Are those... red LED's?
i just got my reds too. Love it. It is a little more quiet than browns which I like. It feels and types amazingly. +1
I feel the spacebar is a little heavier than the browns though. Do you notice the same or is it just me?
Make a video of you typing on it and pressing keys such as Caps lock, Shift, Spacebar. So I can get an idea of what it sounds like.
No 20 second video. I hate that crap. :(
Who made you boss? Not even a 'please' thats just rude. :P
Make a video of you typing on it and pressing keys such as Caps lock, Shift, Spacebar. So I can get an idea of what it sounds like.
No 20 second video. I hate that crap. :(
if enough people ask for it, I will post a video later tonight
if enough people ask for it, I will post a video later tonight
Nice pics.
Yeah, Amazon is pretty crappy about packing. I get camera stuff rolling around in big boxes with a couple of useless air bags thrown in all the time. Same from B&H which is worse.
That logo doesn't seem to be gray.
Just got mine as well :) So far I'm liking it better than my razer blackwidow simply because there isn't a tactile bump and this helps a lot for gaming knowing that the keys are consistent. Didn't know if I would like cherry red's but so far they're amazing. I was worried that the keys would be too easy to press and there would be lots of mistakes but no problems at all. It's a real joy to type on! Build is really solid and heavy for such a small keyboard. Only complaint is the red wasd keycaps seem to be slightly bigger (they are raised a little higher) then the default keycaps. It's probably intended to be that way but maybe I put them on wrong. Either way they look pretty badass.
Just got mine as well :) So far I'm liking it better than my razer blackwidow simply because there isn't a tactile bump and this helps a lot for gaming knowing that the keys are consistent. Didn't know if I would like cherry red's but so far they're amazing. I was worried that the keys would be too easy to press and there would be lots of mistakes but no problems at all. It's a real joy to type on! Build is really solid and heavy for such a small keyboard. Only complaint is the red wasd keycaps seem to be slightly bigger (they are raised a little higher) then the default keycaps. It's probably intended to be that way but maybe I put them on wrong. Either way they look pretty badass.
now I am really torn on the next board I am going to get. I can't decide between the majestouch 2 red or the 86u. DECISIONS DECISIONS!!
Push down on them harder :)
I had the same problem, you need to push them down with a bit of force. It's a tough keyboard it can take it.
Get both!
My future purchase plan:
- Leopold Blue Tenkeyless
- Some Topre Board
- Poker
Then I'm done, I swear!
skip the blue and go for the topre =]
I havent gotten to use mine yet really. I mainly use my Unicomp Spacesaver all day because it is my work kybd.
You dont even have a Topre!
that clunk clunk clunk spacebar was a dealbreaker for me. Find a way to make it like the rest of the keys. Break it up into 2 sections if needed. :)
I have always hit the spacebar hard. Its hard for me not to.
same here but the cheap Siig brand tenkeyless rubber dome I bought actually has a nice spacebar that has a nice keyfeel and sounds like the other keys actually quieter. The clunk clunk noise and feel of the spacebar always bothered me slightly on the Filco. I hope the leopold's is different but it's not a total dealbreaker.
that clunk clunk clunk spacebar was a dealbreaker for me. Find a way to make it like the rest of the keys. Break it up into 2 sections if needed. :)
how are the reds in FPS games?? anyone play any fps games?
To the OP: Does the lack of tactility on the Reds affect your typing speed and accuracy, compared to the Browns, at all?
I actually checked this keyboard out at the store today, Hong Kong stores are stocking Filcoa now, I think Suneon is now the distributor. The red is a light switch but I can see why some people prefer it over the Browns, they sort of um.... bottom out better? I guess I've always been bothered by the distance between the pressure point and the operating point on the Browns, maybe that's the reason for the Reds (I'm still more of a Blue person, whiny pitch notwithstanding).
A Red-Topre comparison would probably tell me about the Topres now that I have a point of reference.
Quick question: for typing duties, how are the reds compared to, say, the blacks? Lighter, but how does that affect use?
