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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: -Mog- on Tue, 01 March 2011, 09:47:22

Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: -Mog- on Tue, 01 March 2011, 09:47:22: Greetings all :) I don't know if there's any solution to my problem but I thought I'd give it a shot and ask here before I feed it to the bin. Anything would be greatly appreciated.

About a month ago I spilt a pint of water on my G19 keyboard. I dried it out over three days, opened it up and cleaned it with Isopropyl alcohol and for the most part it works as it should do. It's only taken until now for me to realise that my tilde key and "next" media key have stopped working. I've disassembled it, checked it for visible issues and reassembled it and can find nothing glaringly obvious. If these keys have stopped working is there a likely cause I could attempt to remedy or is it a lost cause?
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 01 March 2011, 10:28:00: Quote from: -Mog-;302739
Opened it up and cleaned it with Isopropyl alcohol. (...) tilde key and "next" media key have stopped working. I've disassembled it

The G19 is using rubber dome switches. When you say you disassembled it, how far did you go in that process. Were you able to see the contacts?

I never pealed a G19 before is this what you saw?

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/2581618051_9c15835623_z.jpg)

Or maybe it's time to get a real keyboard? Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: -Mog- on Tue, 01 March 2011, 10:41:07: I took it all out of the casing, so everything in that picture was seperated and disattached. That's pretty much identical to what's in there. The domes, two sheets loosely backed onto a white plastic board.

Yeah if I come into a keyboard aficionado forum asking these kinda questions about this keyboard I gonna expect a little flaming I guess :p
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 01 March 2011, 11:05:54: I think that there is one or more breaks on the circuits on the membrane going to those keys. It can have been caused by the water having caused a short circuit (overloading the signal line with electricity), the alcohol dissolving the binding agent that holds the metal powder in the circuits together, from rubbing when you wiped it dry, or a combination of the three.

Once you had found the break(s), you can repair it with conductive glue or a conductive pen (circuit board repair pen).
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: -Mog- on Tue, 01 March 2011, 12:17:24: Quote from: Findecanor;302798
I think that there is one or more breaks on the circuits on the membrane going to those keys. It can have been caused by the water having caused a short circuit (overloading the signal line with electricity), the alcohol dissolving the binding agent that holds the metal powder in the circuits together, from rubbing when you wiped it dry, or a combination of the three.

Once you had found the break(s), you can repair it with conductive glue or a conductive pen (circuit board repair pen).

Many thanks for your advice, I'm going to order a conductive pen and see how it goes. Even if this is a no go I can think of other uses I might have for it. I feel like a bit of a dumbass now with some of the times I've had a soldering iron out when a conductive pen would have been more fitting. You learn something new every day I guess :) I'll post back results in a few days.
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 01 March 2011, 12:40:05: Quote from: -Mog-;302777
Yeah if I come into a keyboard aficionado forum asking these kinda questions about this keyboard I gonna expect a little flaming I guess :p

Well, the couple of posts above are giving you some very good advices.

And sorry for my bottom line comment. It was not meant to be flaming.
Just a tiny teasing.

That Logitech is extremely expensive for what it gives. And it's a shame that it is not designed with an adequate fluid containment network. If any flaming, they are aimed at Logitech… Not you.

Welcome to GeekHack
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: hoggy on Tue, 01 March 2011, 12:45:28: I hope your repair goes well. Let us know how you get on.
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: gilgam on Tue, 01 March 2011, 13:37:31: Flaming maybe

But you really should consider buying a true Keyboard,

I'm a key born again, and you know, they are the worst ....
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: hoggy on Tue, 01 March 2011, 13:41:56: Besides, if you can't fix it, it's only those two keys... Sell it on ebay and we'll help you spend the money...
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: -Mog- on Tue, 01 March 2011, 15:21:57: Thanks guys for everything you've said. Yeah I know it wasn't like evil hate flames etc, more like tongue in cheek jab :)

Taking a look at the membranes inside the keyboard I can see it's possible I'll make a mess of it but I'm a firm believer in trying to fix any device before discarding it. Even a failed fix will result in knowledge to pass on in the future.

I think I can see at least one place where there may be an issue. Along the bottom right where the circuit follows the bottom of the membrane to the media buttons I can what appears to be a brown mark smeered between the lines. I'm guessing I need to clean that out and run the pen some distance to bridge where it's leaked. Well I've ordered a conductive pen and will spend some time here during the next few days to get my head round it. I've learnt a fair bit about keyboards in general already just looking through threads here.

When I bought it I was enticed by the LCD and the on-the-fly macro binding capabilities (it's predominantly used for gaming.) I'm a bit of a sucker for the gadgets etc and the LCD comes in handy for testing overclocking and hell just watching tv episodes when I'm doing something with windows everywhere. So in the future should I be looking at a replacement, is it possible to get a quality keyboard and still have some of the useful and useless crap that the G19 does?
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 01 March 2011, 16:40:24: Quote from: -Mog-;303007
Is it possible to get a quality keyboard and still have some of the useful and useless crap that the G19 does?

Highend and multi-functions are kind of mutually exclusive statements.

If you list your features by must have, nice to have and I don't care. Then, the folks here might be able to point to the right device for you.

Be aware, the most educated users here are also suffering from sex deprivation which is the toll to pay for Geekmanship . Any suggestive terms may lead major topic derailement.

Good luck
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: vun on Tue, 01 March 2011, 17:57:42: Quote from: ripster;303056
Just get a USB minimonitor.
Show Image
(http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/action/large/21514ef.jpg)

... After years of geekery I had no idea these existed. Now I think I almost have to get one.
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 01 March 2011, 18:05:00: Quote from: vun;303096
... After years of geekery I had no idea these existed. Now I think I almost have to get one.

I was shy to say the same... But now that you did it first, I follow.

Deer Santa...
(pun intended)
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: bettablue on Tue, 01 March 2011, 22:57:00: Quote from: ripster;303056
Just get a USB minimonitor.
Show Image
(http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/action/large/21514ef.jpg)
Is there any piece of hardware you DON'T have ripster? I'm jealous...
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: -Mog- on Wed, 02 March 2011, 07:01:50: I think I might have to treat myself to one of those at some point. I was vaguely aware of them but didn't think they were that cheap. A quick googling turns them up at around the £60 mark 0.o and a damn sight more functional than the G19 LCD.

However if it's a trade off between a better keyboard or the G19's features a part of me still wants to stick with the G19 for the all in one package it presents (and the game specific applets that come with it.) I've actually found typing on it to be very pleasant (it was the first time I'd spent more than £15 on a keyboard) so I guess the only main benefit I would get from higher quality keys would be their lifespan.
Title: Restoring dead keys
Post by: -Mog- on Mon, 07 March 2011, 08:32:33: (http://www.moggysdomain.com/pictures/IMAG0326t.jpg) (http://www.moggysdomain.com/pictures/IMAG0326.jpg)

I've got my conductive pen now and I'm going to make an attempt at a repair. The picture above didn't come out very well, I just can't get the definition to show what this looks like. There's several lines going round the outside of the bottom matrix alongside the thick one on the edge. The damage appears to be on the thick line itself or another line overlapping this thick one. From the back the damage is not visible at all.

Sorry if I'm not making this very clear, I'm trying to explain this best I can but tbh this is all new territory for me. Does anybody have any pointers on how I should try and tackle this? I'm taking a wild guess that the location of this damage is more awkward than if it had been elsewhere.