, 19:12:28
By the way, "Ed" recommended Cherry G80 series boards w/the new added Blue/Brown switches and from http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/hub.aspx?wclss=A3

Ripster,
"G80" series boards sound like "Cherry" made boards and not "third party"(Leopold) mfgr boards w/Cherry switches.  Would you recommend them over say, "Leopold"?
I can see why maybe the Cherry rep recommended an actual Cherry board with Cherry switches distrributor.  http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/hub.aspx?wclss=A3
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Corland on Wed, 02 March 2011, 19:14:25
you can buy blues and browns from newegg right now (zowie and razer products, but cherry brown and blue nevertheless).

So yeah, the cherry rep is full of it.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Engine on Wed, 02 March 2011, 19:21:20
Quote from: Corland;303805
you can buy blues and browns from newegg right now (zowie and razer products, but cherry brown and blue nevertheless).

So yeah, the cherry rep is full of it.


I'm suspecting that he was talking about Cherry made boards with Cherry switches vs a third party made board with Cherry switches.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 02 March 2011, 19:21:36
Quote from: Dr.Pepper;303803
Should I just give in and order a Happy Hacking Keyobard? Before I die of growing old.
I mean they're only $200+ uggggh.


Are you a UNIX beard or a coder? If so, yes. Worth every penny.

You could always get the same layout from Unicomp in a Customizer, if you prefer to spend less money.

I use both daily.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: jpc on Wed, 02 March 2011, 19:34:46
Quote from: Dr.Pepper;303803
Should I just give in and order a Happy Hacking Keyobard?


What do you want in a 'board?

For $200+ I like the Kinesis. It's truly (ahem) ergonomic. Never tried any topre though.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: pitashen on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:03:01
So the price is up, $99 for tenkeyless. Not bad deal I suppose?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: thebilgerat on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:04:29
man, 99 buckaroos seems a smoking hot deal, esp if the Filco caps fit.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: EZjiji on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:10:31
I hope the $99 price tag stays on the Leopolds in case I miss the pre-orders. What a great deal.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Armando Penblade on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:17:19
Still no info on the full-size. At least this means I don't have to regret my Filco Majestouch Amazon purchase before it even arrives at my house. . . then again, those tenkeyless Leopolds are $40 cheaper than their KeyboardCo-sold Filco counterparts on Amazon US. . . that does make the potential pricing of the fullsize boards a bit worrisome for me ;)

Of course, if a post I read was correct, it could be a good long while before 104-key Leopolds are available.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: .XL on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:24:55
Quote from: Armando Penblade;303863
Still no info on the full-size. At least this means I don't have to regret my Filco Majestouch Amazon purchase before it even arrives at my house. . . then again, those tenkeyless Leopolds are $40 cheaper than their KeyboardCo-sold Filco counterparts on Amazon US. . . that does make the potential pricing of the fullsize boards a bit worrisome for me ;)

Of course, if a post I read was correct, it could be a good long while before 104-key Leopolds are available.


The $99 price will probably be a temporary thing. He saw the Filco's going up on Amazon, realized he needs to compete on price now (as opposed to being the sole distributor) and dropped his price to a level where even with shipping it will be cheaper than buying off Amazon (prime and super saver are your friends).

All things considered, I think the price difference on the PRE-ORDER tenkeylesses alone will be about $15-$20 in favor of the Leopolds, but only time will tell if that will be their standard price.

Like I said before, he might have to stay at that price to stay competitive, but it does seem awfully cheap, considering the cheapest I've heard of a Leopold board being is $105 US
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: krazymunky on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:25:43
gahh i have to wait till march 7th to preorder... stop teasing us!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: .XL on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:35:42
Quote from: krazymunky;303869
gahh i have to wait till march 7th to preorder... stop teasing us!


If you have Amazon Prime you'd have your keyboard by friday ;)

I'm quite intrigued by the Leopolds, though. I'd pre-order one if I had more money...someone managed to get into my iTunes account and buy $100 worth of iTunes gift cards. Coincidence, eh?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: majestouch on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:49:42
Quote from: .XL;303868
The $99 price will probably be a temporary thing. He saw the Filco's going up on Amazon, realized he needs to compete on price now (as opposed to being the sole distributor) and dropped his price to a level where even with shipping it will be cheaper than buying off Amazon (prime and super saver are your friends).

All things considered, I think the price difference on the PRE-ORDER tenkeylesses alone will be about $15-$20 in favor of the Leopolds, but only time will tell if that will be their standard price.

