geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: RiGS on Sun, 13 March 2011, 19:45:32
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An Italian inventor, Andrea Rossi submitted his "Energy Catalyzer" reactor, which burns hydrogen in a nickel catalyst, for examination by scientists at the University of Bologna and The INFN (Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics).
The test was organized by Dr. Giuseppe Levi of INFN and the University of Bologna and was assisted by other members of the physics and chemistry faculties. This result was achieved without the production of any measurable nuclear radiation.
The magnitude of this result suggests that there is a viable energy technology that uses commonly available materials, that does not produce carbon dioxide, and that does not produce radioactive waste and will be economical to build.
http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2011/01/25/cold-fusion-from-italy-updated/ (http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2011/01/25/cold-fusion-from-italy-updated/)
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LeviGreportonhe.pdf (http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LeviGreportonhe.pdf)
I'm not surprised that the information on this invention was witheld from the general public by the mainstream media.
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There isn't clear explanation of working principle...
What happens to hydrogen? What it turns in? How this all is suppoused to work.
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There are two possibilities.
The first is that this is an improved hydrogen fuel cell. That would be nice for electric cars, but otherwise unexciting.
The second is that, although it doesn't involve any neutrons, it's still cold fusion.
Remember cold fusion? Hydrogen being adsorbed by palladium, and releasing quantities of energy that implied a nuclear reaction was taking place? Pons and Fleischmann?
And then there were reports that the Japanese were doing the same thing, but with nickel instead of palladium? And other claims that a similar level of energy release was obtained, but with no evidence of a nuclear reaction?
Of course the mainstream media doesn't report new discoveries that appear to violate the laws of physics. When the mainstream scientific community looks into them, and appears to be taking them seriously, then is the time for the exciting news story.
Something strange really and truly found in a physics lab - that's news.
Crackpot says he's found antigravity, or turned lead into gold, or can talk to plants - that's not news.
Crackpot thinks the major newspapers are picking on him, because they're ignoring his great discovery, his wonderful insight? Also not news - kooks are a dime a dozen, as one can see from USENET.
Maybe it will turn out that there is something to this cold fusion business. If so, however, those working on it will have to, on their own, develop it enough so that it clearly and unmistakably works before they can go forward and attract outside attention... and investment.
For obvious reasons.
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"How does your wonderful device work?"
"We don't really know, and we won't tell you either, but we'll sell them. Here's our e-mail address."
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I would think most realistic possibility is it being some sort of chemical reaction, which releases heat, also their figures might be doubtfull...
Perpetual motion machines has long been made, one with not very much testing is just one more.
Also, does it net more energy than the running and production of hydrogen?
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There is a real University of Bologna. It even has a claim to fame: it's been operating continuously since 1088, making it the world's longest-running University.
Its motto is Alma Mater Studiorum.
However, the original post notes that Andrea Rossi submitted his invention for examination by scientists there; and they found it wasn't radioactive. That doesn't say that they found that it actually produces energy.
In fact, this is real (http://pesn.com/2011/01/17/9501746_Focardi-Rossi_10_kW_cold_fusion_prepping_for_market/); there is an Andrea Rossi in Italy, and he does claim to have an invention related to cold fusion.
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That pesn.com website (Pure Energy Systems Network) is not the best reference... It is full of allegedly novel generators, free energy collectors and perpetual motion machines.
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That pesn.com website (Pure Energy Systems Network) is not the best reference... It is full of allegedly novel generators, free energy collectors and perpetual motion machines.
It was aired on the Greek national TV.
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It's all Greek to me.
It's strange that it gets aired, it isn't the first of April yet...
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It's all Greek to me.
There is an english summary in the description.
Here is the full english subbed video on the Bologna University Test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L4JUJhkpc3I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L4JUJhkpc3I)
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Very doubtful of it, not disclosing the principle, might be true, might be serious hoax. Have to wait and see...
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This seems legit.
There are many sources just google.
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This seems legit.
That depends what you mean by "legit".
Yes, there is a real person who thinks he's invented a cold fusion device.
He even got a prestigious university to test it, to determine that it doesn't give off radiation.
That, of course, in no way whatever attaches any credibility to the claim that it does produce energy. If genuine scientists at a major university had verified that, then this would be big news indeed.
The fact that the mainstream media haven't been fooled by a cute scheme to appropriate the credibility of the University of Bologna in the public's mind on behalf of an "alternate energy" device is not some plot of suppression on their part; it's an entirely natural and responsible refusal to let themselves be used and manipulated.
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These the same Greeks that created the Greek National Debt Perpetual Motion Machine?
Read this: Beware of Greeks bearing bonds (http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010?currentPage=all) Long but revealing.
Rossi's stunt I´ll comment this way:
Project p;
if(p.hasNotBeenPeerReviewed()){
HopeToGetMonies = true;
PublicityStunt ps = new PublicityStunt();
ps.initPressConference(HopeToGetMonies, p);
}
else {
whineAboutTheEstablishmentNotAcceptingYourGroundbreakingFindings();
p.getForgottenByMainstream();
List<Crackpot> c = p.getCrackpotFollowers();
while(1)
c.spreadOnTheInternetAsHiddenTruth(p);
}
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That depends what you mean by "legit".
Yes, there is a real person who thinks he's invented a cold fusion device.
He even got a prestigious university to test it, to determine that it doesn't give off radiation.
That, of course, in no way whatever attaches any credibility to the claim that it does produce energy. If genuine scientists at a major university had verified that, then this would be big news indeed.
The fact that the mainstream media haven't been fooled by a cute scheme to appropriate the credibility of the University of Bologna in the public's mind on behalf of an "alternate energy" device is not some plot of suppression on their part; it's an entirely natural and responsible refusal to let themselves be used and manipulated.
Also it's not nuclear energy by some claims. Also the person in question don't exactly know what is going on... Somewhat fishy...
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This seems legit.
There are many sources just google.
(http://rationalsecurity.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/12/15/internettruth.jpg)
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This seems legit.
(http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/3560/freecandy.jpg) (http://img863.imageshack.us/i/freecandy.jpg/)
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Oops, sorry. What ever was I thinking?
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9160/freeenergy.jpg) (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/freeenergy.jpg/)
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This seems legit.
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I believe that even if someone ever does create a device/reaction that produces more energy than was put in, the explanation will eventually be that more energy was resident in the reaction than we previously understood.
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I'm just happy to know that all I need is this much tin foil to prevent energy (or sub-atomic particles of any kind) escaping or contaminating my experiments. Does the IAEA know about tin foil? If so, why are the world's nuclear plants not insulated with this stuff?
(http://newenergyandfuel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Rossi-Focardi-Energy-Catalyst-Reactor.jpg)
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Is that a metal leg replacement for a giant fairy?
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I believe that even if someone ever does create a device/reaction that produces more energy than was put in, the explanation will eventually be that more energy was resident in the reaction than we previously understood.
Yes, that is true enough.
That's why we don't regard Enrico Fermi as another Italian inventor of a phoney perpetual motion machine.
There may be other undiscovered sources of energy. But for every real undiscovered source of energy that gets found, there will be a thousand false starts.
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http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.energypress.gr%2Fportal%2Fresource%2FcontentObject%2Fid%2Fe7cf318d-06b8-414a-8183-54af3baf5897&sl=el&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
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Read this: Beware of Greeks bearing bonds (http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010?currentPage=all) Long but revealing.
I will not invest in Greek energy companys for a very long time.
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I will not invest in Greek energy companys for a very long time.
These are produced in the US.
