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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: rustybarnacle on Thu, 10 March 2011, 16:45:05
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Am I the only one who uses ESDF rather than WASD (thus keeping my left hand on the home row and giving me more keys to use near my left hand)? I find myself wondering why I can't get lavender ESDF key caps. I suppose I should content myself with different colored blanks (and I do) but surely there are others who are ESDF believers. Or do I sound like the kind of guy that should be typing on a datahand too?
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I would say one key away from the home row isn't too much of a compromise, but your remark do make me wonder why not ESDF to start with. My take is that it WASD makes accessing the surrounding function keys raiser, i.e. shift, ctrl ,alt.
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I'm an ESDF believer :-)
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I would say one key away from the home row isn't too much of a compromise, but your remark do make me wonder why not ESDF to start with. My take is that it WASD makes accessing the surrounding function keys raiser, i.e. shift, ctrl ,alt.
I agree. Why wasn't it esdf from the beginning? And it does make the shift/ctrl/caps/tab keys closer, but keyboards were designed with being able to hit those keys with the fingers on the home row! /rant
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I've considered moving over to ESDF a couple of times since like you said your left hand stays right on home row. It makes much more sense.
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Thought I was alone, ESDF is just easier when you need to transition to typing.
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The nub on the F key irritates me.
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ESDF for life!
http://use-esdf.org/
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I used to use ESDF when I played WoW so I had more buttons to macro. But it felt weird when I played FPS so I just went back to WASD after I quit WoW.
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I use QWES, that's probably more uncommon than ESDF.
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Alt-f4!
or f10 for god mode
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No. You're not the only one.
I'll admit to having used WASD in the past, but that was before I had my first taste of Tribes 2. Then I saw the benefits for a game with that many binds...
(I sure wish ArmA did the same. That game takes up the whole damn keyboard in binds.)
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I used in ESDF for the longest time back in CS days. Now I have assimilated into the WASD, plus the different colored keycaps for them makes it all the better.
You guys should try to get keycaps for ESDF, I think that would be cool.
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i would totally switch to esdf if my current fps of choice werent tf2. so few binds for me that i dont feel like changing anything now.
the next computer i get when i completely reinstall everything and such i will most likely start using it. i dont even use ctrl for anything anymore, so reaching that isnt even an issue (use shift for crouch, and even in sc2 use shift 99% of the time, only ctrl when i need to remove something from a group)
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I use ASD. I picked it up many years ago from a fellow gamer at the office, and it just works so well.
I have tried moving over to SDF, but eventually went back. For one thing, I'd rather not overload my pinky with extra functions. For another, I got tired of having to remap key functions every time I started a new game or tried a demo.
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I've been using ESDF for 6 months or so now and I couldn't be happier. I've tried to use WASD for a few times and it just doesn't feel natural anymore. Just like ESDF was in the beginning.
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I tried it once but for some reason went back to WASD, might give it another go now that you've reminded me of it though.
And I support the idea of coloured ESDF caps, they're probably relatively easily accessible already, I just don't know where.
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I tried it, but found the positioning of the left-side keys awkward. Went back to WASD.
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You need to give it some time. Just like learning anything new, it won't come naturally instantly.
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@mooremanifestation, I've been using ASDF since Unreal Tournament came out. I found that splitting forwards/backwards between two fingers improved my reaction time. Here's the mapping:
A = left
S = back
D = fwd
F = right
I can chord movements much quicker b/c I don't have to lift my middle finger.
What's the mapping with RtClk ASD?
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To be honest, i don't think the advantage of ESDF is that significant as WASD are pretty much right next to them. The minor difference is only in our "Head", and the truth is we can get used to either one without really impacting the "ergonomic" aspect of it (if there is any to speak of). It is not like you are talking about ESDF vs. say UHJK
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No, the point, for me anyway, is that ESDF gives more keys to the left than WASD.
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No, the point, for me anyway, is that ESDF gives more keys to the left than WASD.
Question is; how many of those keys do you need? This is something people should ask themselves before considering a switch.
This all depends on which games each individual play and how they play them.
And which mouse they use; a Naga user probably won't need a lot of extra keys on the keyboard.
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You guys should try to get keycaps for ESDF, I think that would be cool.
And I support the idea of coloured ESDF caps, they're probably relatively easily accessible already, I just don't know where.