Like I said before, he might have to stay at that price to stay competitive, but it does seem awfully cheap, considering the cheapest I've heard of a Leopold board being is $105 US


Actually 99 has been the plan for many months, there were no knee jerk realizations;) In my mind that is a fair retail price point for imported "made in Taiwan" mech boards of this quality, with 1-2 middlemen, at this point in time. FILCOs are way overpriced because Diatec, quite frankly, over charges distributors. They buy in dollars, then resell in JPY at a very large margin, distributors are left very little room to move with the strengthening JPY and new competition. Das Keyboard retail is overpriced as well, but for the purpose of distribution and edu discounts, so they survive on their brand name it seems, for the time being.

Bottom line, anyone importing FILCOs into the US will not be able to compete on price. I told Diatec this almost a year and a half ago, this is why I filtered/tested their boards exhaustively in order to build the "value" proposition of the brand name; this is why I recommended the switch to FR-4, this is why I recommended greasing stablizers, key coating improvements, keycap changes, controller improvements, circuit improvements, eye-safe LED biasing, and many other issues which they have no taste for and resisted me on (because they have no engineers and no designers). It didn't help that they got greedy and overextended themselves internationally, but I digress...in any case it's nice they're seeing the light finally, but their margin is still a bit of an insult to distributors, and the RK-9000 is an embarrassment to their business savvy.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: polygon on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:53:23
how quick do you guys think they will sell out? I may not be able to order until the following week.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:56:04
Great info majestouch, very candid. You rock.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Engine on Wed, 02 March 2011, 20:59:53
EK Leopold page updated again:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:00:40
Oooh pictures!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: .XL on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:03:23
Quote from: majestouch;303876
Actually 99 has been the plan for many months, there were no knee jerk realizations;) In my mind that is a fair retail price point for imported "made in Taiwan" mech boards of this quality, with 1-2 middlemen, at this point in time. FILCOs are way overpriced because Diatec, quite frankly, over charges distributors. They buy in dollars, then resell in JPY at a very large margin, distributors are left very little room to move with the strengthening JPY and new competition. Das Keyboard retail is overpriced as well, but for the purpose of distribution and edu discounts, so they survive on their brand name it seems, for the time being.



That's awesome! I'll definitely pick one up, then. Hopefully you can talk Leopold into releasing a Red or Clear as I don't like blues and I already have a brown.

Pleeeeeease?

Quote

Bottom line, anyone importing FILCOs into the US will not be able to compete on price. I told Diatec this almost a year and a half ago, this is why I filtered/tested their boards exhaustively in order to build the "value" proposition of the brand name; this is why I recommended the switch to FR-4, this is why I recommended greasing stablizers, key coating improvements, keycap changes, controller improvements, circuit improvements, eye-safe LED biasing, and many other issues which they have no taste for and resisted me on (because they have no engineers and no designers). It didn't help that they got greedy and overextended themselves internationally, but I digress...in any case it's nice they're seeing the light finally, but their margin is still a bit of an insult to distributors, and the RK-9000 is an embarrassment to their business savvy.


That whole currency swapping is pretty stupid...but I digress. Seems you've moved onto greener pastures now, and at $99 for a tenkeyless I don't think I'll be able to withhold purchase for long...

In your opinion, is the price difference between Filcos and Leopolds warranted at all? Bad business decisions aside, is there anything in the Filco that has the Leopold beat or do you stand by your previous comments that they're on the same level of quality?

I think you should send me one for testing. I'm very impartial and have never tried blacks so I'd probably write you a rave review!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: rustybarnacle on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:04:19
I'm probably in on a cherry brown otaku, but I so wish the windows keys had no bubbles (and he only has the printed replacements, no non-printed makes me a sad panda).  I can probably live with the LED cutouts on the various applicable keys, but solid keys there would be ideal.  Who uses caps lock anyway.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Hak Foo on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:06:03
No chance somewhere in that Leopold catalog there's basically a white-ALPS ABS M1 or a full-size Zero analogue?

Although I've been riding this G80 for a year, and invested more than it was worth in replacement caps and spares (anyone need a mostly complete -8113 with clears?), I find more and more I hate the plasticky feel and light touch of cherry switches, and need some 75g sliders to kick my ass, but I hate big enters and small backspaces (so old Focus boards and the DSI 6600 aren't my dream)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: .XL on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:06:07
Quote from: rustybarnacle;303890
I'm probably in on a cherry brown otaku, but I so wish the windows keys had no bubbles (and he only has the printed replacements, no non-printed makes me a sad panda).  I can probably live with the LED cutouts on the various applicable keys, but solid keys there would be ideal.  