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http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.energypress.gr%2Fportal%2Fresource%2FcontentObject%2Fid%2Fe7cf318d-06b8-414a-8183-54af3baf5897&sl=el&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
"... for the whole world except the United States" I guess I won't need to care, then, because I cant have any. Thanks a lot, Grease.
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Read this: Beware of Greeks bearing bonds (http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010?currentPage=all) Long but revealing.
Holy Carp[tm].
(http://www.fv-blog.de/bilder/karpfen_fischereiverein_ulm_1.jpg)
I knew it was bad, but...
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http://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.consulente-energia.com%2Ffusione-fredda-scoperta-invenzione-andrea-rossi-focardi-come-funziona-reattore-apparato-catalizzatore-di-energia-kw.html
http://pesn.com/2011/03/17/9501791_Welcome_Worry-Free_Nuclear_Power--Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/mar/17/nuclear-future-beyond-japan/
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3126617.ece
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Here (http://pesn.com//2011/03/24/9501795_Andrea_Rossi_with_Sterling_Allan_on_Coast_to_Coast_AM/transcript.htm) is a recent interview with the inventor Andrea Rossi.
It's starting around at 9 minutes or so.
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Hippy girls are the best.
Maybe as girlfriend... Not the best mothers though.
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Hey, but von Däniken was right about the Ark of the Covenant! If you leave a big capacitor lying around in dry air, it _will_ accumulate a charge. Not really a practical source of energy, though... and I think I'd rather leave Wilhelm Reich out of it too (not to mention Pyramid Power), if you don't mind.
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be skeptical is fine but there are people who do not believe that it is a fraud and are not just ordinary people who say this.
Cold Fusion Back In The Limelight - Guest Speaker Dr. Brian Josephson
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427
Brian David Josephson. The Nobel Prize in Physics 1973
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1973/josephson-cv.html
http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/
OOOOooooooo. Tesla and other crazy people.
Tesla was a genius, inventor, mechanical engineer and electrical engineer. Try to imagine a world that knows no alternating current.
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Tesla coil. Faraday cage.
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Edison should have won the AC/DC battle.
Edison used sneaky and underhanded techniques to try to win, like associating AC with the electric chair.
And AC was better! Nowadays, we have HVDC transmission lines, thanks to advanced solid-state technology, but with the technology of the time, AC was vastly superior because transformers - not motor-generators with moving parts, needing constant maintenance - could convert electricity to higher voltages.
This was vitally important because it allows more energy to be transmitted with less current - so Ohm's Law is working for you, instead of against you, and electricity can be transmitted with acceptable losses over ordinary wires, instead of expensive giant rods of copper.
Had the United States gone with direct current, it would have turned itself into an industrial backwater.
Unfortunately, while Tesla was a genius in the early part of his career, sometimes the line between genius and madness can be thin - and too many people don't see the distinction, and waste time with hopes that Tesla left behind secrets of power broadcasting, death rays, or antigravity or whatever.
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Flying cars here we come.
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lol
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I've quoted the relevant part of the interview.
G: We are going live to Italy right now. Andrea Rossi is with us who has perfected this incredible device. Hello Andrea. How are you?
A: Very well. Hello to you and thank you very much for calling me.
G: Tell me a little bit about your system.
A. Yes. It is a module which has a power of about ten kilowatts. It works making a reaction of nickel and hydrogen and that reaction of that. More energy is produced from the output in respect to the energy that is fed to the module. So that due to the first and second of thermodynamics necessarily we have in this case a nuclear reaction. You know I am not so prone to call it cold fusion I prefer to call it Low energy nuclear Reactions, but in any case we have a source of energy which is clean, quite cheap, and which does not leave radioactive waste.
G: What is your vision for it's use? Would we have it for homes, businesses, what would we do with it?
A. Well, good question. In the short term necessarily it will be just an industrial use to produce heat and power. In the longer term I suppose that it would be really also for household use. But in this last case there are difficulties to overcome for what concerns the certifications said to get all the necessary authorizations to go in a home. You can easily understand there is a big difference between putting a plant in an industry or in a site where there are skilled persons to control it and to put them in a house where not necessarily there is a skilled person to use it. So it will take more time to go in the households while in October we will setup the first one megawatt plant in an industry.
G: How much would a unit cost for industry?
A. Well, the cost I can give you a cost per kilowatt of power installed. Leonardo Corporation... first of all let me say that this stuff is made in the USA. Because....
G: At least something will be made here in this country. It has been a long time.
A. In this wonderful country we produce everything good. This is one more product that will be made in the United States. And the exception will be in Greece and the Balkans where we have given a license of manufacturing. The cost at the moment the cost which is a subject to degrees as usually happens with an increase in the scale of production. But in any case the cost is around 2000 dollars per kilowatt installed so for example a one megawatt plant has a cost of production which is around 2 million dollars. A one megawatt power plant which means a plant that is capable of producing one thousand kilowatt hours per hour. I assume you also want to know the cost of the energy produced. The energy produced has a cost of about 1 cent of dollar per kilowatt hour.
G: That is almost nothing.
S: Utah has the cheapest power around the world just about and it is 4 cents per kilowatt hour wholesale.
G: Not bad at all. Andrea, what kind of fuel does it consume?
A: Yes. First of all, Thank you very much for how you are speaking English. You are really helping me speaking that way, because I can understand you perfectly. The fuel is made by nickel powder which is a powder of nickel metal and hydrogen.
G: Is that expensive to use and is it readily available?
A. The nickel powder costs about 20 dollars per kilogram which is 10 dollars or something around nine dollars per pound and hydrogen you know perfectly how much that costs. And you consider that producing ten kilowatt hours the consumption is around one gram of hydrogen per day. When I say day I mean a twenty four hours. And about one hundred grams of nickel powder in a period of about six months.
G: Every time when someone develops what could be alternative energy something happens either a big corporation tries to buy them and bury it or they get threatened, they get scared, they stop working on their projects. Has that ever occurred to you? Have you been forced to try and stop? Have they wanted to buy your idea and sweep it under the carpet?
A. Sincerely, no this did not happen to me because we made quite a different policy than what others made. We did not ask for external funding. So I have put into this operation all my money and I did not want external financing for two reasons. One is to avoid that something like what you say would happen and secondly it was very risky because when you do something really new the risk that you meet an unsuccess is very high. So I wanted not to make American football with the bones of the others.
S: If I can interject here really quick you actually had an event in an earlier technology you worked on that would turn waste into energy and fuel and it was politicized and you ended up spending some time in jail. You were later exonerated completely but you have had experience with that and that is why you are playing smart now.
A: yes exactly. Yes this is a very good consideration. At this point being completely free you know I arrived... I said to myself I had to arrive not with a theory or with a toy on a table. I have to arrive with a product. In fact we will begin to earn money in October after the successful start up of the plant of one megawatt. Until that moment all the moment on the table has been and will be my money. The only money that has been risked is my money. This way I have cut all the voices about this guy is trying to make some trick, etc, etc. Any attempts to diminish the importance of the technology has been foiled. Because it is clear if somebody puts all his money in a thing if this is a trick he is just tricking himself. The rules are very clear here. Money will change hands only if the plant will work. No good work no money for anybody and a loss of money for me.
And I this approach has saved us from the risk that you say. Now all the people who are approaching us are approaching us on a positive attitude and we have extremely important contacts going on and we will... we base our contracts on the fact that the plants have to work. We earn if the plants work. I hope we will be able to defend these policies.
G: Are you beginning to get sales for the plants? Are you getting orders from companies that want this?