I'm currently using blues, but the tactility is not always pleasing... I kind of like the blacks, but they're a bit heavy. I'm wondering if either a brown or (now) red would be more typing-friendly.
hope this helps
Man, I really want a full size red Filco now. Maybe Leopold will fulfill my desire. As I would primarily use the keyboard for FPSs I'd really need the numpad since I mouse left handed. Here's hoping.
I live in Japan.
It was a Japanese original layout, and I up-loaded the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daPmNzBJP5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6cbvHb5N0
This keyboard is the best in the linear keyboard after which I felt in the past. XD
Your typing is really loud. I don't think I have ever got my reds to make that type of noise so far.
I don't think that's actually the reason. It's just that the camera makes it worse. I made a video too, and it sounds much louder played on the camera than it actually is in real life.
In real life its very soft and soothing.
If you already have a mech 'board you're happy with I'd say monitor.
Then you can treat yourself to the red switches later as a reward for making the right choice.
I agree, nice video! I've just seen this now and the Filco with reds looks and sounds absolutely lovely.
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from purchasing a product EK no longer distributes (FILCO), but why would someone want Reds over Blues or Browns for RTS games?
The linear switch is an advantage for FPS games or activities where you visually confirm each action (firing a weapon) on a millisecond basis, but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die. With tactile switches you don't even need to look at the screen, you know from your finger reaching the point of tactility that your command has been sent and you can move on to the next screen or set of actions; i.e. starcraft.
Blues, Reds, Browns, Blacks....... The only solution is to get 1 of each.
Blues, Reds, Browns, Blacks....... The only solution is to get 1 of each.
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from purchasing a product EK no longer distributes (FILCO), but why would someone want Reds over Blues or Browns for RTS games?
The linear switch is an advantage for FPS games or activities where you visually confirm each action (firing a weapon) on a millisecond basis, but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die. With tactile switches you don't even need to look at the screen, you know from your finger reaching the point of tactility that your command has been sent and you can move on to the next screen or set of actions; i.e. starcraft.
but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die. With tactile switches you don't even need to look at the screen, you know from your finger reaching the point of tactility that your command has been sent and you can move on to the next screen or set of actions; i.e. starcraft.
The linear switch is an advantage for FPS games or activities where you visually confirm each action (firing a weapon) on a millisecond basis, but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die.
A good gamer doesn't need any kind of tactility to be consistent with key presses.
Also while playing a fast RTS like Strarcraft 2 you won't feel the tactility of the browns, so basically the red is a better overall gaming switch.
So you're inferring that tactility adversely affects performance? Is this an opinion or can you technically back it up?
Wait, I've got a ten-key keyboard :(
Could you please elaborate? Personally, for gaming, I don't feel there's an inherent advantage to any single switch over the other, including FPS games. What's most important is having a switch you are comfortable with and does not fatigue you.
Is there a technically measurable difference between actuation speed between any of the cherry switches? There's nothing that I've been able to personally perceive so far, having tried all three switches. I'm using blues right now, blacks were too stiff (especially the space bar), and I have a Leopold with browns on order. I didn't use blacks for long, but that's because, to me, and to most people, they required too much force.
When you're playing an FPS game, every extra frame, bit of mouse sensitivity, and reduction in latency = the difference between life or death in certain situations. So, to maximize your potential to make the most of every situation, you need the best tool for the job. No; from top to bottom, linear switches cannot be pressed in faster succession than a tactile switch, but near the point of actuation, a linear switch has finer control of when the actuation occurs.
Linear switch in-game:
Advantage: precision control of actuation timing and repetition
Disadvantage: you must SEE the actuation has occurred on-screen *
* Gorillas need not repeat their "gamers just bottom-out" mantra; they might as well use a $10 membrane board and pound away. There's little advantage to a mechanical if you're too cool to learn how to make the most of it.
Tactile switches in-game:
Advantage: No visual confirmation of actuation required **
Disadvantage: Tactility limits precision of actuation timing and repetition (hysteresis in blues)
** I.E. move to a part of a starcraft map, toss out 20 keystrokes worth of commands, and move to the next part of the map with confidence that all 20 keystrokes were sent - if you had used linear switches and were in a hurry, you might have pressed 1 of 20 switches just .1mm shy of the point of actuation and you would not know it. Doh!