The domed keycaps are a requirement of having the 'Windows' keys. The manufacturer has no say in the matter, unless they'd rather not include 'Windows' keys.

Quote
Who uses caps lock anyway.


My brother has rage issues. He uses it all the time.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: oddfuture on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:09:46
where are the full size leopolds? :[
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: lootbag on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:13:02
awww, no MX Reds.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:13:23
Not yet at least... :P
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: kidchunks on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:13:46
Quote from: majestouch;303876
the RK-9000 is an embarrassment to their business savvy.

I thought the RK-9000 was decent.

Despite my squeaky backspace key.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: reaper on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:14:59
Quote from: keyboardlover;303899
Not yet at least... :P


Soon I hope.  I'll be getting at least one tenkeyless from them for sure. =P
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: majestouch on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:21:00
Quote from: polygon;303879
how quick do you guys think they will sell out? I may not be able to order until the following week.


No idea, the newsletter will go out soon, and the list is lonnng these days.

Quote from: .XL;303888

In your opinion, is the price difference between Filcos and Leopolds warranted at all? Bad business decisions aside, is there anything in the Filco that has the Leopold beat or do you stand by your previous comments that they're on the same level of quality?


I've compared the two in detail in another post recently, to the tune that they're pretty similar on quality. The new buzz on the FILCOs is the FR-4 PCB material, but the way they're marketing it is laughable. I recommended FR-4 for several different reasons and none of them were to improve the feel of typing. Anyone telling you they can "feel" a difference while typing is probably selling snake oil. In any case, I have not evaluated the new FILCO PCB in person, so I cannot comment on what, if any, improvement it will make; as it's benefit is greatly dependent on the material quailty, circuit trace design, and metal plate/switch mounting.

Quote

I think you should send me one for testing. I'm very impartial and have never tried blacks so I'd probably write you a rave review!


Sorry, I don't send out review units very often, if at all...also, black switches won't be available in this first run; as I find them to in low demand and a bit of a mixed bag for most customers; they're better suited to be marketed strictly for FPS gamers, which isn't the target of most of our other products.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:22:43
majestouch, will you offer a board with reds in this first run or if not, eventually?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: oddfuture on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:24:49
thanks for the update majes guess i'll  have to wait patiently for the full size :D
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: majestouch on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:29:40
Quote from: kidchunks;303900
I thought the RK-9000 was decent.

Despite my squeaky backspace key.


It is quite decent for the price. I was alluding to the fact that because it is essentially a FILCO 104 at a much better price, it shows how silly Diatec was for not having exclusive rights to the design, heck even the PCBs in an RK-9000 say FILCO on them. You can imagine how angry this made me the day it came out (I was the first customer). Hell was raised in TW the next day, but that only delayed the sale for a few weeks. Diatec was helpless; so unless they've finally come around and completely bought out rights to that design, then everyone might as well buy an RK if they're looking for a Cherry Blue full-size FILCO.

Put some silicon grease on that backspace.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Wed, 02 March 2011, 21:35:15
I already have a das. So I'm wondering if it is really what I want... Although I really need a space saving keyboard that fits in my backpack easily so I don't have to type on those awful keyboards at my school. And yeah I am a unix/Linux coder although I don't have a beard. :) if leopards have cherry red though forget it... Gaming board school, everything!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: theferenc on Wed, 02 March 2011, 22:24:51
Dr.Pepper, if you're a UNIX beard(less), and want a mobile keyboard, why not spring for the HHKB? Worth every penny if you do a lot of programming.

Likely not the best gaming keyboard, though, only having 60 keys and whatnot.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Wed, 02 March 2011, 22:37:38
Quote from: majestouch;303876
Actually 99 has been the plan for many months, there were no knee jerk realizations;) In my mind that is a fair retail price point for imported "made in Taiwan" mech boards of this quality, with 1-2 middlemen, at this point in time. FILCOs are way overpriced because Diatec, quite frankly, over charges distributors.


So that price will stick? Fantastic! I think you just sunk the HMS Rosewill along with the Filcos.

Here's hoping the Geekhack MX clear version makes it to market! :thumb:
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: .XL on Wed, 02 March 2011, 23:38:12
Quote from: majestouch;303905

Sorry, I don't send out review units very often, if at all...also, black switches won't be available in this first run; as I find them to in low demand and a bit of a mixed bag for most customers; they're better suited to be marketed strictly for FPS gamers, which isn't the target of most of our other products.