A: I am getting proposals for orders, but I am not accepting orders because before that I want to setup the plant that we will setup in Athens in October and that we are manufacturing right now while we are speaking. We are manufacturing it in Florida United States and after that we will accept orders. As I say we are going step by step basing our activity exclusively on the base of research and the contract we have with the Greeks are very clear. First test of the plant and then payment. Should the plant does not work properly I just get it back and all the money involve will have been only my money.
G: Lets hope you get your money back. It sounds like you have risked a lot of money to do this. How much as it cost if I can ask?
A. It has been a matter of millions and I can tell you very sincerely I have put in all the money I had.
G: So you must believe in this project Andrea
A. yes, I have sold you know my friends who knows me knows perfectly know that I have sold all of my former business which was a company that made bio production power plants. I have sold everything to finance this.
G: Lets hope it works and comes back to you many many ways.
A: I hope that it will be useful for mankind. Because you know I am doing this because I think it is something it is worth spending a life for.
S: Now Rossi aren't you licensing the technology at least provisionally right now?
A: At the moment the only license that we gave is to Greece and Balkans we will start the licensing policy after the start up of the plant which means after the end of October.
G: so it is coming along you are meeting your goal are you excited about this?
A: Yes, because basically my life is on the stakes.
G: I understand. How old are you? Can I ask?
A: Yes. Of course. I am 60.
G: That's still young isn't it?
A: Absolutely. I want to tell you this. One of the men which works in one of the most delicate phases of our manufacturing which is the production of powders and he works with very sophisticated apparatus we have built to prepare the powders. He is you can't believe it he is 96 years old. I think he is the best man in the world to do the job. He is 96 years old. I am very glad of it because it means I still have 36 years to work well.
G: Good for you. How is my Italian here. Grazi Tonto.
A: Perfect. Much better than my English.
G: Your English is pretty good yourself. Andrea thank you keep in touch with us.
A: thank you very much and thank you very much
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Show me the helium -- I want a giant airship that I can safely land my jet-pack on.
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where's the proof that fusion is occurring? Just looks like a fuel cell to me. I can do the same thing you know - get some hydrogen and put a spark in it.
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How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real - Alan Fletcher - Version 3.10, April 1, 2011
http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v310.php
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Why does the April 1 date concern me here?
How to Make and Detect a FAKE Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR - Alan Fletcher - Version 2, March 4, 2011
http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v2.php (http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v2.php)
How to Make and Detect a FAKE Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR - Alan Fletcher - Version 3, March 9, 2011
http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v3.php
How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real - Alan Fletcher - Version 3.09, March 30, 2011
http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v309.php
is not a fish in April, is the latest update.
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How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real - Alan Fletcher - Version 3.11, April 1, 2011
http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_v311.php
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It's been almost 800 years, it's about time they took me seriously!!!!!!11
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Perpetuum_mobile_villard_de_honnecourt.jpg)
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This is an experiment that can't be wrong.
If just works as expected,there is no problem, it works.
If it is just vaporware, well, it works also, because vapor can be used to move a turbine...:biggrin:
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Gigi seems to think it's real. He's only posting in this thread.
I'm also waiting october to see what happens.
I'm usually skeptical, but in this case I'm sure that something is going on.
I already discussed a lot about this matter and surely, if it's not fusion, there is something that is still unknown.
Also the original cold fusion is surely something more than a fake.
I remember well when Pons and Fleishmann announced it, and remember well that every laboratory from Italy to Cina to US to Japan announced a successful reproduction of the experiment, or an improvement over it. Collective hallucination ?
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I'm also waiting october to see what happens.
I'm usually skeptical, but in this case I'm sure that something is going on.
I already discussed a lot about this matter and surely, if it's not fusion, there is something that is still unknown.
Also the original cold fusion is surely something more than a fake.
I remember well when Pons and Fleishmann announced it, and remember well that every laboratory from Italy to Cina to US to Japan announced a successful reproduction of the experiment, or an improvement over it. Collective hallucination ?
Actually i'm pretty sure the point was that no one else could replicate it, and therefore it did not follow the scientific method.
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Swedish physicists on the E-cat: “It’s a nuclear reaction” - April 6, 2011
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3144827.ece
In a detailed report, two Swedish physicists exclude chemical reactions as the energy source in the Italian ‘energy catalyzer’. The two physicists recently supervised a new test of the device in Bologna, Italy.
“In some way a new kind of physics is taking place. It’s enigmatic, but probably no new laws of nature are involved. We believe it is possible to explain the process with known laws of nature,” said Hanno Essén, associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society.
Essén and Professor Emeritus at Uppsala University Sven Kullander, also chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ Energy Committee, both participated on 29 March as observers at a new trial in Bologna of the so-called ‘energy catalyzer’, which could be based on cold fusion, or LENR, Low Energy Nuclear Reaction...
The new trial was conducted in much the same way as the trial in January, and lasted for nearly six hours. According to observations by Kullander and Essén, a total energy of about 25 kWh was generated.
http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29. (http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29.)
“Any chemical process should be ruled out for producing 25 kWh from whatever is in a 50 cubic centimeter container. The only alternative explanation is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives rise to the measured energy production.”
The power output was estimated to about 4.4 kW. It’s barely half the power compared with the two previous documented experiments in January and February 2011, because the trial was made with a new and smaller version of the energy catalyzer.
The new trial was the first officially documented with the smaller version which, according to Rossi, is more stable.
“With the smaller version we avoid the power peaks that occurred at ignition and switching off,” Andrea Rossi told Ny Teknik.
He also stated that the smaller version will be used for the planned installation of about one megawatt for the pilot customer Defkalion Green Technologies in Greece.
According to Rossi, a total of 300 reactors connected in series and parallel, will be used in the installation. Originally 100 reactors of the version that delivered 10 kW of power during earlier trials, were supposedly planned for the one-megawatt installation. Rossi still expects the inauguration to take place in October 2011.
At the trial in Bologna, Kullander and Essén could investigate the energy catalyzer with the surrounding insulation and the lead shielding stripped away. The exterior design is described in their report.
The reactor itself, which is loaded with the nickel powder and secret catalysts pressurized with hydrogen, has an estimated volume of 50 cubic centimeters (3.2 cubic inches). The reactor is made of stainless steel.
A copper tube surrounds the steel reactor. The water to be heated flows between the steel and the copper. In operation, the construction is also surrounded by insulation and a lead shielding with a thickness of approximately two centimeters (0.8 inches).
Before starting, Kullander and Essén calibrated the water flow and estimated it at 6.5 kg per hour. The power required to heat the flowing water from 18 degrees and convert it completely into steam was calculated to 4.7 kW.
They also filled the reactor with hydrogen at a pressure of about 25 bars. The reactor was according to Rossi loaded with 50 grams of nickel powder.
As in previous trials the process was ‘ignited’ with an electrical resistance. Input power was 330 watts, of which about 30 watts were required to operate the electronics.
A phenomenon that Kullander and Essén noted was that the curve for the water temperature at the output showed a steady increase up to about 60 degrees centigrade, after which the increase escalated.
“The curve then became steeper, it clearly had a new derivative. At the same time there was no increase in power consumption, it rather decreased when it got warmer,” said Essén.
In their report they note that it took nine minutes to go from 20 to 60 degrees centigrade, which corresponds to the heating from the input electrical power. Going from 60 to 97.5 degrees centigrade, by contrast, just took four minutes.
Throughout the experiment Kullander and Essén had the opportunity to examine the equipment.