Splitting hairs? Probably, but if gaming is your priority, then you might want the tool which gives you the most potential advantage. Pros learn how to use their tools to the most advantage. To say a switch fits your "personal preference" can be a declaration of confidence or an admission of complacency; it all depends on the users knowledge and determination.
From an FPS standpoint, there probably is no advantage strictly based on whether you use a rubber dome or a mechanical switch.
What matters is:
1. Key Rollover: 5 or higher is probably fine for an FPS
2. Desk space: 10keyless or smaller
3. Feel/comfort: something you are happy with
4. Keystroke consistency
...because you asked people not to "repeat their "gamers just bottom-out" mantra, but I think most, if not all, FPS players bottom out....
Regarding Linear vs Tactile switches in games:
Whether a switch is audible or not is irrelevant as hard core and pro gamers are using headphones and listening to in game sounds, not their keyboards. Muscle memory knows the amount of distance required to activate whatever switch type they are using. Most users will probably bottom out, but whether they do nor not is irrelevant, as, so long as your muscles have memorized where that activation point is, the hypothetically finer precision in the exact point of activation of a linear vs a tactile switch becomes irrelevant. It's simply a matter of whether you are consistently able to activate it in a repeatable and predictable fashion or not. This is my experience with FPS games.
I have been lurking for quite a while in these boards, and recently ordered a board with Cherry Reds. I do a lot of gaming like a lot of the previous posters do, and made my decision on a board...not based on theory.
I have been reading the opinions of various people on what they believe is the best or ideal switch for any one particular genre, and although there are a multitude of very in depth and technical posts being presented, it seems that some don't realize that two different arguments can actually co-exist and be correct in their own environments.
For anyone trying to find an ideal, in all honesty, you have to try it first. I see how this can be difficult based on availability or funds, but the fact is that from personal preference, to physics, to your own reflexes, different boards are going to work for different people. IMO, no one particular switch is better than others as long as you find what fits you best based on what you are capable of doing.
Gaming, at a competitive level, is reactive. Reactions are not always going to be controlled. This is a fact not based on opinion or theory, its simply based on the varying speeds in which a person has to react. Earlier someone mentioned that all FPS players bottom out, with arguments that perhaps that shouldn't be necessary if you mastered your tool. FPS, RTS or otherwise, bottoming out can and will happen depending on the circumstances in which you are performing X action. No person, short of being a robot, can ever be 100 percent controlled or 100 percent twitchy, its always a mixture of both based on experience, ergonomics, and situational awareness. The day we stop being a chemical machine is the day we can train ourselves to be 100% accurate in anything.
All that said, the following is simply my opinion based on what my fingers told me:
MX Blue: Its lovely to type on because its interactive. The clickiness however, wears off after a while when you get used to it and eventually want the option of quiet.
MX Brown: Popular for a reason, its like its the switch for indecisive people since it gives you the best of both worlds. A bit of tactility and noise when you type, and the feeling that you triggered something when you game. Its actually the first switch I ever tried on a mechanical (not counting buckling spring when i was little) and I still like it.
MX Black: I dont have bear paws, and my grip can't turn coal into diamonds, so I do experience fatigue when using these. Not my favorite. If you have tiger claws though, I can see why these wouldnt be an issue. A friend of mine has bony fingers and he loves his black switches.
MX Reds: Just right for me, because I game more than I type and from what I have tested, they really are not so light that touching them will cause them to actuate.
Have not tried anything else.
Blues @ work, Browns @ home (soon to be replaced by a Majestouch-2 Cherry Red tomorrow) <--- excited :)
diatec has a white version with reds (us ascii) listed on their site now. No pictures yet. Just thought i would mention it in case anyone was holding out for a white version.
majestouch linear r limited edition [redswitch/tenkeyless/us ascii/white] (http://diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=749)
My initial post in this thread concerns the merits of one mechanical switch over another for gaining an advantage in a particular type of game. 1-4 above are preferences you and many others require as basic, but these are standard features of many mech boards...and perhaps these points illustrate what it takes to go from 0-95% skilled, but I specifically made an example of the last 5% it takes for perfection; when 0.1mm causes a failure of 1 in 20 keystrokes.