Well I assure you, I will get you recognition! I'll wear a t-shirt while I play, it'll get a lot of exposure.

Then again, I'm not pro and only play at my apartment. And the only person that would see the shirt while I play is my girlfriend...

...maybe not a very good idea for you then :p

If the only real difference is the PCB, then I doubt it will matter to anyone (definitely not me). Here's to hoping it's the same quality as Filco at $99! And a clear version would be faaaaantastic...
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Wogrim on Thu, 03 March 2011, 00:02:02
Any full-sized leopolds coming?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: majestouch on Thu, 03 March 2011, 00:10:53
Quote from: Wogrim;303977
Any full-sized leopolds coming?


Not available yet...
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: pm_ on Thu, 03 March 2011, 01:36:48
This is awesome news.  I'll be pre-ordering a brown.  One question for Majestouch or anyone else, keycaps on the cherry switches are mostly interchangeable, so the lavender WASD Elite Keyboards sells fit the Leopold's too, right?

Also, I'd love to see a Leopold or other quality brand at a hopefully similar price point with a Choc Mini layout, as, you know, I'd have to buy one of those too.   So if you could pass that along...
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: ZeNmAc on Thu, 03 March 2011, 01:49:41
Nice.  My long wait is almost over.  I came very close to buying a daskeyboard ultimate (in december) and then realized I wanted a tenkeyless after all.

I will be pre-ordering a tenkeyless w/ browns and blank keys I think.  Christmas gift to myself...seriously.  That is cheaper than I expected TBH.

That might give me a chance to rework my current keyboard.  Mods need to be re-done.  RIT dye keys fail, need to paint the rest of the keys and such :thumb:.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: neo on Thu, 03 March 2011, 02:13:59
Quote from: .XL;303868
...the cheapest I've heard of a Leopold board being is $105 US


Archiss AS-KB87T (Leopold FC200RT) costs about US$85 in Japan:
http://kakaku.com/item/K0000163355/ (http://kakaku.com/item/K0000163355/)

Of course international shipping will be outrageously expensive, but the boards themselves are pretty cheap.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: neo on Thu, 03 March 2011, 02:22:05
Quote from: majestouch;303911
It is quite decent for the price. I was alluding to the fact that because it is essentially a FILCO 104 at a much better price, it shows how silly Diatec was for not having exclusive rights to the design, heck even the PCBs in an RK-9000 say FILCO on them. You can imagine how angry this made me the day it came out (I was the first customer). Hell was raised in TW the next day, but that only delayed the sale for a few weeks. Diatec was helpless; so unless they've finally come around and completely bought out rights to that design, then everyone might as well buy an RK if they're looking for a Cherry Blue full-size FILCO.


So RK-9000 was the reason for divorce?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: neo on Thu, 03 March 2011, 02:32:33
Quote from: .XL;303893
The domed keycaps are a requirement of having the 'Windows' keys. The manufacturer has no say in the matter, unless they'd rather not include 'Windows' keys.


Only if manufacturer wants to print Windows logo. On blank keys Microsoft doesn't have any say.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: pm_ on Thu, 03 March 2011, 02:55:05
Quote from: neo;304024
So RK-9000 was the reason for divorce?


From what majestouch has said, it sounds like he feels Filco has been too slow to act in a changing marketplace, resulting in products that aren't really price competitive any longer. Sounds like the RK-9000 may have been the wakeup call though.

His margins are probably the same or less on the Leopold, but if they are fairly equivalent (or better) than the Filcos in terms of features and quality, he should move a lot more product.  Either way, we get (hopefully) a similar or better product at a much more competitive price.  Wins all around for Elite Keyboards and consumers.  Much happiness and celebration ensues.  Ripster will post lego pics as evidence.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Thu, 03 March 2011, 05:27:36
Just an FYI the windows key sucks. Having that little logo sucks. Call it a meta key and be done with it. And I think I might just have to end up buying a happy hacking keyboard... As I don't have $200 I think I'll be trying to find one used. I just don't want to spend a lot and then find out that they also have those in red switches a month from now. Looks like I'll just be happy with my Das and my model m for now, and wait it out.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 06:26:57
Quote from: majestouch;303876
Actually 99 has been the plan for many months, there were no knee jerk realizations;) In my mind that is a fair retail price point for imported "made in Taiwan" mech boards of this quality, with 1-2 middlemen, at this point in time. FILCOs are way overpriced because Diatec, quite frankly, over charges distributors. They buy in dollars, then resell in JPY at a very large margin, distributors are left very little room to move with the strengthening JPY and new competition. Das Keyboard retail is overpriced as well, but for the purpose of distribution and edu discounts, so they survive on their brand name it seems, for the time being.