“We checked everything that could be checked, and we could walk around freely and have a look at most of the equipment,” said Essén.
“We looked specifically into the big control unit (with electronics) and it contains mostly rectifiers and passive components – there was nothing of interest in it,” said Kullander, which is in line of what Dr. Levi previously noted.
Kullander and Essén had their first contact with Rossi in mid February, at the time of a discussion of the physics in the energy catalyzer, organized by Ny Teknik. After getting answers from Rossi to several questions, they expressed a cautiously optimistic opinion about the technology.
At a first meeting with Rossi at the end of February they were given access to a sample of the pure nickel powder, intended for use in the energy catalyzer, and another sample of nickel powder which, according to Rossi, had been used in the reactor for 2.5 months.
Their analyses showed that the pure powder consists of essentially pure nickel, while the used powder contains several other substances, mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron.
“Provided that copper is not one of the additives used as catalyst, the copper isotopes 63 and 65 can only have been formed during the process. Their presence is therefore a proof that nuclear reactions took place in the process,” Kullander said (see further details below).
The meeting in February in turn led to their involvement in the new trial in Bologna.
“My belief that there is an energy development far beyond what one would expect has been strengthened significantly as I have had the opportunity to see the process for myself and perform measurements,” said Kullander.
“Everything that we’ve found so far fits together. There is nothing that seems to be strange. All people seem to be honest and competent,” Essén added.
In line of what they expressed during the discussion in February, they believe that the physics of the energy catalyzer may possibly be explained by a combination of atomic, molecular, nuclear and plasma physics. At the same time they are skeptical of detailed and hypothetical theories suggested at this stage, and stressed instead the need for more data.
They describe that Focardi and Levi have the same approach, and support their viewpoint.
Focardi, who has been working with Rossi during the development of the energy catalyzer, is Emeritus Professor at the University of Bologna, while Levi will now be responsible for researching the energy catalyzer at the Physics Department of Bologna University, commissioned by Rossi, who pays 500,000 Euro according to an agreement between his company Leonardo Corporation and the university.
Kullander and Essén are not involved in this project.
During their visit to Bologna they met with the Rector of the Bologna University, Professor Ivano Dionigi, and had a discussion with him, Rossi, Focardi, Levi and Bianchini on the project. According to Kullander and Levi, future collaborative research is possible.
ripster ...yes, I begin to believe it.
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Thanks for the update!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer)
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There's still no working principle here. It's claimed that the devices fuses hydrogen and nickel to produce copper, but that process is ruled out because the device does not appear to emit the gamma radiation that would be produced by that reaction.
And the patent application, like most of those for these sorts of woo-woo devices, doesn't actually describe how the device works, or how to make one. This is a problem because that's what a patent is - a description of an invention and how it works. For a patent to be valid, it should be sufficiently detailed for someone versed in the appropriate subjects to build and test the device or process.
@RiGS - is Gigi your sockpuppet?
In related news, would anyone be interested in purchasing my amazing mechnical Turk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turk)?
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@RiGS - is Gigi your sockpuppet?
That would be lame!
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I've found that most of RiGS' facts (i.e. opinions) lack evidence.
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That would be lame!
So that's a yes, then?
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Any chemical process should be ruled out for producing 25 kWh from whatever is in a 50 cubic centimeter container. The only alternative explanation is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives rise to the measured energy production.
How could you explain that?
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I haven't seen independent confirmation of that number, evidence that it was tested under controlled, scientific conditions, or that any competent person has examined the entirety of the device (the 50 cc "reactor" is not the only component.)
@RiGS - is Gigi your sockpuppet?
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The two physicists recently supervised a new test of the device in Bologna, Italy
Essén and Professor Emeritus at Uppsala University Sven Kullander, also chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ Energy Committee, both participated on 29 March as observers at a new trial in Bologna of the so-called ‘energy catalyzer’, which could be based on cold fusion, or LENR, Low Energy Nuclear Reaction...
At the trial in Bologna, Kullander and Essén could investigate the energy catalyzer with the surrounding insulation and the lead shielding stripped away. The exterior design is described in their report.
Throughout the experiment Kullander and Essén had the opportunity to examine the equipment.
“We checked everything that could be checked, and we could walk around freely and have a look at most of the equipment,” said Essén.
“We looked specifically into the big control unit (with electronics) and it contains mostly rectifiers and passive components – there was nothing of interest in it,” said Kullander, which is in line of what Dr. Levi previously noted.
No, I'm not connected to Gigi.
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“We checked everything that could be checked, and we could walk around freely and have a look at most of the equipment,” said Essén.
Why not all? If the device is patentable and he's submitted a patent request, as the inventor claims, then there is no fear in showing how it works. In fact, it's a requirement for the patent.
If the device works as claimed, he should have no difficulty publishing these results in an established, peer-reviewed, scientific journal or producing a patent application that actually describes how it works. He has done neither. What is he hiding?
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Why not all? If the device is patentable and he's submitted a patent request, as the inventor claims, then there is no fear in showing how it works. In fact, it's a requirement for the patent.
If the device works as claimed, he should have no difficulty publishing these results in an established, peer-reviewed, scientific journal or producing a patent application that actually describes how it works. He has done neither. What is he hiding?
Ask the same question to Mr Meucci (the inventor of the phone)...:rolleyes:
BTW, if this is not a joke (and if it's a joke is really well constructed), I think that the main task that Focardi has to do, is to stay alive until October, rather than being worried about the patent.
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I believed that Alexander Graham Bell is the inventor of the telephone.
Focardi?? The inventor of the Energy Catalyzer is Andrea Rossi.
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I believed that Alexander Graham Bell is the inventor of the telephone.
Yes this is exactly the problem.
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When you apply for a patent, you disclose how your invention works. That's how the patent system works. The bargain is that you trade your secrecy for the legal protection, and for a limited time, a legal monopoly on the product.
Not everyone makes that bargain. Coke keeps their secret recipe a secret. Many other companies rely on trade secrets instead of patents. But if their secret gets out, or somebody re-discovers their invention, or reverse-engineers it, they're SOL.
If you get a patent, then the workings of your device become public information. But you are able to profit because, for the duration of the patent, nobody can copy your invention without getting permission (a license) from you.
He seems to want to keep the workings of his device a secret while simultaneously gaining the protection of a patent. That's not how it works.
I have seen nothing to suggest that this is anything other than a run-of-the-mill investment con.
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Sergio Focardi: parla il padre della “fusione fredda (Ni-H)” - Pubblicato il 06.04.2011
http://translate.google.it/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.rcdc.it%2Farchives%2Fsergio-focardi-parla-il-padre-della-fusione-fredda-ni-h-75679%2F&sl=it&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
http://radio.rcdc.it/archives/sergio-focardi-parla-il-padre-della-fusione-fredda-ni-h-75679/
an interesting talk radio for people like me who speaks italian.
http://www.radio24.ilsole24ore.com/radio24_audio/110406-mrkilowatt.mp3
Preview the podcast service that will be broadcast tonight at 21 by Mr. Kilowatt heading on Radio 24 by Maurizio Melis, interviews with Giuseppe Levi
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From one of the earlier linked articles:
Both measurements show that the pure nickel powder contains mainly nickel, and the used powder is different in that several elements are present, mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron. The isotopic analysis through ICP-MS doesn’t show any deviation from the natural isotopic composition of nickel and copper.
(emphasis mine) This is evidence of fraud. The allegedly "used" powder contains isotopes of copper in the same ratio as copper found in nature. If the copper were really produced by this device, it would contain only specific isotopes created by the claimed nuclear reaction plus any impurities that were present in the original nickel.