All of the "Gamer kits" in the Double shot replacements ROUND THREE (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13664) mass order contain ESDF:
Gamer kits (Orange, Red, Blue on White, White on Blue, Darkblue)- W, A, S, D, E, F, R, G
- R for Colemak (ASDFG-row)
- maybe additional Dvorak keys for normal WASD-position,
if there is some demand in that set (see Round 3 main-poll).
- 4 arrows (cursor keys)
- FORWARD (FORWRD, or FORTH, or FORW), BACK, LEFT, RIGHT (cursor keys)
- FIRE and 'arrow up' for POS or Terminal-boards (cursor cross)
- ESCAPE, GEEK HACK, PANIC, ANY KEY, 'WASD with arrows'
It's not too late to get your orders in! See the first three posts in that thread for catalog, voting instructions and prices (respectively).
This aspect of the gamer kits is actually what interested me in round three to begin with, since round one only came with WASD. However now that the Commodore key has been added it's all over for my wallet:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15977&d=1299693906)
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Awesome, I did know about the group buy, but I'm not sure how it works regarding payment, shipping etc.
Not that I read it very thoroughly, so I'll take another look and see if it makes sense.
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Question is; how many of those keys do you need? This is something people should ask themselves before considering a switch.
This all depends on which games each individual play and how they play them.
And which mouse they use; a Naga user probably won't need a lot of extra keys on the keyboard.
I agree, maybe not all of them. But even then it gives more choice as to which you use, and/or allows for duplicating some keys. Also, it makes more sense for the little finger to get lots of keys than the forefinger, since it's not involved in movement. Of course it depends what you play, but I can't think why ESDF would be particularly worse than WASD for any game.
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True, I wouldn't say it's any worse, it's about whether or not it's worth adapting to it from WASD that's the big point here. If WASD is sufficient you will most likely get no benefits from ESDF, but you'll have to adapt to it as well as edit the keybindings in most games.
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Well... the ESDF appreciation society would say it's the defaults in most games that are a major part of the 'problem'! :-)
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Prompting which layout you want to use at first start or install would be a nice feature, a lot of people who might prefer ESDF, or other layouts, instead of WASD simply don't know about them.
You could say that if they needed ESDF they'd either look it up or configure it all by themselves, but truth is a lot of people don't think that far. I know several people with that mindset, they'd think "all games use WASD, therefore that is the only one. If I could use more easily accessible keys all I can do is whine about it."
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meh too hard to use ctrl, alt, and shift
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meh too hard to use ctrl, alt, and shift
Then you, sir, have tiny girl fingers.
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Then you, sir, have tiny girl fingers.
Then you, sir, have a tiny girl brain.
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(http://images.mocpages.com/user_thumbnails/jrclark@aol.com/www.brickshelf.com_gallery_jrickclark_Structures_boxing-ring_01-boxing.jpg_SPLASH.jpg)
Get ready for round 2....... FIGHT!
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Not fists...
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QNpnHJgKSPc/TCJwwerhYdI/AAAAAAAAACE/COXIWhtJ6lI/s1600/yhst-19702657489155_2107_152242714.jpg)
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Then you, sir, have a tiny girl brain.
Then you, sir, have a tiny girl face.
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meh too hard to use ctrl, alt, and shift
I find using alt is still comfortable, but ctrl would be pretty awkward indeed. I've just started using some other key instead of ctrl since I moved to esdf.
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Mash CTRL with your palm.
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Bind CTRL to Capslock.
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Bind CTRL to Capslock.
this.
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I map forward to RtClk, and ASD are the defaults. Mapping forwards/backwards to separate fingers, or separate hands in my case definitely seems to help. I have my right hand dedicated to basic movement & shooting, and my left hand handles everything else.
@mooremanifestation, I've been using ASDF since Unreal Tournament came out. I found that splitting forwards/backwards between two fingers improved my reaction time. Here's the mapping:
A = left
S = back
D = fwd
F = right
I can chord movements much quicker b/c I don't have to lift my middle finger.
What's the mapping with RtClk ASD?
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ESDF is what I would ever use if I didn't use the arrow keys, enter, right shift, the numpad, page up, page down, etc. I've gotten used to the feel of their locations so finding them with my fingers is a piece of cake with the right board. I like to have a tactile reference point. The F key with it's bump would make a suitable substitute for my setup .. maybe someday.