Bottom line, anyone importing FILCOs into the US will not be able to compete on price. I told Diatec this almost a year and a half ago, this is why I filtered/tested their boards exhaustively in order to build the "value" proposition of the brand name; this is why I recommended the switch to FR-4, this is why I recommended greasing stablizers, key coating improvements, keycap changes, controller improvements, circuit improvements, eye-safe LED biasing, and many other issues which they have no taste for and resisted me on (because they have no engineers and no designers). It didn't help that they got greedy and overextended themselves internationally, but I digress...in any case it's nice they're seeing the light finally, but their margin is still a bit of an insult to distributors, and the RK-9000 is an embarrassment to their business savvy.

That's the Majestouch I like to see.  I like a good, old-fashioned (verbal) ass-whipping.  Stick it to the man, bro!

Great price point, too.  It has me chomping at the bit for a fullsize.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 03 March 2011, 06:36:05
Looks like your expensive Ducky will end up in the corner :(
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: jomiyo on Thu, 03 March 2011, 07:30:08
Well, was gonna wait for reviews, but think I just might go ahead and pull the trigger on the 7th :smile:
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 08:23:23
Quote from: keyboardlover;304089
Looks like your expensive Ducky will end up in the corner :(

Probably not.  I need a 'board at home.  That, and I am finding that I really like having the shortcut keys in the upper-right corner.  I am going to see how some of the reviews shake out on the Leopolds, too.  Looking at the product pics of the fullsize Leopolds, I'm starting to question if I should get one.  Their lock light area doesn't really jive with my aesthetics.

BTW, the Ducky's were only $110.  The extra $30 was for the wrist rest.  The prices are about in-line with the Leopolds.

The 9008 is every bit as good, if not better, than either of the Filcos I had.

You know... you're starting to sound a lot like Welly these days.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 03 March 2011, 08:36:08
Quote from: itlnstln;304127
You know... you're starting to sound a lot like Welly these days.

Pot. Kettle.

Black.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 08:38:35
See?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 03 March 2011, 08:41:25
It is always nice when emotions are involved.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 03 March 2011, 08:43:33
Quote from: ripster;304141
You guys should go fight at KBDAuthority.not.

We all get along at Geekhack.org.


It is kinda ironic that you are the one who started trolling KL.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 08:43:45
Quote from: RiGS;304142
It is always nice when emotions are involved.

Absolutely.  You need to feel the love.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 08:47:17
Quote from: ripster;304145
Lmnop nicknamed me "Spock".  I have no emotions.

Same here.  At least that's what Jung and Keirsey say.  My ex-GFs would have to agree, too.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 03 March 2011, 08:52:34
Quote from: itlnstln;304144
Absolutely.  You need to feel the love.


Lol I keep a cat for that.

Actually my friends consider me a sociopath.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:07:04
They're just clearing inventory; bankruptcy sale.  The Majestouch 2s were a bunch of prototypes, and they figured they could make a few bucks selling them off.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:12:58
This is probably because Japanese people don't have souls and neither taste.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:16:36
The blue model would have been hot with cream keys.  As feminine as it is, I actually like the new pink model.  At the very least, it shows a little creativity in design.  Black gets boring after awhile.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: woody on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:22:24
Quote from: ripster;304173
Filco has some new ones in black too.  Last gasps from a dying company.

And then I will sell my Filcos at a high collector price!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:23:01
The gray Filco logo is hot.  They should have used the same printing on the caps.  That would have been a beast.

I really need to do my own group buy. I might do one on my next vacation.

Probably not.  I would rather do cool ****.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:23:05
Quote
As feminine as it is, I actually like the new pink model. At the very least, it shows a little creativity in design

It could blend into any Hello Kitty collection unnoticeably.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:24:57
Quote from: ripster;304176
In the meantime..

How's last year Ducky - the iRocks keyboards doing?


iRocks?  I think all of 2 people bought that one.  The layout was horrible (among other things).  With the lack of G80-1800-type layouts in the US, they really ****ed up the opportunity to do something awesome there.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: vun on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:26:55
So does this mean Filco might be going out of business? Considered getting one because they seem to be popular and, from what I've read, pretty good. Not so sure anymore.
Should I pick one up in case Filco dies, or will they be "replaced"?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: woody on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:29:38
Quote from: vun;304184
Should I pick one up in case Filco dies, or will they be "replaced"?