The "used" sample is actually just a mixture of nickel and copper that Rossi prepared. It's not the product of his device. That's the only explanation that accounts for the isotope concentrations observed.
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When you apply for a patent, you disclose how your invention works. That's how the patent system works. The bargain is that you trade your secrecy for the legal protection, and for a limited time, a legal monopoly on the product.
Not everyone makes that bargain. Coke keeps their secret recipe a secret. Many other companies rely on trade secrets instead of patents. But if their secret gets out, or somebody re-discovers their invention, or reverse-engineers it, they're SOL.
If you get a patent, then the workings of your device become public information. But you are able to profit because, for the duration of the patent, nobody can copy your invention without getting permission (a license) from you.
He seems to want to keep the workings of his device a secret while simultaneously gaining the protection of a patent. That's not how it works.
I have seen nothing to suggest that this is anything other than a run-of-the-mill investment con.
Actually this is not entirely true.
You can patent different parts of the invention, and keep crucial parts a secret.
Companies are out there trying to steal the actual invention by altering the patent and constructing a relatively similar device.
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Actually this is not entirely true.
You can patent different parts of the invention, and keep crucial parts a secret.
Companies are out there trying to steal the actual invention by altering the patent and constructing a relatively similar device.
Still, when others get their hands over the catalyst and results it's soon over... Have to see how this will unfold...
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Is this going to solve the Greek Debt Crises?
Or help Berlusconi?
If it works I think will not help Berlusconi
If it works, someone will find quickly the need of exporting "freedom" also in Italy, and not just in Iraq, Afganistan or Libia :biggrin:
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It will be introduced first in Greece.
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Damn. Bunga bunga is kinda catchy.
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Professor Focardi said "Cold Fusion Ni-H" - April 5, 2011 RCdCweb TV shows - April 9, 2011
http://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2F22passi.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F04%2Fil-professor-focardi-spiega-la-fusione.html
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/04/il-professor-focardi-spiega-la-fusione.html
Sven Kullander's additional comments on Rossi's Energy Catalyzer
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg44471.html
Rossi energy catalyst - a big hoax or new physics? - April 9, 2011
http://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Faleklett.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F04%2F08%2Frossis-energikatalysator-%25E2%2580%2593-en-stor-bluff-eller-helt-ny-fysik%2F
http://aleklett.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/rossis-energikatalysator-%E2%80%93-en-stor-bluff-eller-helt-ny-fysik/
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Dr. Gene Ray, Cube Phenomenologist and THE WISEST HUMAN
http://www.timecube.com/
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Dr. Gene Ray, Cube Phenomenologist and THE WISEST HUMAN
http://www.timecube.com/
^^^ Long live timecube!
Only the four-cornered mind can truely understand the four-cornered nature of cold fusion.
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Yesterday at the Polytechnic University of Turin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytechnic_University_of_Turin) took place one experiment involving some piezo-nuclear reactions.
An engineer, friend of mine, was present. The "exotic" material involved was just the Luserna's stone (http://www.stonecontact.com/product/Granite/LUSERNA-STONE_7031.htm) a granite commonly available around the town where I live.
Well was discovered that this kind of stone, if compressed, emits neutrons because a nuclear transmutation take place (the iron becomes aluminum).
Afaik is a very young research and most of the process involved are still not well known, but the nuclear reaction is sure.
Maybe all of this is completely unrelated with the energy catalysts or maybe not, but demonstrates that we still have an huge amount of physics to learn and that something considered hilarious until few years ago is real, tough yet not completely understood.
You can read more about this experiment here
http://www.structuralintegrity.eu/pdf/esis/Documents/Newsletter/ESIS_newsletter_2010_IP001.pdf
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My father used to warn me to not touch the the granite in Kiev.
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It is well known that granite is radioactive.
No, it's not this kind of radioactivity I'm speaking about.
Some kind of stones can be naturally radioactive because can contain radium, thorium, uranium, in little quantities.
Is not the case here.
Here is the iron, which is not radioactive that is broken and transformed in aluminum that emits neutrons, and emits them just during a mechanical compression.
Doesn't mean that graveyards will become a power source any time soon.
Doesn't mean, but surely means that happens something of absolutely unsuspected by the classic physics.
And is enough to raise some questions.
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May raise questions, but hopefully not the dead.
Please don't mention your penis every two or three posts. :tongue:
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Why not use water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AonkgeeCUE)?
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Why not use water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AonkgeeCUE)?
Basically is the question that every fusion (hot or cold) involved researcher is trying to answer.
Here, I mean in the stone experiment, the nuclear reaction is fission, and there is the hypothesis about the so called cold fusion (and also the OP experiment) could be a fission reaction also.
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Iron has a much higher binding energy than aluminum, so fission of iron would be a net energy loss.
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Some kind of stones can be naturally radioactive because can contain radium, thorium, uranium, in little quantities.
Is not the case here.
Granite contains radioactive elements. That's the reason your basement contains radon.
Here is the iron, which is not radioactive that is broken and transformed in aluminum that emits neutrons, and emits them just during a mechanical compression.
This is just conjecture, even according to the authors of the paper.
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Iron has a much higher binding energy than aluminum, so fission of iron would be a net energy loss.
I think that, for now, the purpose of the experiment was not to demonstrate the feasibility of a reactor (like in the Rossi case) but demonstrating that something of completely unknown actually happen.
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Here's my Radon results.
Yes, my wife made me Radon my mancave. However although my son does have 6 fingers on his nonmousing hand he uses USB and with 6KRO he does fine.
You radon values are low enough, you still plug the cable of your beloved Xarmor to make it glowing...:smile:
Btw what you used to test your radon ? 3dmark 2006 ?:tongue:
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In other news, researchers at the University of Liverwurst have demonstrated the production of methane by combining pickles and ice cream in the human digestive tract.
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In other news, researchers at the University of Liverwurst have demonstrated the production of methane by combining pickles and ice cream in the human digestive tract.
Thanks for your contribution,seem that the idea was already tested in italy.
But the researchers obtained just vomit and not methane.
Likely the of the Italians is an obstacle for this kind of experiments...:biggrin:
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Has Italy invented anything of importance since the Pizza?
Do you mean other than things like the phone, the radio, the asynchronous electric motor, the very first personal computer and something like that ?
BTW Pizza was not a so bright invention we hat to discover the America to get the tomatoes :biggrin:
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Alexander Graham Bell, and America invented all that stuff.
be serious
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Tesla was demonstrating radio long before Marconi and beat Ferraris to the asynchronous electric motor; he was Serbian-American. The first microcomputer of significance was the Altair 8080, which was made by an American company.
I don't know why we should trust the word of Italian engineers at all...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Leaning_tower_of_pisa_2.jpg/300px-Leaning_tower_of_pisa_2.jpg)
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Tesla was born and raised in the good old Hungary.
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You know that on the Internet people can check these things... It was the Austrian empire at the time, but he was born and raised in what is now Croatia.
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This thread reminded me of this (http://xkcd.com/386/).
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You know that on the Internet people can check these things... It was the Austrian empire at the time, but he was born and raised in what is now Croatia.
LOL arguing with a Hungarian on this is pointless.
He was born on the territory of Hungarian Kingdom.
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Don't worry, I don't consider you representative of the Hungarian people, or the Huns even.
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Tesla was demonstrating radio long before Marconi and beat Ferraris to the asynchronous electric motor; he was Serbian-American.
