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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: rustybarnacle on Thu, 03 March 2011, 15:03:47
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Ok, first, an image for quick reference!
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15760&d=1299185864)
Does this bug anyone else? One of the (insert argument here) best built boards out there with supposedly typing nirvana for keyswitches. I need a new tenkeyless board, and why not? But!
1) Domed windows key. Really? And immediately some would say "just grab a key from [another board/this vendor/china/whatever] but then they wouldn't be the same kind of key / color / font / plastic / height / whatever. Which bugs.
2) That extra chunk o' bezel on the top of the board. Yep, purely cosmetic. Not going to affect my usable desk space in any meaningful way. Still bugs me. Check out many of the other offerings - HHKB? No weird bezel. Filco boards? Nope. The Das III? Sure, but at least it has USB ports there (and it still bugs me anyway)
Am I nuts? Is there a certain amount of "getting over it" that I need to do? Or as a persnickety keyboard user am I entitled to my weird idiosyncrasies like this? It isn't like i'm fair about it either - i'm seriously considering importing a noppoo choc mini, and I think some would agree with me that it's f%$^ ugly. But at least it doesn't do either of these 2 things.
edit: adding more rage.
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Everybody's got there own preferences. If it bugs you that much, don't get it. I prefer blank keys myself. If the domed key is a dealbreaker, so be it.
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I prefer blank keys myself.
couldn't agree more.
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Seriously, people need to get over the domed key thing. It's part of the licensing to have a Windows key at all. Therefore, necessary for any labeled keyboard that isn't explicitly for a Mac.
While you understand that a key with a diamond on it is the "Windows" key, the general buying public (you do remember them, right?) does not. To them, it isn't the windows key unless it has the windows symbol on it.
Oh, and to the OP, you can get an identical key with no label at all, or with an arbitrary label, if you look around enough. I would recommend just ordering such a key with the keyboard. If you ask nicely, EK might even let you just purchase that one key.
Now, the bezel, that's purely cosmetic. Some like it, some don't. Personally, I like to keep a pen on the top of my keyboard. This works best on the Model M, due to the lip, but any keyboard with a bezel allows it. As such, I actually like the bezel. You are welcome to dislike it, and if it stops you from getting the keyboard, that is your right.
That said, I would recommend just getting over that, if it's all that is keeping you from getting the realforce. And either ordering it blank, or get the replacement keys as well.
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It's still way smaller in form factor than a Model M Space Saver. And the other issues you get used to so I don't think they are big deals.
My only issue is I prefer the 55g model rather than variable key weighting but those don't seem available right now.
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Yeah, the Noppoo is indeed ugly - but it grows on you in time. Initially I thought the name 'Noppoo' was incredibly apt, and then its poopy goodness got me, as if I'd stepped on a piece of **** and couldn't get rid of the smell.
Absurd analogies aside, the Noppoo certainly isn't similar to the Realforce in any way but form factor, really, and even then its keyspacing is somewhat odd and takes a while to get used to if you've been typing on a full-size 'board for a while. It took me about two days to stop doing mi****s. Additionally, keep in mind that if you do decide to replace keycaps, normal Cherry MX fits might seems a little too big.
Personally I think the Realforce 86UB has a real charm to it, I love the extra bezel mainly because it differentiates it from other minimal form factor boards and retains its 'luxury' aesthetic. But that's just me.
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I actually like the domed keys and bezel. Can't please everyone! (Can someone explain that to our president?)
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Am I nuts? Is there a certain amount of "getting over it" that I need to do?
Yes and yes.
Just go for it, it's an awesome board. If you dont like it, sell on GH for a marginal loss. consider it a small price to pay for a lesson to listen to your gut next time
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BTW, you could also swap the domed Windows key for the menu key on the right, which is not domed.
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I'm almost relenting. I think if the return policy was something other than "sales final" i'd be up for giving it a whirl.
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1) Domed windows key. Really? And immediately some would say "just grab a key from [another board/this vendor/china/whatever] but then they wouldn't be the same kind of key / color / font / plastic / height / whatever. Which bugs.
2) That extra chunk o' bezel on the top of the board. Yep, purely cosmetic. Not going to affect my usable desk space in any meaningful way. Still bugs me. Check out many of the other offerings - HHKB? No weird bezel. Filco boards? Nope. The Das III? Sure, but at least it has USB ports there (and it still bugs me anyway)
The design elements you chide are not the arbitrary aesthetic of the designer/s. Domed windows keys are not meant to be looked at, they're meant to be felt when you're not looking at the keyboard. In fact it's easily argued that efficiency with a keyboard would be improved if more frequently used keys had a unique shape or feel.
The enlarged arching bezels provide more structural strength than a sharp 90deg corner in order to survive drops or bumps, and these soft corners are less likely to damage or harm anything that bumps into them as well. This isn't marketing spin, look at Cherry POS keyboards or IBM Model Ms, they have wide rounded bezels for the same reasons.
This theme is repeated in many design elements of Realforce boards, including a case surface texture that does very well at resisting dirt buildup and marking, and an extra hefty USB cable that can take a lot of threading around sharp desk edges and legs.
I'm almost relenting. I think if the return policy was something other than "sales final" i'd be up for giving it a whirl.
Ask your local Ferrari dealer for a test drive too!
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i love the domed key... why do you hate it so much?
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i love the domed key... why do you hate it so much?
I am not really sure. As my keyboard at the moment is a Das ultimate w/blues, i like my blank keys, and i like em all uniform.
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So order a set of blank keys for the realforce. I don't see why this is so hard.
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Am I nuts?