I keep a NIB one, which I will sell to you (for ridiculous amount of money) after they close. Soon.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:54:40
If someone could explain how Filco will be able to compete with Leopold, I'd love to hear it. They aren't going out of business of course, but I doubt they'll survive for long.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: noodles256 on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:03:04
EK has leopolds up $99.

They say it is preorder price.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:05:55
Filco already has its reputation. 139$ free shipped is not bad in the US.
Also Filco aesthetically is much better than the gayish Leopold.
Filco will eventually has dual layered pcb.
Also there are a lot of people who prefer costar stabilizers.
Oh, I have almost forgot that the Leopold spacebar is a pain in the ass.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Armando Penblade on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:18:47
Noodles: I think Majestouch just said in this thread that the $99 is the permanent price for the tenkeyless boards.

RiGS: I think Ripster just said elsewhere that the Leopolds will also feature a dual-layered pcb.

Person who will inevitably respond while I'm typing this: you suck!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:23:40
I bet Filco will drop their price, or in other words, they should drop their price.  It just depends on how arrogant they are.  Soulhunter was quoted from Costar that their full-size (unbranded) keyboards are $50 for some MOQ.  If that's the case, Diatec's raking in a pretty decent profit from the Filco line once you factor in other expenses.  They probably have room to drop their price some and still profit.  Beyond that, I think there will be a marketing campaign to show Filco as a higher-quality alternative to explain a higher retail price.  Coming from a retail background, I can tell you that customers typically see right through that bull****.  Then again, never underestimate the power of

(http://media.shopwell.com/kp/4523001108_full.jpg)

Just ask Toyota.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: noodles256 on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:30:05
Quote from: Armando Penblade;304226
Noodles: I think Majestouch just said in this thread that the $99 is the permanent price for the tenkeyless boards.

RiGS: I think Ripster just said elsewhere that the Leopolds will also feature a dual-layered pcb.

Person who will inevitably respond while I'm typing this: you suck!


$99 is such a competitive price. That is smexy
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:35:39
At $99 If they come in red ( switches ), I will get one, but otherwise I'll be happy with my Das. Although that blue Filco is kinda sweet. ( My mother would like the pink one as well )

edit reason: Forgot to add switches
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:39:32
I thought it was about 2.15 at the price of the realforce on elite keyboards.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:42:41
Quote from: ripster;304246
Here's the question of the day.

Why would ANYONE buy last years model of Topre when you can buy 3 Leopolds for the same price (assume you buy a few Topre esc keys if you are a mathematical whiz)?


It's not Cherry-based?

That's not to say that Topres aren't overpriced, but it is an apples-to-oranges comparison on a certain level.  That's like saying that you can buy 2 Camrys for the cost of a BMW 5-series.  True, and quality wise, that might be correct, but you would be ignoring other, important factors.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 10:45:54
You can get a Realforce for as low as $215 on EK.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: zakazak on Thu, 03 March 2011, 11:30:49
hmm the leopolods are pretty cheap + i like the cable tunnel or what ever it is called in english.

i wonder if they are rly any worse than the filco´s. hope someone will write a review soon :)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 March 2011, 11:45:22
I detached/attached the cable on my HHKB a ton, and it never caused a problem, but to Majestouch's point, the Leopolds' (and Duckys')  jack may not be as sturdy.  One thing I noticed on my Ducky, and I see the same thing on the Leopolds, is that the amount of space around the USB connector on the 'board is small, and routing the cable to the left or right seems like it would create a lot of stress on the cable/connector.  I run mine straight out as it took an uncomfortable amount of effort to try routing out the side.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 03 March 2011, 11:48:36
Quote from: RiGS;304216
Filco already has its reputation. 139$ free shipped is not bad in the US.
Also Filco aesthetically is much better than the gayish Leopold.
Filco will eventually has dual layered pcb.
Also there are a lot of people who prefer costar stabilizers.
Oh, I have almost forgot that the Leopold spacebar is a pain in the ass.


Remeber kids, never ever smoke weed while using a computer. Bad things happen.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: pm_ on Thu, 03 March 2011, 14:09:55
Quote from: ripster;304246
Here's the question of the day.

Why would ANYONE buy last years model of Topre when you can buy 3 Leopolds for the same price (assume you buy a few Topre esc keys if you are a mathematical whiz)?