Tesla was a great technician bot is not the inventor of the radio nor American
The first microcomputer of significance was the Altair 8080
The Olivetti Programma 101 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programma_101) was presented 10 years before the 8080 and was sold in 40000 units v.s. the 5000 altairs, so you should redefine your concept of "significance".
The French made Michral was also 3 years older than the Altair.
I don't know why we should trust the word of Italian engineers at all...
You should trust something that was 3 century old when your country was discovered (and is still on its legs) :cool:
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Don't worry, I don't consider you representative of the Hungarian people, or the Huns even.
Hahaha, I'm flattered.
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I listed Tesla as Serbian-American. He was a US citizen when he was doing his important work on Radio. We're a country of immigrants - if you move here and become a citizen, you're an American.
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Sounds like the American Dream.
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PiezoNucleare - TgR Leonardo - 15 April 2011
Anomalous nuclear reactions produced in a mechanical way. Experiment at the Politecnico di Torino. Towards a new form of energy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm9oXebsx-o
Today, 16 April 2011 at 21.30 in Italy there should be a specialer on low energy nuclear reactions "LENR" on channel rainews24. A replay on Sunday 17 at 16.00 and then it will be online. From the rumors on some blogs, I read that they are preparing special Rossi-Focardi. The coming months will be hot.
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My 2¢
From #1: "...Andrea Rossi submitted his "Energy Catalyzer" reactor, which burns hydrogen in a nickel catalyst..."
Key word here .... "burn". Am I missing something?
Just because it happens in a "reactor", doesn't mean it is has to be a nuclear reaction. "Burn" is a chemical reaction, that can sometimes be improved by the presence of a catalyst, often in a container called a (chemical) reactor.
Maybe the most significant type of "reactor" in this story is the internet itself. The type of reaction it contains?
... the over-reaction! :der:
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My 2¢
From #1: "...Andrea Rossi submitted his "Energy Catalyzer" reactor, which burns hydrogen in a nickel catalyst..."
Key word here .... "burn". Am I missing something?
Just because it happens in a "reactor", doesn't mean it is has to be a nuclear reaction. "Burn" is a chemical reaction:
Burn here is intended as a generic term.
When you say "burn" a DVD do you mean incinerate it ?
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Rainew24 - April 16, 2011
The "low energy nuclear reactions" are a rapidly expanding field of physics that could provide energy at minimal cost. They talk about it with Maurizio Torrealta Professor Yogendra Srivastava Department of Physics, University of Perugia, the researcher of Promete Srl Roberto Germano, Vice President of ISCMNS Francesco Celani, a professor of structural engineering at the Polytechnic of Turin Albert Carpiteri and the theoretical physicist Emilio Del Giudice.
Rainews24 "LENR" part1 (http://www.rainews24.rai.it/it/canale-tv.php?id=22918)
Rainews24 "LENR" part2 (http://www.rainews24.rai.it/it/canale-tv.php?id=22919)
low_energy_1.mp4 (http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/clips/2011/04/low_energy_1.mp4)
low_energy_2.mp4 (http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/clips/2011/04/low_energy_2.mp4)
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I haven't seen and heard so much Italian since "The Sopranos".
Damn that was a good show.
you've heard of Amerigo Vespucci, Italian explorer, navigator and cartographer gave his name to a continent, can you tell me which :)
try searching, maybe someone made a movie.
read more books, not watch only the television. not there is only Berlusconi and Mafia in Italy, our country has more than 2000 years of history, America as it has, all empires end up sooner or later... America is no exception.
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citta del capo radio metropolitana
Stremmenos: "la fusione fredda risolverà molti problemi dell'umanità" (http://radio.rcdc.it/archives/stremmenos-la-fusione-fredda-puo-risolvere-molti-problemi-dellumanita-77206/)
Stremmenos: "cold fusion will solve many problems of humanity" (http://translate.google.it/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.rcdc.it%2Farchives%2Fstremmenos-la-fusione-fredda-puo-risolvere-molti-problemi-dellumanita-77206%2F&sl=it&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)
Original + Google Italian-English translation
23 April, 2011
in a few days there should be a translation of the two audio files.
Part1 - Stremmenos_collab-con-Focardi-e-Rossi_sito.mp3 (http://radio.rcdc.it/wp-content/uploads/Stremmenos_collab-con-Focardi-e-Rossi_sito.mp3)
Part2 - Stremmenos_la-grecia_la-politica_la-scienza_sito.mp3 (http://radio.rcdc.it/wp-content/uploads/Stremmenos_la-grecia_la-politica_la-scienza_sito.mp3)
...the translation of the text.
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/04/aaa-cercansi-8-volontari.html
Professor Christos Stremmenos is the man who brought cold fusion in Greece, doing his best with the greek government to facilitate the startup of the factory that will manifacture "Energy Catalyzers", reactors invented and tested by Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi, to build a 1-megawatt powerplant.
Christos Stremmons came in Bologna from Greece in the '50s, city where he married and he worked at the University [of Bologna] until his retirement. His opposition to the colonels' military regime estabilished in the late '60s in his home country made him strongly relate with the anti-fascist scene, and in particular deeply linked him with the Pasok (the Greek socialist party) founder Andreas Papandreou and his son George Papandreou, current Greek prime minister. In the '80s he's also been Greek ambassador in Italy. Since the first experiments of Fleichmann and Pons he's been interested to cold fusion, trying to replicate the two chemists' experiments. These studies made him get in touch with Sergio Focardi, ending up working together with him on cold fusion research using, in particular, Nickel powder instead of Palladium.
In the first part of the interview, Stremmenos traces back the history of his scientific studies at the University of Bologna (in the "bunker" laboratory of the Physics Department) until the latest developments of Focardi's studies, occurred thanks to the innovations made by engineer Rossi: "we have many ideas - claims Stremmenos - and there still is a long way to go, but it's a road that will lead to incredible developments".
In the second part of the interview Professor Stremmenos focuses on recent events: it's actually he who pleads with the greek government to make an industrial plant possible. It's Defkalion Green Technology, business of which he is vice-chairman (on a "honorary basis", he says), which deals with that. Taking turns with hard attacks to the portion of the scientific community refusing to take into consideration the enthusiasm for the discovery of a new technology that he defines "revolutionary" and able to solve mankind's energy problems, Christos Stremmenos states: "it will be the market that will defeat skeptics, even if it's not a discovery that must serve capitalists, but mankind". He then notes that in October the first cold fusion power plant will be christened in Greece.
On March, greek economy newspaper "Express" reported":
2011-03-16: "A 200 million euro investment is about to arrive in Xanthi (a city in northern Greece) for the startup of an industrial unit for the production of devices for low cost thermal and electric energy generation. The greek business Defkalion Green Tecnologies, which will invest for the mass production and worldwide distribution of Hyperion devices, secured all rights of the scientific discovery of two italian scientists (with a holding company) who claim to have invented a cold Nickel and Hydrogen cold fusion reactor which generates an amount of heat vastly greater than what the reactor needs to start up. Defkalion Green Technologies has not only secured all rights for the economic exploitation of the two italian professors' invention, but also managed to made it an industrial product, in order to turn over not the energy situation of our country, but also at an international level. (http://www.express.gr/news/business/434458oz_20110316434458.php3).
22passi.blogspot.com - 25 April, 2011
Google Italian-English translation of the audio files - Interview with Christos Stremmenos (RCDC) (http://translate.google.it/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2F22passi.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F04%2Fintervista-christos-stremmenos-rcdc.html)
Coming soon will be available the English translation made by vain and Alex (with the contribution of Tizzie)
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You ever tried a mechanical keyboard? Because they're springy you feel like you're a energy catalyzer.