But with mechanicals you don't need to bottom-out. Master the tool and you *could* have an edge on your opponent. People are constantly finding new ways to get an edge - some people already have. I'm not selling you anything here, there are real differences between how these switches work. You can be a jaded pro-gamer if it pleases your ego, but as my wise old junior-high PE teacher once told me, "there is no standing still in life, you're either getting ahead, or you're falling behind"
Your muscle memory is imperfect; moreso as you tire and become stressed or distracted. The example I gave about 1 in 20 keypresses is very much a possibility. Gradually increasing resistance aside, linear switches feel the same all-the-way-down, so the less accurate your muscle memory is, the more work your eyes need to do confirming your actions.
If you still disagree that this can have no bearing in any game at any point in time then I'm rather confused as to why you're even asking for me to elaborate as you've already made up your mind!
True, but again, it's all personal preferences. I spam every command when playing SC and bottom out hard, never had any problems with not reaching the point of actuation, not even on my old steelseries blacks. Think about all the rubber domes, they have no tactility whatsoever, pros do just fine.
** I.E. move to a part of a starcraft map, toss out 20 keystrokes worth of commands, and move to the next part of the map with confidence that all 20 keystrokes were sent - if you had used linear switches and were in a hurry, you might have pressed 1 of 20 switches just .1mm shy of the point of actuation and you would not know it. Doh!
Rubber domes have a serious tactility.
Scissors even MORE. From the new "All About Scissor Switch Wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Scissor+Switches&redirect=no)".Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15978&stc=1&d=1299699976)
These diagrams don't tell anything, why bother showing them. Scissors technically are tactile, but it's not the same thing as what you'll find in buckling spring or Cherry MXs obviously - everyone who has a laptop knows this, it's a digital feel, 1 or 0, nothing in between, you either press the key hard enough to actuate it, or the key doesn't move at all.
Not including touch interfaces, as far as I know switches are either linear or tactile. If it's linear, there is a constant increase in force as you push the switch down. If it's tactile, there's a a change in the amount of force required, which can be felt as a bump. That diagram clearly shows the change in force that results in a "bump" that can be felt, and thus a tactile switch. They also indicate force required. I consider them very relevant.
The diagrams don't lie and are especially relevant in a Linear Red MX switch thread. What this chart leaves out is that obnoxious final spike as you bottom out a Cherry Red (which you WILL do).Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11347&stc=1&d=1277344560)
you might be right, I'm not in the best position to talk about rubber domes since I haven't typed on one in years, I tend to remember them as being duller versions of cherry browns.
The only non mechanical I own is a wireless apple keyboard which I believe is just scissors - no tactility, I play starcraft on it sometimes and it's totally acceptable.
HTF have you literally gone YEARS without typing on a rubber dome? I call shens, unless you're one of those people that never leave your house.
Wait.. you play starcraft? Ok this changes things
Just ordered 1 from Amazon. I already have one that has been shipped by the keyboard co from england, but who knows when it will get here. It shows being turned over to the USPS a week ago, and yet USPS still has it as "being prepared for shipment." Whatever, I'll have 2 :P
Someone needs buy the last one before I get tempted.
I really want the newer white version when/if it becomes available.
I was talking to Comrade Panda - he has no class either.
I am double glad it was US Only. Having Canadians own one would definitely make me feel less leet.
Long live brother stalin!
I would have impulse bought one if those Amazon wretches would ship north of the border!
...in a way, they've done me a favour.
@thirdkind - would you say it's as nice as typing on clouds of boobs?
Well, on the few occasions in my life during which I had access to clouds of boobs, I wasn't concerned with typing, so I can't really say for sure.
Probably.
oh sorry for multi-posting, but its probably because im not too good of a typist and i pretty much always bottom out my keys, but these keys are really fricken loud... my roommate woke up once and I felt really bad. the spacebar in particular is very loud *slow touch typing into progress.
another thing the rubber soles on the bottom are uneven so i had to add a layer of tape on one of the rubber soles to stop the wobbling -_- any other fixes for this issue?
