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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 09:19:39

Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 09:19:39
Anyone knows what switch they use in their Slim-Cool line?
(http://www.man-machine.com/products/images-slimcool/slimcool-1.jpg)
Product page - Slim-Cool (http://www.man-machine.com/products/slim-cool.htm)

Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: theferenc on Sat, 05 March 2011, 09:21:52
No moving parts, eh? So the keys must not move...

Anyway, it says similar to a standard keyboard, so I would bet rubber dome membrane. Usually it will be rubber dome membrane unless it states otherwise.
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 09:36:04
Quote from: theferenc;305483
No moving parts, eh? So the keys must not move...

Anyway, it says similar to a standard keyboard, so I would bet rubber dome membrane. Usually it will be rubber dome membrane unless it states otherwise.


That's what I suspect too but not many companies offer lifetime on rubber domes. Unless the keyboard cost 20$ to build and they sell it for 200$.

Yeah, I liked the no moving parts too. It's an engineering "tour de force" to be able to get tactile feel and no moving parts. They probably use some proprietary brain radio frequencies to stimulate the feeling. Then you have the challenge to be medical friendly to make sure you don't interfere with life critical devices. LoL
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 10:05:39
I just sent an email to them. We'll see

And rubber-dome technology is much easyier to seal.
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 11:09:48
The answer from Man and Machine was rather interesting

I replied asking Clifton to name the technology they use.

Stay tuned

   ===================================================
From:  Clifton
Date:  Sat, 05 Mar 2011 11:16:43 -0500

Dear Potential Customer,

We use neither rubber domes nor mechanical switches.  
If you can let me know your application and I might be able to help.

Regards,

On 3/5/2011 11:03 I wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know what type of switches you use in the slim-cool
> keyboard. Are they rubber-dome or mechanical?
>
> If mechanical, can you tell which one you use?
>
> Regards,
>
> A potential customer.
>
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 16:14:23
More info...

>There really is no switch.  When you press the key, the design of
>the key allows the wall to collapse and snap.

   
================================
Clifton,

This is very interesting. In the description, you say "tactile" feel.

How much travel would you say the key has?

I've included a diagram of the actuation force VS distance for a
given a tactile key.

As you can see, the key can travel 4mm. The tactile bump occurs
around 1mm.

I don't expect such precise diagram back but as a guestimate how
would you say your key compare with this (length of travel and
approximate location of the bump)

Or in a more simple form, is it a short throw like a laptop
keyboard or more like a conventional keyboard?

Thanks for your time, I really appreciate.

So far, I'm still hooked ;-)

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 16:34:54 -0500 Clifton wrote:
>There really is no switch.  When you press the key, the design of
>the key allows the wall to collapse and snap.
>
>I think that some people enjoy using our keyboards all day.
>It is  a matter of preference.  It does feel different than standard
>keyboards, but it is very sensitive to the touch.
>
>Clifton
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: Culinia on Sat, 05 March 2011, 16:30:45
Flat keys are horrible imo
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 16:40:32
Quote from: Culinia;305785
Flat keys are horrible imo


Until I get more details, it's all speculation.

Let see Clifton's response to my last question.
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 16:51:03
Quote from: ripster;305779
Think of it as a rubber dome keyboard with no keys.  Or case for that matter.


Do you have any legendary ripster pic to illustrate it?
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: keyb_gr on Sat, 05 March 2011, 17:40:01
The key is the dome. Or that's how I interpret it.
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sat, 05 March 2011, 21:35:58
I haven't got confirmation yet but I think I found what we are looking at.

Wikipedia -Silicone rubber keypad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_rubber_keypad)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/Silicone_keypad_key_design.jpg)

"It is possible to vary the tactile response and travel of a key by changing the webbing design and/or the shore hardness of the silicone base material. Unusual key shapes can easily be accommodated as can key travel up to 3mm. Tactile forces can be as high as 500g depending on key size and shape."

This one is not bad either from RSP Silicone Keypad (http://www.rspinc.com/silicone-keypad-8.htm)
(http://www.rspinc.com/fck/image/rk-guide_clip_image003.jpg)

Apparently this design is good for >10 million actuations. But how much more...

So... Is this the dome you had in mind?
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: Human on Sun, 06 March 2011, 04:49:28
Quote from: BucklingSpring;305979
I haven't got confirmation yet but I think I found what we are looking at.

Wikipedia -Silicone rubber keypad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_rubber_keypad)
Show Image
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/Silicone_keypad_key_design.jpg)


"It is possible to vary the tactile response and travel of a key by changing the webbing design and/or the shore hardness of the silicone base material. Unusual key shapes can easily be accommodated as can key travel up to 3mm. Tactile forces can be as high as 500g depending on key size and shape."

This one is not bad either from RSP Silicone Keypad (http://www.rspinc.com/silicone-keypad-8.htm)
Show Image
(http://www.rspinc.com/fck/image/rk-guide_clip_image003.jpg)


Apparently this design is good for >10 million actuations. But how much more...

So... Is this the dome you had in mind?

It's it a normal silicon/rubber covered rubber dome keyboard, AKA foldable keyboard?
http://tinyurl.com/4mbkwcf (http://tinyurl.com/4mbkwcf)
(http://www.modsynergy.com/Modsynergy%20files/EumaxFold3000B-front.jpg)

Or may be it only marketed in Asia region... Feel extremely bad to type on or even press down the keys...

EDIT: Oh wait, just realise that now they fixed the base support for the keyboard and it no longer foldable... May be now it is better to type on.
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: Ekaros on Sun, 06 March 2011, 05:08:53
Don't think they can make those much better, horrible little things... Not for my taste.
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: Human on Sun, 06 March 2011, 05:23:32
Quote from: Ekaros;306074
Don't think they can make those much better, horrible little things... Not for my taste.


You might want to concern bout the EXTREME mushiness and uneven keypress(worse on those large keys due to the absent of stabiliser) first b4 worrying the effect of small keys. It felt worse than typing directly on rubber dome without case and keycaps.
Title: Man and Machine - Slim Cool - what switches?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sun, 06 March 2011, 09:35:08
Quote from: Human;306079
You might want to concern bout the EXTREME mushiness and uneven keypress(worse on those large keys due to the absent of stabiliser) first b4 worrying the effect of small keys. It felt worse than typing directly on rubber dome without case and keycaps.


I see what you say. I guess the uneven keypress would get worst with higher travel. To keep the key even, you must use low travel design.