Yeah, add in a few keys and shipping, and that tenkeyless is close to $300 vs. the Leopold similarly configured for around $120.  That is quite a price premium to pay, especially for something that might be marginally better.  

However, I'm still interested in a Topre at some point, and may be more inclined to try one if it was only twice as much as a Leopold. :)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: mjacob on Thu, 03 March 2011, 14:27:41
Quote from: pm_;304410
However, I'm still interested in a Topre at some point, and may be more inclined to try one if it was only twice as much as a Leopold. :)


In that case, you can have my gently-used 103U for $240 shipped to anywhere in the CONUS. Then I can buy a spare Leopold to hold in reserve in my private vault (by which I mean gun safe).
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Thu, 03 March 2011, 14:27:49
I want a happy hacking ish keyboard that lights up like a deck, has cherry red switches, sturdy non mini USB cable, n-key rollover over USB, lights up in any color you want, no matter what mood you're in. And most of all has no "windows" key.


All for about $99. That will never happen.  But in the event that the deck keyboards come in cherry reds, or these do, I'll be springing for one of these.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Thu, 03 March 2011, 14:35:44
take a look at these: http://store.daskeyboard.com/Linux-Key-Caps-2-Keys/dp/B004JPK81I
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: rustybarnacle on Thu, 03 March 2011, 14:52:49
Quote from: ripster;304429
It's so pretty and domey.
Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/5065159060_464044dfd5_z.jpg)


Ick ick ick.  Stupid domes.  Just gimme a blank whatever key.  And yes, I realize i can just harvest/buy a couple of modifier keys from whoever, but then they won't be exactly the same material/feel/shape/look/whatever as the rest of the keys, and my left eye will start twitching...
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Thu, 03 March 2011, 15:13:51
I just confirmed that the alt - meta - control keys are all identical on the das blank version. So I'm happy. ( Yeah there's no dome )
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: pm_ on Thu, 03 March 2011, 15:15:49
Quote from: mjacob;304425
In that case, you can have my gently-used 103U for $240 shipped to anywhere in the CONUS. Then I can buy a spare Leopold to hold in reserve in my private vault (by which I mean gun safe).


Guess I forgot to mention, no full size keyboards for me ever again.  :p

And while I eventually do want one, $200 kb's are currently out of my price range.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: godofdeath on Thu, 03 March 2011, 15:33:15
No full size preorder I'm sad
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: neo on Thu, 03 March 2011, 15:34:17
That Windows logo doesn't bother me (although the knowledge that I've payed for it royalties to Microsoft somewhat does), but the domes are really ugly.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: theferenc on Thu, 03 March 2011, 15:36:05
Because keyboards are like cars. Every year, a new model with new technology comes out, the obseletes the old one.

Oh, wait...
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: wongster on Thu, 03 March 2011, 16:17:13
I've been wondering if EK will include any accessories/extras with the Leopold. Has anyone heard anything about that?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: spolia optima on Thu, 03 March 2011, 16:24:33
Lol, I actually love the feel of those domed windows keys. they should make all the buttons windows buttons
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: rustybarnacle on Thu, 03 March 2011, 16:26:11
Quote from: Dr.Pepper;304460
I just confirmed that the alt - meta - control keys are all identical on the das blank version. So I'm happy. ( Yeah there's no dome )


I have both a printed and non printed Das Keyboard, and neither have domed keys.  Maybe the domed thing is a new-ish requirement?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: digitalleftovers on Thu, 03 March 2011, 16:40:31
Quote from: rustybarnacle;304506
I have both a printed and non printed Das Keyboard, and neither have domed keys.  Maybe the domed thing is a new-ish requirement?

AFIK, the dome relates to the windows Vista/7 logo, although, it doesn't seem like the timing of availability is consistent.  Either there are quite a few keyboards that were manufactured before that specification that continued to be sold, or manufacturers were just slow to comply.  I am betting its the later since that key requires them to use a separate mold.  If I were a manufacturer, I would be more than a little annoyed at microsoft for not only charging me to use the logo, but adding additional expenses to my process.

Edit: I bought a filco from EK just 6 months ago (blank) and it does not have the domes.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Armando Penblade on Thu, 03 March 2011, 16:55:38
The Microsoft Comfort Curve I bought ~August 2008 didn't have it, nor did the replacements I considered getting in about the same time in 2009. Of course, that's stretching back pretty far ;)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Thu, 03 March 2011, 17:52:53
I just hate windows in general. No you cannot convince me otherwise. Oh, and I don't think that Filco is doomed, my mom wants one of those pink keyboards. She is trying to find a place that will ship it to the US right now lol.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: digitalleftovers on Thu, 03 March 2011, 18:03:06
Quote from: Dr.Pepper;304569
I just hate windows in general. No you cannot convince me otherwise. Oh, and I don't think that Filco is doomed, my mom wants one of those pink keyboards. She is trying to find a place that will ship it to the US right now lol.