HTF have you literally gone YEARS without typing on a rubber dome? I call shens, unless you're one of those people that never leave your house.
Wait.. you play starcraft? Ok this changes things
Well, on the few occasions in my life during which I had access to clouds of boobs, I wasn't concerned with typing, so I can't really say for sure.
Probably.
I've been flying through e-mails and IMs all morning on this thing. Just an amazing keyboard. Glad I bought two.
Are the reports on the Blacks' high resistance hyperbole? I think I'm going to try one. If they're light enough on first touch to feel nice, but provide enough resistance to prevent bottoming out, I might like them even better.
I've been flying through e-mails and IMs all morning on this thing. Just an amazing keyboard. Glad I bought two.
Are the reports on the Blacks' high resistance hyperbole? I think I'm going to try one. If they're light enough on first touch to feel nice, but provide enough resistance to prevent bottoming out, I might like them even better.
i happen to be a subject matter expert; and after receiving my board yesterday i can absolutely confirm it is without a doubt like typing on a cloud of boobs.
The blacks are noticeably heavier than the reds. They're not unpleasant, and you don't need to bottom out on them. I think the space bar on my old G80 is a grey, so it's heavier still, but I don't know what's in the current bunch of black boards.
If you can't bottom out on blacks, you have girly fingers.
You'd have extremely girly fingers. I have relatively girlyman hands, and I found that bottoming out on blacks was almost too easy. Though that might be because the boards is 20+ year old, or because I'm too used to bottoming out after using rubber dome for years.
Good video noodles, once Amazon gets these back in stock I'll be making my return to a mechanical keyboard. I regret ever selling my previous one.
it's plastic, it gets shiny, it's physical fact, dude...
some are better quality than others...
You mean like this?Show Image(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5149457816_b24e615bfa_z.jpg)
Filco 104 red are now available at Amazon.
Links are in the WW Shopping Wiki.
How did you pull up the 97 number?
rickrolling is sooooooooo..... Old. Saxroll is the new rickroll.Show Image(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/632/saxguy120.gif)
Do you think his name is REALLY Sergey Stepanov?
You mean like this?Show Image(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5149457816_b24e615bfa_z.jpg)
That's OK, I'd rather make my money off of AAPL. It's SO EASSSSSYYYY and I don't even have to pay taxes because of the Bush tax cuts including a Capital Gains Zero Tax loophole.
I talked to my CPA yesterday and this is me.Show Image(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5044/5330525104_48a2ced03a_z.jpg)
Nice ESC key, where'd you pick up the silver 4/2?
Bloody hell. I ordered the one from amazon because I thought the one from London would get held up in customs again for a month. The one from amazon came yesterday. The one from KBC came today :p I checked with USPS this morning and it still said waiting for origin to ship bull****. Now I gotta figure out what to do with the second one sooner than I had planned.
Haha. I was hoping to find a way to get it to someone who would not necessarily have a chance to get it otherwise. But who knows?
Our last giveaway was pretty hilarious. Free Topre Realforce 55g (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9177) I don't think the winner ever posted again.
And then this one was a guy who successfully begged for a free keyboard. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9177)
But then, I'm no Socialist, I'm American.
The filco with reds is still petty loud imo, definatley louder then a topre. Especially if you bottom out alot.
Dog eat your reds?
DAMNIT MAN !!! I thought I had it it settled that browns would be my next switch purchase. Now I'm back to having to decide. A few things here have got me thinking reds are the best choice ( can someone confirm or deny this understanding and logic ? )
I like the blues alot for typing.
I love the feel of the blacks but they feel too heavy to me now after typing on the blues for only a week or so.
I understand from many that the browns tactility is so light as to almost feel non existant (making it feel more like a gritty travel rather than click)
I play alot of FPS games mainly
I love the bottoming out sound (THWACK) of the above videos and the blacks I have.
So ...... Since I already have blues for the tactility which I like. I don't mind the click of the blues but like the fuller bottoming out CLACK a little better and the smoothness of the blacks.....
I should probably go with Reds....
Thoughts ?
If I go read I'll want a Filco , but Amazon seems to only be offering it in black.