I wish you a good Easter, waiting for the white rabbit leads us to a chocolate egg with a surprise for after the holidays :)
perhaps I'll buy a new keyboard.
p.s. i'm much energetic but little catalytic ;)
ripster, this is a good show
Brian "i'm not the messiah" but only a unbeliever believed him (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc)
...shame that the crowd took him away.
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http://22passi.blogspot.com
finally moves to the RAI, the service was preparing Rainews24 on E-Cat of Rossi will air Tuesday, 3 May at 20:37.
Monday, 2 May 2011
will be broadcast on the channel Rainews (live streaming here (http://www.rainews24.it/it/canale-tv.php)) Thursday, 5 May at 20:35. Not Tuesday, 3 May
http://www.energeticambiente.it (http://www.energeticambiente.it/fusione-fredda-e-trasmutazioni-nucleari-bassa-energia/14728165-apparato-rossi-focardi-verita-o-bufala-38.html)
I read on the forum of energeticambiente, a user tia86 says he has contacted Mats Lewan of NyTeknik. Article in output within a week.
http://www.queryonline.it (http://www.queryonline.it/2011/04/15/reattore-e-cat-la-posizione-del-cicap/)
Reactor E-Cat: The position of CICAP. In the last comments, i read an interesting. Alberto warned that wednesday, 4 May at 16:00 will be held at the Physics Department of Pavia, classroom A102, a seminar by professor Focardi entitled "The return of cold fusion" ...a good opportunity to clarify some aspects of the story. I hope that anyone making an audio-video recording and puts everything on the network.
ripster, una tastiera meccanica per giocare sarà "bellissima" ma se devo scrivere mi accontento di una Logitech Media Keyboard 600 (http://www.google.it/search?q=logitech+600&hl=it&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=y4G4TbyTIIuTswaZu4XrAw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=908) :)
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Nuova intervista di Mr Kilowatt a Francesco Celani (http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/04/nuova-intervista-di-mr-kilowatt.html)
Google Italian-English translation (http://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2F22passi.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F04%2Fnuova-intervista-di-mr-kilowatt.html)
Thanks to Tizzie, the transcript of the interview to be broadcast on Radio 24, tonight at 21.05 during the episode of Mr. Kilowatt
Francesco Celani (INFN Frascati), interviewed by Maurizio Melis, explains the state of the art research Arata in Japan and is confident of the E-Cat Rossi.
22passi.blogspot.com - 29 April, 2011
http://www.radio24.ilsole24ore.com/player/player.php?filename=110429-mrkilowatt.mp3
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Fusione nucleare a freddo: i dubbi del fisico Antonio Zoccoli (http://blog.panorama.it/italia/2011/04/28/fusione-nucleare-a-freddo-i-dubbi-del-fisico-antonio-zoccoli/)
Google Italian-English translation (http://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.panorama.it%2Fitalia%2F2011%2F04%2F28%2Ffusione-nucleare-a-freddo-i-dubbi-del-fisico-antonio-zoccoli%2F)
Antonio Zoccoli, professor of General Physics and director of the section of Bologna of the National Institute of Nuclear Physics (INFN).
panorama.it - claudiadaconto - 28 April, 2011
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Continue the collaboration between 22passi.blogspot.com and the swedish magazine NyTeknik. This article reports on two new tests of the E-Cat held in Bologna on April 19 and April 28 last and was put online at the same time on the site of Ny Teknik, in English and Swedish, and Twenty-two steps of love and its in Italian. All technical data of the two tests are contained in two reports in pdf for download links inserted in the same article.
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3166552.ece
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/ny-teknik-ha-testato-il-catalizzatore.html
new confirmation finally are arrived :)
Report test of E-Cat 19 April 2011.pdf (http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3166567.ece/BINARY/Report+test+of+E-cat+19+April+2011.pdf)
Report test of E-Cat 28 April 2011.pdf (http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3166569.ece/BINARY/Report+test+of+E-cat+28+April+2011.pdf)
In the first test on April 19, the national Italian television channel RAI was present and its reportage will be broadcast on the channel RAI News (live streaming here (http://www.rainews24.it/it/canale-tv.php)) Thursday, May 5th at 20:35.
In the second test on April 28 only NyTeknik, the inventor Andrea Rossi, and a colleague of his were present.
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WARNING: RAINEWS PREVIEW!
In exceptional drafting Rainews, given the huge waiting, decided to spread on the Internet to preview the service on the Energy catalayzer, which will be broadcast Thursday, May 5 at 20:35 (Digital Terrestrial Television, Channel 508 on Sky).
http://www.rainews24.rai.it/it/canale-tv.php?id=23074
The magic of Mr. Rossi
History of the invention that promises to change the world - survey by Angelo Saso
In Greece there are those who are willing to bet EUR 200 million in the United States had already started the industrial production in November might already be on the market. The Energy Catalyzer, invented by the Italian Andrea Rossi, a prototype is still mysterious but promises a revolution in how we produce energy. The E-Cat nobody can explain how it works, but seems to turn a few grams of nickel, a bit 'of hydrogen and a "secret ingredient" in abundant kilowatt hour. Rossi is still awaiting the issuance of a patent, but positive tests and expert witnesses seem to confirm that "must be a process of the nuclear variety. " And then, as he tells Rainews the President of the energy of the Royal Academy of Sweden, Sven Kullander: "If it really works is the Nobel Prize. " A hoax? A collective hallucination? Or a radical innovation? The envoy Rainews Angelo Saso has gathered the voices of the actors and experts to uncover the background of this invention that promises to change the world. "
ripster, my English is at the limit of human comprehension, is due to the translation of google, it's his fault :)
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Gigi has only posted in this thread to spam links to articles about this reactor. Given that he's made zero contributions to the rest of the forum, shouldn't he be banned as an SEO spammer?
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Gigi has only posted in this thread to spam links to articles about this reactor. Given that he's made zero contributions to the rest of the forum, shouldn't he be banned as an SEO spammer?
Gigi isn't selling anything, (and here no one is running a power plant), so if this forum has an OT section and one wants to post just here what's the problem ?
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Gigi has only posted in this thread to spam links to articles about this reactor. Given that he's made zero contributions to the rest of the forum, shouldn't he be banned as an SEO spammer?
Any information/link about the Energy Catalyzer is welcome in this thread. Gigi, thanks for your contribution to this topic!
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Most forums have a zero tolerance policy toward SEO spam and Off Topic areas are usually reserved for contributing members of the forum to socialize or let off steam, not random spammers trying to promote confidence schemes or other nonsense. There are plenty of other forums on the Internet devoted to those sorts of topics.
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Most forums have zero tolerance policy toward thread crapping.
As I said earlier any related content is welcome in this thread.
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Alright then.
Does Rossi have any explanation for why his device emits no radiation? The nuclear reactions he's claiming would produce very large amounts of gamma rays and neutron radiation. 2cm of lead shielding would reduce the gamma radiation by about a factor of 1/4 (and would have very little effect on the neutrons), but it would still be in the "very lethal" range.
Also, can he explain why the copper and nickel his alleged "spent fuel" has the same isotope ratios as natural copper and nickel? The nuclear reactions he claims are occurring would not produce that result. Why are no radioactive isotopes of copper produced?
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Fwiffo, I haven't spent my life nor the last months following the evolution of this experiment.