If she is successful, please post pics and how she obtains it.  Is she trying to use a broker?  I'm guessing the most reliable way is going to be Obook.  Filco is definetly not doomed.  All they need now are some positive reviews on amazon.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Bass on Thu, 03 March 2011, 18:10:49
Definitely a nice price point to start out. I might consider picking up one of the tenkeyless with brown switches because I have yet to try them.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Dr.Pepper on Thu, 03 March 2011, 18:11:59
Yeah, if she finds out how to get one in the fist place I will post back and tell you how she got it. :)
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: zirrow on Thu, 03 March 2011, 20:24:21
it's your eye for detail that makes you so special ripster
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Thu, 03 March 2011, 20:52:26
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15770&d=1299207063)

What happened to this thread?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: zirrow on Thu, 03 March 2011, 20:53:59
Quote from: Mr. Perfect;304671

What happened to this thread?


I blame the schools
Title: ducky?
Post by: Suchadropper on Fri, 04 March 2011, 02:55:16
i come often see what's going on.
i am obviously new here though.

http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1205922164

are they copying FILCO now?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: ironman31 on Fri, 04 March 2011, 06:45:23
Quote from: Suchadropper;304775
i come often see what's going on.
i am obviously new here though.

http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1205922164

are they copying FILCO now?

I don't know. In my mind, those are superior keycap pulling tools, and leopold just put their name on it. Not many other ways you could do it.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: laden3 on Fri, 04 March 2011, 07:00:36
Quote from: ripster;304653
Best typo EVAH!


ROFL the ass-fisting joke?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: vun on Fri, 04 March 2011, 13:05:54
Might be a bit off topic, but I can't seem to place the Leopolds in my mental map of keyboards.
As far as I've gathered they seem like Filco boards, only slightly better. Either that or pretty much the same, only a different brand.

Interested in knowing because I want both a brown and blue board, so wondering if I should just get two Filcos or a mix.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: vun on Fri, 04 March 2011, 13:23:18
So because Filcos are Japanese I'd be better off with two of those?
I like variety, but I'm not sure if it's worth bothering ordering from two different vendors if they're not really any different.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: vun on Fri, 04 March 2011, 13:34:13
Alright, thanks, still new to this. Figured I'd make sure my first step into mech boards wasn't a total bummer, then we'll see how it works out afterwards.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Chobopants on Fri, 04 March 2011, 15:44:51
Pretty psyched on this. Did my first dip into mechanicals (this century) by grabbing a Filco fullsize brown from EK a few months ago. I've been itching to grab a tenkeyless blue but didn't really feel comfortable dropping another $150 on what may become a backup/travel keyboard. Setting a calendar notification right now for Monday!
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: manfaux on Fri, 04 March 2011, 15:47:37
Quote from: ripster;305018
It's like this.

Japan>Korea>China

Pretty easy to grok actually.  I used to think grok was Norwegian.


except everything is made in China- Filcos and Leos.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: Pylon on Tue, 08 March 2011, 15:40:32
Quote from: ripster;305018
It's like this.

Japan>Korea>China

Pretty easy to grok actually.  I used to think grok was Norwegian.


But where does Taiwan fit into the equation?
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: manfaux on Tue, 08 March 2011, 16:29:39
Quote from: ripster;307971
Taiwan = China.

Unless of course you are Taiwanese.  Last wedding I was at I sure got an earful on this.


lol I wonder what kind of wedding did you go to.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: neo on Tue, 08 March 2011, 17:53:03
I would say on average, quality of stuff produced in Taiwan is substantially higher than quality of stuff produced in China. Just to get ripster onboard I will give one specific example: Ducky tenkeyless as opposed to Filcos and Leopolds. Case closed.
Title: EK Leopolds up...sort of
Post by: manfaux on Tue, 08 March 2011, 18:58:31
Quote from: neo;308047
I would say on average, quality of stuff produced in Taiwan is substantially higher than quality of stuff produced in China. Just to get ripster onboard I will give one specific example: Ducky tenkeyless as opposed to Filcos and Leopolds. Case closed.


Ducky 1087 is made in Taiwan.

(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1112/78585613.jpg)