Yes
/thread
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If it bothers you that much don't get it. I personally think there's something wrong with you :)
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You know you want it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCJO9ylYUug
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So order a set of blank keys for the realforce. I don't see why this is so hard.
they have those? Holy crap - link!
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Am I nuts?
Welcome to geekhack.
You are looking at a Topre and trying to fool your mind with fake excuses not to buy it.
Go for it. And in the unlikely event you really don't like it, then get rid of it.
As it was said above, the loss will only be marginal. These boards hold their value for a while.
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I hate the extra Bezel too, that and the price are keeping me from buying one.
altho to be honest, if it wasn't for the look of it, I'd save the cash and buy one aha, I just can't justify it in my brain...
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they have those? Holy crap - link!
Click me, I'm blank (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,toprekeys&pid=pdkb400ktbn)
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Well, that isn't the full set, admittedly. But I'm pretty sure keyboardco had a blank set at one point in time.
I could be wrong about that, but I distinctly remember seeing it.
Edit: I just realized you're the OP in another thread that was asking a similar question. Short version: get the HHKB. Long version: get the HHKB and be happy.
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I have both Noppoo, HHKB and still do not know which one I prefer.
Each has their own uses for me, so I rotate them in and out depending on what I am doing.
Both are good keyboards for their respective prices.
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I do understand why many of you have burgeoning collections of boards. How can I really know unless I just...own them all.
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I do understand why many of you have burgeoning collections of boards. How can I really know unless I just...own them all.
OCD makes you own them all. It's not healty... We have issues.
You can tell we are sick when we keep something we didn't like.
But there is nothing wrong with trying them all as long as you can afford it and you don't keep the ones you don't like.
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OCD makes you own them all. It's not healty... We have issues.
You can tell we are sick when we keep something we didn't like.
But there is nothing wrong with trying them all as long as you can afford it and you don't keep the ones you don't like.
Quite often, the keeping is because we can't find a buyer. Now, buying every grey label Model M you can find under a certain price...that's a sickness. I have 3 sitting next to me at the moment, 3 more in the office, one I'm typing on, and I've sent several off as gifts or sold.
That said, the HHKB is used quite a bit, especially if people around me are asleep.
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Seriously, people need to get over the domed key thing. It's part of the licensing to have a Windows key at all. Therefore, necessary for any labeled keyboard that isn't explicitly for a Mac.
I'm aware that it's part of the licensing, but... if I buy an EnduraPro, SpaceSaver, or Customizer 104, today... I get an old-school, pre-XP Windows key - which would be contrary to even the 2003 update to the license, yet my EnduraPro was assembled 2008-03-06, IIRC.
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I'm aware that it's part of the licensing, but... if I buy an EnduraPro, SpaceSaver, or Customizer 104, today... I get an old-school, pre-XP Windows key - which would be contrary to even the 2003 update to the license, yet my EnduraPro was assembled 2008-03-06, IIRC.
Honestly, I would bet most of those keys were printed many moons ago. Also, given that Unicomp is using an old design, it likely doesn't require recertification.
I think that's the issue. A new design requires a new license. A continuation of the same design over many years, not so much.
In fact, this might be a small part of the reason there is no Unicomp mini, since it would technically be a new design (for Unicomp).
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the only way to conquer ocd is to do whatever you want to do times 1000. then after you leave the hospital you will be like ok good i got that done.
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Well I probably ended up buying the last one EK had for now. So your OCD can go somewhere else.
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Well I probably ended up buying the last one EK had for now. So your OCD can go somewhere else.
dood don't do it, u gonna make the OCD guy cry cuz OCD guy can't make up his mind.
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dood don't do it, u gonna make the OCD guy cry cuz OCD guy can't make up his mind.
too late panda..he did :frown:
ETA March 15!
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dood don't do it, u gonna make the OCD guy cry cuz OCD guy can't make up his mind.
Oh my mind is made up plenty. Pre-order an otaku leopold on ek, import a noppoo choc mini brown, and i'm also hoping to get in on the kbc poker.
take that!
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We should just put this next to the GH logo:
When in doubt! Brown or Topre!
Should solve most of the confusion...:biggrin:
Anyways, gl with your OCD..Hopefully it doesn't put you in any financial problems.
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Actually the indecisive love it when other people make up their minds for them.
That's why OCN has so many "What Keyboard Should I buy" POLLS. Despite the fact nobody ever follows them.
I don't know that this was ever really a "which keyboard to get" thread as much as it was "what do you allow to bug you about keyboards" thread. And it would seem that around here, one doesn't need to be particularly decisive. When it doubt, get em both and pawn off the one you don't like as much. Or...just keep em.
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Oh my mind is made up plenty. Pre-order an otaku leopold on ek, import a noppoo choc mini brown, and i'm also hoping to get in on the kbc poker.
take that!
FAIL! You are still going to wonder if you would have been happier with a Topre.
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FAIL! You are still going to wonder if you would have been happier with a Topre.
Dammit!
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It's 0.4 inches wider and 1.3 inches longer than comparable Filco tenkeyless. You aren't nuts, there is no need for this excess bezel whatsoever in today's keyboards.
I'm actually a bit of a bezel nazi. The only thing I don't like about my noopoo is that the front bezel is too high up (prevents me from hitting spacebar without hitting the bezel with the radial aspect of my 1st interphalangeal joint)- what would be idea is a cherry front bezel on the noopoo.
I doubt you will find any topre keyboard without this bezel though.
Oh yeah and black and black is still too dark to see on the realforce and the noopoo. Sometimes I'm trying to build some zerg basic structure and keep hitting V instead of B. Grrr.