But in general I think that *if* it works. Explaining it with the current knowledge is not the right way.
If it really happens is because something of absolutely unknown is going on.
When Volta made its first battery no one had idea about what went on.
Today we have the presumption to think that all is already discovered, all should be explained with the actual knowledge.
Is not true.
Maybe the energy catalyzer is just a well built joke, maybe not, and in the latter case, possibly we have to sudy it for decades before fully understand it.
The other experiment I mentioned, the piezonuclear effect, is not explainable by any known effect, but exist.
It was not conducted by an obscure sect of underground alchemists, but from researchers of Politecnico di Torino, which is more or less the Italian MIT.
So, how it works ? How is possible that a light element like iron could be transmuted like uranium or thorium ?
No one has a good idea, yet.
So, personally I adopt a wait and see approach. October is not too far...
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I hardly assume we know everything. There are lots of unknowns. We don't really know *why* gravity works, but it does, and we have very precise formulas which predict its effects.
There have been revolutionary breakthroughs in the past, but they've always incorporated existing knowledge and observation. Einstein's relativity was considered revolutionary, but it didn't overthrow Newton. It just refined it. Most of the time Newton and Einstein get the same answer. Most of the time people just use Newton's equations because they're simpler and get the same result. But in Einstein's time we knew they didn't work for certain situations. Newton predicted the all the movements of the planets, except for Mercury, which it got just a little bit wrong. Einstein's equations didn't make the Earth spin backwards; they just explained Mercury.
Nickel and hydrogen are common substances, and humans have been playing around with them for centuries. Over all that time, nobody has ever observed nickel transmuting into copper at low temperatures. We've been observing nuclear reactions for a pretty long time too, and they've always observed the standard model of nuclear physics, including the production of the predicted radiation, subatomic particles and isotopes. There are some some things that remain unknown or unexplained, but those things don't include fusion reactions which magically don't produce radiation.
Rossi's device has all the hallmarks of a fraud (and there have been lots of free-energy, cold fusion, LENR, etc. frauds over the years.) He claims there's a nuclear reaction, but doesn't provide any sort of cogent hypothesis for why one would be occurring, and all the evidence suggests that there is no such reaction going on. He seems to want very much to convince people that he has a working device, but seems to be working very hard to conceal any information that would let someone independently confirm his results.
There are also reasons to doubt Rossi's character. For instance, his supposed engineering degree comes from a diploma mill; not an actual university (source (http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/kensington-university)).
The piezonuclear thing is quite different. They're not claiming there is some sort of nuclear process that doesn't produce radiation or the expected isotopes. Quite the contrary - they're claiming they're producing exactly that. I happen to be a bit skeptical due to the lack of reproducibility, but at least they're trying to do science and subjecting their work to peer review.
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More than reasonable reply
but
The piezonuclear thing is quite different. They're not claiming there is some sort of nuclear process that doesn't produce radiation or the expected isotopes.
Yes is exactly, not what they claim, what they proofed. Just not nuclear fusion but more traditional fission.
One atom of iron (atomic number 26) is actually broken in two aluminum atoms (atomic number 13) and there is an easily verifiable (and verified) neutron emission.
Not different from the traditional nuclear reaction from uranium, plutonium, thorium and so on in a nuclear power plant (or atomic bomb)
What is not explained is how a so light element can be broken with so low energy.
Uranium is relatively easily broken because it's huge, its atomic number is 234,235 or 238 not 26
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Proof is much too strong a word. I don't like to use the word "proof" at all when it comes to science - leave proofs to the mathematicians. You can provide evidence in support of a hypothesis, and if your hypothesis is supported by the perponderance of available evidence, then it becomes a working theory.
I haven't looked into all the piezonuclear claims in detail (just read the one paper you linked), but there are some obvious shortcomings. First of all, their claim of fission of iron is pure speculation (they admit as much in their paper). They also didn't completely rule out other sources of neutrons. They're using granite, which contains a significant amount of radioisotopes, which will decay and emit neutrons now and then. Many tests will be required to be sure it's not just coincidental background spikes.
Even if they're really getting nuclear fission of some kind from this process, other reactions are much more likely. Iron has the highest binding energy of any nucleus, which is why it's the end product of massive stars and why it's relatively abundant. If it were easily fissioned into aluminum, we'd have a lot more aluminum and a lot less iron lying around.
If they really are producing some kind of nuclear reaction, other researchers will be able to reproduce the results, and so far, that hasn't happened.
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+1. We have plenty of Senior Members that have made zero contributions to the forum.
Damn, at OCN that includes the Moderators!
Hmm, so how many post of zero contribution is needed for Senior Membership?
I truly belive this once there is clear theoretical proof behind it, will take a while still...
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Proof is much too strong a word.
Ok, proof, maybe, is a too strong word but the neutron emission was tested with a very simple neutron revelator gel matrix (it made bubbles visible to the naked eye when hit by neutrons).
So no cryptic data interpretation was involved.
If they really are producing some kind of nuclear reaction, other researchers will be able to reproduce the results, and so far, that hasn't happened.
It's just a coincidence that I both know a nuclear engeneer that was present to the experiment (as guest, he is not involved) and, at the same time i live in one of the 3/4 little countries where this kind of granite (called gneis lamellare) is extracted.
This granite is unique in Italy and the world, although a lookalike material is extracted somewhere in cina (yes they have a bad copy even of some stones :) ).
Obviously is not a classified material, but if in the extraction zone almost any house is built or decorated with it, in the rest of italy (and in the rest of the world) it's available only by purpose, by request.
So the experiment could be tried with other similar materials, or planned with the Luserna's stone but not so quickly.
Other than that seem that the piezonuclear effect in general is studied not just in Italy but is often treated as classified and/or military research
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I truly belive this once there is clear theoretical proof behind it, will take a while still...
I truly believe if it *really* works, the theoretical explanation is often retrofitted.
Look at the tunnel diode for example, it works. The magnetron (the microwave oven's "engine" is based on a tunnel diode, for example), was invented in 1973 and, at the time, no one had a clear theoretical explanation about its working process. Later quantum mechanics was involved, but the whole quantum mechanics is still a debated argument, even today.
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The patent (http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=IT2008000532&DISPLAY=STATUS) is now online.
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The patent (http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=IT2008000532&DISPLAY=STATUS) is now online.
Great!
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No, it is in English.
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I resurrect this thread, as more news in English are starting to be available.
Looks like are good news...
http://nickelenergy.wordpress.com/
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[video=youtube;uX0vcU4iedQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX0vcU4iedQ&feature=player_embedded[/video]
This is ****ing hilarious!
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rotfl
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The funniest part:
Don't worry, you still have time to sell your shares in Exxon-Mobile...
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I resurrect this thread, as more news in English are starting to be available.
Looks like are good news...
http://nickelenergy.wordpress.com/
A propos this post (http://nickelenergy.wordpress.com/2011/04/25/rossi-cold-fusion-validated-by-swedish-skeptics-society/) in the above mentioned blog; Rossi's machine is NOT validated by the Swedish skeptict's society. Hanno Essén is a former chairman of the society, but his views in this matter are his personal opinions only. He has been heavily criticised by a majority of the society's members for his opinions and statements on this issue.
These two threads in the Society's forum might bring some clarification:
Cold fusion ready for production? (http://www.vof.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=14668)
Clarify that you're only speaking on your behalf Hanno! (http://www.vof.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=15248)
The threads are in swedish but Google translate could solve that for you.
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This topic deserves a bump.
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Any news on this? I was really looking forward to my free energy...